Are sports’ drafts fair to the players?

[nucci]

10 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I watched an a video on ProFootballTalk and Mike Florio brought up a very good point. Sports are the only employment that comes to mind where the employee doesn’t get to choose where he gets employed. I never thought or looked at it that way but that’s a very good point. I wonder if sports’ drafts someday get eliminated. 

does everyone get to choose where they want to work? 

[colin]

9 hours ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

I always figured its because they are technically NFL employees not the individual franchise employee

 

 

 

basically, this.

 

the nfl is a regulated trust.  tbh, i think it's bs that they can negotiate a broadcast deal that does not allow for fans to get that content without opting for a specific servicer.

 

the ticket on direct tv was awful.  as a regulated trust, i should be able, as a consumer whom all regulations in the end are to service (obv that's not really case, i know), to see the games i want without having to opt to one particular service provider.  over the top game sales, online, etc is basically necessary.

 

given how subscription bundles and internet advertising has evolved, they should just let me buy games piecemeal or as a package, where i will watch the actual broadcast with ads and all from the provider who paid for the content.  this is exactly what the streams do, and it's just a great example of the quagmire of bull that we deal with that this hasn't already been solved.

 

rant over

[SirAndrew]

Players with enough leverage could demand where they want to play in theory. Ask the Manning family. I think most players are just happy to reach the highest level of their profession. You don’t hear much complaining about the current structure from players. This is just the opinion of one sports writer. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by SirAndrew

[North Buffalo]

I do think this is kinda stupid... the pay for professional college sports is another thing... though legally the NFL is a monopoly so I am not sure how in legal terms the argument might go. Not sure what the anti-trust rules are regarding this sort of thing or if the NFL has any kind of exemption.  Interesting.

[Mr. WEO]

Every year, graduating medical students enter a residency training  match program that will determine where they will spend their next 3 to 7 (or more) years. They rank their choices, as does each residency program.  A computer program tells everyone where they are headed after graduation. Many will make less than $10 an hour over their prime earning years.

 

Who cares if these guys can't pick where they start their careers?  I just turn on the TV and there they are....

[BarleyNY]

10 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I watched an a video on ProFootballTalk and Mike Florio brought up a very good point. Sports are the only employment that comes to mind where the employee doesn’t get to choose where he gets employed. I never thought or looked at it that way but that’s a very good point. I wonder if sports’ drafts someday get eliminated. 

As others have already mentioned, it is part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NFL and NFLPA.  The CBA allows for many things that would be illegal in a purely free market business environment.  The draft, set rookie salaries, the salary cap limit and floor, roster size limits, league (rather than individual team) broadcasting deals, etc.  So players (and owners) get the whole deal when they sign on.  Then they get a say in any future negotiations. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by BarleyNY

[Tipster19]

30 minutes ago, nucci said:

does everyone get to choose where they want to work? 

I believe so. I can’t think of any that don’t.

[Niagara Bill]

11 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I watched an a video on ProFootballTalk and Mike Florio brought up a very good point. Sports are the only employment that comes to mind where the employee doesn’t get to choose where he gets employed. I never thought or looked at it that way but that’s a very good point. I wonder if sports’ drafts someday get eliminated. 

What is fair to the fans paying the price for the tickets? 

[Mango]

11 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I watched an a video on ProFootballTalk and Mike Florio brought up a very good point. Sports are the only employment that comes to mind where the employee doesn’t get to choose where he gets employed. I never thought or looked at it that way but that’s a very good point. I wonder if sports’ drafts someday get eliminated. 

I mean kind of. The NFL is the company, the teams are franchises. So by entering the draft you’re choosing to work for the NFL. If you break it down like other franchises, you don’t get to pick necessarily which McDonalds, Walmart, Applebee’s etc. you work at. If the opening is on Delaware in N. Buffalo, you can’t just say “but I want to work on Sheridan”. Their response would be “We’re hiring on Delaware right now. Work on Delaware or don’t work at Applebee’s” 

[nucci]

9 minutes ago, Tipster19 said:

I believe so. I can’t think of any that don’t.

You don't know anyone who has ever taken a job they don't really want because they have no other options and have to accept it?

[Bill from NYC]

8 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

If the NFL got rid of the draft or the salary cap the league would become like the professional soccer premiership.  Only a few team have any chance of success.  

And the Buffalo Bills would certainly not be one of them. 

 

I liken the NFL to other forms of entertainment. Both football players and actors have a union to represent them (even though many are multi-millionaires) and seem to do a reasonably good job at doing so. In football, serious rule changes have been implemented for player safety, NOT for the benefit of the owner's pockets. Many NFL fans resemble those watching gladiators go at it. The rule changes have eliminated some of the violence.

 

The NFL players are obviously the best of the best and the league enables them to earn the huge dollars they make. The draft and the salary cap are two of the primary reasons that the NFL is profitable for players and owners and competitive. Not every franchise has fans like us who will spend the big bucks and freeze in order to watch a team with almost no chance to win for 20 or so years. 

 

 

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Tipster19 said:

I believe so. I can’t think of any that don’t.

How about NYC police officers? They can move you out of Queens and into the South Bronx (with huge daily tolls) and there is really not much the union can do. The badge says "NYC." 

[Boxcar]

11 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

These players are CHOOSING to enter a sports draft to make millions of dollars...it’s not like they are being forced into slave labor at gun point...I’d say being drafted is a privilege...👍

That's completely missing the point. It's the same as you getting a degree in engineering and then you just declare "I want a job" and a company takes you into their employ. You get no say, even if the company in question has an awful reputation. It's definitely not fair to the players, but doing it a different way seems impossible as all the top talent would just sign with the best teams.

[Southern_Bills]

11 hours ago, Warcodered said:

It's an important aspect to keep the league competitive and it's an agreed on rule to enter the league. Agreeing to play in the NFL is agreeing to work within rules and restrictions that are also in place for the betterment of the league itself. I mean the job itself is so very different than other jobs I mean the whole thing is designed for them to work in one place while both playing there and all across the country.

 

This, it's designed to protect the  competitive nature of the league. It's unfortunate so many teams are bad at picking the player that best fits their system, ruining some players chances regardless of talent. That's the breaks though.

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

11 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I watched an a video on ProFootballTalk and Mike Florio brought up a very good point. Sports are the only employment that comes to mind where the employee doesn’t get to choose where he gets employed. I never thought or looked at it that way but that’s a very good point. I wonder if sports’ drafts someday get eliminated. 

kind of an interesting topic.  I think the draft probably benefits the players. If you didn’t have it, you would endanger the competitiveness of the league— that is, only a few teams would likely be elite and it could cause many of the the other teams to go under and the league overall to lose a lot of money. 
 

if there is ever a change, I can see it being to the length of contracts. Maybe make rookie contracts no longer than 3 years? 

[Boxcar]

10 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

It's pure socialism

The ability to choose your employer is socialism? Pretty sure it's closer to the opposite.

[JaCrispy]

24 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

That's completely missing the point. It's the same as you getting a degree in engineering and then you just declare "I want a job" and a company takes you into their employ. You get no say, even if the company in question has an awful reputation. It's definitely not fair to the players, but doing it a different way seems impossible as all the top talent would just sign with the best teams.

Not fair to the players? Lol...they’re the ones agreeing to it...🤣

 

Therefore, if you don’t think it’s fair to the players, you should be upset with them for signing an agreement YOU don’t think is fair for them...👍

[CountDorkula]

What i get from TBD.

 

Apparently if you make money it means you shouldn't have a choice in your life.

 

Just do what your told and be a good little boy.

 

 

1 hour ago, nucci said:

does everyone get to choose where they want to work? 

Yes You do.

49 minutes ago, nucci said:

You don't know anyone who has ever taken a job they don't really want because they have no other options and have to accept it?

I mean, They are choosing to take that job, they don't have to.

 

Key word, CHOOSING.

[May Day 10]

It could probably be negotiated out of a CBA.  Im sure it would be a hill owners certainly die on as competing with contracts for upcoming draft picks would be a disaster and a cap would be unsustainable without ELCs.  Ive never seen it as something players' associations have ever have gone after or even brought to the table.  It is probably a thrilling process for many players.  

 

Overall it would be bad for the parity of the league and it would grow weaker and turn into haves and have-nots financially and the Bills, Browns, Steelers, Lions, Packers, etc would be sent into oblivion.

[mjt328]

12 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

I watched an a video on ProFootballTalk and Mike Florio brought up a very good point. Sports are the only employment that comes to mind where the employee doesn’t get to choose where he gets employed. I never thought or looked at it that way but that’s a very good point. I wonder if sports’ drafts someday get eliminated. 

 

Technically speaking, the employer is the NFL.  Not the individual teams.

 

When a player is drafted, this would be like getting hired at a company and then being transferred to a particular department.

The big difference is that instead of managers splitting up employees inside a private conference room, it is done via a public draft.

 

Ask Mike Florio how many employees sign for 6-7 figure contracts right out of college.  

 

It's amazing to me how entitled the people in this country are becoming.  There are sports figures making $10+ million per year at 27 years old, who go around saying they are treated like slaves, and complaining how life is so unfair for them.  And they are being completely serious when they say it.  Honestly, it's disgusting.

 

[JaCrispy]

1 minute ago, CountDorkula said:

What i get from TBD.

 

Apparently if you make money it means you shouldn't have a choice in your life.

 

Just do what your told and be a good little boy.

 

 

Yes You do.

You do have a choice...you have the choice to do something else...the NFL is a business...and a business is allowed to decide how they want to distribute their employees within the business...

 

In pro sports, the goal of the draft format is to maintain a competitive balance in the league, to keep consumers interested every year...the last thing any fan wants is a situation like college football, where most of the best players go to one school...the Bills would never be good if that were the case...

[CountDorkula]

1 minute ago, mjt328 said:

 

Technically speaking, the employer is the NFL.  Not the individual teams.

 

When a player is drafted, this would be like getting hired at a company and then being transferred to a particular department.

The big difference is that instead of managers splitting up employees inside a private conference room, it is done via a public draft.

 

Ask Mike Florio how many employees sign for 6-7 figure contracts right out of college.  

 

It's amazing to me how entitled the people in this country are becoming.  There are sports figures making $10+ million per year at 27 years old, who go around saying they are treated like slaves, and complaining how life is so unfair for them.  And they are being completely serious when they say it.  Honestly, it's disgusting.

 

How much money you make doesn't matter.

Stop focusing on that.

 

How about MLB players who make  60K on minor league contract. Is it fair to them since they make "Regular people money"

[JaCrispy]

3 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

How much money you make doesn't matter.

Stop focusing on that.

 

How about MLB players who make  60K on minor league contract. Is it fair to them since they make "Regular people money"

You just said to stop focusing on money and then you go and use it in your example...

 

I feel like I’m arguing with a bunch of millennials...lol

Edited April 26, 2021 by JaCrispy

[CountDorkula]

2 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

You do have a choice...you have the choice to do something else...the NFL is a business...and a business is allowed to decide how they want to distribute their employees within the business...

 

In pro sports, the goal of the draft format is to maintain a competitive balance in the league, to keep consumers interested every year...the last thing any fan wants is a situation like college football, where most of the best players go to one school...the Bills would never be good if that were the case...

This is an entirely different argument.

 

I also have a choice to do something else, and most of the time the choice is not there, in college these top players are treated like Pawns. They dont receive proper education or traning. they are getting Colleges crazy money and being used as an income machines.

 

Again in a "Normal business" if your business is moving from say Buffalo to Florida, you have a choice to get a different job in that industry, or you can move with them.

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, JaCrispy said:

You just said to stop focusing on money and then you use it in your example...

 

I feel like I’m arguing with a bunch of millennials...lol

While you guys keep brining it up, so I want to see what is considered fair and what is not. 

 

What is the "Money threshold" where being drafted is no longer a luxury because "They make millions so it doesnt matter"

 

Which is your argument.

 

Imagine what it feels like arguing with a bunch of old guys who yell at clouds and think just because someone suggests something its called "Cancel culture"......

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

It could probably be negotiated out of a CBA.  Im sure it would be a hill owners certainly die on as competing with contracts for upcoming draft picks would be a disaster and a cap would be unsustainable without ELCs.  Ive never seen it as something players' associations have ever have gone after or even brought to the table.  It is probably a thrilling process for many players.  

 

Overall it would be bad for the parity of the league and it would grow weaker and turn into haves and have-nots financially and the Bills, Browns, Steelers, Lions, Packers, etc would be sent into oblivion.

The MLB is an interesting contrast to the NFL as their players union is the strongest of any league while the NFLPA is relatively much weaker.  The MLB teams get most of their revenue from local broadcasting and other sources individually, thus the lack of economic parity.  It still has some revenue sharing so that the lesser market teams can survive but that’s about it.  Overall that brings in more revenue to the league - and therefore to players via salaries - than if they’d have an NFL style system.  salaries are further lifted by smaller market teams overspending relative to income when they can “make a run”.
 

It’s unlikely that such a system would work out as well for the NFL though.  Their appeal is broader and more people watch more out of market games than in other leagues.  If the larger market teams dominated then parity would suffer and viewership would look more like baseball.  And if you think QB and star player salaries look huge right now, they’d explode under such a system.  But both the NFL and NFLPA know they’ve got a great thing going so the system isn’t changing anytime soon. 

[JaCrispy]

7 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

This is an entirely different argument.

 

I also have a choice to do something else, and most of the time the choice is not there, in college these top players are treated like Pawns. They dont receive proper education or traning. they are getting Colleges crazy money and being used as an income machines.

 

Again in a "Normal business" if your business is moving from say Buffalo to Florida, you have a choice to get a different job in that industry, or you can move with them.

 

 

 

 

I don’t feel the point of how “the draft is unfair to the employee” has been adequately made...

 

An employer makes it known ahead of time how they distribute employees within the business...the prospective employee either accepts it or not? I don’t see how that is unfair...

 

I’m a 5’8 stocky bald man...how is that fair to me? I want justice! 🤣🤣🤣

Edited April 26, 2021 by JaCrispy

[BarleyNY]

22 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Technically speaking, the employer is the NFL.  Not the individual teams.

 

When a player is drafted, this would be like getting hired at a company and then being transferred to a particular department.

The big difference is that instead of managers splitting up employees inside a private conference room, it is done via a public draft.

 

Ask Mike Florio how many employees sign for 6-7 figure contracts right out of college.  

 

It's amazing to me how entitled the people in this country are becoming.  There are sports figures making $10+ million per year at 27 years old, who go around saying they are treated like slaves, and complaining how life is so unfair for them.  And they are being completely serious when they say it.  Honestly, it's disgusting.

 

That’s not a good analogy as the employee in question only has the choice of taking or refusing one specific job with a non-negotiable salary (initially) at one specific company/franchise.  If they are transferred (traded) they can’t refuse and find another job in the same industry.

 

And while I’m not crying a river of tears for multimillionaire players (or even those making league minimum), it’s important to remember that the NFL gets to act as a monopoly because of the NFLPA and CBA.  Without them, they’d be 32 independent companies and they would have to act as such.  That would mean the end of pro football as we all know it.  The league and players know that there is a lot more good in it for all of them with the current system than without it so there isn’t anything “unfair” about it all.  It’s just part of a trade off that both sides agreed to. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by BarleyNY

[CountDorkula]

2 minutes ago, nucci said:

the players CHOOSE to enter the draft

Because they have no other option. They cant just say, no thank you.

 

I'm going to forego the draft, and sign as a Free Agent.

 

That option does not exist.   

[Boxcar]

33 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Not fair to the players? Lol...they’re the ones agreeing to it...🤣

 

Therefore, if you don’t think it’s fair to the players, you should be upset with them for signing an agreement YOU don’t think is fair for them...👍

Did you not read what I wrote?

[JaCrispy]

5 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

Did you not read what I wrote?

Yes...and I disagree with your view that it’s not fair to the players...but that just means we probably have different views on what constitutes fairness...

Edited April 26, 2021 by JaCrispy

[Doc]

Is it fair that they make millions to play and game for half a year?  No.  Therefore if they think that not being able to choose where they play is unfair, too bad.

[BornAgainBillsFan]

This thread is one of the dumbest in recent memory. But I guess that's what we do as we count the hours until Thursday night.

 

The draft has been around for decades, and the players have been fine with it for decades, because they know that without it their cash cow dies a quick death. The draft provides hope for the bottom dwelling franchises, allowing their fans to at least feel that they might contend in a few years, by building a team of talent at the top of the board. Without the draft, players would gravitate to only warm weather cities, with owners who have bottomless checkbooks, and the league would become defunct within 5 years.

[CountDorkula]

Just now, BornAgainBillsFan said:

This thread is one of the dumbest in recent memory. But I guess that's what we do as we count the hours until Thursday night.

 

The draft has been around for decades, and the players have been fine with it for decades, because they know that without it their cash cow dies a quick death. The draft provides hope for the bottom dwelling franchises, allowing their fans to at least feel that they might contend in a few years, by building a team of talent at the top of the board. 

See Soccer.... You know that most popular sports outside of the US & Canada.

 

Its a dying sport clearly.

[BornAgainBillsFan]

1 minute ago, CountDorkula said:

See Soccer.... You know that most popular sports outside of the US & Canada.

 

Its a dying sport clearly.

 

What does the rest of the world have to do with the NFL? Make your point with the subject at hand, or move on.

[CountDorkula]

1 minute ago, BornAgainBillsFan said:

 

What does the rest of the world have to do with the NFL? Make your point with the subject at hand, or move on.

You said that the NFL would die without the draft.

its proven that leagues can function without it. All of Europe does it. 

But that would mean the death of College football.

[Orlando Tim]

Obviously this is not a perfect analogy but when I was younger my father was offered a promotion in Chicago for the company he worked for that would have given a raise, but he did not want the Chicago part and he remained at his level for another couple years. When the position came up in Orlando he took it, so he had to make the decision that way himself. As for the other options of dispersal of players, European soccer does not have a draft at all, so it can be done but I prefer our way. Lastly the players union could push for a new way but they would have to present the alternative.

[hondo in seattle]

When I joined the army, I didn't choose to be sent to Iraq.

 

[CountDorkula]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

When I joined the army, I didn't choose to be sent to Iraq.

 

You choose to join the army though. So yes, you did. You could have done something else. (The argument being used currently in terms of the NFL draft)

 

They choose to be in the NFL so they don't get a choice where they go. 

 

Thanks for you service!

[Jauronimo]

8 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

You said that the NFL would die without the draft.

its proven that leagues can function without it. All of Europe does it. 

But that would mean the death of College football.

Sounds like its going great in Europe. 

 

https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/04/19/european-football-future-leagues-competition-epl-la-liga-bundesliga-serie-a-ligue-1

 

Premier league has no draft and a team from Manchester has won 17 titles in 28 seasons.  Every other league has a dynasty which makes the Patriot's success success look like a brief run of good luck.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

The players declare for the draft and proactively seek employment by the league first; this is a nothingburger.

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

You choose to join the army though. So yes, you did. You could have done something else. (The argument being used currently in terms of the NFL draft)

 

They choose to be in the NFL so they don't get a choice where they go. 

 

Thanks for you service!

 

Yup.