Bills 43, WFT 21 Game Balls!

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

The entire team.

 

This was a game where the Bills won by over 3 TD's and even then the game didn't feel as close as the score. When you have that type of game it generally takes the entire team clicking on all cylinders. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

Did you see some of the incredibly athletic plays that Heinecke made to avoid sacks? The D line forced a lot of hurries and poor passes, regardless. 

The d-line’s stuff on the 4th down sneak was worth the price of admission.

[TFBillsfan]

Really only two things that didn’t go well today.

 

73 yard TD screen for Gibson

McKenzie failure to catch the KO

 

Otherwise just an all around SOLID performance from the coaching to the players.

 

At some point this season, really would like to notice Hughes making an impact at DE though. And that’s two special team blunders in two out of three games now. Gotta tighten that up.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

Really only two things that didn’t go well today.

 

73 yard TD screen for Gibson

McKenzie failure to catch the KO

 

Otherwise just an all around SOLID performance from the coaching to the players.

 

At some point this season, really would like to notice Hughes making an impact at DE though. And that’s two special team blunders in two out of three games now. Gotta tighten that up.

Agree. I will give them the Gibson play. The McKenzie KO was just a dumb mistake. 

[MJS]

3 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Lol are you talking about star pushing Heneicki out of bounds for a half yard loss?

I'm talking about the stat sheet. The defense was credited with a sack. Is that a problem?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

16 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

Really only two things that didn’t go well today.

 

73 yard TD screen for Gibson

McKenzie failure to catch the KO

 

Otherwise just an all around SOLID performance from the coaching to the players.

 

At some point this season, really would like to notice Hughes making an impact at DE though. And that’s two special team blunders in two out of three games now. Gotta tighten that up.

That failed catch was as much on the up man ( I think it was Gilliam) as it was on McKenzie.  A kick that short the up man needs to make the catch put two hands around the ball and run forward.  

[BillsFan130]

14 minutes ago, MJS said:

I'm talking about the stat sheet. The defense was credited with a sack. Is that a problem?

Massive problem!

[JoPoy88]

Sanders Moss Milano.

[CLTbills]

Milano. He has been unbelievable. He very well may be the best LB in the league right now.

[billsfan89]

Just an all around great game. Back to Back good to great games from this team after a disappointing week one loss (granted a close loss to an at least decent team) and outside of a bad Special Teams play and one big play given up by the defense the team really just dominated wire to wire. The team even showed resiliency after being up 21-0 they gave up a big play on defense and a bad turnover and TD on a short field. They then proceeded to pad the lead back up to two possessions with a pair of field goals before slamming the door with a big second half. 

[RyanC883]

7 hours ago, jamiezzz said:

I need a Milano Jersey.  Kid is a beast.

NFL DPOY at this rate. 

[BillsFan692]

Offensive Game Ball goes to JA17 he was a beast today back to his old form!

 

Defensive Game Ball goes to Matt Milano who is definitely the best LB on our team.  Ill never get sick of watching him demolish opposing QBs. I swear he hit heincke so hard he gonna be feeling it for weeks.

 

Special teams sucked pretty bad again but whats new really

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I thought Star had another nice outing today.

I know he's fodder for good jokes right now, but he's looked very, very good in his first two games so far.

 

He has been the most underrated player on defense over the past two weeks. Last year we were constantly gashed with run plays up the middle. Star comes back, lo and behold that weakness is gone. The numerous posters on here that spent the offseason calling him fat and lazy have been proven wrong.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

He has been the most underrated player on defense over the past two weeks. Last year we were constantly gashed with run plays up the middle. Star comes back, lo and behold that weakness is gone. The numerous posters on here that spent the offseason calling him fat and lazy have been proven wrong.

 

Star has been excellent. Yesterday was one of his best games as a Bill. The year off seems to have done him good he looks faster. 

[TBBills]

Zack Moss

13 Carries 60 yards 4.6 Average, 3 Catches 31 Yards 10.3 Average 1 TD

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Zack Moss

13 Carries 60 yards 4.6 Average, 3 Catches 31 Yards 10.3 Average 1 TD

 

Moss was good yesterday. I said it in the gameday thread but through 3 games they have definitely improved the run game on last year. It isn't great, but it is better. It looks to me as though they might have slimmed down the running plays in the playbook. I feel like we are seeing the same runs multiple times but they are being better executed. If so I think that is a solid move. A team that might only call around 20 conventional running back runs per game doesn't need 25 different running plays in the playbook. Looks like they have simplified and focused on execution. 

[Jumpsuit Jim]

13 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Would you guys rate this a top 5 performance for Allen?

 

I have Seattle, at Denver, MNF NE, at Miami…all 2020 as his best.

His game against San Francisco last year was a thing of beauty. 

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Jumpsuit Jim said:

His game against San Francisco last year was a thing of beauty. 

 

yea that was defo top 5 for me. 

[Jerome007]

Like the Fins game, so many to give. My top beast against the Fish was Milano. This week it's... Daboll. 

[Motorin']

8 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

Offensive Game Ball goes to JA17 he was a beast today back to his old form!

 

Defensive Game Ball goes to Matt Milano who is definitely the best LB on our team.  Ill never get sick of watching him demolish opposing QBs. I swear he hit heincke so hard he gonna be feeling it for weeks.

 

Special teams sucked pretty bad again but whats new really

 

His footwork in the pocket seemed incredible yesterday. Whereas it seemed sloppy at times in the first two games. 

 

 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

Really only two things that didn’t go well today.

 

73 yard TD screen for Gibson

McKenzie failure to catch the KO

 

Otherwise just an all around SOLID performance from the coaching to the players.

 

At some point this season, really would like to notice Hughes making an impact at DE though. And that’s two special team blunders in two out of three games now. Gotta tighten that up.

 

Bass also kicked one out of bounds.  

[BillsFan130]

19 hours ago, K-9 said:

It’s less a matter of opinion than it is a matter of understanding the game we all watched. But good for you, four people as clueless agree with you. 

Here you go bud. Since I'm "clueless " and there is no room for debate because the pass rush was "very good", you may want to tune into this podcast.

 

About 20 minutes in.

[K-9]

9 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Here you go bud. Since I'm "clueless " and there is no room for debate because the pass rush was "very good", you may want to tune into this podcast.

 

About 20 minutes in.

Validation at last! Validation at last! Great God almighty, validation at last! 
 

You think I’m gonna be swayed by what Joe Marino or some other draft geek has to say on a podcast relative to whether or not the Bills D line had a good game yesterday? I reviewed the game. I saw what happened yesterday. No need. 
 

 But good for you. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by K-9

[BillsFan130]

26 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Validation at last! Validation at last! Great God almighty, validation at last! 
 

You think I’m gonna be swayed by what Joe Marino or some other draft geek has to say on a podcast relative to whether or not the Bills D line had a good game yesterday? I reviewed the game. I saw what happened yesterday. No need. 
 

 But good for you. 

I really don't care if you get swayed or not lol.

 

My point is it's not as black and white as you say and you're the one who's "clueless" by making that statement.

 

If you want to disagree that's fine. 
 

Just don't be obnoxious about it and call people "clueless " when it's a legit debate

 

[K-9]

12 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I really don't care if you get swayed or not lol.

 

My point is it's not as black and white as you say and you're the one who's "clueless" by making that statement.

 

If you want to disagree that's fine. 
 

Just don't be obnoxious about it and call people "clueless " when it's a legit debate

 

I disagree entirely that it’s a legitimate debate because the D line played very well yesterday and it’s only those who point to the lack of sacks to claim that they didn’t have a good game who seek to make it debate worthy in the first place. 
 

Their good play was obvious. Perhaps I should have used a different word than “clueless” to describe those who didn’t see that. Perhaps “unobservant” or “oblivious” would have been better.
 

But for crissakes, just acknowledge that there are several  indicators of good D line play during the course of a game. Always has been, always will be. And that’s not minimizing sacks as one of those indicators, either. It’s just not being willing to ignore all those other indicators. 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

I disagree entirely that it’s a legitimate debate because the D line played very well yesterday and it’s only those who point to the lack of sacks to claim that they didn’t have a good game who seek to make it debate worthy in the first place. 
 

Their good play was obvious. Perhaps I should have used a different word than “clueless” to describe those who didn’t see that. Perhaps “unobservant” or “oblivious” would have been better.
 

But for crissakes, just acknowledge that there are several  indicators of good D line play during the course of a game. Always has been, always will be. And that’s not minimizing sacks as one of those indicators, either. It’s just not being willing to ignore all those other indicators. 

The lack of sacks to me is not the only factor, but it's for sure a factor.

 

Especially when they only got 2 Qb hits on top of it.

 

I will for sure acknowledge there are factors besides sacks.

 

But I would actually like to know the "pressure " percentage of the pass rush yesterday because to me, it didn't really feel like there was much with the exception of a few plays .

 

I think 0 Sacks and 2 QB hits reflect that^ In the big picture with everything factored in.

 

 

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

I disagree entirely that it’s a legitimate debate because the D line played very well yesterday and it’s only those who point to the lack of sacks to claim that they didn’t have a good game who seek to make it debate worthy in the first place. 
 

Their good play was obvious. Perhaps I should have used a different word than “clueless” to describe those who didn’t see that. Perhaps “unobservant” or “oblivious” would have been better.
 

But for crissakes, just acknowledge that there are several  indicators of good D line play during the course of a game. Always has been, always will be. And that’s not minimizing sacks as one of those indicators, either. It’s just not being willing to ignore all those other indicators. 

Ok so some stats for the pass rush for you:

 

0 sacks.

 

2 Qb hits.

 

9 Pressures (compared to 44 last week to put it in perspective)

 

Sure there are other factors, but seriously what metrics for pass rush are more valuable than sacks, qb hits and pressures?

[Punching Bag]

22 hours ago, jlgarsh said:

It seemed like the DL was in the backfield quite a bit to me. Oliver blew up several plays, and it looked like WFT was holding on almost every snap.

 

They were holding a lot.  They were probably taught how to hold without getting caught.

 

Zimmer was applying a lot of pressure as well and in backfield.   He looked like a tank out there.

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

But for crissakes, just acknowledge that there are several  indicators of good D line play during the course of a game. Always has been, always will be. And that’s not minimizing sacks as one of those indicators, either. It’s just not being willing to ignore all those other indicators. 

 

There were dominant performances before sacks were official stats.

7 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Bass also kicked one out of bounds.  

 

Wind was really bad.  I do not think he has done that before.   Maybe Bills should have practiced squib kicking when they got big lead.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ok so some stats for the pass rush for you:

 

0 sacks.

 

2 Qb hits.

 

9 Pressures (compared to 44 last week to put it in perspective)

 

Sure there are other factors, but seriously what metrics for pass rush are more valuable than sacks, qb hits and pressures?

You keep insisting on chewing on this bone, but ok. 

 

I don’t doubt your numbers here, but I’d appreciate an attribution or, better yet, an actual link to the source so that I can determine for myself how much stock to put into their analysis. If it’s PFF, don’t waste your time because I won’t. 

 

Hurries and/or forcing a QB off his spot and disrupting timing are two additional indicators of an effective pass rush and they aren’t always counted as pressures as it depends on who is compiling them. Given WFT’s dependence on timing patterns in their scheme, this was a big factor yesterday. 
 

Are you ever gonna give Heineke some credit for his ability to escape a collapsing pocket?

 

Look, I apologize for calling you clueless, but I think we’ve dance around this enough. You think our D line didn’t play well yesterday and I do. I’ll agree with you that opinions may differ and agree to disagree. Have a good evening. 

[Jerome007]

I think the DLine played very good, not great, but very good. But was I blind or Epenesa had very few reps, and most when the game was out of reach already? After his crazy good performance of last week I expected to see way more of him. But maybe I wasn't paying attention...

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

You keep insisting on chewing on this bone, but ok. 

 

I don’t doubt your numbers here, but I’d appreciate an attribution or, better yet, an actual link to the source so that I can determine for myself how much stock to put into their analysis. If it’s PFF, don’t waste your time because I won’t. 

 

Hurries and/or forcing a QB off his spot and disrupting timing are two additional indicators of an effective pass rush and they aren’t always counted as pressures as it depends on who is compiling them. Given WFT’s dependence on timing patterns in their scheme, this was a big factor yesterday. 
 

Are you ever gonna give Heineke some credit for his ability to escape a collapsing pocket?

 

Look, I apologize for calling you clueless, but I think we’ve dance around this enough. You think our D line didn’t play well yesterday and I do. I’ll agree with you that opinions may differ and agree to disagree. Have a good evening. 

Fair enough man.

 

I guess what I was just trying to prove was that it's not as black and white as you said.

 

You may very well be right about the pass rush was sufficient enough.

 

I Just thought it was at least up for discussion.

 

I appreciate the apology. You have a good night as well sir 

[BobbyC81]

I’d like to give broadcaster Chris Myers a Game Mike for his comments after a puzzling Washington play when he said “The WFT fans must be thinking WTF”

[Freddie's Dead]

Allen - duh 

Emmanuel "Colonel" Sanders - growing on me.  He and Josh have good chemistry.  Need him to stop false starting for unconditional love.

Cole Beasley - just play Cole, just play 

Matt "Cookie" Milano - earning every penny of that $11M/yr, and like Josh Allen, another steal for the Bills front office 

Taron Johnson/Jordan Poyer/"Dr. Jekyll and" Micah Hyde - terrorized receivers and ball carriers all day (save the screen pass), 2 picks, TFLs, plays all over the field 

 

12 hours ago, K-9 said:

Their good play was obvious. Perhaps I should have used a different word than “clueless” to describe those who didn’t see that. Perhaps “unobservant” or “oblivious” would have been better.

 

SO much better🤪

Edited September 28, 2021 by Freddie's Dead

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ok so some stats for the pass rush for you:

 

0 sacks.

 

2 Qb hits.

 

9 Pressures (compared to 44 last week to put it in perspective)

 

Sure there are other factors, but seriously what metrics for pass rush are more valuable than sacks, qb hits and pressures?

 

The 44 number is wrong. We got 25 pressures in week 2 on 50 dropbacks as per Cynthia Frelund and Next Gen stats. The average winning pressure rate in the NFL is 30% so I can't buy the 44 (88%). We were all over the Dolphins but not THAT all over them. 

 

Washington had 24 pass attempts and Heinicke had 8 rushes. Some of those were scrambles on dropbacks but there was at least one attempted sneak and one designed run. So if we say it was 9 pressures on 30 dropbacks that is right around the 30% average for winning teams. The Bills pass rush was good on Sunday and they got the normal amount of pressure for a team winning an NFL game. 

[BillsFan130]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The 44 number is wrong. We got 25 pressures in week 2 on 50 dropbacks as per Cynthia Frelund and Next Gen stats. The average winning pressure rate in the NFL is 30% so I can't buy the 44 (88%). We were all over the Dolphins but not THAT all over them. 

 

Washington had 24 pass attempts and Heinicke had 8 rushes. Some of those were scrambles on dropbacks but there was at least one attempted sneak and one designed run. So if we say it was 9 pressures on 30 dropbacks that is right around the 30% average for winning teams. The Bills pass rush was good on Sunday and they got the normal amount of pressure for a team winning an NFL game. 

I think I've beaten this long enough so while I appreciate your response, I'm kind of worn out talking about the pass rush lol. As no one will convince me that it was good on Sunday 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I think I've beaten this long enough so while I appreciate your response, I'm kind of worn out talking about the pass rush lol. As no one will convince me that it was good on Sunday 

 

That's fair enough, but I still think you are dead wrong. 

[BillsFan130]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

That's fair enough, but I still think you are dead wrong. 

You're entitled to your opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree.