A "Wildcat Strike" By The NFLPA Coming?

[BarleyNY]

4 minutes ago, Beast said:

Back to the point of this topic....I wonder what would happen, let’s say, if the NFLPA started boycotting games and fans that paid for the Sunday Ticket started a class action suit against the NFL/NFLPA/DirecTV to recoup money spent for a product that wasn’t delivered?

I’m guessing that people who paid for NFL Sunday Ticket would get a full or pro-rated refund probably without a lawsuit. 

[RyanC883]

11 hours ago, Jdragon2 said:

 

lol the percentage of "fans" who get riled up by these things isn't that high. I'd actually wager that the more fanatical "fans" on this site fall into that category. Therefore, the "need" to watch football. 

 

Additionally the players earn their money from the owners/league. The league earns the vast percentage of their revenue from TV deals. While I agree that tickets/merchandise is the other percentage; again....people will still watch and buy merch. Those "Fans" will not stop that from happening.

 

the "fans" are the ones watching on TV and buying merchandise.  

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

Back to the point of this topic....I wonder what would happen, let’s say, if the NFLPA started boycotting games and fans that paid for the Sunday Ticket started a class action suit against the NFL/NFLPA/DirecTV to recoup money spent for a product that wasn’t delivered?

 

they should.  

[Bferra13]

11 hours ago, Jdragon2 said:

 

lol, didnt you, or others with this same mindset, say the same thing about kneeling, allowing shoes to be designed by players, letting players voice their social justice concerns, and any other multitude of things that mean players have a brain and can think for themselves?

 

The league will be fine, but by all means boycott the league.... you need them far more then they need you. 

 

You got it the wrong way around buddy. No one needs the NFL. People need farmers, and soldiers, and everyday workers who make our economy work. NFL, nah, thats a luxury.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Bferra13

[RyanC883]

8 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

These athletes have an over inflated opinion of themselves.  Nothing they do in terms of sitting out games, antics during the national anthems, etc... will make a damn bit of difference. 

 

 

They want to make a difference? Sit down with inner city leaders, police commissioners, and elected officials and demand change and ask what they can do to help?   How often does this happen?   I’d guess not very often, if at all. 

 

I think the Bills might be one of the few teams that does this? 

[Beast]

8 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I’m guessing that people who paid for NFL Sunday Ticket would get a full or pro-rated refund probably without a lawsuit. 

If DirecTv/AT&T is feeling generous at the time.

 

But then they will want their money from the NFL. There will be lawsuits, guaranteed.

[BarleyNY]

5 minutes ago, Beast said:

If DirecTv/AT&T is feeling generous at the time.

 

But then they will want their money from the NFL. There will be lawsuits, guaranteed.

You don’t think that NFL broadcasting contracts actually require that games be played?  I do not think that I’m going out on a limb when I say that there’s a clause to that effect.  Also do you think that networks pay up front for all of the games in a season?  No games, no payment to the NFL from DirectTV.  They’d have no reason not to provide a refund to customers (less a modest transaction fee maybe). 

[Beast]

4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

You don’t think that NFL broadcasting contracts actually require that games be played?  I do not think that I’m going out on a limb when I say that there’s a clause to that effect.  Also do you think that networks pay up front for all of the games in a season?  No games, no payment to the NFL from DirectTV.  They’d have no reason not to provide a refund to customers (less a modest transaction fee maybe). 

Yeah, I would imagine networks do pay the NFL up front to broadcast the games. No matter what, someone is going to demand money back from the NFL if this wildcat strike happens.

[Nextmanup]

12 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

This will be the end of the NFL. Sad. Politics and Football don’t mix. Ego will ruined the league. 
 

 

 

Yeah right.

 

The NFL is a steamroller that can't be stopped.

 

They could botch up this entire season and you and everyone else would be lining up to give them your money next season, as per the norm.

 

 

[iinii]

12 hours ago, Jdragon2 said:

 

lol, didnt you, or others with this same mindset, say the same thing about kneeling, allowing shoes to be designed by players, letting players voice their social justice concerns, and any other multitude of things that mean players have a brain and can think for themselves?

 

The league will be fine, but by all means boycott the league.... you need them far more then they need you. 

You might need them more than they need you but not me. Thanks to the ineptitude of the Bills for most of this century, the Patriot dynasty and my watching my son grow up I have learned I don’t need them (the NFL) at all. I may want to watch them play but if I miss a game or two or ten it won’t matter. 

[Punching Bag]

Or NFLPA will as usual try to get in court what they could not on bargaining table.

[dorquemada]

10 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Yeah right.

 

The NFL is a steamroller that can't be stopped.

 

They could botch up this entire season and you and everyone else would be lining up to give them your money next season, as per the norm.

 

 

 

Maybe.  Also, maybe not.  The issue is, you don't have to alienate your entire audience.  There's a threshold under which all of a sudden advertisers are less interested and the giant tv contract becomes less so.  Nike stood with Kaepernick because their target demographic largely agreed with his antics.  Will Budweiser stay with the NFL if the people who drink Budweiser are watching in much smaller numbers?

 

Also, the owners will change their tune the second they feel it slipping away, just watch

[Chaos]

11 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I’m guessing that people who paid for NFL Sunday Ticket would get a full or pro-rated refund probably without a lawsuit. 

Why do you think that?

[nucci]

25 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Maybe.  Also, maybe not.  The issue is, you don't have to alienate your entire audience.  There's a threshold under which all of a sudden advertisers are less interested and the giant tv contract becomes less so.  Nike stood with Kaepernick because their target demographic largely agreed with his antics.  Will Budweiser stay with the NFL if the people who drink Budweiser are watching in much smaller numbers?

 

Also, the owners will change their tune the second they feel it slipping away, just watch

very possible , I just don't see it happening anytime soon. ABC wants to get back to Monday Night Football. Fox paid big money for Thursday. Right now it's still the best programming out there.

[K-9]

14 hours ago, Beast said:

Yeah, I would imagine networks do pay the NFL up front to broadcast the games. No matter what, someone is going to demand money back from the NFL if this wildcat strike happens.

Someone may demand a refund, but it won’t be any of the networks that pay billions a year for the broadcast rights; none of whom want to risk disfavor with the league in the next negotiations. There’s just too much long term future stake to risk on a short term loss. 

[TBBills]

On 9/2/2020 at 10:46 AM, H2o said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/09/02/nfl-seems-to-be-willing-to-accept-a-wildcat-strike-over-social-justice/#respond

 

So the NFLPA is talking about possibly sitting out a week at some point during the season, just like the NBA pulled their boycott, and apparently they have spoken with the NFL about it. 

Last thing we need is more people sitting out for no reason. Play the game you get paid to play.

[WickedGame]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:01 AM, Buffalo619 said:

This will be the end of the NFL. Sad. Politics and Football don’t mix. Ego will ruined the league. 
 

 

 

I’ll bite: Can you please post the list of what types of professionals are allowed to exercise their views and which aren’t? Doesn’t have to be a pie chart...maybe just two lists. Thanks. 
 

If you have the spare time, I’d also love a breakdown of what counts as “politics” and what counts as standing up for basic human dignity, justice, fairness, and equal protection under the law. Maybe in, like, a Venn diagram form. That’d be cool. 
 

I REALLY appreciate you deciding the rules on all this stuff. Helps a ton. 

[racketmaster]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:05 AM, Jdragon2 said:

 

lol, didnt you, or others with this same mindset, say the same thing about kneeling, allowing shoes to be designed by players, letting players voice their social justice concerns, and any other multitude of things that mean players have a brain and can think for themselves?

 

The league will be fine, but by all means boycott the league.... you need them far more then they need you. 

I need food, water and prefer to have shelter. The NFL and football is a want not a need but I would like to escape for a few hours and actually watch and concentrate on the game of football. Political opinions and social justice causes are abound and have gradually seeped into all aspects of our lives. If I want to watch and hear political opinions I’ll go to one of the multitude of cable news channels to do so. If I want social justice then I will join a cause or protest that I believe in. The NBA ratings have gone down in part because people want to see basketball being played and not be constantly hit over the head with social justice causes. As a fan I’m being lectured by athletes who too often know little about the cases and causes they are championing. Its sad but mixing sports and politics is the cool thing to do right now in order to be woke and everyone has to jump on board with the same thought or you are shunned, ie. Drew Brees. I’m a huge football fan but I am prepared to walk away from the game if the NFL decides to take the NBA model. I’m already going to be reducing my watching to the Bills and will see how things progress. 
 

And for the many of you who will say good riddance and just deal with it. I’ll ask you this, if the NFL began to push a anti abortion stance before and through its games then would it bother you? Or maybe some some environmental issue that you are not for? I happen to think it would not sit well with those who were on the opposing side. 
 

I’ll leave with this, sports are a pastime and distraction from a more complicated life. It is supposed to be where everyone in your community can come together no matter the background even for just 3 hours of time. Politics is poison right now and we are injecting it into the “safe spaces” that can bring an entire community together. 

[Beast]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Someone may demand a refund, but it won’t be any of the networks that pay billions a year for the broadcast rights; none of whom want to risk disfavor with the league in the next negotiations. There’s just too much long term future stake to risk on a short term loss. 

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

[K-9]

26 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

I need food, water and prefer to have shelter. The NFL and football is a want not a need but I would like to escape for a few hours and actually watch and concentrate on the game of football. Political opinions and social justice causes are abound and have gradually seeped into all aspects of our lives. If I want to watch and hear political opinions I’ll go to one of the multitude of cable news channels to do so. If I want social justice then I will join a cause or protest that I believe in. The NBA ratings have gone down in part because people want to see basketball being played and not be constantly hit over the head with social justice causes. As a fan I’m being lectured by athletes who too often know little about the cases and causes they are championing. Its sad but mixing sports and politics is the cool thing to do right now in order to be woke and everyone has to jump on board with the same thought or you are shunned, ie. Drew Brees. I’m a huge football fan but I am prepared to walk away from the game if the NFL decides to take the NBA model. I’m already going to be reducing my watching to the Bills and will see how things progress. 
 

And for the many of you who will say good riddance and just deal with it. I’ll ask you this, if the NFL began to push a anti abortion stance before and through its games then would it bother you? Or maybe some some environmental issue that you are not for? I happen to think it would not sit well with those who were on the opposing side. 
 

I’ll leave with this, sports are a pastime and distraction from a more complicated life. It is supposed to be where everyone in your community can come together no matter the background even for just 3 hours of time. Politics is poison right now and we are injecting it into the “safe spaces” that can bring an entire community together. 

Who would want to be on the opposing side of anti-racism messaging?

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Oh, I’m positive about that. The networks will never sue the owners to recover losses due to a player work stoppage. Indeed, there is language in the agreement that says owners still get paid by the networks, regardless.
 

The competition among the networks to secure broadcasting rights is just too intense. If FOX, CBS, NBC, ESPN, etc., sue to recover lost revenue from a canceled game or two , they will simply not be invited back to the table in the next negotiation. Besides, as I implied earlier, it makes no business sense to risk huge future stakes over several future seasons for the sake of attempting to recover the much smaller lost revenues during a short term stoppage. 

[Punching Bag]

If there is a one week stoppage with NFL involved likely it will be a week rescheduled later in season perhaps eliminating playoff bye week push playoffs one week later.  Pro-bowl would be moved post-Superbowl as it was before and as many fans have wanted.  TV networks will get as many games and more playoffs will be held during sweeps month which will be appealing to those wanting to sell ads at higher rates.

[ndirish1978]

Goodbye racism! The NBA pretty much almost ended racism already, so this should definitely finish it off.

[racketmaster]

25 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Who would want to be on the opposing side of anti-racism messaging?

If you want to simplify things, who would want to be on the side of killing innocent babies? Just as abortion can be a complex argument, so too is the BLM social justice messaging. Just about everyone in America is against racism so if that was what BLM actually stood for than it would not be an issue. 
 

The problem those on the other side of the BLM movement have is that it’s motives are much more than “ending systemic racism”  but moving America toward socialism and defunding the police. The narratives of the shootings that are held up as examples of blatant racism are also chalk full of missing facts and extenuating circumstances. There is no context and some career criminals are being glorified for committing crimes, resisting arrest and then being shot and wounded or killed most often after threatening the lives of the officers. What the media and BLM movement wants us all to believe is that officers showed up on the scene where an innocent black man was fully cooperative with police and then still mowed down because of the color of their skin. It is this narrative that gets perpetuated and the victims are celebrated as heroes. This rubs some people including myself the wrong way so it certainly is not as simple as who is for racism. 
 

What I am for is taking a break from the narratives and just watching some sports but we can’t even get that anymore. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Oh, I’m positive about that. The networks will never sue the owners to recover losses due to a player work stoppage. Indeed, there is language in the agreement that says owners still get paid by the networks, regardless.
 

The competition among the networks to secure broadcasting rights is just too intense. If FOX, CBS, NBC, ESPN, etc., sue to recover lost revenue from a canceled game or two , they will simply not be invited back to the table in the next negotiation. Besides, as I implied earlier, it makes no business sense to risk huge future stakes over several future seasons for the sake of attempting to recover the much smaller lost revenues during a short term stoppage. 

 

 

I didnt know that, next negotiations the networks are sure as hell going to consider this.

 

And the competition among the Networks have been intense TOO DATE but things change.  Who would have predicted the salary cap would decrease this year, very few, almost universally it was expected to keep going up.

 

Networks aren't stupid and aren't charities, if they perceive risk to a players stoppage you can bet anything they will adjust DOWN their bids.   You might want to also look at the profitability of the networks, not good.  Technology is rapidly evolving and changing the business model. 

 

 ESPN viewership is way down, and things arent getting any better. Since the return of basketball the  ratings have been in  a steady decline according to Forbes.  A recent Harris poll had 39% of respondents said they are watching fewer games, 32% said more and 28% about the same.  Of those watching less, 39% said the NBA has gotten too political, 19% because of the NBA-Chinese connection and 28% said it was boring without fans.

1 minute ago, racketmaster said:

If you want to simplify things, who would want to be on the side of killing innocent babies? Just as abortion can be a complex argument, so too is the BLM social justice messaging. Just about everyone in America is against racism so if that was what BLM actually stood for than it would not be an issue. 
 

The problem those on the other side of the BLM movement have is that it’s motives are much more than “ending systemic racism”  but moving America toward socialism and defunding the police. The narratives of the shootings that are held up as examples of blatant racism are also chalk full of missing facts and extenuating circumstances. There is no context and some career criminals are being glorified for committing crimes, resisting arrest and then being shot and wounded or killed most often after threatening the lives of the officers. What the media and BLM movement wants us all to believe is that officers showed up on the scene where an innocent black man was fully cooperative with police and then still mowed down because of the color of their skin. It is this narrative that gets perpetuated and the victims are celebrated as heroes. This rubs some people including myself the wrong way so it certainly is not as simple as who is for racism. 
 

What I am for is taking a break from the narratives and just watching some sports but we can’t even get that anymore. 

 

 

That is where I am at, sports is entertainment, if I want to hear about societal problems I will watch the news.

[Nester]

Why would they need to do that?

 

the NBA solved Racism by having millionaires take a single day off...

 

did you know that only 20% of NBA players are registers to vote? 
 

 

[ndirish1978]

I feel like people are conflating being against a wildcat strike with being against social justice. Skipping a week of football does nothing to solve any problem, it's just stroking the egos of millionaires to make them feel better. Anyone who wants to make a difference to any cause should donate and get involved in their community to band together and actually help solve issues. This is false activism and the only community it serves is the NFLPA so people can give them credit for being woke. 

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

If you want to simplify things, who would want to be on the side of killing innocent babies? Just as abortion can be a complex argument, so too is the BLM social justice messaging. Just about everyone in America is against racism so if that was what BLM actually stood for than it would not be an issue. 
 

The problem those on the other side of the BLM movement have is that it’s motives are much more than “ending systemic racism”  but moving America toward socialism and defunding the police. The narratives of the shootings that are held up as examples of blatant racism are also chalk full of missing facts and extenuating circumstances. There is no context and some career criminals are being glorified for committing crimes, resisting arrest and then being shot and wounded or killed most often after threatening the lives of the officers. What the media and BLM movement wants us all to believe is that officers showed up on the scene where an innocent black man was fully cooperative with police and then still mowed down because of the color of their skin. It is this narrative that gets perpetuated and the victims are celebrated as heroes. This rubs some people including myself the wrong way so it certainly is not as simple as who is for racism. 
 

What I am for is taking a break from the narratives and just watching some sports but we can’t even get that anymore. 

So, BLM, the organization, is the be all, end all authority on the issue of racism? BLM the organization and what it advocates are simply not the same as the more wide spread anti racist movement.  While the founders of the BLM organization may have coined the phrase, “black lives matter”, it has since come to be used by a much broader anti racist movement. 
 

I find the comparison to the abortion issue lacking on several levels, but I appreciate your response. 

[racketmaster]

30 minutes ago, K-9 said:

So, BLM, the organization, is the be all, end all authority on the issue of racism? BLM the organization and what it advocates are simply not the same as the more wide spread anti racist movement.  While the founders of the BLM organization may have coined the phrase, “black lives matter”, it has since come to be used by a much broader anti racist movement. 
 

I find the comparison to the abortion issue lacking on several levels, but I appreciate your response. 

I would hope that BLM is not the be all end all authority but at present they certainly have the loudest voice and have been found on the Bills stadium billboard and is talked about being shown on the field. My only point is that many including myself consider BLM a political organization and with that really has no place being on the field, billboards or uniforms. I have no issue with simple phrases like end racism or treat all peoples equals. They are just generic terms most everyone can get behind, like cure cancer. Also, when honoring specific victims of police violence, I’d prefer to honor persons that were innocent not those hyped up on substances and fighting and resisting police officers. And I’m not saying that they deserved to die, I’m just saying that I can pretty much guarantee you they would all be alive and well today had they not made a series of bad choices that are generally left out of the narratives when celebrating these individuals. Can’t we just find some real heroes that have been working to build bridges in their communities and better community police relations to honor? That’s something we can all get behind. 

[Saint Doug]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:05 AM, Jdragon2 said:

 

lol, didnt you, or others with this same mindset, say the same thing about kneeling, allowing shoes to be designed by players, letting players voice their social justice concerns, and any other multitude of things that mean players have a brain and can think for themselves?

 

The league will be fine, but by all means boycott the league.... you need them far more then they need you. 

You hit the nail on the head. When I learned the NFL was allowing players to design their own shoes, I couldn’t believe my ears and had to take a week off from work. I haven’t been to a game since. 

[Matt_In_NH]

what would happen if you boycotted working for your cause?

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, mattynh said:

what would happen if you boycotted working for your cause?

Depends on the employer.

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, mattynh said:

what would happen if you boycotted working for your cause?

 

What would happen if you tackled one of your coworkers?

[Matt_In_NH]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

What would happen if you tackled one of your coworkers?

 

When its part of the job description, nothing

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

What would happen if you tackled one of your coworkers?

 

NFL is different.  Players do things with recorded visual evidence which would be considered assault or assault with a weapon (i.e. Helmet, metal brace) off the field. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

Oh, I’m positive about that. The networks will never sue the owners to recover losses due to a player work stoppage. Indeed, there is language in the agreement that says owners still get paid by the networks, regardless.
 

The competition among the networks to secure broadcasting rights is just too intense. If FOX, CBS, NBC, ESPN, etc., sue to recover lost revenue from a canceled game or two , they will simply not be invited back to the table in the next negotiation. Besides, as I implied earlier, it makes no business sense to risk huge future stakes over several future seasons for the sake of attempting to recover the much smaller lost revenues during a short term stoppage. 

Language/provision for a player strike I guarantee is in every network/NFL contract, so no need for suing.

 

Plus the players aren’t “striking”.  The games will be played.   It’s a show/demonstration.  

[Rocbillsfan1]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:01 AM, Buffalo619 said:

This will be the end of the NFL. Sad. Politics and Football don’t mix. Ego will ruined the league. 
 

 

 

Sorry you’re so triggered. My thoughts and prayers etc lol. 

[Jobot]

On 9/2/2020 at 10:39 PM, Beast said:

I don’t mean to be an ass but all I can do is laugh at this line of thinking.

 

Anyone that thinks a law enforcement officer, when faced with the decision of using deadly force against a minority, or a non-minority, is going to be thinking what sort of effect this will have on what athletes may or may not do concerning playing games,...well, that isn’t going to happen because that will be one of the furthest things from his or her mind when making the decision to pull the trigger or not to.
 

About the only thing that can be done to prevent the death on an innocent person is to take firearms away from 800,000 officers in this country. 

 

All I'm saying is that delaying a scheduled game does nothing.  There's a lot of money that could be lost by networks that do have a voice in lobbying among politicians.  A full on strike by all black athletes could push this hand.. I can't say this for certain, but basically the single game postponing is laughable IMO

[C.Biscuit97]

18 hours ago, K-9 said:

Who would want to be on the opposing side of anti-racism messaging?

Yeah, I don’t really get what the opposite side of this is.  Pro racism?  And while I do get some of the I don’t want politics in sports argument (my ex’s dad was like that and he was just a great dude who was sick of all political bs), politics has always been a part of sports.

 

these guys have the highest platform to bring awareness to problems in their communities.  The easy thing for them is to not say a word and make millions of dollars.  

16 hours ago, mattynh said:

what would happen if you boycotted working for your cause?

I love it when people compare their occupations to a billionaire dollar industry where the workerS get to the top 1% of their profession solely based on merit.

[nucci]

16 hours ago, mattynh said:

what would happen if you boycotted working for your cause?

you can't compare your job to that of a professional athlete. You can be replaced much easier and company probably won't miss you. Seahawks won't cut Russell Wilson

[racketmaster]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, I don’t really get what the opposite side of this is.  Pro racism?  And while I do get some of the I don’t want politics in sports argument (my ex’s dad was like that and he was just a great dude who was sick of all political bs), politics has always been a part of sports.

 

these guys have the highest platform to bring awareness to problems in their communities.  The easy thing for them is to not say a word and make millions of dollars.  

I love it when people compare their occupations to a billionaire dollar industry where the workerS get to the top 1% of their profession solely based on merit.

I agree that athletes have a higher platform than most but with that also comes some greater responsibility and if they decide to speak out they should also be fully informed and not create unnecessary panic like LeBron continually stating any of the recent victims from police could be him. Umm, yeah it could be you LeBron if you decide to rob a store, get hyped up on drugs or alcohol and begin to resist arrest or actively fight with police when they arrive to arrest you. I’m not saying they deserved to die and in some of the situations the police could have done things better but I also find these hindsight arguments lack any context or perspective from the law enforcement side. Lets take the recent Atlanta shooting where all we saw in beginning was police shooting a black man in the back while he was running away with a taser gun that he was turning around to fire at officers. Ok, looks like they could have done something different and shooting seems needless. But then the full video and details come out and victim is wanted on warrant for violating probation, victim is clearly intoxicated and does not want to go back to jail, officers try talking with him to gain cooperation over a period of 15-20 minutes before they decide to try and place him in custody and victim goes full mma fight with the 2 officers throwing haymakers and managing to get the taser gun off one of the officers before running away and then turning back to shoot. There are a number of points in which this victim could have chose a different path but he kept making decisions that put him and the officers at risk. It is dark, after struggling with the victim and seeing him take off with a gun, the officer may have had enough. Anybody that has just been in a fight will tell you there is a little extra adrenaline running though you and maybe the officer overreacted on that adrenaline. This is a case that has a lot of nuance to it just like just about every single one of the high profile cases of late. I feel bad for all parties involved but the victim made a series of bad decisions and I have a hard time seeing the league celebrate he and others like Blake who was wanted on felony sexual assault for sexually assaulting a female for a second time. 
 

So, yes just about everybody is against racism and if the message from the NFL was “Treat everyone as equals”, “Let’s all come together as one” or some better phrases similar to that then we are all on board. But BLM phrases are political and socialist organizations that I don’t want to see promoted during a Bills game and the victims being celebrated I have a hard time celebrating because their backgrounds and actions show a lot of poor and criminal decisions (Taylor is a separate case but also very nuanced and she was tied closely to a wanted drug dealer-needless to say she was not murdered by police while sleeping in her bed but her case does raise serious questions about the no knock police raids and hopefully results in some changes there)