LabattBlue Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) I’m sure it is a closely guarded secret at OBD, but how much say do you think McD has in terms of personnel? I’m not talking about who starts and who sits, I’m referring to what players are signed, traded, and drafted, and which players either don’t make the 53 man roster, or in the case of Spain, cut loose in mid-season. Bottom line...how much blame goes to McD for the OL and DL disasters despite $$$ thrown at the problem? Edited October 21, 2020 by Back the Blue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 It's a mutual decision. If they don't agree after discussing pros/cons/whateverelse then they don't do it or find an alternate solution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigdaddyinOrlando Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 These guys work in tandem and I believe all are involved and have respected opinions and thoughts 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg S Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I just hope Terry and Kim don't get involved in the football decisions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Greg S said: I just hope Terry and Kim don't get involved in the football decisions. After the Rex Ryan debacle, I think they’ve learned their lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanThru-N-Thru Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 39 minutes ago, Back the Blue said: I’m sure it is a closely guarded secret at OBD, but how much say do you think McD has in terms of personnel? I’m not talking about who starts and who sits, I’m referring to what players are signed, traded, and drafted, and which players either don’t make the 53 man roster, or in the case of Spain, cut loose in mid-season. Bottom line...how much blame goes to McD for the OL and DL disasters despite $$$ thrown at the problem? So when the team was scoring 30 points a game almost in the first four games the OL was a disaster? We lose to the two teams in last years AFC Championship game and the OL is a problem? To me it was poor game planning, no half time adjustments and poor overall play not just the line. As for the DL I have said this before not having Star is a big loss. He didn't show up on the stat sheet but he made/makes if easier for the other DL and our LBs. If I were Beane I'd call his pal Gettleman and trade for Dalvin Tomlinson like Ryan Talbot from Syracuse.com suggested. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 43 minutes ago, Greg S said: I just hope Terry and Kim don't get involved in the football decisions. As an Angel fan trust me you don't want that to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 It's pretty easy to see that both Beane AND McDermott both have a lot of say. They work together. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustWinPlease Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 44 minutes ago, Greg S said: I just hope Terry and Kim don't get involved in the football decisions. They don't get involved in football or hockey decisions, contrary to popular belief. I don't think the Sabres pay $8M for the best free agent on the market, if the Pegulas are calling the shots. And I don't take Beane and McDermott as the kind of guys who would put up with the Pegulas sticking their nose in the football aspect of things. It's time this idea dies. They are the owners and nothing more. They hire people and let them do their jobs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I think the Boss Applesauce is McDermott. Of course they work in unison but as far as Im concerned the buck stops with McDermott making the final decisions when it comes right down to it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, BillsFanThru-N-Thru said: So when the team was scoring 30 points a game almost in the first four games the OL was a disaster? We lose to the two teams in last years AFC Championship game and the OL is a problem? To me it was poor game planning, no half time adjustments and poor overall play not just the line. As for the DL I have said this before not having Star is a big loss. He didn't show up on the stat sheet but he made/makes if easier for the other DL and our LBs. If I were Beane I'd call his pal Gettleman and trade for Dalvin Tomlinson like Ryan Talbot from Syracuse.com suggested. In terms of the running game, yes. There is no question they can pass block very well; they are very suspect in the ground game. The only question I have is it that way by design? Is the reason we have small shifty running backs so they can squeak through tight cracks? Was pass protection for Allen's development more important then a mauling ground and pound Oline? I'm not in the war room so I can only speculate, but the Oline is definitely sub par in run blocking. Edited October 21, 2020 by TwistofFate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Back the Blue said: I’m sure it is a closely guarded secret at OBD, but how much say do you think McD has in terms of personnel? I’m not talking about who starts and who sits, I’m referring to what players are signed, traded, and drafted, and which players either don’t make the 53 man roster, or in the case of Spain, cut loose in mid-season. Bottom line...how much blame goes to McD for the OL and DL disasters despite $$$ thrown at the problem? With the trade for Diggs, the attempted trade for Brown, and moving away from guys like Chris Ivory, Mike Tolbert, Pat DiMarco, Frank Gore, I am going to conclude that Beane is pushing more of the direction now, because McDermott came in talking about the physical run game/snowy weather. With that said, both Beane and McDermott are obsessed with ex-Panthers to their detriment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I believe it's a pretty even split aside from the business decisions a GM must make in terms of contracts. Ex, who can we pay and who can't we pay and what is their value in the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Tasker brought up a good comparison on One Bills Live today. He mentioned how, in 2018, the Bills let Richie Incognito go, but after the move Wood announced his retirement due to injury. He said at that late date, there was nothing Buffalo could do about it as they thought they were going to be set on the o line. This year, Buffalo makes the decisions it makes regarding Philips and Lawson. They bring in Jefferson and Butler figuring they'd be ample replacements...and then Star, a big piece of their D line, decides to opt out. In hindsight, would the team have made the decisions they made knowing there would be a huge loss in continuity? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 It's called McBeane for a reason. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 57 minutes ago, MJS said: It's pretty easy to see that both Beane AND McDermott both have a lot of say. They work together. I agree, and good partnerships are hard to beat. Either one, though, likely has the right to insist. Its just that they mostly don't and work out the best decision for the team. Neither one is in contract jepordy, so good decisions are easier by far. 2+2= more than 4 in this circumstance imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 I guess I’m wondering when things go south with a player(s), who is too blame? Accountability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msw2112 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I have no idea, but I do believe that these two are in synch and if something goes south, they both own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I think McDermott has been selling Beane on what he needs for defense, while Beane has been in charge of the offensive side of the ball more. I also think McDermott has thought he could get by with ‘less’ talent on D due to his scheme. This hasn’t been the case this year for a few reasons, one being opt outs and injuries. Starr and Gaines hurt depth at two critical spots. Not addressing LB better has been a huge issue. Klein was seen by McDermott I bet, as an acceptable Lorenzo replacement. This was a big whiff thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) I think... Beane (in consultation with McD) decides who to draft, what FAs to sign, who to trade away, and who to trade for. I think McD (in consultation with Beane) decides who to cut and who to keep. And he probably has a lot of say in the trade-away category. I think they deserve roughly equal credit for our 4 wins and equal blame for our 2 losses. Edited October 21, 2020 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I don't consider the O-line to be a huge issue. Both tackles are playing well, Mitch is a good center, and I think Ford at the guard position will pan out. Winters is a below average player but not a bad backup to have, Mongo should come back and help that guard situation. Yes they aren't run blocking well but they are protecting Josh and I think the issues with the run game are more so to do with how impactful Josh has been through the air and Mongo's absence. The D-line on the other hand has been a complete disaster I fully agree. Ironically Jefferson and Addison have done their parts for the most part. Its been Star's opt out, Hughes regressing with age, Harrison seemingly not being recovered from his injury, Murphy not being effective, Ed Oliver not progressing and AJ not having an impact due to the weird off-season are all big issues that are causing the defense to regress. I would overall say that the team needs to target a player like Delvin Tomlinson, he would bring solid size and strength up the middle and cap wise is cheap and draft capital wise wouldn't cost too much either. He would be a nice rental that the team could sign long term (would love to see Tomlinson and Star as the grinders, Oliver and Jefferson as the pass rushers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 It's not a closely guarded secret. In fact, it's out there publicly. McBeane controls the 52 man roster. He wanted that as a condition of joining the team. On the other hand, he's trying to give McDermott what he wants and needs to run his schema, so McDermott has a lot of input. But McBeane makes the decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 6 hours ago, LeGOATski said: It's a mutual decision. If they don't agree after discussing pros/cons/whateverelse then they don't do it or find an alternate solution. 6 hours ago, BigdaddyinOrlando said: These guys work in tandem and I believe all are involved and have respected opinions and thoughts It can't exclusively work this way. At some point, decisions are going to have to be made, they are not going to agree how to do it. The guy who decides what to do in that situation is the one with the power. It's a great question by the OP: I have been wondering about this myself ever since Beane came on board. My guess is McDermott is the boss in the relationship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: It can't exclusively work this way. At some point, decisions are going to have to be made, they are not going to agree how to do it. The guy who decides what to do in that situation is the one with the power. It's a great question by the OP: I have been wondering about this myself ever since Beane came on board. My guess is McDermott is the boss in the relationship. I think the same thing. McD was hired first. Beane brought in second. McD was extended, Beane has not been yet. They work in tandem, but I agree, McD is captain of this ship. That doesn’t mean Beane doesn’t have a sense of autonomy on certain things, FA’s, scouting, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: It can't exclusively work this way. At some point, decisions are going to have to be made, they are not going to agree how to do it. The guy who decides what to do in that situation is the one with the power. It's a great question by the OP: I have been wondering about this myself ever since Beane came on board. My guess is McDermott is the boss in the relationship. They talked about it in a video last offseason I think; McDermott and Beane hashing things out in a room between themselves and/or other concerned parties. There must be situations where one side "wins" but the only one with the official "final say" is Pegula, if it ever even came to that. I doubt either guy is ever pulling rank over the other. Each believes in the same process of coming to the logical conclusion as a leadership group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 19 hours ago, Back the Blue said: I’m sure it is a closely guarded secret at OBD, but how much say do you think McD has in terms of personnel? I’m not talking about who starts and who sits, I’m referring to what players are signed, traded, and drafted, and which players either don’t make the 53 man roster, or in the case of Spain, cut loose in mid-season. Bottom line...how much blame goes to McD for the OL and DL disasters despite $$$ thrown at the problem? From what they've both said, I think Beane makes the moves and that at times, he's made some in-season or close-to-season moves that took McDermott by surprise and McDermott didn't approve of Beane has also indicated he and his staff perform their own evaluation of the players on the Bills roster for negotiating contracts and evaluating what they're worth, as well as taking input from the coaches. So if his perception or evaluation of a guy differs from the coaches and he brings in a player he thinks is just as talented but that player is not...Oh Well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 14 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: It's not a closely guarded secret. In fact, it's out there publicly. McBeane controls the 52 man roster. He wanted that as a condition of joining the team. On the other hand, he's trying to give McDermott what he wants and needs to run his schema, so McDermott has a lot of input. But McBeane makes the decisions. Ok so which position does Beane control - Punter, place kicker or long snapper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 22 hours ago, Greg S said: I just hope Terry and Kim don't get involved in the football decisions. Croom's departure may indicate they're not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 18 hours ago, Mango said: I think the same thing. McD was hired first. Beane brought in second. McD was extended, Beane has not been yet. They work in tandem, but I agree, McD is captain of this ship. That doesn’t mean Beane doesn’t have a sense of autonomy on certain things, FA’s, scouting, etc. But someone changed along the way somewhere. Because when McDermott came to Buffalo he sounded like a Defensive Coordinator when talking about offense. He wanted a physical run game, he talked about Special Teams, controlling the line of scrimmage, snowy weather. Then 2017 happened, with the Watkins being traded, being left with Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Jordan Matthews, Deonte Thompson, Charles Clay, McCoy, Tolbert, Cadet. In 2018, then we draft Allen, and he is not effective as a rookie, with the following: Zay Jones again, Robert Foster, Benjamin, Andre Holmes, Jason Croom, McCoy, I think the FO at OBD made a decision. Because finally in 2019, the Bills tried at WR, bringing in Brown and Beasley, we finally moved off paying homage to McCoy's career. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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