Zach Ertz about to be traded? [Edit: or Not]

[Einstein's Dog]

I hope the Bills have kept negotiating.  Don't want to see Ertz hit the open market.

 

I now like the idea of trading a DLineman, probably Addison, for Ertz.  Move money out of the DLine and into the Offense, particularly TE.  I'd like a 2 yr deal on Ertz for reasonable money.  The dream is still alive!

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I hope the Bills have kept negotiating.  Don't want to see Ertz hit the open market.

 

I now like the idea of trading a DLineman, probably Addison, for Ertz.  Move money out of the DLine and into the Offense, particularly TE.  I'd like a 2 yr deal on Ertz for reasonable money.  The dream is still alive!

 

I think the Bills would be a very attractive destination for Ertz.  But negotiating a new contract would be best.

[junior]

3 hours ago, Draconator said:

 

 

 

June 1st is 22 days from now... do we think it's possible to average 1.77 pages/day to get us to 100 by then?

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, junior12thman92 said:

 

 

June 1st is 22 days from now... do we think it's possible to average 1.77 pages/day to get us to 100 by then?

I'm a team player.  I'm doing my part.  

And, for the record, I'm not very interested in Ertz.  Too old, on the downslope.  

[Bulldog]

I don't want Ertz either - not interested in an overpriced TE on the downside of his career. But at least I am doing my part to add to this thread ...

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Weatherman said:

Because they’re on the cusp of a championship and Ertz will push them over the edge. They should def drop big $ on a TE that’s on his last legs.  

They have 39M cap room for this upcoming season.....I’m quite sure that can make it work without running into cap problems 

[Weatherman]

25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

They have 39M cap room for this upcoming season.....I’m quite sure that can make it work without running into cap problems 

Swing and a miss.  It has nothing to do with cap, you have a rookie QB, RB, HC, and very young team that’s going through a complete overhaul.  Adding an old TE with an injury history and very questionable longevity IMO is not a move that would benefit this team long term.  This is a move a team on the cusp would make.  

[Einstein's Dog]

30 minutes ago, NewEra said:

They have 39M cap room for this upcoming season.....I’m quite sure that can make it work without running into cap problems 

And that is why Beane cannot allow this to become a bidding war.  Ertz hits the open market and it's trouble, regardless of what they say (see JJ Watt).

 

Needs to get creative and figure this out with a trade/redistribution of assets.  

[Boxcar]

4 hours ago, Weatherman said:

Because they’re on the cusp of a championship and Ertz will push them over the edge. They should def drop big $ on a TE that’s on his last legs.  

Agreed. Now that they addressed the non-issue at running back, it's time to throw the chips in. Maybe they are hoping Ertz is enticed because they have similar jersey colours #TealWithIt

[Logic]

I’m over Zach Ertz.

 

At this point, I’d rather they sign Jesse James or Tyler Eifert to a cheap deal.

 

It’s clear they still believe in Knox and are gonna give him every opportunity to have a breakout year. Ertz signing here would detract from that opportunity.

 

Im particularly intrigued by Eifert, who seems to have gotten past his injury issues (has played 31 games the past two seasons) and his 30 years old. 6’6”, could help in the red zone. Give me Knox/Eifert/Hollister or Knox/James/Hollister and I’m good. 
 

Oh...and Tommy Sweeney returning at full strength could be a nice boost, too. He had some nice moments as a rookie.

 

 

[ganesh]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

Oh...and Tommy Sweeney returning at full strength could be a nice boost, too. He had some nice moments as a rookie.

You mean in the pre-season and the final game that did not matter.

[NewEra]

26 minutes ago, Weatherman said:

Swing and a miss.  It has nothing to do with cap, you have a rookie QB, RB, HC, and very young team that’s going through a complete overhaul.  Adding an old TE with an injury history and very questionable longevity IMO is not a move that would benefit this team long term.  This is a move a team on the cusp would make.  

In your opinion.  
 

Urban Meters wants to win as many games as possible.....starting this season.  Chris Mannhertz is their starting TE.  A veteran like Ertz would be a sizable upgrade and only cost them cap room....which they have plenty of.  
 

it might not make sense for Ertz to go there if money isn’t his only priority.....but jags are trying to win as many games as they can.  If Chris Mannhertz happened to be their TE of the future, then I’d agree with you.  Imo, he’s not their TE of the future.  He’s the TE by default.  

[Logic]

59 minutes ago, ganesh said:

You mean in the pre-season and the final game that did not matter.

Exactly right.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm a team player.  I'm doing my part.  

And, for the record, I'm not very interested in Ertz.  Too old, on the downslope.  

 

 

He is getting too old. Bills should have done a deal for him 60 pages ago.

[Weatherman]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

In your opinion.  
 

Urban Meters wants to win as many games as possible.....starting this season.  Chris Mannhertz is their starting TE.  A veteran like Ertz would be a sizable upgrade and only cost them cap room....which they have plenty of.  
 

it might not make sense for Ertz to go there if money isn’t his only priority.....but jags are trying to win as many games as they can.  If Chris Mannhertz happened to be their TE of the future, then I’d agree with you.  Imo, he’s not their TE of the future.  He’s the TE by default.  

Every team is trying to win as many games as they can...obviously.  My point is that a vet TE with a low shelf life is not beneficial to a team focused on youth and continuity. Yes they need vet leadership, but most likely not at this point of their rebuild.  

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Weatherman said:

Every team is trying to win as many games as they can...obviously.  My point is that a vet TE with a low shelf life is not beneficial to a team focused on youth and continuity. Yes they need vet leadership, but most likely not at this point of their rebuild.  

 

The Bills have been adding older vets all along. 

[without a drought]

It's hard to imagine any real scenario where Ertz is the difference between a championship or not.

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, without a drought said:

It's hard to imagine any real scenario where Ertz is the difference between a championship or not.

 

True.  I mean, how much better could Ertz make the Bills' offense (or so the argument goes)?

[NewEra]

34 minutes ago, Weatherman said:

Every team is trying to win as many games as they can...obviously.  My point is that a vet TE with a low shelf life is not beneficial to a team focused on youth and continuity. Yes they need vet leadership, but most likely not at this point of their rebuild.  

Meanwhile, they signed Tim Tebow.....youth and continuity you say?  Philosophy, out the window. Ertz >> Tebow.  They have cap room. It makes sense to upgrade a position where they have no talent, regardless of how old he is.....30 years old.  He’s not that old.

[Weatherman]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Meanwhile, they signed Tim Tebow.....youth and continuity you say?  Philosophy, out the window. Ertz >> Tebow.  They have cap room. It makes sense to upgrade a position where they have no talent, regardless of how old he is.....30 years old.  He’s not that old.

You seriously think Tebow is anything other than a camp body?  Even if he makes the team, which he won’t, it will be for vet min and a backup role.  It’s not just age with Ertz it’s injuries.  I feel like I’m debating with a brick wall, at least be slightly open minded.

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

True.  I mean, how much better could Ertz make the Bills' offense (or so the argument goes)?

Having a TE that can catch is always optimal.  If he can stay healthy I would say he would be a significant upgrade and a difference maker.  

1 hour ago, without a drought said:

It's hard to imagine any real scenario where Ertz is the difference between a championship or not.

Besides JA, TW, and SD I could make the same argument for all the other players currently on the roster.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Weatherman said:

My point is that a vet TE with a low shelf life is not beneficial to a team focused on youth and continuity. 

 

Focused on youth?  

 

The Bills have one of the oldest rosters in the NFL.    

 

It's funny how fans come up with these totally incorrect narratives.

[Weatherman]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Focused on youth?  

 

The Bills have one of the oldest rosters in the NFL.    

 

It's funny how fans come up with these totally incorrect narratives.

If you actually read, you would notice how I’m not referencing the Bills but the Jags.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Weatherman said:

If you actually read, you would notice how I’m not referencing the Bills but the Jags.  

 

 

My bad.........I should have known somebody would turn the Ertz thread into a Tebow story even though the guy is 33 years old,  has little experience at TE and couldn't even stay healthy playing baseball. 

[NewEra]

34 minutes ago, Weatherman said:

You seriously think Tebow is anything other than a camp body?  Even if he makes the team, which he won’t, it will be for vet min and a backup role.  It’s not just age with Ertz it’s injuries.  I feel like I’m debating with a brick wall, at least be slightly open minded.

Having a TE that can catch is always optimal.  If he can stay healthy I would say he would be a significant upgrade and a difference maker.  

Besides JA, TW, and SD I could make the same argument for all the other players currently on the roster.  

And ertz is a 30 year old tight end that was injured 1 year.....the previous 2 season he played 16 and 15 games.  You act as if his career is over because he’s 30 and got injured once....
 

You then say in the following quote, that ertz would be a significant upgrade and a difference maker......but adding ertz doesn’t make sense for the jags to replace chris Mannhertz....., Why? because they aren’t going to win the super bowl next year?   And I’m a brick wall. Lol.  Oh man. 
 

 

[Putin]

WTH is going on here I was expecting to see Ertz being traded hopefully to Bills , 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Weatherman said:

If you actually read, you would notice how I’m not referencing the Bills but the Jags.  

The Jags had the youngest roster (snap- weighted) in the league based on stats from last year which makes sense. Going on 2020 roster, Bills were middle of the pack (13) overall, pretty young (22nd) on offense and 7th oldest on defense. 
 

Football Outsiders has been tracking snap-weighted age (SWA) since 2006, calculating a team's age not by just averaging the ages of the players on the roster, but by weighting the age of each player by the number of snaps he played in the regular season. 
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2021/snap-weighted-age-2020-nfl-rosters

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The Bills have been adding older vets all along. 

 

True. 

 

I was curious so looked up the average age by team for 2020. The Jags were the youngest at 24.9 years. The middle of the pack #16 Chiefs had an average age of 25.9, and the oldest team is the Falcons at 26.9. The Bills were at #23 at 26.1 years old. It’s only 2 years from #1 to #32 which surprised me a bit, but I suppose it shouldn’t for the 53 man roster. . 

 

Since 2017 the Bills have gone from 30th to 28th to 26th and now 23rd during 2020. Apparently we are getting younger, and I suspect better drafting has a LOT to do with that. With younger generally comes cheaper, and we will need that with Josh’s contract coming up. 

 

Edit: Yolo may have a better source, but I bet the general picture is still probably much the same. 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2020-edition-falcons-jaguars-eagles/

Edited May 10, 2021 by Augie

[Logic]

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

True. 

 

I was curious so looked up the average age by team for 2020. The Jags were the youngest at 24.9 years. The middle of the pack #16 Chiefs had an average age of 25.9, and the oldest team is the Falcons at 26.9. The Bills were at #23 at 26.1 years old. It’s only 2 years from #1 to #32 which surprised me a bit, but I suppose it shouldn’t for the 53 man roster. . 

 

Since 2017 the Bills have gone from 30th to 28th to 26th and now 23rd during 2020. Apparently we are getting younger, and I suspect better drafting has a LOT to do with that. With younger generally comes cheaper, and we will need that with Josh’s contract coming up. 

 

Edit: Yolo may have a better source, but I bet the general picture is still probably much the same. 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2020-edition-falcons-jaguars-eagles/

I view it as a very conscious decision/process by McDermott. 
 

The Bills, unlike others, never went full-on youth movement. It’s a big reason why they made the playoffs in year 1 and why they have had winning seasons in 3 out of 4 years here.

 

McDermott’s coaching staff initially leaned on older veteran assistants, but as McDermott himself gained experience, he began replacing those older assistants with young up-and-comers.

 

It is my belief that he is doing the same thing with the roster. He depended on older veterans to help establish the culture that he envisioned in years 1 and 2, and has been steadily bringing in younger players ever since — as shown by the age ranking changes you just mentioned. As the team begins to depend on more and more drafted labor due to big contracts being given out to Allen et al, I expect this progression toward youth to continue somewhat.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Logic

[John from Riverside]

What am I missing.

 

Are the Eagles just being petty?  Would they rather cut him for nothing instead of getting something from the Bills?

 

That sounds like bad front office management to me.....they would be trading him completely out of the NFC.

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

What am I missing.

 

Are the Eagles just being petty?  Would they rather cut him for nothing instead of getting something from the Bills?

 

That sounds like bad front office management to me.....they would be trading him completely out of the NFC.

 

Seems like they want to wait until June 1st to cut or trade him.  For cap purposes.

[TOboy]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

What am I missing.

 

Are the Eagles just being petty?  Would they rather cut him for nothing instead of getting something from the Bills?

 

That sounds like bad front office management to me.....they would be trading him completely out of the NFC.

Perhaps the Bills were never interested? Or perhaps they were and they’ve since moved on? 
 

I’d love them to acquire Ertz as I think he could really open up the offense, but we really have no idea if Beane is in agreement (or would be willing and able to make it work cap wise).

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

What am I missing.

 

Are the Eagles just being petty?  Would they rather cut him for nothing instead of getting something from the Bills?

 

That sounds like bad front office management to me.....they would be trading him completely out of the NFC.

Maybe the Bills aren’t interested.  They usually aren’t interested in bums like Ertz so it would make sense.

[Einstein's Dog]

6 minutes ago, TOboy said:

Perhaps the Bills were never interested? Or perhaps they were and they’ve since moved on? 
 

I’d love them to acquire Ertz as I think he could really open up the offense, but we really have no idea if Beane is in agreement (or would be willing and able to make it work cap wise).

We do have clues that Beane has interest.  First, there have been many rumors all along the way (see this 50 page thread).  Secondly, there was the quote by McD about not having the same level TE as KC.

 

The FO may have moved on, or maybe (hopefully) they just couldn't come to an agreement earlier.  I've stated my hope of Addison for Ertz after June 1st.  There are other possibilities, ie some type of draft pick, or taking the chance on picking Ertz up after he is cut.  It's not over yet, but odds are nothing happens until after June 1st.  And letting Ertz get cut hurts the Bills chances of getting him.

 

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

What am I missing.

 

Are the Eagles just being petty?  Would they rather cut him for nothing instead of getting something from the Bills?

 

That sounds like bad front office management to me.....they would be trading him completely out of the NFC.

 

Maybe the Bills offered them a 2021 pick before the draft which they didnt take, so now the Bills have told them to go and pound sand...

[wppete]

62 pages about Ertz and he will end up being a Colt. This thread could be a record. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

The Jags had the youngest roster (snap- weighted) in the league based on stats from last year which makes sense. Going on 2020 roster, Bills were middle of the pack (13) overall, pretty young (22nd) on offense and 7th oldest on defense. 
 

Football Outsiders has been tracking snap-weighted age (SWA) since 2006, calculating a team's age not by just averaging the ages of the players on the roster, but by weighting the age of each player by the number of snaps he played in the regular season. 
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2021/snap-weighted-age-2020-nfl-rosters

 

That's a cute way to do it. 

 

But then there is reality.

 

The Bills have dedicated A LOT of roster space and cap dollars to older, veteran reserves.

 

Consider $10M spent on reserve OT Ty Nsekhe,  $12.5M on reserve LB AJ Klein,  another $14M spent on negative contributing reserves like Josh Norman, Spencer Long and Brian Winters just to name a few.    

 

To say nothing of $90M spent on "intended" starters like Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy and Tyler Kroft.

 

When you say a team is young........the obvious assumption is that they have an abundance of cap space...........and that certainly is not the case because they have tossed around a lot of money on guys who did not play a lot of snaps.

 

Bringing back most of the team makes you, for the most part,  a year older.   Adding a 34 year old Emmanuel Sanders and/or a Zach Ertz is going to raise your average age.

 

The Bills roster is not going to be younger this season.........they will probably fall around 5th-8th oldest roster in 2021. 

 

[YoloinOhio]

56 minutes ago, wppete said:

62 pages about Ertz and he will end up being a Colt. This thread could be a record. 

Colts fans are incredibly nice people. We can do a warm hand off of this thread to their forum. Including a few recipes would be a nice touch.

[Turbo44]

Bills, and other teams, probably don’t have interest in him at his current cap hit

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

That's a cute way to do it. 

 

But then there is reality.

 

The Bills have dedicated A LOT of roster space and cap dollars to older, veteran reserves.

 

Consider $10M spent on reserve OT Ty Nsekhe,  $12.5M on reserve LB AJ Klein,  another $14M spent on negative contributing reserves like Josh Norman, Spencer Long and Brian Winters just to name a few.    

 

To say nothing of $90M spent on "intended" starters like Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy and Tyler Kroft.

 

When you say a team is young........the obvious assumption is that they have an abundance of cap space...........and that certainly is not the case because they have tossed around a lot of money on guys who did not play a lot of snaps.

 

Bringing back most of the team makes you, for the most part,  a year older.   Adding a 34 year old Emmanuel Sanders and/or a Zach Ertz is going to raise your average age.

 

The Bills roster is not going to be younger this season.........they will probably fall around 5th-8th oldest roster in 2021.

 

Beane had to overspend to get players to come to Buffalo.  With Josh's ascendancy to elite status, that should no longer be the case.  And obviously the pandemic didn't help matters any this year and seems to be affecting their plans for next year.

 

As for the average age this year, it might not be much higher.  They shed a lot of age with guys like Nsekhe, Brown, Kroft, Jefferson, Roberts, Norman, Winters, etc., while the oldest guy they added was Sanders at 34.  Ertz would push it up more but if they produce as expected and teach the younger guys, it will be well worth it. I'd rather be a talented slightly older team than a lousy young one.

[foreboding]

I clicked on this again, only because I was shocked it was still near the top. Here I am adding to the dribble.