New NFL-NFLPA Covid protocols

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

I would say Beasley's post is about as off point as the tweet he is responding to. Beasley is talking about a specific very niche situation. The tweet about some dude's sister going through awful experiences day in and day out (much respect to her for real) is a logical fallacy...it's unrelated...very good chance Beasley's response about the flu is making that very point...it's a logical fallacy...just like bringing up the guys sisters experience when Beasley is talking about something that impacts like 1000 people on earth directly (nfl covid saftety protocols).

 

I think it's very much related and not a logical fallacy - if for no other reason than those 1000 NFL people are all out in communities interacting with others -  but again - we're not going down that rabbit hole.

[HardyBoy]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

This is neither about football and is a pretty long leap from the post you're responding to.  Take it somewhere else.

 

 

OK a couple of things:

1) The protocol for covid-19 safety is indeed vaccine related, because the NFL has chosen to set up two sets of safety protocols - one for vaccinated and one for unvaccinated players. 

2) We are NOT going to go into whether or not the NFL protocols have a gap or are sufficient.  That can't be rationally discussed without a deep dive into the latest data on covid-19 transmission to vaccinated people and by vaccinated people, and we're simply not going to do that here.

 

Further posts down that rabbit hole will quietly disappear.

 

 

Thank you for cutting me off, got sucked in there for a bit! Genuinely, I don't even know what I really think about the situation yet.  

 

Wanted to try the argument from Beasley's point of view on for size as devil's advocate, and ended up digging in on it a bit more than I planned. Oh boy though based on the points people made here he's gotta be getting blasted on Twitter.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, HardyBoy said:

 

Thank you for cutting me off, got sucked in there for a bit! Genuinely, I don't even know what I really think about the situation yet.  

 

Wanted to try the argument from Beasley's point of view on for size as devil's advocate, and ended up digging in on it a bit more than I planned. Oh boy though based on the points people made here he's gotta be getting blasted on Twitter.

 

No problem, appreciate the honesty.

 

I think @wjag had the key point:  Beasley said repeatedly that he gave up social media and turned his accounts over to his PR team and was much happier.  So evidently he just can't resist sticking his feet back in the water of social media then complaining about the temperature of the water.

 

I don't Do Twitter.  I follow a bunch of media people who provide great information and some other informative accounts of interest to me - but in general, it's way too full of, well, Twits.

[HardyBoy]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No problem, appreciate the honesty.

 

I think @wjag had the key point:  Beasley said repeatedly that he gave up social media and turned his accounts over to his PR team and was much happier.  So evidently he just can't resist sticking his feet back in the water of social media then complaining about the temperature of the water.

 

I don't Do Twitter.  I follow a bunch of media people who provide great information and some other informative accounts of interest to me - but in general, it's way too full of, well, Twits.

 

I stopped using it entirely (not installed on my phone), but it was great when I first started using it (i was a fairly late adopter) and followed a very few people. Best personalized and curated newspaper ever at that early point. Then followed more and more people and turned into a fire hose of stuff and made it hard to find the real good content, and real easy to waste time making dumb comments to people, so I quit.

 

Ironically, it is a really good way to deal with legit issues you are having with a corporation. You will get the attention of the organization if you do it right, and someone will reach out typically.

[stevestojan]

Haven’t read this thread at all. But I assume most of the last pages are about Beasley. My two cents: I don’t care if you are anti-vaccine. I’d really prefer all of the Bills players got the shot. But I understand (or try to) that some people don’t want to get it. That’s insanity to me, but I understand differing opinions. 
 

However, calling the NFLPA “a joke” and asking “did we vote for this?” (you didn’t directly, but your reps did) publicly is just asking for trouble. 
 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Remember when Androstenedione hit the market back in 1998? A completely untested, unregulated supplement that acted like a lite anabolic steroid. No one knew what was really in it. Yet almost every baseball, football, and hockey player immediately started taking it.

 

 

 

Nah, you could buy Andro powder(with yohimbe bark!) at the Summit Park Mall GNC back in the late 80's.   Anybody that walked in looking for a post-lifting protein powder was getting recommended this andro product and being told it was not a steroid.   So athletes from HS on up were already using it.    But I get your point......the rationale is pretty random.    

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, HardyBoy said:

 

I stopped using it entirely (not installed on my phone), but it was great when I first started using it (i was a fairly late adopter) and followed a very few people. Best personalized and curated newspaper ever at that early point. Then followed more and more people and turned into a fire hose of stuff and made it hard to find the real good content, and real easy to waste time making dumb comments to people, so I quit.

 

Ironically, it is a really good way to deal with legit issues you are having with a corporation. You will get the attention of the organization if you do it right, and someone will reach out typically.

 

Interesting point about the corporation.  I wonder if that's Beasley's intent - cast a net and have someone reach out to him?  That could be either good or bad, depending upon whether it's someone from the league saying "bro, got it mixed - if you need more background on the basis for the protocols, we're here to help" -vs- someone looking to fan the flames as it were.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, stevestojan said:

Haven’t read this thread at all. But I assume most of the last pages are about Beasley. My two cents: I don’t care if you are anti-vaccine. I’d really prefer all of the Bills players got the shot. But I understand (or try to) that some people don’t want to get it. That’s insanity to me, but I understand differing opinions. 
 

However, calling the NFLPA “a joke” and asking “did we vote for this?” (you didn’t directly, but your reps did) publicly is just asking for trouble.

 

It's a point: Cole's kind of throwing his teammates Harrison Phillips and/or Dion Dawkins "under the bus" as (apparently) his NFLPA "alternate" reps

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's a point: Cole's kind of throwing his teammates Harrison Phillips and/or Dion Dawkins "under the bus" as (apparently) his NFLPA "alternate" reps

Not to mention Josh Allen, who was the 1st to say it’s “in house,” and McDermott (who was pretty open discussing vax issues with the press before the players got into minicamps.)

 

And we all know about how Beane got absolutely roasted (by the same union beasley is calling a joke) after he made his comments about cutting an unvaccinated player. 

[Dr.Sack]

A good policy move by the NFL / NFLPA. Unvaccinated players who can still play. It’s going to be okay. 

[Wayne Cubed]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think the way it's supposed to work is that the NFLPA rep from each team is supposed to get info on the proposed rules and take them to the players he represents.  Since the Bills are listed as not having an NFLPA rep, maybe that didn't happen?  Or maybe the Bills "alternates" Dawkins and Phillips were supposed to make it happen and "dropped the ball" being too busy with other stuff?

 

 

I understand he's upset, I get that bit but based on vaccination data that we know of for NFL players, I think his thoughts about the policy are in the minority. It's possible he was informed by the players and is still unhappy with the policy and has questions. Some of those answers are right there in the policy, like vaccinated players are still being tested, just not as regularly. I think in this instance the NFLPA did actually represent the players, in that I think if the NFL had their way it would have been get the vaccine or don't play.

 

Based on what all the team leaders were saying, that they want to keep this stuff internal, I think he's stepped out of line a bit. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Every workplace is struggling with how to deal with vaccinated vs unvaccinated people. It’s your choice not to get vaccinated. But when did choices stop having consequences? 

[Frat-Train]

55 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Every workplace is struggling with how to deal with vaccinated vs unvaccinated people. It’s your choice not to get vaccinated. But when did choices stop having consequences? 

Last Thursday.  There was a memo and everything.  It was a stop; start and continue, where only “stop” was addressed.  The PDF should be in your inbox.  If not, check your spam filter.  If it’s not there, try restarting your computer.  If still nothing, blame Tremaine Edmunds.

[716er]

Cole still yapping this morning. 
 

The crux is this - don’t even need to bring up Covid. The team leader says we keep issue X in the locker room. WR takes issue X out of the locker room and whines about it on Twitter.

 

Hopefully Hodgins can ball.

[OrtonHearsaWho]

His flu related tweet is really the icing on the cake & shows what a moron he is.  He's embarrassing himself & the organization.  Good lord do I hope that Josh doesn't take any advice from him.

[DrDawkinstein]

If anyone is looking for some laughs, Beasley getting absolutely roasted in the thread on /r/NFL

 

 

1 hour ago, 716er said:

Cole still yapping this morning. 
 

The crux is this - don’t even need to bring up Covid. The team leader says we keep issue X in the locker room. WR takes issue X out of the locker room and whines about it on Twitter.

 

Hopefully Hodgins can ball.

 

We brought in Sanders. Just swap him in.

16 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The kid played through a painful injury last playoffs so I don't doubt his toughness and commitment.  His intelligence on the other hand....

 

Speaking of which...

 

Does anyone believe he did that totally naturally? Or did he, like every other NFL player, have the team Dr shoot some chemical into his body which he has no clue what it contains, in order to numb the pain?

 

Little punk hypocrite.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[OrtonHearsaWho]

12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If anyone is looking for some laughs, Beasley getting absolutely roasted in the thread on /r/NFL

 

 

 

We brought in Sanders. Just swap him in.

 

Speaking of which...

 

Does anyone believe he did that totally naturally? Or did he, like every other NFL player, have the team Dr shoot some chemical into his body which he has no clue what it contains, in order to numb the pain?

 

Little punk hypocrite.

 

I think they shot it into his head.

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

How have McD and/or Beane not told him to shut the heck up yet?

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, OrtonHearsaWho said:

 

How have McD and/or Beane not told him to shut the heck up yet?

 

Thinking back to the "Patriot Way" and how BB ran such a tight ship during those dynasty years, and how McD is pretty much doing the same thing and had all his players in line... How do you think BB would have handled a #3 WR stepping out of line and going public like this? Would he even make it back into the facility? Or would they have just shipped the player his stuff from his locker?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

There is zero chance this changes if he keeps it in the locker room. This is not a question of discussing the value of vaccines publicly. He's talking about how the policies enacted by ownership and the union leadership, in which he had no input and no amount of in locker room talk would change are putting him and his family at risk.

 

There's zero chance this changes by him yelping about it on Twitter, either.  And it's not clear to me what exactly he's concerned about.  At first I thought he was concerned about heightened exposure of himself in meetings etc, but then I thought "no, the protocols require him to be masked in those meetings if he's not vaccinated, so he can protect himself."

 

He's supposed to have input.  Not Democracy - public health measures should not be subject to majority vote - but input and transparency.

 

If Cole is worried about the safety of himself and his family from Covid, there is this tool of preventive medicine readily available  to himself and his wife?

 

If he has questions about the scientific or medical basis behind the protocols and whether they're sufficient to protect his family, Twitter is not the place to get answers - the NFLPA has said "if players have questions, call us", the team has NFLPA "alternate" reps, etc.

 

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Is that in response to this?

 

 

Some of the other responses in that thread are pretty funny:

 

 

[716er]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Thinking back to the "Patriot Way" and how BB ran such a tight ship during those dynasty years, and how McD is pretty much doing the same thing and had all his players in line... How do you think BB would have handled a #3 WR stepping out of line and going public like this? Would he even make it back into the facility? Or would they have just shipped the player his stuff from his locker?

Great question.
 

I recall when Josh made his “keep it in the locker room” comments there was speculation it was to protect teammates against the vaccine from being slammed (or even questioned) by the media. If you subscribe to this theory, Josh, and Tremaine for that matter, both stuck their necks out to have the backs of their teammates. 
 

Just an awful look from a process POV.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If anyone is looking for some laughs, Beasley getting absolutely roasted in the thread on /r/NFL

 

 

 

We brought in Sanders. Just swap him in.

 

Speaking of which...

 

Does anyone believe he did that totally naturally? Or did he, like every other NFL player, have the team Dr shoot some chemical into his body which he has no clue what it contains, in order to numb the pain?

 

Little punk hypocrite.

If I'm Beane, I call the trainers office and have all the demerol and toradol spiked with the J&J vax.

[DrDawkinstein]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Nah, you could buy Andro powder(with yohimbe bark!) at the Summit Park Mall GNC back in the late 80's.   Anybody that walked in looking for a post-lifting protein powder was getting recommended this andro product and being told it was not a steroid.   So athletes from HS on up were already using it.    But I get your point......the rationale is pretty random.    

 

Yep, I was one of those High School athletes taking that, and Agent Orange (which was just powder-form Ephedrine), back in the day.

 

However, it didnt really hit or become big in the media until the late 90s when it was put into pill form, and the news cameras picked up a bottle of it in Mark McGuire's locker during his Home Run season.

[Einstein's Dog]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Every workplace is struggling with how to deal with vaccinated vs unvaccinated people. It’s your choice not to get vaccinated. But when did choices stop having consequences? 

The consequences for the choice to not get vaccinated were negotiated.  Beas is complaining about the terrible job (in Beas opinion) that the NFLPA did with that negotiation.  That is not an unreasonable position.

 

As for your every workplace comment, most workplaces have nowhere near the types of restrictions the NFL is placing on the unvaccinated. 

[dpberr]

Cole Beasley is right. I'm a fan that supports his opinion on this matter.  

 

The union did a crap job protecting players from the pro-vax mob and management. 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

We have a very large and strong union with my job.  Our union also reached an agreement on vaccines without our vote.  Not all things required member body vote to come to an agreement within a union.  We actually got a really good deal for getting vaccinated and had over 80% of 13,000 vaccinated within 2 weeks of agreement.  Those who remain unvaccinated, that’s their choice, but life will become very inconvenient for them.

 

This really doesn’t seem that hard, not sure why it is for some of them.

 

Exactly, This: Your union reps have a responsibility to keep you informed, and to convey concerns/input up the chain of command - but everything isn't a referendum and shouldn't be.  If you have a union committee studying the need for fall protection in a certain op with management, getting hip-deep in all the OSHA data and medical data on injuries from different height falls - Expertise matters.  The union guys who have a ringside seat to all the information and facts (and the mandate to dig up whatever other info they could find) should weigh in, it shouldn't become a "popularity contest" based on "my Girlfriend's sister's Parrot Walker said, side effects from wearing fall protection harnesses" or the perceived inconvenience from the young invulnerable studs on the floor and concerns about decreased p

 

Why it's hard for them is that there's all sorts of viral SM crap about vaccine out there, some of it incredibly detailed and plausible sounding (though hollow when tapped, like a Halloween pumpkin).  Add in a lot of these players have spent college and their NFL career with team physicians who may have prioritized game availability over medical best interests, and a healthy degree of skepticism seems warranted.   Some, of course, are conspiracy theorists whom no data or evidence can reach, because they distrust all data and evidence provided by "the establishment" on principle.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, dpberr said:

Cole Beasley is right. I'm a fan that supports his opinion on this matter.  

 

The union did a crap job protecting players from the pro-vax mob and management.

 

Serious question: why do you feel it's the union's job to protect players from some hypothetical "pro vax mob"? 

 

Isn't it their job to negotiate with management to preserve player rights while protecting players health, and didn't they do that?  Vaccination is a choice for players, it's not mandatory - and I'm quite sure the clubs would have liked it to be mandatory and pushed for that.  Players don't have to get vaccinated.  Players can't be cut for not being vaccinated.

 

But freedom of choice doesn't mean freedom from consequences.  Negotiations are a 2 way street.  The players who want to be protected from covid-19 by having high vax rates around them, the coaches who want players to be available,  and the clubs have to get something too.

[4_kidd_4]

Hopefully he’ll make some raps about it!!!

 

Fingers crossed!!

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

Hopefully he’ll make some raps about it!!!

 

Fingers crossed!!

 

His response track to the NFLPA gonna be fire!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If anyone is looking for some laughs, Beasley getting absolutely roasted in the thread on /r/NFL

 

 

My favorite:

 

"I'm a Genetic Freak!"

🤣🤣🤣

[jlgarsh]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

The consequences for the choice to not get vaccinated were negotiated.  Beas is complaining about the terrible job (in Beas opinion) that the NFLPA did with that negotiation.  That is not an unreasonable position.

 

As for your every workplace comment, most workplaces have nowhere near the types of restrictions the NFL is placing on the unvaccinated. 

I wasn't allowed to come back to the office without proof uploaded. That's more strict than what the NFL is saying. It depends on the employer, but the NFL is within its rights to do the same

[Einstein's Dog]

18 minutes ago, jlgarsh said:

I wasn't allowed to come back to the office without proof uploaded. That's more strict than what the NFL is saying. It depends on the employer, but the NFL is within its rights to do the same

Yes, the NFL could try and make that policy.  But it certainly seems reasonable that the NFLPA could have prevented it.  And this seems to be the source of Beas' frustration.

 

The NFL network is saying that 50% of the players have been vaccinated.  And with the pressure on marginal players to do it, it seems the majority have been hesitant.  I believe Beas' comment about "who voted for this" is implying the majority of players did not want this.  From that perspective it looks like the NFLPA did a poor job on this issue.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Forget about the subject matter, I don’t even want to discuss that part. My issue is the fact that Beasley feels such a need to be heard. It’s simply a case of self above team. If he has an issue with NFLPA, he should be free to address that in the proper forum. Instead he’s using his platform to share personal thoughts that stray from being solely a team related issue. There’s no need to convince the public of anything, he’s free to believe whatever he chooses, but take up the issue with the proper people. That’s a much better option than engaging in such non-process style attention seeking. 

 

I think he was possibly just frustrated and didn't have a clear idea how/where to focus his frustrations.  It's not unique to Cole, the reason there are people who make their living advocating for patients with health insurance issues or for consumers with problems is that it's not natural for everyone to know how to advocate for themselves effectively.

 

This just in:

 

"We" in the thread context is clearly Cole and NFLPA leadership, which seems like a positive and productive step.

25 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Yes, the NFL could try and make that policy.  But it certainly seems reasonable that the NFLPA could have prevented it.  And this seems to be the source of Beas' frustration.

 

The NFL network is saying that 50% of the players have been vaccinated.  And with the pressure on marginal players to do it, it seems the majority have been hesitant.  I believe Beas' comment about "who voted for this" is implying the majority of players did not want this.  From that perspective it looks like the NFLPA did a poor job on this issue.

 

What is "this" in your post?  Beasley doesn't seem to be complaining about pressure for vaccination, but rather about the details of the protocols for vaxx'ed and unvaxxed players.

 

I have questions about these specific protocols myself, which it's beyond the scope to discuss here.  If I were a player I would want to know what is the science and evidence behind them, because it is reasonable for an unvaccinated player to want to feel he can prevent catching covid and keep himself available to the team.

[SirAndrew]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think he was possibly just frustrated and didn't have a clear idea how/where to focus his frustrations.  It's not unique to Cole, the reason there are people who make their living advocating for patients with health insurance issues or for consumers with problems is that it's not natural for everyone to know how to advocate for themselves effectively.

 

This just in:

 

"We" in the thread context is clearly Cole and NFLPA leadership, which seems like a positive and productive step.

Fair enough, it just seems that addressing the issue behind closed doors would have been preferable. It’s not the fact that he voiced his disagreement with the union. I took issue when he went off on a social media tantrum. He has every right to file his grievances with his union, and voice his dissatisfaction. There’s just no need to voice uninformed personal beliefs while bickering with fans, after team leaders stated this topic won’t be discussed in public.

 

Cole has every right to advocate for himself, but he also needs to remember that a union represents 100% of the players. When workers are divided 50/50 on an issue, comprises and concessions are going to be made. The union doesn’t represent the unvaccinated at a greater level than the vaccinated, so they are in a tough spot. He’s free to voice his opinion, but should also be aware that nothing is going to fully satisfy both sides. The NFLPA has many interests they need to protect.
 

Cole works under a system with boundaries. He can go through the proper channels in an attempt to change things, but ultimately needs to be comfortable with his own decision and their consequences. Ranting about the flu on Twitter doesn’t seem like a man who’s willing to accept choices and consequences. 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

Joe Mixon no likey nflpa 

 

 

[billsfan1959]

17 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Forget about the subject matter, I don’t even want to discuss that part. My issue is the fact that Beasley feels such a need to be heard. It’s simply a case of self above team. If he has an issue with NFLPA, he should be free to address that in the proper forum. Instead he’s using his platform to share personal thoughts that stray from being solely a team related issue. There’s no need to convince the public of anything, he’s free to believe whatever he chooses, but take up the issue with the proper people. That’s a much better option than engaging in such non-process style attention seeking. 

 

There are all kinds of professional athletes and other celebrities who use the platform their status gives them to share their personal thoughts on all sorts of issues, including those that might be divisive in some way or that could be better addressed in a different forum/way. It seems to me that whether it is acceptable or not acceptable in the eyes of most of us rests soley on whether or not we agree with the stance. However, whether we agree or don't agree, he has the right to speak his mind.

[GoBills808]

I’m just glad Joe Mixon was able to weigh in

[Mike in Horseheads]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I’m just glad Joe Mixon was able to weigh in

#thugsopinionsmatterto

[SirAndrew]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

There are all kinds of professional athletes and other celebrities who use the platform their status gives them to share their personal thoughts on all sorts of issues, including those that might be divisive in some way or that could be better addressed in a different forum/way. It seems to me that whether it is acceptable or not acceptable in the eyes of most of us rests soley on whether or not we agree with the stance. However, whether we agree or don't agree, he has the right to speak his mind.

Agree, but as many have mentioned, the issue is with team leaders previously saying this topic stays in house. This is different than the typical political stuff imo. It’s a divisive issue in many workplaces. Distractions are the last thing you want for your football team. Reasonable people can disagree about politics, while maintaining a friendship, although we’re told that’s impossible these days. This issue is about procedures that affect the daily routine of players. If you have too many guys dissatisfied about it, you have a negative work climate. I’m confident it will all work out just fine. The culture of this team has proven to win out every time. I just didn’t think it was the proper forum for Bease to rant, and there’s nothing political about that. 

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, SirAndrew said:

Agree, but as many have mentioned, the issue is with team leaders previously saying this topic stays in house. This is different than the typical political stuff imo. It’s a divisive issue in many workplaces. Distractions are the last thing you want for your football team. Reasonable people can disagree about politics, while maintaining a friendship, although we’re told that’s impossible these days. This issue is about procedures that affect the daily routine of players. If you have too many guys dissatisfied about it, you have a negative work climate. I’m confident it will all work out just fine. The culture of this team has proven to win out every time. I just didn’t think it was the proper forum for Bease to rant, and there’s nothing political about that. 

 

Fully understand and my response was not to suggest any political motivation on your part. It was just a general observation that people with accesss to the media, including athletes, use that platform all the time to express personal views - many of which are ill informed or could be better expressed in a different way - and that most of us are fine with it when we tend to agree (for whatever reason - not just political) and are not fine with it when we don't. If it is something that is truly something the team feels is disruptive in any way, I am confident McDermott and team leaders will appropriately address it with Beasley, as the should. But, in the end, he has the right to say it and those who disagree certainly have the right to express that as well.