transplantbillsfan Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 If Allen were to win MVP at this point, we'd need to win out. But today made it pretty damn clear that Allen is the MVP for the Bills... so much so that he has been forced to carry a team on his back much of this year. And it's killing him. Please get OL and RB help in the offseason! Please allow Daboll to find a HC elsewhere! I think we're still making the playoffs... but if Allen were to win MVP now, I admit we need to win out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: I think we're still making the playoffs... but if Allen were to win MVP now, I admit we need to win out. We needed to win out before this game. He's toast now. Either Rodgers or Brady will win it. Brady should be the clear front runner and he'll win it barring some terrible collapse by the Bucs in which case it would be Rodgers to lose. And probably Murray after him even despite the 3 or 4 games missed. Didn't Brady win MVP the year he was suspended for four games? Murray could certainly get back in it if the Cardinals finish with the best records in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 It's basically a lock to be an NFC QB at this point. With Brady a very heavy favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Great enough performance to lose close. This team can’t finish and that includes Allen. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: We needed to win out before this game. He's toast now. Either Rodgers or Brady will win it. Brady should be the clear front runner and he'll win it barring some terrible collapse by the Bucs in which case it would be Rodgers to lose. And probably Murray after him even despite the 3 or 4 games missed. Didn't Brady win MVP the year he was suspended for four games? Murray could certainly get back in it if the Cardinals finish with the best records in the league. Brady is the frontrunner. Allen is still on his heels even with today's loss. We've established it's not given to the best player on the team with the best record. Murray won't get it because his team proved they could win without him in the multiple games he missed. It truly probably is down to Brady, Rodgers or Allen at this point. And Allen needs to win out. With this team, I'd never bet we win out. But Allen proved he's still in this conversation today. 5 hours ago, Gene1973 said: 6 losses now, this MVP talk is over. Doesn't matter that it's 6 losses. That's not how this works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: We've established it's not given to the best player on the team with the best record. No. But you need to be close. And look at what happened this week. Rodgers and Brady both won and Allen loss. Rodgers won throwing 4 TDs and Brady won over Allen. Allen isn't coming back from that. I'd expect his odds of winning to drop dramatically whenever it is they redo them. Murray can definitely still win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 55 minutes ago, FireChans said: Great enough performance to lose close. This team can’t finish and that includes Allen. I still don’t get how Allen giving us a chance to win and us losing a close one with so much going wrong around him is a knock against Allen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: No. But you need to be close. And look at what happened this week. Rodgers and Brady both won and Allen loss. Rodgers won throwing 4 TDs and Brady won over Allen. Allen isn't coming back from that. I'd expect his odds of winning to drop dramatically whenever it is they redo them. Murray can definitely still win it. Brady didn’t win over Allen…the qbs don’t play against each other like that. If the two qbs switched teams the josh Allen buccaneers would’ve obliterated us 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said: Brady didn’t win over Allen…the qbs don’t play against each other like that. If the two qbs switched teams the josh Allen buccaneers would’ve obliterated us Obviously. But in the MVP conversation that doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 55 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: No. But you need to be close. And look at what happened this week. Rodgers and Brady both won and Allen loss. Rodgers won throwing 4 TDs and Brady won over Allen. Allen isn't coming back from that. I'd expect his odds of winning to drop dramatically whenever it is they redo them. Murray can definitely still win it. Close? Brady and the Patriots were 14-2 in 2016 when Matt Ryan won MVP for the 11-5 Falcons. And there were 3 or 4 other teams also with better records. Allen isn't coming back from what? A Herculean performance on National TV? This isn't given out after week 14. But we all saw what happened this week, including Allen’s fantastic performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Close? Brady and the Patriots were 14-2 in 2016 when Matt Ryan won MVP for the 11-5 Falcons. And there were 3 or 4 other teams also with better records. Allen isn't coming back from what? A Herculean performance on National TV? This isn't given out after week 14. But we all saw what happened this week, including Allen’s fantastic performance. So 2016 was the year Brady missed 4 games. That would explain Ryan winning it at 11-5. But let’s remember best the Bills can do now is 11-6. There is no way he is passing both when both will be on better teams and have better numbers and one won the head to head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 7 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: Obviously. But in the MVP conversation that doesn't matter. I don’t think the head to head record of mvp candidates matters at all…Brady will likely win it but that won’t be the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said: I don’t think the head to head record of mvp candidates matters at all…Brady will likely win it but that won’t be the reason. At a minimum overall record factors largely into the MVP award. It’s rare that it goes to a quarterback not on one of the best teams. And when talking about a head to head it’s at minimum a two game difference since one team wins and one team loses. So for that reason alone it’s a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cisco2403 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 6 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: So 2016 was the year Brady missed 4 games. That would explain Ryan winning it at 11-5. But let’s remember best the Bills can do now is 11-6. There is no way he is passing both when both will be on better teams and have better numbers and one won the head to head. Josh is probably not winning it but if it were truly judged based upon importance to the team, I'm not sure there is someone who means more to their team than Josh. IMO, Josh is at a minimum a top 3 player in this league. The guy is unbelievable, especially with how terrible the O-line is. Watching that game yesterday, you have to be disgusted with the amount of time Brady had vs. what Josh was dealing with and Josh played better than Brady did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Yeh Brady is probably winning it and will be presented the award by an official…but Allen quite frankly is a better football player then just about anyone in the league right now and he certainly got a few votes after the monumental game he had yesterday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 14, 2021 Author Share Posted December 14, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 To me the MVP is the player who if you were to insert him on any other team would have the greatest impact in the teams performance. Mahomes in Buffalo? No Tyreek, No Kelce no thanks. Tom “Statue” Brady with zero line and no running game? No. Aaron Injured Rodgers? No. I can’t think of a single QB outside of Lamar Jackson who could make this inept Bills offense go. That said Allen is not playing at near 2020 MVP level. The clutch throw to Kroft vs the Rams seems forever ago. That said the lack of RZ is real and do in part to lack of a tall dominant target like a Mike Evans 6’5” or the rookie TE Kyle Pitts. You need OL talent and powerful speed rusher to score in the RZ via the rush. The Bills have none of that. You put Allen in Tampa which could have happened in 2018 this is a different outcome. I’d be willing to bet Allen would be in the MVP talk if he were on a better team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: 5 times actually if we take away the kneel downs in a couple of those games. He ran for 100 yards in 3 consecutive games his rookie year. That may have been a record. Not sure. 6 hours ago, Dr.Sack said: To me the MVP is the player who if you were to insert him on any other team would have the greatest impact in the teams performance. Mahomes in Buffalo? No Tyreek, No Kelce no thanks. Tom “Statue” Brady with zero line and no running game? No. Aaron Injured Rodgers? No. I can’t think of a single QB outside of Lamar Jackson who could make this inept Bills offense go. That said Allen is not playing at near 2020 MVP level. The clutch throw to Kroft vs the Rams seems forever ago. That said the lack of RZ is real and do in part to lack of a tall dominant target like a Mike Evans 6’5” or the rookie TE Kyle Pitts. You need OL talent and powerful speed rusher to score in the RZ via the rush. The Bills have none of that. You put Allen in Tampa which could have happened in 2018 this is a different outcome. I’d be willing to bet Allen would be in the MVP talk if he were on a better team. Rodgers could still be that guy. Even injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 15, 2021 Author Share Posted December 15, 2021 (edited) Edited December 15, 2021 by transplantbillsfan 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 I am still glad I went to that game despite being jobbed by the officials. Josh kept me interested and when he went full MVP mode it was probably the best individual performance I have seen at college or pro level live. The fact that Brady got closer to the MVP from that game and Josh further shows how bad the officiating was 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 Josh surpasses 40+ Tds and finishes with an 11-6 record it would be robbery for him not to win it. Josh is nearly 90% of the Bills offensive. I think that's the definition of MVP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 I couldn't care less about the hardware. I just want him to play like an MVP, and he is. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 12/13/2021 at 11:36 AM, FireChans said: Great enough performance to lose close. This team can’t finish and that includes Allen. Something is wrong with this team this year. Last year they won games when they had the ball on the final drive. This year not so much. We had the ball and in the red zone against Tampa, Titans, Patriots and Jaguars and we still lost. TDs on all those drives inside the redzone and we win those games. Josh Allen has to take some blame for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, ganesh said: Something is wrong with this team this year. Last year they won games when they had the ball on the final drive. This year not so much. We had the ball and in the red zone against Tampa, Titans, Patriots and Jaguars and we still lost. TDs on all those drives inside the redzone and we win those games. Josh Allen has to take some blame for that. The inability to run the ball inside the 20 is the biggest problem. When your only backfield threat inside the red zone is your QB you can pretty much run blitz to get the ball out of his hands and force other guys to make a play and in a bunch of those games they haven’t see Dawson Knox against the Pats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 16, 2021 Author Share Posted December 16, 2021 I also want to post this and direct everyone to minute 47 My only reason is that Chris Simms here breaks down a play that was a sack that I honestly thought was Allen’s fault. But just in slowing down and watching the play from behind, you can clearly see Spencer Brown simply didn't change his blocking assignment after Allen audibled. As I watched I admit to screaming at the TV to Allen asking how he could have missed that. He didn't. He trusted his protection. Interesting microcosm of the complexity of the whole blame game we always play. Also, every time he whiffs like that, Spencer Brown's new nickname is Esther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 Allen was the best player on the field on either team in that Bucs game and it wasn't particularly close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbite Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 8 hours ago, ganesh said: Something is wrong with this team this year. Last year they won games when they had the ball on the final drive. This year not so much. We had the ball and in the red zone against Tampa, Titans, Patriots and Jaguars and we still lost. TDs on all those drives inside the redzone and we win those games. Josh Allen has to take some blame for that. Play calling is the biggest issue. Daboll crumbles when he has to call plays inside the 20's - his offense relies on space and there isnt any down there. Sure, JA has missed some open guys but Daboll isnt putting his guys in positions to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Frostbite said: Play calling is the biggest issue. Daboll crumbles when he has to call plays inside the 20's - his offense relies on space and there isnt any down there. Sure, JA has missed some open guys but Daboll isnt putting his guys in positions to succeed. No idea why we don't run more slants in the red zone. Edited December 16, 2021 by Big Turk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Stare Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 29 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Allen was the best player on the field on either team in that Bucs game and it wasn't particularly close. I love Allen just as much as the next Bills fan and there is no question Allen had an amazing second half, but not close? Id say Devin White, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, and, yes, even Brady (as much as it pains me to say) had damn good games. White in particular seemed to be involved in just about every big defensive play for them. Allen is amazing, and the thought that we have him for the next decade + is SUPER exciting, but that Bucs roster is loaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSarcasm Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 16 minutes ago, Big Turk said: No idea why we don't run more slants in the red zone. This. If you want to be able to run in the end zone you've got to be able to throw in the middle of the endzone. This will/would create hesitant LBs when it comes to the run/play action 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 (edited) On 12/14/2021 at 3:53 AM, Dr.Sack said: To me the MVP is the player who if you were to insert him on any other team would have the greatest impact in the teams performance. Mahomes in Buffalo? No Tyreek, No Kelce no thanks. Tom “Statue” Brady with zero line and no running game? No. Aaron Injured Rodgers? No. I can’t think of a single QB outside of Lamar Jackson who could make this inept Bills offense go. That said Allen is not playing at near 2020 MVP level. The clutch throw to Kroft vs the Rams seems forever ago. That said the lack of RZ is real and do in part to lack of a tall dominant target like a Mike Evans 6’5” or the rookie TE Kyle Pitts. You need OL talent and powerful speed rusher to score in the RZ via the rush. The Bills have none of that. You put Allen in Tampa which could have happened in 2018 this is a different outcome. I’d be willing to bet Allen would be in the MVP talk if he were on a better team. Allen's stats compared to last year thru 13 games are nearly identical...in fact he is averaging a little under 5 yards more per game this year than he was last year. What stands out the most is how much more efficient he is running the ball this year...YPC is way up over last year. Edited December 16, 2021 by Big Turk 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Frostbite said: Play calling is the biggest issue. Daboll crumbles when he has to call plays inside the 20's - his offense relies on space and there isnt any down there. Sure, JA has missed some open guys but Daboll isnt putting his guys in positions to succeed. Absolutely. His running schemes inside the redzone is terrible. We always go backwards. 1st and goal is now 2nd and goal from the 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 On 12/16/2021 at 1:38 AM, transplantbillsfan said: Also, every time he whiffs like that, Spencer Brown's new nickname is Esther he played like Esther in the first half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 19, 2021 Author Share Posted December 19, 2021 The best development to me today is a relevant running game with Singletary. The 2nd best development is the continuing development of Gabriel Davis. We still needed heroics from Allen today, but he didn't quite need to carry the team like normal. The reality here for doubters is that if we beat the Patriots next week and Allen plays really well, he's probably in a very tight 2 or 3 way race for the MVP to finish the season. But obviously all of us would prefer SB MVP over regular season MVP... so let's hope this team just found a little more identity running the football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: I think that should be called a 35 yard laser beam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Losing effort?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Diggs also joins Stevie Johnson for consecutive 1000 yards receiving season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Rankings updated: Rodgers Taylor Allen Brady Kupp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 26 minutes ago, Doc said: Diggs also joins Stevie Johnson for consecutive 1000 yards receiving season. SJ13 had 3 consecutive seasons....not bad for a 7th round pick playing with JAG QB's 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 3 hours ago, BringBackFergy said: Losing effort?? My bad. It's an ongoing thread and I was more focused on calculating updated stats than the preface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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