Defensive game plans

[WIDE LEFT]

Having a hard time understanding Bills defensive game plans recently. They simply don’t seem to tailor their game plan to the specific opponent they play each week. Case in point - Patriots roll into town with perhaps the most pathetic wide receiver group in recent NFL history. One truism about WRs - most difficult thing for a WR is to create separation versus NFL caliber defensive backs. It’s oh so much easier for lesser talented WRs to find soft spots/openings in zone coverage (see Zay Jones). And yet against these talent challenged WRs we played a ton of soft zone - allowing Cam to have a decent passing day.

 

Worse yet was the times they did go man to man. Pats had one decent, experienced WR Sunday - Jacobi Myers. On his big catches of the day he was matched against either are worst cover corner (Taron Johnson) or a safety. Why wasnt our 10 million dollar CB on him ALL day?. He was their number one threat. Take away the best/favorite target. Again not scheming for the specific opponent. Please don’t respond by telling me Jacobi M operated out of the slot. Doesn’t mean White can’t be assigned to him. Last year they matched White up against big time tight ends. It’s not a surprise that the D has struggled this year, when staff doesn’t adjust scheme to specific opponent. Too predictable- offenses coming in here know exactly what to expect. And it shows.

 

 

[wvbillsfan]

I agree with all of this. The plans lack any creativity that we've seen in the past. We seem unable to adjust once an offense figures out what we are trying to do to them. We should've blitzed new england into submission and made cam throw the ball. Id send Klein on almost every play, what else is he going to do. We rarely help Taron Johnson even though he continues to get burnt like toast. I believe the defense will improve but schematically the coaches are doing much to help. 

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

Frazier is an idiot and he's going to play that soft soccer zone all year. Regardless of who we're playing. And on top of that it's highly unlikely we trade for or acquire a 1 tech by tonight. All I can do is shake my head. Simply astounding? 

[BuffaloRebound]

If you can’t stop the run (which includes QB scrambles) there’s not really much you can do to be creative on the defensive side.  

[Jauronimo]

28 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said:

I agree with all of this. The plans lack any creativity that we've seen in the past. We seem unable to adjust once an offense figures out what we are trying to do to them. We should've blitzed new england into submission and made cam throw the ball. Id send Klein on almost every play, what else is he going to do. We rarely help Taron Johnson even though he continues to get burnt like toast. I believe the defense will improve but schematically the coaches are doing much to help. 

 

 

Klein blitzed several times and was completely ineffective.  Its like he made no attempt to dodge the Olinemen and just ran into a brick wall and gave up.  It was horrible.

[Jobot]

The Bills used the blitz during moments of panic during the PATs.. I was losing my mind when on the few obvious passing downs that were presented, we blitzed instead of dropping into coverage against a very shaky passer, Newton.

So agreed, whoever is calling the defensive plays.. does not get it.

[All_Pro_Bills]

My hope was they'd come out against the Patriots with man-to-man on the outside with a high safety and a "spy" in the box on Newton.  No such thing.  Soft zone with lots of space between the receiver and the defenders to comfortably throw the ball to the receiver waiting all by himself. 

 

One things for sure.  If they come out next week against Wilson and the Seattle offense with this vanilla, first week of pre-season defense they are going to get shredded all day long. 

[warrior9]

17 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

My hope was they'd come out against the Patriots with man-to-man on the outside with a high safety and a "spy" in the box on Newton.  No such thing.  Soft zone with lots of space between the receiver and the defenders to comfortably throw the ball to the receiver waiting all by himself. 

 

One things for sure.  If they come out next week against Wilson and the Seattle offense with this vanilla, first week of pre-season defense they are going to get shredded all day long. 

Tre needs to be on DK the entire game and have Hyde shaded to his side. I'd be shocked if I saw anything different. I'd expect a lot of Man-2 this game, but we'll see. Hopefully Milano is finally on track to play 70+% of the snaps and we see more Siran.

[PaattMaann]

4 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

 

All this team ever does is the classic 'line up and force teams to beat you' look on defense which is exactly what Dick 'The Corpse' Jauron's teams did. Problem is even the more mediorce to bad teams in the league will move the ball against this as well, let alone the good teams destroying it. There's no disguised coverages which is why opposing WR's and TE's are constantly wide open.

 

This is why I don't really see this team doing much or making any big trades today because they will stick with what they have so they can fire Leslie Frasier as the convenient scapegoat for what went wrong especially if this team fizzles out and misses the playoffs which I suspect is coming.

 

boy this post makes it obvious you have no clue what you are watching on Sundays 

[warrior9]

7 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

 

All this team ever does is the classic 'line up and force teams to beat you' look on defense which is exactly what Dick 'The Corpse' Jauron's teams did. Problem is even the more mediorce to bad teams in the league will move the ball against this as well, let alone the good teams destroying it. There's no disguised coverages which is why opposing WR's and TE's are constantly wide open.

 

This is why I don't really see this team doing much or making any big trades today because they will stick with what they have so they can fire Leslie Frasier as the convenient scapegoat for what went wrong especially if this team fizzles out and misses the playoffs which I suspect is coming.

STRONNGGGG post : username ratio.

 

This might be the third or fourth clueless post I've seen from you.

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, WIDE LEFT said:

Having a hard time understanding Bills defensive game plans recently. They simply don’t seem to tailor their game plan to the specific opponent they play each week. Case in point - Patriots roll into town with perhaps the most pathetic wide receiver group in recent NFL history. One truism about WRs - most difficult thing for a WR is to create separation versus NFL caliber defensive backs. It’s oh so much easier for lesser talented WRs to find soft spots/openings in zone coverage (see Zay Jones). And yet against these talent challenged WRs we played a ton of soft zone - allowing Cam to have a decent passing day.

 

Worse yet was the times they did go man to man. Pats had one decent, experienced WR Sunday - Jacobi Myers. On his big catches of the day he was matched against either are worst cover corner (Taron Johnson) or a safety. Why wasnt our 10 million dollar CB on him ALL day?. He was their number one threat. Take away the best/favorite target. Again not scheming for the specific opponent. Please don’t respond by telling me Jacobi M operated out of the slot. Doesn’t mean White can’t be assigned to him. Last year they matched White up against big time tight ends. It’s not a surprise that the D has struggled this year, when staff doesn’t adjust scheme to specific opponent. Too predictable- offenses coming in here know exactly what to expect. And it shows.

 

 

Agree with everything you said. I’ve been basically saying the same thing about the defensive game plan. It really doesn’t make sense to me

[InEnemyTerritory]

4 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

STRONNGGGG post : username ratio.

 

This might be the third or fourth clueless post I've seen from you.

He's a Phins fan; ignore him

[wvbillsfan]

44 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Klein blitzed several times and was completely ineffective.  Its like he made no attempt to dodge the Olinemen and just ran into a brick wall and gave up.  It was horrible.

Do not disagree. Saw exactly what you saw. But it’s still better than having this guy in space. If he’s occupying a blocker maybe someone else will win a 1 on 1

[warrior9]

2 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said:

Do not disagree. Saw exactly what you saw. But it’s still better than having this guy in space. If he’s occupying a blocker maybe someone else will win a 1 on 1

Yeah I agree. I do wish he would win at least 1 or 2 .. 1 on 1's himself.

[Johnnycage46]

11 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

STRONNGGGG post : username ratio.

 

This might be the third or fourth clueless post I've seen from you.

 

You need to look a little harder.  There are MANY more.

[warrior9]

2 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

You need to look a little harder.  There are MANY more.

I meant this week... sorry.

[Rocky Landing]

52 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

 

All this team ever does is the classic 'line up and force teams to beat you' look on defense which is exactly what Dick 'The Corpse' Jauron's teams did. Problem is even the more mediorce to bad teams in the league will move the ball against this as well, let alone the good teams destroying it. There's no disguised coverages which is why opposing WR's and TE's are constantly wide open.

 

This is why I don't really see this team doing much or making any big trades today because they will stick with what they have so they can fire Leslie Frasier as the convenient scapegoat for what went wrong especially if this team fizzles out and misses the playoffs which I suspect is coming.

No disguised coverages??? I think I posted this about you in another thread: I think you have an identification disorder similar to dyslexia, where you think you are watching an entirely different team. I'm not sure what team you're actually watching, but it's not the Bills.

[Penfield45]

Our coaching staff has shown multiple times they are not good enough to turn us into an elite NFL team. We will forever be a meddling team who sneaks into the playoffs or wins the division and exits in the 1st round, like the Bengals with Marvin Lewis. We are stuck with McD for a while so might as well see what happens and hope Allen turns into a top 5 QB 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Penfield45

[dpberr]

Speculation of course, but I think there are growing pains with Edmunds being the "caller" on the defense after Alexander's retirement. I think this year is his first year doing it.   He's got the speaker in the helmet, and it's not just running what is communicated from the sideline like a robot because the call will dictate the sides, gaps and alignment specifications but the linebacker has to make a split second decision to change the play if he sees something from the offense.  

 

I don't think that particular part is going very well.  McDermott had Trotter in Philly, Keuchly and Davis in Carolina.  Experienced pros with a high aptitude for the game.  

 

I'm not saying Edmunds lacks the aptitude, but he's being asked to do a job he certainly didn't do in college or his first couple years as a Bill. It's new for him, with no camp or preseason.  He's not a 10-year vet out there who's seen it all and can bark out a blitz or align the corners differently if he sees something.   

 

You won't hear coaches discuss this part either because that's the nuts and bolts of the strategy and coaches just feed vanilla to the press.  

 

Lorenzo Alexander was a good football player, but he has an elite football intelligence, from the years of playing and natural aptitude for the game.  That can't be readily replaced even under ideal circumstances.

[Jobot]

24 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

Our coaching staff has shown multiple times they are not good enough to turn us into an elite NFL team. We will forever be a meddling team who sneaks into the playoffs or wins the division and exits in the 1st round, like the Bengals with Marvin Lewis. We are stuck with McD for a while so might as well see what happens and hope Allen turns into a top 5 QB 

 

This might be the worst take I've ever seen on a football team🤣

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

3 hours ago, warrior9 said:

Tre needs to be on DK the entire game and have Hyde shaded to his side. I'd be shocked if I saw anything different. I'd expect a lot of Man-2 this game, but we'll see. Hopefully Milano is finally on track to play 70+% of the snaps and we see more Siran.

I think DK is going to eat Tre Whites lunch but that’s just me. I bet our shut down CB “yea right” is only on DK 35% of the time. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 hours ago, warrior9 said:

Tre needs to be on DK the entire game and have Hyde shaded to his side. I'd be shocked if I saw anything different. I'd expect a lot of Man-2 this game, but we'll see. Hopefully Milano is finally on track to play 70+% of the snaps and we see more Siran.

 

Ugh - i hate man 2 against mobile QBs.  Like asking to see wilson pick up like 60 yards and a TD on scrambles.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, PaattMaann said:

 

boy this post makes it obvious you have no clue what you are watching on Sundays 

 

I know, it's like "what did I even just read?"

 

3 hours ago, warrior9 said:

STRONNGGGG post : username ratio.

 

This might be the third or fourth clueless post I've seen from you.

 

You must avoid reading what he posts more.  My count is just "plethora"

[Big Turk]

5 hours ago, wvbillsfan said:

I agree with all of this. The plans lack any creativity that we've seen in the past. We seem unable to adjust once an offense figures out what we are trying to do to them. We should've blitzed new england into submission and made cam throw the ball. Id send Klein on almost every play, what else is he going to do. We rarely help Taron Johnson even though he continues to get burnt like toast. I believe the defense will improve but schematically the coaches are doing much to help. 

 

 

 

They DID blitz NE but rarely got there.  And they sent Klein numerous times and he kept getting stonewalled by the RB....so bad to the point I swore he was going to get pancaked a few times.  I am not sure what game you were watching but they DID blitz quite a bit and Klein did get sent but was extremely ineffective.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

Our coaching staff has shown multiple times they are not good enough to turn us into an elite NFL team. We will forever be a meddling team who sneaks into the playoffs or wins the division and exits in the 1st round, like the Bengals with Marvin Lewis. We are stuck with McD for a while so might as well see what happens and hope Allen turns into a top 5 QB 

That's one of my biggest fears is we become the Marvin Lewis Bengals.

[colin]

someone made a post about our coaches being great monday to sat, but not so much on sunday.  i think that is the crux of the issue.  i think they go conservative, but in a bad way, which is to say afraid of making changes later in the game.

 

we saw that vs KC and new england.  we had some success of sorts in both games early, but later on we got mashed on D (it was much better vs NE than KC obv, but still).  our constant 3rd quarter under performance has shown this too.

 

not, i will say vs jests and faketriots we seemed to show improve in the 3rd quarter at least, but then the pats ran the same dang play on us like every time, including on 3rd downs, and it was working!  the one drive when they just like hurry up ran on us to a TD showed me they saw us lined up a certain way and knew they had a play to beat it, and we didn't adjust at all.  so anyhow, our corches need to have a couple plans, or learn to figure things out on the fly, but i do think they get guys prepared and motivated.

[freddyjj]

2 hours ago, dpberr said:

Speculation of course, but I think there are growing pains with Edmunds being the "caller" on the defense after Alexander's retirement. I think this year is his first year doing it.   He's got the speaker in the helmet, and it's not just running what is communicated from the sideline like a robot because the call will dictate the sides, gaps and alignment specifications but the linebacker has to make a split second decision to change the play if he sees something from the offense.  

 

I don't think that particular part is going very well.  McDermott had Trotter in Philly, Keuchly and Davis in Carolina.  Experienced pros with a high aptitude for the game.

https://buffalowdown.com/2020/05/28/buffalo-bills-why-is-tremaine-edmunds-being-overlooked/

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/why-bills-veterans-see-all-the-signs-for-tremaine-edmunds-to-emerge-into-a-defen

 

Sorry but this is his 3rd year of calling D with green sticker on helmet.

[Rubes]

I agree it's confusing. Against the Pats****, who had only one NFL caliber WR, on a blustery day, with a shaky QB, one would expect the defense to try and completely shut down the running game and force Cam to try and throw it. Seemed to have worked fairly well in the first half, as we held them to under 50 yards rushing and 6 points.

 

Not sure what happened in the second half. I read somewhere that the Pats**** brought in a FB to lead block in the second half with strong results, but I'm still surprised it had so much impact. Bills should have sold out against the run. I guess the concerning thing would be if they did, and they still got shredded.

 

In any case, no matter what defense we try next week, Seattle is going to shred it.

 

[popcornpam]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Frazier is an idiot and he's going to play that soft soccer zone all year. Regardless of who we're playing. And on top of that it's highly unlikely we trade for or acquire a 1 tech by tonight. All I can do is shake my head. Simply astounding? 

It’s so boring to watch at least the New York Giants were attacking last night. He has three guys around a receiver and hopes the receiver drops the ball

[Big Turk]

This is ridiculous.  Teams literally make adjustments on both sides of the ball from SERIES to SERIES, forget half to half.  This take is just based on no form of reality. Maybe OP has been playing Madden too much. Their adjustments work sometimes(Jets and Raiders games) and don't other times.  That's life in the NFL playing big boy football. Same for any other team.

Edited November 3, 2020 by matter2003

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Klein blitzed several times and was completely ineffective.  Its like he made no attempt to dodge the Olinemen and just ran into a brick wall and gave up.  It was horrible.

as does edmunds. its weird. seems to watch players shift aside of him and then past him.
I know I am reading it wrong. But our Up LBs  really look out of place and or unaware of the play running at them.
Fraziers gap assignments a bit to strict ???LOL
 

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Ugh - i hate man 2 against mobile QBs.  Like asking to see wilson pick up like 60 yards and a TD on scrambles.

this might be the toughest game to Coach from a defensive perspective.

A sincere test.

 This game should  give me my first   (Billsfootballfan) stroke of this season. Been good so far actually.

McFrazier better   change up a bit with tendencies.  Wilson is just too good for any team.  Our Offense will need to score points like they were doing early  .and our defense need to hold their own. 
Going to be a hell of a ride.

[PUNT750]

11 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

If you can’t stop the run (which includes QB scrambles) there’s not really much you can do to be creative on the defensive side.  

Jefferson, Butler and Addison simply aren't quick enough. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

11 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Frazier is an idiot and he's going to play that soft soccer zone all year. Regardless of who we're playing. And on top of that it's highly unlikely we trade for or acquire a 1 tech by tonight. All I can do is shake my head. Simply astounding? 

A bit harsh ??