10/18/21 Gameday Bills @ Titans Postgame thread

[Logic]

17 minutes ago, x-BillzeBubba said:

Fix the redzone O, we win that game easy

Reasonable thing to say.

On the other hand, the offense still scored 31 points, and the defense couldn't stop a nosebleed.

Hard to put the entire loss on the offense's red zone shortcomings.

[Abill in Denver]

12 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Wrong.  Josh played his balls off and the defense let the team down.

agree 100% JA was the best player on the field AGAIN tonight 

[Billever76]

12 hours ago, Playoffs? said:

Bills didn’t even take a sec to look at that one… nor Beasley’s (what I thought was a) touchdown. 

 Beasley ABSOLUTELY had the TD

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

31 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

This.

 

I was ok with how the middle of the dline played for the most part.

 

Without more early scoring from the offense we could not "cheat" towards leaving the run to our front 4 on 3rd downs and playing the pass/doubling Brown.

 

We were too susceptible to play action in the second half which is exactly the Titan's game with Henry.

 

Us older fans with some grey in our hair remember how a KC team was built around their Nigerian Nightmare RB Christian Okoye. A bruising runner whose style reminds me of Henry.

 

He and Bills MLB Shane Conlan had some epic collisions.

 

The one drawback to building your team around one player though is the drop off when they get dinged. RBs take a lot of hits - realistically the Titan's offense (as it is built today) likely has a small window to win it all.

 

Tennessee has no one on their bench that defenses will scheme for like Henry.

 

 

 

 

Agree. Titans as well as using play action or fake handoffs to have the d bite bad on it (cause of Henry). Early scoring pretty much does that. But Titans might still run the ball they know still lots of time left in a way.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[WideNine]

29 minutes ago, Logic said:

A few thoughts:

- There is blame to go around for this loss. It's reasonable to say that the offense should have scored more TDs and less FGs, or that Josh failed to see open checkdown options a time or two. It's also reasonable to say that when your offense scores 31 points, you should win the game. The defense couldn't stop a nosebleed the entire second half, so they certainly deserve a big share of the blame, too.

- Even with all that the offense and defense could have done better, the Bills still drove the ball down the field at the end and were six inches away from a 1st and goal with 20 seconds left. 

- I can't help but wonder if Knox going out with injury ultimately cost the Bills the game. On the 4th quarter drive where Allen failed to throw to the wide open Tommy Sweeney in the flat and the Bills ultimately wound up punting...I just wonder if things would have been different had Knox been in the game. No sense in wasting too much time wondering, though. What happened, happened.

- Credit where credit is due: That was a gutsy, impressive win by an undermanned Titans squad that had faced a couple devastating on-field injuries to key players. Vrable's cute little punt return lateral troll attempt was lame, and I'm glad that it didn't work. Other than that, I can only tip my cap to the Titans for going blow for blow with the Bills, digging deep, and finding a way to pull out the win. 

- I'm with McDermott 100 times out of 100 on that decision to go for it on 4th. Analytics and common sense both tell me it was the right call. I also have no problem with the QB sneak being the playcall there. Josh gets those better than 90% of the time. It wasn't the Xs and Os that cost the Bills this game, it was the Willies and Joes. Execution wasn't up to snuff, period.

- It's been said by others, I'm sure, but it sure does feel to me like the Bills sort of needed this loss. To lose the way they lost, right before the bye week (just like last year)...it seems like this was the type of adversity, the type of rallying cry, the type of "re-set and re-focus" loss that this Bills roster often thrive on. Instead of spending the next two weeks hearing how they're Super Bowl favorites, they'll spend the next two weeks with a sick feeling in their stomach, knowing that execution cost them a winnable game.

 

You hate to say they needed a loss, but it would have been easier for players to gloss over the areas of poor execution in this game had they managed to pull out a win at the end.

 

I think it is just human nature to want to move on when things work out in the end even though you were screwing up and crapping the bed along the way.

 

If last year's hail Murray is any indication, the pain and humility of this loss should keep them motivated and laser-focused on what improvements need to be made over their bye week.

 

That goes for the coaching staff too, though some time away will be good for Dabs.

 

 

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

Can someone with offensive line knowledge start a "Morse Report"?  

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Get them off the field on third down and we put a 40 burger on them and walk-away with an easy win.  After the 1st QTR they go TD, FG, TD, Half, TD, FG, TD in consecutive drives!

Edited October 20, 2021 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

I now officially have a least favorite number and it's 21.8

 

Give me the SNF NBC broadcast every time over the MNF crew, call Allen 'Tannehill' one more time....

[Chicken Boo]

☝🏾 At that moment I had ZERO doubt the Bills would lose.

[atlbillsfan1975]

51 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Can someone with offensive line knowledge start a "Morse Report"?  

Joe B was glowing about Morse in his podcast from the Monday after the Chiefs win. Morse was responsible for the one early sack last night. He needed to stay engaged with lineman because Feliciano was working with another one. 
Morse is very solid and is a better pass blocker than run blocker. Morse does well in space walking off but struggles moving interior d tackles. Besides Dawkins, Morse is the best lineman and then it’s a drop off. Brown will be very good and should be a stalwart on the line for 10 years.  Both guard spots are average at best. But this is what happens, you can’t have all pro’s everywhere and unfortunately Ford looks like a bust. 
This was a great loss from the standpoint that the staff and players will evaluate everything just a bit more critically than had the Bills blown out Tenn. Oline needs to play more physical when needed. I know Spencer Brown has that mentality and the physical talent to back it up. Everyone else? Not sure. We have seen it in spurts, needs to come together more consistently. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[WideNine]

28 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

It seemed clear to me where the ball was when Allen's elbow hit the ground - was not a call I liked, but it was the right call. Like so many plays and decisions that fell just a tad short last night.

 

At least the NFL and networks know that the Bills will usually give them one hell of an entertaining prime time game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Dude, it all starts up front.  If a QB has time to stand in, he has time to scan the field and see receivers.  If he's running full tilt his vision is limited. Can you reasonably think Josh Allen had time to scan the field and see receivers last night?

 

Also, 31 points IS a TON.  The problem wasn't that we didn't put up a ton of points, the problem is that our defense allowed the Titans to put up a ton-plus.  If we allow the opponent 34 points every week, we won't win many games.

And don't forget that the defenses inability to get the Titan's off the field probably cost the O another 2 possessions.

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

11 hours ago, mannc said:

 

Can't argue with this, but as I said in the gameday thread, Josh was a bit off last night.  On a lot of his throws, the ball was not coming out of his hand clean.  I have no explanation for it, but I've seen that happen to him before. 

Maybe he was off due to their D and our OL being unable to fully handle them. But this was a similar situation to the Steelers game with the difference being a far better performance from Allen this time around. That is improvement and progress. Not every QB, including Allen, is going to get 3 seconds to scan the field from the pocket, in every game. Allen did the best he could. 31 points is good enough against an aggressive D. But our own D continually allowed scoring drive after scoring drive in the second half. Even after the Titans lost a key piece on their OL in Lewan. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Fan in Chicago

[Apocalypse Nuts]

11 hours ago, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

I now officially have a least favorite number and it's 21.8

 

Give me the SNF NBC broadcast every time over the MNF crew, call Allen 'Tannehill' one more time....

The Monday  night crew must have eaten a little too much Nashville hot chicken for dinner. That stuff is HOT!!!  Maybe indulged in a bit of Tennessee bourbon as well?  
 

Must be some reason for calling him Tannehill multiple times.  Not as bad as Brady but still insulting to us Bills fans.

[muppy]

I wasn't sure where to post this but I thought you all might like it :-)))

 

[Chandler#81]

[Figster]

This may have been posted already. Is this more of a mistake by Allen?

[BuffaloBillyG]

10 minutes ago, Figster said:

This may have been posted already. Is this more of a mistake by Allen?

If Dawkins doesn't let Simmons eat his lunch and dance with his woman on that play Allen makes it even if he slips.

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

If Dawkins doesn't let Simmons eat his lunch and dance with his woman on that play Allen makes it even if he slips.

It still looks like Allen just ducked his head down and blindly tried to dive forward vs seeing where his Oline had given him enough push to get the 1st down.

 

I'm not going to say Josh Allen played poorly. On the other hand I will say Allen was not at the top of his game when we needed him to be IMO.

[BuffaloBillyG]

24 minutes ago, Figster said:

It still looks like Allen just ducked his head down and blindly tried to dive forward vs seeing where his Oline had given him enough push to get the 1st down.

 

I'm not going to say Josh Allen played poorly. On the other hand I will say Allen was not at the top of his game when we needed him to be IMO.

That's kind of the play. You literally get a fraction of a second to move forward. Any longer and typically you have LBers flying to the play. Those pushes and holes close quickly atound the goal line 

 

See, he doesn't get the benefit of taking his time and watching on a slow motion replay from his couch. These plays have to happen fast. Dawkins (and Feliciano) failed miserably to get the push the play called for. Picking that side is not on Allen...it's squarely on Simmons wanted to make the stop more than Dawkins wanted to stop him from doing it.

[Figster]

1 minute ago, No Place To Hyde said:

That's kind of the play. You literally get a fraction of a second to move forward. Any longer and typically you have LBers flying to the play. Those pushes and holes close quickly atound the goal line 

 

See, he doesn't get the benefit of taking his time and watching on a slow motion replay from his couch. These plays have to happen fast. Dawkins (and Feliciano) failed miserably to get the push the play called for. Picking that side is not on Allen...it's squarely on Simmons wanted to make the stop more than Dawkins wanted to stop him from doing it.

Give the ball to a RB then who is more accustomed to hitting the hole made available fast.

 

I understand where your coming from though, it was bang , bang,

 

Game over...

[WideNine]

42 minutes ago, Figster said:

It still looks like Allen just ducked his head down and blindly tried to dive forward vs seeing where his Oline had given him enough push to get the 1st down.

 

I'm not going to say Josh Allen played poorly. On the other hand I will say Allen was not at the top of his game when we needed him to be IMO.

 

It was a poor call IMO.

 

I think it was the right decision to go for it, but did not like the sneak call considering our OL got stuffed on a prior sneak and they were losing the war in the trenches.

 

There is a lot of factors for coaches to process in a short span of time with emotions running high and far easier for us to disect those decisions later.

 

I like that McD said he trusts his players. Coaches need that connection and player loyalty, but at the same time he mentioned in his presser that part of his decision to go for it rather than tie it up was that his defense was not getting it done.... I agree - they weren't. 

 

So....trust only goes so far as coaches have to evaluate in-game performance and matchups week to week and I would not have been optimistic about our OL getting it done.

 

Perhaps he thought that #17 could miracle something where blocking fell short... that I can get.

 

In more positive news the Bills record streak of leading at the half remains intact. Borrowed this excerpt from a site:

 

"The Bills (4-2) extended their NFL record of leading at halftime to 15 consecutive games. But their defense, which came in allowing a league-best 12.8 points a game, gave up a season high in points.

 

Allen finished with 353 yards and three TDs. His third was a 1-yarder to Tommy Sweeney in the final minute of the third quarter, and Allen caught a pass from tight end Dawson Knox for the 2-point conversion and a 31-24 lead.

 

With his 29-yard TD pass to a wide-open Cole Beasley just before halftime, Allen passed Aaron Rodgers with 108 combined TDs in his 49th start. Rodgers had 107 TDs for what had been the most by a quarterback in his first 50 starts since the NFL merger."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by WideNine

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

49 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

If Dawkins doesn't let Simmons eat his lunch and dance with his woman on that play Allen makes it even if he slips.

I have never seen anyone can blown up off a sneak that bad ever. Even if Dawkins holds his ground a little, then Allen might have a chance.

[Chandler#81]

47 minutes ago, Figster said:

It still looks like Allen just ducked his head down and blindly tried to dive forward vs seeing where his Oline had given him enough push to get the 1st down.

 

I'm not going to say Josh Allen played poorly. On the other hand I will say Allen was not at the top of his game when we needed him to be IMO.

Of course he did. He’s done it 99 times, successful all but 1. Whazzamatterwichoo?

Josh isn’t changing just for you. I suggest finding another team to root on for the next 15 years.

 

Your mental health is at stake.

[Figster]

21 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

It was a poor call IMO.

 

I think it was the right decision to go for it, but did not like the sneak call considering our OL got stuffed on a prior sneak and they were losing the war in the trenches.

 

There is a lot of factors for coaches to process in a short span of time with emotions running high and far easier for us to disect those decisions later.

 

I like that McD said he trusts his players. Coaches need that connection and player loyalty, but at the same time he mentioned in his presser that part of his decision to go for it rather than tie it up was that his defense was not getting it done.... I agree - they weren't. 

 

So....trust only goes so far as coaches have to evaluate in-game performance and matchups week to week and I would not have been optimistic about our OL getting it done.

 

Perhaps he thought that #17 could miracle something where blocking fell short... that I can get.

 

In more positive news the Bills record streak of leading at the half remains intact. Borrowed this excerpt from a site:

 

"The Bills (4-2) extended their NFL record of leading at halftime to 15 consecutive games. But their defense, which came in allowing a league-best 12.8 points a game, gave up a season high in points.

 

Allen finished with 353 yards and three TDs. His third was a 1-yarder to Tommy Sweeney in the final minute of the third quarter, and Allen caught a pass from tight end Dawson Knox for the 2-point conversion and a 31-24 lead.

 

With his 29-yard TD pass to a wide-open Cole Beasley just before halftime, Allen passed Aaron Rodgers with 108 combined TDs in his 49th start. Rodgers had 107 TDs for what had been the most by a quarterback in his first 50 starts since the NFL merger."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It hurt, but I'm ok with the loss. (Liked going for it on 4th) I think Buffalo learned valuable lessons about the Titans and how losing the battle in the trenches needs to help dictate the play call. 

 

The Buffalo Bills and Josh Allen will continue to improve in the process...

 

Nice posting...

Edited October 20, 2021 by Figster

[Figster]

21 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Of course he did. He’s done it 99 times, successful all but 1. Whazzamatterwichoo?

Josh isn’t changing just for you. I suggest finding another team to root on for the next 15 years.

 

Your mental health is at stake.

I suggest you go back and read Haps post in Virgils thread.

 

So getting knocked off the line of scrimmage throughout the game means nothing.

 

Awesome...

 

Here let me help

 

Again, this goes to my point - if you don't like the Baysian probability thing, call it macro-probability (overall success against any team we've played) vs micro-probability (probability of success given in-game observations against this specific opponent in this game).

 

IMHO the overall analytics need to be modified to account for new in-game information of how the OL is performing against this team on this day.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Figster

[YoloinOhio]

 

[njbuff]

Let's face it, the NFL screwed the Bills by scheduling them in back to back prime time road games against hated rivals.

 

It's almost like the NFL wanted to punish the Bills for the Titans COVID crap last year.

 

Go figure.

[Figster]

19 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Let's face it, the NFL screwed the Bills by scheduling them in back to back prime time road games against hated rivals.

 

It's almost like the NFL wanted to punish the Bills for the Titans COVID crap last year.

 

Go figure.

thought the same thing...

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

49 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Let's face it, the NFL screwed the Bills by scheduling them in back to back prime time road games against hated rivals.

 

It's almost like the NFL wanted to punish the Bills for the Titans COVID crap last year.

 

Go figure.

I think it is just a product of our success. You see a lot of the good teams every year playing back to back prime time games against top tier opponents. That’s what NFL fans want to see. 

[Figster]

3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I think it is just a product of our success. You see a lot of the good teams every year playing back to back prime time games against top tier opponents. That’s what NFL fans want to see. 

So its all our fault then,

 

Hate it when that happens...

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Yeah the Fins are going to feel the wrath I believe....Even more so than they would have on the regular

[RiotAct]

5 hours ago, njbuff said:

Let's face it, the NFL screwed the Bills by scheduling them in back to back prime time road games against hated rivals.

 

It's almost like the NFL wanted to punish the Bills for the Titans COVID crap last year.

 

Go figure.

cmon… that’s sone conspiracy-theory level stuff right there

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Lost in the shuffle, but didn’t Haack almost get another punt blocked against the Titans? 

[Solomon Grundy]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

“Why’d you Josh Norman me man?”

[WideNine]

Going to be a long 2 weeks, but thought perhaps we could pass the time taking a more forensic look at the game and what things we could do better in the red zone.

 

I know fans get a bit grumpy during these kinds of breaks after our team loses, but feel free to critique or provide alternate analysis or better play options. I am just going to do one and see how it goes. If I get skewered, I will just wait out the days till our next game.

 

A recurring theme throughout the game was Allen not looking for receivers short of the sticks when he is scrambling. He hits short passes that are designed to be quick hitters off play action and such, but he still has a penchant to look deep-to-shallow, rather than shallow-to-deep when scrambling facing a 2-deep zone.

 

When faced with 2-deep zones he needs to retrain his mind and understand that just about every receiver the Bills have can take a short pass and turn it upfield to gain the 1st down needed. He needs to know where all those options are each time he takes off and be willing to use them. I think because he is able to overcome this so often with super-human efforts it tends to be overlooked as a weakness in his game.

 

He is already a great QB, but if he gets this one thing down the sky is the limit.

 

 

1st Red Zone opportunity that did not work out.

 

• 2nd and 6 in the red zone and we bring out Moss - the Titans play run all the way with 8 in the box. Knox pulls to the left and badly misses his backside block, but it is not much of a factor as Moss hits his hole and is left facing two defenders with no blockers and still manages to gain 3 yards. Mongo gets a face full of hand that is pretty blatant, but no call - not a factor in the play and as long as they let that go both ways I am fine with the trench warfare.
• 3rd and 3 - 12 personnel 2x1 set with Knox on the line on the left along with Sanders and Diggs split out. Beasley is split out wide on the right.
• Allen initially looks to Beasley, but I don't think that was where the play intends to go. Play is a rub route with Knox releasing inside out and Sanders to provide the rub, but there were issues.
• Sanders drives his defender too deep and allows the defender covering Knox to easily stay with him. If Knox bends his route earlier rather than driving and breaking sharply out he could have created more space too with the rub traffic.
• Also I am not sure if this is by design, but Diggs slows down at the marker when I think it would have worked better if he drove to the back corner of the end zone. TN had no one behind these defenders and it would have cleared out the area or left Diggs alone if his defender comes up on Knox.
• I am not sure how to get image files smaller, but basically Josh is locked onto Knox, but with the tight coverage ends up holding onto the ball, scrambling, then "dirting" it to avoid a sack.
• Not a bad play, but with some tweaks and better execution this goes for at least a 1st or maybe a TD.

Edited October 22, 2021 by WideNine

[Bronxbomber21]

On 10/18/2021 at 11:40 PM, bigduke6 said:

did they look like the #1 Defense tonight?   

They switched the d with the players from 2019

[ganesh]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:04 AM, Kangaxx said:

D line lost us the game. No sacks.

Tannehill was the highest sacked QB in the NFL.....he was not touched for 60 minutes.