Kamara, Cook and Kupp sign big extensions

[Kirby Jackson]

Looks like a good day to be a RB. Also, lol at people that think that “cap trouble” is a thing.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[Big C]

Seem like reasonable averages for stud backs but I would not prefer signing a back for that many years. Interested in seeing how the money is spread.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Insane to pay a RB. You can find a starter in first three rounds any year you want. 

[IgotBILLStopay]

Happy RBs got the money - it is such an injury prone position yet gets paid the least since the opportunity cost of going to a replacement is low.

 

That said, to be competitive - a team cannot really pay a RB 12-15 mill precisely for the opportunity cost reason. See Rams with Gurley and Jets with Bell. Jury still out on whether Elliott is worth the extension. McCaffrey is probably the single exception to the rule (he IS the face of that franchise now).

[SirAndrew]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Insane to pay a RB. You can find a starter in first three rounds any year you want. 

It’s going to look really stupid when Brees retires, and the team needs to invest in other areas. Kamara is very good, but he’s obviously not going to make up for the loss of Brees. If Brees were younger and he was locked in for years to come, I might be able to tolerate that deal for a RB. A team that won’t have a QB shouldn’t be doing that

 

Dalvin Cook is the Vikings offense in many ways, and Cousins could be there a while. I’m ok with a big contract for Cook, although it still goes against my rule of no big time contracts for backs. The situation in Minnesota seems more favorable to Cook being a necessity. They play good defense, and ball control offense with play action being a big part of their game. The Vikings have an identity that probably won’t change anytime soon. The Saints will need to find an entirely new identity when Brees retires soon. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by SirAndrew

[YoloinOhio]

To me while the RB position is somewhat devalued, in this case, they are just paying the best players on their offense 

Edited September 12, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[MJS]

14 minutes ago, Big C said:

Seem like reasonable averages for stud backs but I would not prefer signing a back for that many years. Interested in seeing how the money is spread.

That's a good point. It would make sense to sign running backs to shorter deals, but it takes two to tango. Running backs probably prefer the longer term deals because it offers more security. QB's should want short-term deals, especially if they are elite.

[TheElectricCompany]

I'm over the whole "DoNt PaY a RB" argument. Smart teams clearly value stars at that position. 

Kamara has shown he is a 1500+ yard, 10+ TD player. Who cares if he's getting $15M? A WR with those numbers will demand $20M+ 

Someday, the bill will come due for these teams, but they clearly don't give a damn.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[Logic]

21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Looks like a good day to be a RB. Also, lol at people that think that “cap trouble” is a thing.

 

 

 

Demarius Bilbo.

 

LOL

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

To me while the RB position is somewhat devalued in this case, they are just paying the best players on their offense 

 

Kamara is better than Michael Thomas? Not sure how you would even begin to make that case. Thomas might be an all-timer by the end of his career. 

 

Kamara is good but I don't see him on that level.

Edited September 12, 2020 by matter2003

[Virgil]

Add Kupp to the conversation 

 

 

[Victory Formation]

I think I’d pay a dual threat back top dollar.. but not simply a north south hammer.. if a guy is getting you 1k rushing and 1k receiving i think you pay those kinda backs.. 75-80 receptions on top of 1k rushing is hard to ignore....

[Lurker]

Welp.   Bilbo's bagg'n that cash...

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

Add Kupp to the conversation 

 

 

 

Rams are just determined to be in cap hell with no draft picks for years to come apparently.

[Virgil]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

 

Rams are just determined to be in cap hell with no draft picks for years to come apparently.

The way they spend makes zero sense to me.  They sign players like a high schooler playing Madden.  They just see ratings per player, with no regards to a big picture plan 

[TheElectricCompany]

Remember when the Chiefs had like $180 in cap space, and THEN signed Mahomes, Chris Jones and Travis Kelce? 

There is an art to manipulating the cap, and many championship contenders are doing it. 

 When we've got to pay our guys, we'll figure it out too. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[Big C]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

To me while the RB position is somewhat devalued in this case, they are just paying the best players on their offense 

 

Of course. Something to be said about paying your own - and maybe they can get out of these deals after 3 years easy - but the two teams in the Super Bowl this past year did damage with a revolving cast of backs. The Patriots never gave a huge deal to a back. The championship Eagles didn't. The other consistently good teams over the years (Steelers, Packers, etc) have not done it. It is just not good practice for a winning team. 

 

Not saying you can't win it all paying top dollar for a top back, but you're fighting statistics.

 

CMC might be the one exception to the rule right now but his team is in no position to go on a run.

[TBBills]

40 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Insane to pay a RB. You can find a starter in first three rounds any year you want. 

Dime a dozen!

[ColoradoBills]

20 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Remember when the Chiefs had like $180 in cap space, and THEN signed Mahomes, Chris Jones and Travis Kelce? 

There is an art to manipulating the cap, and many championship contenders are doing it. 

 When we've got to pay our guys, we'll figure it out too. 

 

I think the word manipulation is used way too much and it seems to infer some sort of "smoke and mirrors" techniques.

The Chiefs have preferred to sign a handful and a half of high dollar players followed by young players on rookie contracts

and cheaper players.  As of now it is working well but things are going to be tight for them starting next year.

 

As of now they are 14 million in the hole next year with only 34 players signed.  It will very tough to resign Sammy Watkins

and other UFAs.  KC will be one team I want to watch very closely to see how the handle the cap next offseason.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/2021/

Edited September 12, 2020 by ColoradoBills

[NoSaint]

30 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

I'm over the whole "DoNt PaY a RB" argument. Smart teams clearly value stars at that position. 

Kamara has shown he is a 1500+ yard, 10+ TD player. Who cares if he's getting $15M? A WR with those numbers will demand $20M+ 

Someday, the bill will come due for these teams, but they clearly don't give a damn.

 

 

There is very much the factor that a guy getting 13 per for 6 years is not getting “paid” relative to plenty of other positions. You look at contracts to Wrs and cbs this week and these backs were pretty modest 

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I think the word manipulation is used way too much and it seems to infer some sort of "smoke and mirrors" techniques.

The Chiefs have preferred to sign a handful and a half of high dollar players followed by young players on rookie contracts

and cheaper players.  As of now it is working well but things are going to be tight for them starting next year.

 

As of now they are 14 million in the hole next year with only 34 players signed.  It will very tough to resign Sammy Watkins

and other UFAs.  KC will be one team I want to watch very closely to see how the handle the cap next offseason.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/2021/

a luxury guy in Sammy Watkins will be replaced by mecole hardman as a high pick with a couple years under his belt. 

[DCofNC]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I think the word manipulation is used way too much and it seems to infer some sort of "smoke and mirrors" techniques.

The Chiefs have preferred to sign a handful and a half of high dollar players followed by young players on rookie contracts

and cheaper players.  As of now it is working well but things are going to be tight for them starting next year.

 

As of now they are 14 million in the hole next year with only 34 players signed.  It will very tough to resign Sammy Watkins

and other UFAs.  KC will be one team I want to watch very closely to see how the handle the cap next offseason.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/2021/

The Chiefs are headed down Andy Reid road, he’s done this before and lucky for them they got a championship before his brilliant stupidity hits.  He’s going to keep trying to outscore you with a great QBs and lots of speed, defense be damned.

[Big Turk]

22 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Remember when the Chiefs had like $180 in cap space, and THEN signed Mahomes, Chris Jones and Travis Kelce? 

There is an art to manipulating the cap, and many championship contenders are doing it. 

 When we've got to pay our guys, we'll figure it out too. 

 

There are always ways to kick the can down the road but eventually you have to pay the piper. Might not be for 6 or 7 years and in some cases ot might make sense to keep kicking it down the road.

[TheElectricCompany]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I think the word manipulation is used way too much and it seems to infer some sort of "smoke and mirrors" techniques.

The Chiefs have preferred to sign a handful and a half of high dollar players followed by young players on rookie contracts

and cheaper players.  As of now it is working well but things are going to be tight for them starting next year.

 

As of now they are 14 million in the hole next year with only 34 players signed.  It will very tough to resign Sammy Watkins

and other UFAs.  KC will be one team I want to watch very closely to see how the handle the cap next offseason.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/2021/

 

Good point - manipulation isn't exactly correct. I would say its a mix of 1.) resigning stars 2.) shedding bad deals 3.) restructuring existing contracts and 4.) expecting the cap to continue to rise. 

 

The Saints and Eagles are going to be interesting to me.  They are $65 million over for 2021, per Overthecap. 

 

[ChevyVanMiller]

Kamara, Cook and Kupp

 

Sounds like a team of personal injury attorneys.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

a luxury guy in Sammy Watkins will be replaced by mecole hardman as a high pick with a couple years under his belt. 

 

Yes and that's how they will have to go forward because of how they prefer to run their cap.

I'm not criticizing or praising their choice just pointing out it's how they want to do it.

 

2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

The Chiefs are headed down Andy Reid road, he’s done this before and lucky for them they got a championship before his brilliant stupidity hits.  He’s going to keep trying to outscore you with a great QBs and lots of speed, defense be damned.

 

Yes again and we have seen teams going down this road with varying results before.  It's what they are choosing to do because they only

have so much resources at their disposal.

 

2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

There are always ways to kick the can down the road but eventually you have to pay the piper. Might not be for 6 or 7 years and in some cases ot might make sense to keep kicking it down the road.

 

Yes again and again! It works out and is not a huge problem for some teams and for other teams it's disastrous!

[TheElectricCompany]

11 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

The Chiefs are headed down Andy Reid road, he’s done this before and lucky for them they got a championship before his brilliant stupidity hits.  He’s going to keep trying to outscore you with a great QBs and lots of speed, defense be damned.

 

Between Frank Clark, Chris Jones and Mathieu, they've got some big contracts on defense. 

At the least, their defense is "good enough", and in a few games, much more than that. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Yes and that's how they will have to go forward because of how they prefer to run their cap.

I'm not criticizing or praising their choice just pointing out it's how they want to do it.

 

 

Yes again and we have seen teams going down this road with varying results before.  It's what they are choosing to do because they only

have so much resources at their disposal.

 

 

Yes again and again! It works out and is not a huge problem for some teams and for other teams it's disastrous!

 

the answer on the split: do you have a franchise qb or did you pay a guy that looked good propped up by an overstocked roster?

 

if you have the qb you will see some updates and downs but generally be in the hunt always and a real contender when you string a few particularly good off seasons together.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Looks like a good day to be a RB. Also, lol at people that think that “cap trouble” is a thing.

 

 

Owners’ Liquid cash > salary cap 

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Good point - manipulation isn't exactly correct. I would say its a mix of 1.) resigning stars 2.) shedding bad deals 3.) restructuring existing contracts and 4.) expecting the cap to continue to rise. 

 

The Saints and Eagles are going to be interesting to me.  They are $65 million over for 2021, per Overthecap. 

 

 

First I will say that in a sense "restructuring" is a bit on manipulation but any of us that understand the cap know it comes with risk.

As for the bolded another phrase that is overused is "cap hell".  Most times this term is way over the top and was used a lot to describe the 

Bills a few years back which I thought was a hot take.  

 

BUT that being said Saints and Eagles are in cap hell next year and it is going to hurt.  How they get out of it will definitely be interesting!

[DCofNC]

1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Between Frank Clark, Chris Jones and Mathieu, they've got some big contracts on defense. 

At the least, their defense is "good enough", and in a few games, much more than that. 

Yes, he had the benefit of not paying the QB, and took advantage of it, but their D still sucked by and large, it’s going to be worse in the near future.

[Doc Brown]

It's become pretty clear over the years that you find a RB in the draft and then dump him when he wants his second contract.  I'm struggling to remember a Super Bowl winning team that had one of the highest paid running back in the league on their roster.  Lynch maybe?  Marshall Faulk before him.  I'm more on board with the Kamara signing as he's more of a dual weapons threat.  Given Cook's injury history the Vikings might regret this contract.

[Mr. WEO]

59 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Happy RBs got the money - it is such an injury prone position yet gets paid the least since the opportunity cost of going to a replacement is low.

 

That said, to be competitive - a team cannot really pay a RB 12-15 mill precisely for the opportunity cost reason. See Rams with Gurley and Jets with Bell. Jury still out on whether Elliott is worth the extension. McCaffrey is probably the single exception to the rule (he IS the face of that franchise now).

 

 

Paid the least?  You just listed 5 guys making 12.5 to 16+ million a year.  Kamara and Cook now join them.

[TheElectricCompany]

6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

First I will say that in a sense "restructuring" is a bit on manipulation but any of us that understand the cap know it comes with risk.

As for the bolded another phrase that is overused is "cap hell".  Most times this term is way over the top and was used a lot to describe the 

Bills a few years back which I thought was a hot take.  

 

BUT that being said Saints and Eagles are in cap hell next year and it is going to hurt.  How they get out of it will definitely be interesting!

 

Bills and Jags are great recent examples of teams that had massive dead cap hits or payrolls, but no sustained success. 

If you're contending for championships, like the Saints, owners will continue to sign big checks and trust the GM to figure it out. 

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

the answer on the split: do you have a franchise qb or did you pay a guy that looked good propped up by an overstocked roster?

 

if you have the qb you will see some updates and downs but generally be in the hunt always and a real contender when you string a few particularly good off seasons together.

 

Which is why teams with one of the few truly "elite" QBs are usually always in it to some degree.

The pursuit of one that doesn't pan out can cause your teams to flounder for years.

 

A typical GM only gets a shot or two to do it.  Turning this back to the Bills I feel as of now that Beane is showing promise to be a good GM so

even if it turned out the Allen could not keep lifting his ceiling and they had to move on Beane should get another swing.

That could cause a lot of negative replies but it's what I think. 

[Nextmanup]

Sounds like an accounting auditing firm:

 

KAMARA, COOK, and KUPP CONSULTING, INC.

 

"KCK" for short.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

25 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

The Chiefs are headed down Andy Reid road, he’s done this before and lucky for them they got a championship before his brilliant stupidity hits.  He’s going to keep trying to outscore you with a great QBs and lots of speed, defense be damned.

 

 

Defense looked pretty good crapping on the second best QB in the league" Thursday night

[Doc]

30 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

I think I’d pay a dual threat back top dollar.. but not simply a north south hammer.. if a guy is getting you 1k rushing and 1k receiving i think you pay those kinda backs.. 75-80 receptions on top of 1k rushing is hard to ignore....

 

Yup.  The problem for both is that last year was Cook's first as an ultra-productive dual threat (on-pace for almost 1,900 yards combined if he had played all 16 games) while Kamara's stats have been decreasing annually.  I'd have waited.

 

19 minutes ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Kamara, Cook and Kupp

 

Sounds like a team of personal injury attorneys.

 

My son (19 years old) named his fantasy football team 2 Gurleys, 1 Kupp.  I LOL'd.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Yup.  The problem for both is that last year was Cook's first as an ultra-productive dual threat (on-pace for almost 1,900 yards combined if he had played all 16 games) while Kamara's stats have been decreasing annually.  I'd have waited.

 

 

My son (19 years old) named his fantasy football team 2 Gurleys, 1 Kupp.  I LOL'd.

Lol. The team I played against was called The Fresh Prince of Helaire 

[Mr. K]

Im glad we've got McBeane at the helm. 

[ChevyVanMiller]

42 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yup.  The problem for both is that last year was Cook's first as an ultra-productive dual threat (on-pace for almost 1,900 yards combined if he had played all 16 games) while Kamara's stats have been decreasing annually.  I'd have waited.

 

 

My son (19 years old) named his fantasy football team 2 Gurleys, 1 Kupp.  I LOL'd.

Brilliant. (And don't google the video if you've not seen it 🤢)