What are your ideas to fix the Bills' running game for next year?

[maryland-bills-fan]

6 hours ago, texasjute said:

Work hard with smart people in genetics and see if we can clone or recreate Thurman Thomas.

 

Seriously, I think this system needs a back who is  a true threat in the screen and short passing game to explode with YAC. Bring the defenses up to think about that more and that opens up more for our downfield receivers. The thing about Thurman was he phenomenal at catching but also had to be respected as a straight backfield runner. Where do we find one of these?

Taylor, Dobbins, Swift and Hailaire were there last year.  We could have traded up for Taylor and Dobbins was picked just after our 2nd round pick, which went for a serviable but not elte DE.

 

6 hours ago, dpberr said:

I'd prioritize size if I'm drafting a RB.  I'm talking Jerome Bettis/Jamal Lewis/Derrick Henry bulldozer size - in the minimum 240 to 250 lbs. range.   

 

I'd want the Bills to have a RB that the defense fears to tackle, especially on short yardage situations. 

Nope.  That just gives 3-5 yards.  We can take a athletic college DE and get that. We need a burner.

 

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, DCOrange said:

Given how successful the OLine was in terms of pass protection this year, I'm not really sure how much I want to shake it up. Their struggles opening up running lanes were apparent, but a part of me thinks we'd be better off just leaning into our passing game and bringing in a 3rd back that's more of a weapon out of the backfield. Guys like James White, Jamaal Williams, LeVeon Bell, Tevin Coleman, Rex Burkhead, etc. are available in free agency this offseason, probably won't break the bank, and would give us something we certainly lack from Singletary and may lack from Moss (though I think he's far more promising as a pass-catcher than Singletary).

 

I personally am not in a rush to bring in a more talented runner than the two we already have, though Singletary's regression this year was definitely alarming. If he can't make people miss the way he did as a rookie and in college, he's not contributing on the field at all so they're going to need to re-evaluate him this offseason and figure out if something significant changed this year, if he had a nagging injury we didn't know about/wasn't in good shape, or if they think he just had a bad year and will bounce back.

 

Many players have sophomore slumps especially if better in first year than expected.

 

With cap money tight they need to figure out was wrong but IMO do not have money to replace with FA player capped.

Hopefully with 2nd set of camps and some improvement in OL they can be much better.

 

Part of training camp needs to be more practice and Kelly Skipper, who has a lot of experience, needs to look at what he can do to improve the RBs on roster.

First thing I'd do is try to get them work with running specialist like Don Beebe - he is Head Football Coach at Aurora University now but House of Speed (called Synergy Sports Performance now) still exists and like Josh RBs need to work with specialists during off season.  

 

Kelly Skipper As coach:

Fresno State (1989–1990) - Graduate assistant

Fresno State (1991–1997) - Running backs coach, return specialists coach & recruiting coordinator

UCLA (1998–2000) - Running backs coach & kickoff return coach

UCLA (2001–2002) - Offensive coordinator

 

Washington State (2003–2006) - Running backs coach & special teams coach

Oakland Raiders (2007–2014) - Running backs coach

Jacksonville Jaguars (2015–2016) - Running backs coach (experience with Yeldon)

Buffalo Bills (2017–present) - Running backs coach

[Agent 91]

You have to have change of pace. Shifty is cute but you need speed. Someone who can run away from people given time. See Jonathan Taylor Raheem Mostert Kenyan Drake. I don't want to pile on Singletary but you have Moss to do the exact same things he supposedly does. Yeldon has a lot of value but you have to have speed defenses respect. And I don't want to hear Christian Wade. You build an interior line that can pull nicely but have a rb who doesn't have the speed to get to the boundary and outrun folks in space. If you want to run power you need maulers but they just didn't do a good enough job of building a complimentary run unit

[maryland-bills-fan]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

I wonder if Daboll simply re-committing in the offseason to finding run game solutions, and an o-line addition or two, could be the answer. 

I think both starting guard jobs should be up for grabs.

It's tough. On the one hand, you want to settle on a starting five OL and establish consistency. On the other hand, if you don't have the RIGHT five OL in house already, you've got to keep tinkering.

In any case, I don't tend to think that simply spending an early pick on a running back is the answer. I don't think Singletary and Moss are, in and of themselves, the problem. I think run game and philosophy and blocking and playcalling have a lot more to do with it.

It will be interesting to see what Beane's approach to this problem is in the offseason.

look at their 40 yard dash time.  Look at how many times, we gave them a pitch toss and asked them to beat the defense to the edge.  

 

Look at how many times, we gave them a pitch toss and asked them to beat the defense to the edge.  

 

Look at how many times, we gave them a pitch toss and asked them to beat the defense to the edge.  

 

 

[Big Turk]

Get some road grading OLinemen in the draft?

 

They have to be good at pass pro as well tho...

[Agent 91]

7 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Hopefully they don't dedicate much in the way of resources to a "running game."

 

Run plays, except in very specific situations, are just a wasted down.

 

 

Run plays IN OUR CURRENT SYSTEM are almost wasted downs. Smash the munchkin into the big people and take the 2 yards. He always has a "big" run or 2 but he doesn't have the homerun capability.

[spartacus]

7 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Daboll has to be a bit more committed to that balance when teams decide to rush 4 and play coverage. We have to do enough to get them out of those split deep safety looks or punish them for it.

 

seemed the Bills would mostly telegraph their runs pout of tight formations

should have spread them out and ran out of obvious passing formations

draw pulls would have been nice as well

[maryland-bills-fan]

1 hour ago, Dukestreetking said:

Many good, interesting ideas here.

 

But I'll go totally off-the-board and suggest putting Zimmer in as a big (and big speed) back.

 

I mean, did you see the wheels on that guy chasing down the TH 70 yarder? Holy crap he's a  frickin burner of a DT.

 

(I'm kidding, kidding...on the run game piece)

 

The ravens put a former DE as a fullback- lead blocker in the backfield.

 

13 minutes ago, WideNine said:

You get the interior O-line fixed first and most RBs will look like all-stars if those guys can get push and open holes.

 

Daboll has to be a bit more committed to that balance when teams decide to rush 4 and play coverage. We have to do enough to get them out of those split deep safety looks or punish them for it.

 

No sense going out spending draft or spend FA capital and have that player run into a wall of bodies each snap. Cart before the horse.

 

 

No. That gives you 6 yards instead of 5 yards on every play but never anything more.  We need a guy who will get 4.5 yards on most plays and 35 yards 5 times a game.

 

[WideNine]

3 minutes ago, spartacus said:

seemed the Bills would mostly telegraph their runs pout of tight formations

should have spread them out and ran out of obvious passing formations

draw pulls would have been nice as well

 

They have tells when they are planning on running.

 

If they have the guys up front, I like the quick hitters like draws, counters, pulls, and duo blocking over stretch plays and sweeps that give defenses too much time to react.

 

Slows down that rush, and if they creep up, it sets them up for play action with no safety over top where Josh can unload like he wants to.

 

 

 

[Agent 91]

7 hours ago, Success said:

Good thread.  I'm sure whatever I think is a few levels below Beane's thinking, but I don't think we're that far.  Moss is a really good start, imo - it hurt us more than we think not to have him yesterday.  He was starting to make a real impact, and he is so much better at the LOS than Singletary.

 

I want so badly for Singletary to work out, but it might be time to move on, in whatever form that takes.  He's becoming consistent at all the things you don't want consistency in - getting 2 yards on most carries, and making mistakes.  That game could have been so different if he holds on to that ball.  Keeping your eye on the ball until it's caught is a RB 101 kind of thing.

 

I thought Yeldon was impressive last night in both the pass and run game, and it made me wonder why we didn't use him more all season.  Where Singletary can't break the 1st tackle at the LOS, Yeldon consistently turned it into a few more yards.

 

I think most of the offseason work & draft has to be defense this year - but if they like a back in the 1st couple of rounds, they should make that a priority.

 

Im still waiting for a good reason for Yeldon to not get burn. We know he's the receiving back. He's out fastest back, straight line. He's also the biggest guy we have I dont get it. You could say he fumbles too much. They both had 1 this year where last year yeldon had 1 and Singletary had 4. OF COURSE Singletary had a bunch more carries but I honestly don't know what kept him out of pads this year

7 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I think letting Morse walk and moving Feliciano to Center long term with Boettger and Ford would be an improvement running the ball. We also will look to bring in a back with speed.

While I agree with moving on from Morse i feel like this is where Spain is going to be missed. I thought he moved well for a big man and is more mobile than Ford. I saw a lot of pulling this year so I feel like they want to be able to move as opposed to being a mauler a la Ford.

[WideNine]

7 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

The ravens put a former DE as a fullback- lead blocker in the backfield.

 

No. That gives you 6 yards instead of 5 yards on every play but never anything more.  We need a guy who will get 4.5 yards on most plays and 35 yards 5 times a game.

 

 

Disagree.

 

You fix the trenches first. Most GMs are not spending the farm on RBs and there is a reason.

 

You fix the line and most are interchangeable, but it would be nice to have the power and home run threat.

 

 

[Agent 91]

6 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Instead of wasting another high pick on running back, we could get a pretty decent, proven one in free agency.

I'm guessing it would cost maybe $5M and we would know what we're getting because the position has been devalued.

 

Options:

Chris Carson

Kenyan Drake

Todd Gurley

Carlos Hyde

Marlon Mack

Phillip Lindsay

 

Save the first round pick for a CB, DE, or someone else who isn't a dime a dozen.

I'd take Drake Mack or Lindsay in a heartbeat

[billsfan714]

Draft a runningback that can outrun present day Frank Gore

[Agent 91]

6 hours ago, nato7412 said:

I like Najee Harris a lot too but I think I prefer Travis Etienne as he's quicker, 4.3 they say, and he's an awesome pass catcher. He has Alvin Kamara potential and I think he and moss would be a great combo while Harris and Moss are a bit too similar IMO.

Etienne is intriguing for sure. I didnt know when he was coming out

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Yeah I’m done with Singletary. His mistake last night might have cost us any real chance at that game. He’s proven all year that he’s not the guy. He and Moss are almost the same player, but Moss is better at breaking tackles. We have control of Moss for a year longer on his rookie deal too. 
 

I really don’t want to see Singletary in a bills uniform again. I think he’s as much to blame for how that game swung as anyone. 

Moss has the power and is A STRONG build. He definitely could be a chris ivory type guy. That's a great change of pace for the speed guy that we dont have yet

[Pirate Angel]

7 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I think letting Morse walk and moving Feliciano to Center long term with Boettger and Ford would be an improvement running the ball. We also will look to bring in a back with speed.

Except Ford is aweful

[KOKBILLS]

They could start fixing it by actually having a running game.🙂

 

I think it's a combination of things to be honest...Scheme...Interior O-Line play...Lack of high end talent at RB...Not enough drilling the run game day in and day out because we passed it so well...etc...etc...

 

The way the Bills can pass the ball, this area really should be the easiest to fix by scheme. Because teams are going to dare us to run in the future. Be ready for it, and burn them...😎

[Mat68]

A more explosive player in the backfield is how its improved.  With Allen becoming a stud you dont want to remove the ball but having a guy that the defense needs to think about will open other things up.  Now do I pay alot for one?  No.  

[maryland-bills-fan]

5 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

Disagree.

 

You fix the trenches first. Most GMs are not spending the farm on RBs and there is a reason.

 

You fix the line and most are interchangeable, but it would be nice to have the power and home run threat.

 

 

Helair #32,,, Swift #35,  Taylor #41,  Akers #52,,,Dobbins #55,,, Dillion #62,,,,,Gibson #66,,,,Vaugh #76.....Bowden #80.  

 

This year we drafted the 10th running back.   A draft pick in 15-50 range is not spending the farm.              

[WideNine]

32 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Helair #32,,, Swift #35,  Taylor #41,  Akers #52,,,Dobbins #55,,, Dillion #62,,,,,Gibson #66,,,,Vaugh #76.....Bowden #80.  

 

This year we drafted the 10th running back.   A draft pick in 15-50 range is not spending the farm.              

 

I do think you can get good value without spending a high pick, but I just don't see Beane drafting RB again this year.

 

We will see. 

 

 

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The way to maximize Josh Allen’s potential is to create an offense with balance. If we had a power running game to go along with our passing game, we could be literally unstoppable. That’s the answer. That’s how you beat the Chiefs. People want to act like running the ball is pointless. Look at what our offense did in the playoffs once teams started clamping down. If the Bills had a power run game, defenses would have to defense every inch of the field against us. Not to mention the improvement of our play action looks. Throw in Josh’s ability to run and there’s nothing anyone can do to really lock us down. There are going to be nights (for whatever reason) that our passing game is going to be hindered. It’s to hard to be consistent playing that way. We are not going to beat the Chiefs, playing the Chiefs A game. Anyone that thinks getting in a back and fourth shootout with Mahomes is a good idea, is nuts. The guy is trending towards being one of the 3 greatest quarterbacks of all time. We will not beat them like that. We need to establish our own identity. You don’t have to be the Titans here but you need balance. All it can do is help us. As a defense, you love to make a team 1 dimensional. It’s ludicrous that we are doing that favor (on purpose) for the other teams.

[John from Riverside]

21 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I do think you can get good value without spending a high pick, but I just don't see Beane drafting RB again this year.

 

We will see. 

 

 

 

The thing is the team is getting to the point where it is so well stocked with talent that being really should be going best player available and the best player available might end up being a running back

 

[maryland-bills-fan]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

The thing is the team is getting to the point where it is so well stocked with talent that being really should be going best player available and the best player available might end up being a running back

 

Heh?   Generally that is a good idea, but applying a general idea to rule a specific situation is often unwise.   If you car is getting low mileage, it is a generally good idea to check to see if the carbarator is working well.   But if someone tells you that you have 4 flat tires, well, there is a better place to look for improvements. 

 

Our lack of a very good running back killed us.  We need a very good running back more than we need somethings like  "the highest rated player is a QB" or "the highest rated player is a kicker" or "the highest rated player is a WR"..     Putting an extra layer of chrome where there is enough NO.  Fixing what is broken. YES.      Last year I would have been happy with (Helaire32-  remember , he played for that team we played last Sunday, and was drafted in the first round),, Swift35, Taylor41, (Akers 52 no) or Dobbins55.  There were 4 more RB;s drafter before Moss   {Gibson(#66) would have been a steal, but most people(me too) missed him}.  We drafted the 10th running back at #80.  Please forget about the story "you can always get a good RB in the 3rd round".  The teams that wanted a good running back do differently.

 

We had a good record this year and have poor draft picks. I think we have picks 30, 62 & 94 in the first 3 rounds and then no picks until round 5. (Diggs trade).  Last year there were a lot of good running backs- not so much this year.  #30 may be too high, #62  is too low. What I would like to see is trading those first two picks to get two picks in the #40->#50 range.    You probably never would get the exact trades as you scheme, but #30 and #62, could work out to get #39 (7th in 2nd round0 and #50 (18th in second round). That would avoid overpaying for the RB with the first round pick and satisfy getting the "BPA" for the actual draft pick we walked up to the podium with.

 

Now they can't double the WR's and if they play man-to-man the RB get  head start on the DB's.  Deep safeties are NOT in the box. We can run around the edge. We can do screen passes. They have to protect more of the field. You have to threaten chunk yardage plays and there is another weapon.

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by maryland-bills-fan

[The Firebaugh Kid]

18 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

We need to get rid of Moss and Motor period.  Given the sample size we have witnessed of both players including last year and this season.  They are to small and don't have the speed or strength to break the initial hit at the point of contact and they both lack speed to impact the plays at the LOS.   Their receiving skills are questionable at best.

 

I have watched so many other teams this year and the good backs like Chubb, Kamara and McCaffrey always seem to make a second move to find a opening to get through the LOS if they are initially stopped or hit, or they break off left or right of the initial hit to gain yards somewhere else on the LOS when they don't see any daylight. 

 

Our backs don't possess any of those skillset traits.  I have seen them get hit and because of their size, they are either stopped at the initial point of impact or put on the ground shortly afterwards.  Only once have I seen Motor or Moss truly make a move in the secondary that shows they have pure instinctive RB traits, to avoid a possible would be tackler.  Good RB's consistently break tackles and make people miss.  These two can't.  Even when they are past the LOS in a somewhat open field.

 

Although the O-Line is bad at run blocking, I can count too many times this year where our backs were a "Zero" threat when they got into the open field.  They were terrible could not extend plays and get yardage that other backs in this league would.

 

We need to find another Karlos Williams but without all the associated problems he had off the field.

Agree 100% they both lack explosiveness. Not for nothing, but 35 reminded me a bit of Karlos. Runs angry

[T master]

18 hours ago, BornAgainBillsFan said:

 

Green Bay took Dillon in the 2nd round (#62). He was gone when Beane took Moss at #86. But every know-it-all I heard leading up to the draft had Dillon going 4th round-ish. So he might have been in the plans for the Bills. It's just someone else took a leap of faith.

 

 

Would he have been better than who they did pick in the second i can't remember who we took 🤔 .

[WideNine]

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

The thing is the team is getting to the point where it is so well stocked with talent that being really should be going best player available and the best player available might end up being a running back

 

 

They have aging DEs, linebackers and safeties they have to decide whether or how to extend, Allen's contract.

 

There may be a few holes to fill once Beane decides who to keep and who to let walk, and some may just have a higher market value than what Beane is willing to pay and no hard feelings if they test the market.

 

If someone phenomenal drops that they think is a steal then yeah maybe.

 

 

 

[Victory Formation]

I think Buffalo could use another quality TE. One that can catch and block. More twin TE sets, easier to run, better personnel for run blocking with the option to pass and run the play action. Could use an elite FB. Losing Dimarco did seem to hurt the team in terms of running the football. Buffalo runs a lot of 3-4 WR sets which is not conducive to running the football. Need to start running heavier sets.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

FWIW, both Allen and Dawkins were asked how can the Bills fix their run game this off season in their pressers.

 

Allen basically said (as I recall it) "I really don't know" (that took me aback a bit)

Dawkins said "We just need to dial in a little more" and "we're a passing team" and some other kind of typically Shnowman-ish stuff (but it kind of gave me the impression that the line just doesn't focus very much on run blocking in practice or meetings.

 

[Freddie's Dead]

Have one....

[dbfla10]

this 100% falls on daboll. The zone blocking scheme is too easy to stop. Little to no imagination in the run game. Not sure the Bills ran 1 misdirection play all year. Ravens, niners, Rams, are all creative and use a lot of moving parts. 

[maryland-bills-fan]

15 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

Disagree.

 

You fix the trenches first. Most GMs are not spending the farm on RBs and there is a reason.

 

You fix the line and most are interchangeable, but it would be nice to have the power and home run threat.

 

 

There were 10 RB taken before Moss in the last draft.  7 of them, in my opinion, would have been a big improvement over Moss/motor.  Enough to give us a balanced offense.  We ran 40% of the time last year which includes all of Allen's "runs".

                       att.     yards   long   avg

Singletary        156     684     51   4.4

Moss                112      487     31    4.3  

Allen                 102     421     24    4.1

 

There were a few other rushers listed, some might be backwards passes o scramles/sacks.  Anyway without Allen included, we did runs to those two RBs  about 27 % of the time.  The lowest % rushing (including their QB) is 35% Jacksonville. The highest is the Ravens at 57%.    ... .My point is that we are way under the league practice in using the running game.

 

 

 

https://fftoday.com/stats/20_run_pass_ratios.html

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2020.htm

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-play-pct

[Buddo]

They either need a power back, or a guy with speed. A power back helps the inadequacies of the blocking, or a speed guy gives us a chance to get outside for big gains - either with regular blocking, or screens. Hence opening up options in the passing game.

 

They must be able to do something to improve the run blocking, even if it's only a relatively small margin

[maryland-bills-fan]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

Would he have been better than who they did pick in the second i can't remember who we took 🤔 .

Espensa the defensive end.  So far this year he looks like a jag.  He could be better than average overall but is not a big QB rush threat.

 

[WideNine]

4 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

There were 10 RB taken before Moss in the last draft.  7 of them, in my opinion, would have been a big improvement over Moss/motor.  Enough to give us a balanced offense.  We ran 40% of the time last year which includes all of Allen's "runs".

                       att.     yards   long   avg

Singletary        156     684     51   4.4

Moss                112      487     31    4.3  

Allen                 102     421     24    4.1

 

There were a few other rushers listed, some might be backwards passes o scramles/sacks.  Anyway without Allen included, we did runs to those two RBs  about 27 % of the time.  The lowest % rushing (including their QB) is 35% Jacksonville. The highest is the Ravens at 57%.    ... .My point is that we are way under the league practice in using the running game.

 

 

 

https://fftoday.com/stats/20_run_pass_ratios.html

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2020.htm

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-play-pct

 

On the usage part, yeah we lack enough balance to force teams to play our run.

 

 

[billsfan89]

I don't think vastly different changes in on field talent are needed. If they can keep Mongo and D.Williams on the line and have Ford compete with Ike for the LG spot I think the team will have the talent needed on the o-line. Whereas the RB situation I don't think needs to change much. Moss and Singletary are a capable combo, I particularly like Moss as the primary back and Singletary as a good back to take 35% of the work. But what needs to change is the balance in the coaching staffs approach to the ground game esp in worsening conditions. 

 

I don't think this team is suddenly going to get more balanced and be a highly impactful rush offense. But I can see this team running just a bit more to have a rushing attack that is primed and ready for a deep playoff run. It is more so on the coaching to scheme better runs and develop that power game when needed.

[jcamm1966]

10 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Helair #32,,, Swift #35,  Taylor #41,  Akers #52,,,Dobbins #55,,, Dillion #62,,,,,Gibson #66,,,,Vaugh #76.....Bowden #80.  

 

This year we drafted the 10th running back.   A draft pick in 15-50 range is not spending the farm.              

Chubb Num 34

[BaaadThingsMan]

RB first or second round. Najee Harris or Travis Etienne would help with that.

[May Day 10]

Wondering if they can sign Cordarrelle Patterson and manufacture something creative for a running game/homerun threat

[SectionC3]

28 minutes ago, Buddo said:

They either need a power back, or a guy with speed. A power back helps the inadequacies of the blocking, or a speed guy gives us a chance to get outside for big gains - either with regular blocking, or screens. Hence opening up options in the passing game.

 

They must be able to do something to improve the run blocking, even if it's only a relatively small margin

 

Yup.  Moss and Singletary are basically .250 hitters in baseball.  No special attributes for either one; neither is fast, one is more elusive than the other and one is more powerful than the other.  But neither is powerful enough, and neither is elusive enough.  

[Buddo]

A bit of a curveball to this debate, would be to re-evaluate our roster decisions positionally, on game days. I know McDermott likes rotation of his D-Linemen, but we might be keeping too many active, when we could have room for an extra back. Either a bruiser or speedster.

[maryland-bills-fan]

1 hour ago, jcamm1966 said:

Chubb Num 34

Nich Chubb was from 2018: Rd 2, Pk 35 (CLE)