14 Positives on Marlins

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, teef said:

i don't think the choices are completely to shut down or limp along.  in ny we had a total shut down, had a phased opening period, and are still holding strong.  that's how it should be.  a lot has to do with how people were educated or how serious they took the initial shut down.  being in wny, most of us took it very seriously.  we played by the rules, wore and still wear masks, social distanced, etc.  my sister in law was in palm springs, and they were working on a completely different set of rules.  it was a big joke what was happening up north.  she was out on boats, kids hanging out with whom ever they wanted.  it was going to go away "once the weather became warm".  we saw that in a lot of other states as well.  well look were those states are now.  if people actually used their heads and played by the rules, we would not be in this position today.  

 

 

Well when I said I total shut down I basically meant something like what NY did, to me that was a total shut down excluding essential businesses. 

 

Heard an interesting interview a month or two ago from the governor of Conn. which kind of supports what you just stated.  He said that things worked and people listened in the NE as pretty much everyone either directly knew someone who had Covid, or they knew a health worker who told them first hand of conditions inside hospitals etc.  Maybe a similar thing will happen now in Florida and Texas once things have got real bad, will see.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The Onion weighs on on the topic

https://sports.theonion.com/mlb-announces-players-will-now-be-quarantined-for-14-da-1844520732

 

[Big Blitz]

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

The fact that you believe that hypothetical and vague scenario is a greater threat over quantifiable data of a thing that's actually happening right now is what's insane.

I've seen this stuff parroted all over the place for months by the predictable groups of people. Was it on AM radio or something? I somehow miss where you guys get your talking points, but I always know when you get a new one.

 

 

"Predictable groups of people?"

 

You mean Americans who were told this from the very beginning and are now currently victims of the biggest breach of trust in history? 

 

Yes we're those people and we remember the goal was never "no one gets the virus!"

 

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Big Blitz said:

 

 

"Predictable groups of people?"

 

You mean Americans who were told this from the very beginning and are now currently victims of the biggest breach of trust in history? 

 

No, I mean the type of people that will grasp at any alternative to reality based on strictly partisan lines. The types of people that never gave two ****s about suicide using it as a weapon to try to strawman their way through an argument.

[Saint Doug]

11 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

Really? The medical community or the medical community that got told to rewrite all the guidelines a couple weeks ago or just the medical community on the channel you watch.

You got a lot of up votes, but there was some veracity to what that guy posted. The American Academy of Pediatrics is on record for school reopening this fall. This is the organization that comes up with all guidelines pediatricians follow. They have no political stance, nor are they part of any form of the federal government. Although, their members are left-leaning.

 

https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2020/pediatricians-educators-and-superintendents-urge-a-safe-return-to-school-this-fall/

[4_kidd_4]

Hey guys! 

 

Oh, Baseball, huh? Alright!

 

Welp, see ya later!

[Big Blitz]

12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

No, I mean the type of people that will grasp at any alternative to reality based 

 

 

I don't know what this even means.  

[BullBuchanan]

16 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

I don't know what this even means.  

Clearly.

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

No, I mean the type of people that will grasp at any alternative to reality based on strictly partisan lines. The types of people that never gave two ****s about suicide using it as a weapon to try to strawman their way through an argument.

As opposed to those who only seem to care about COVID deaths while downplaying the tremendous side effects resulting from the lockdowns.... job loss, business closures, Suicide, drug overdose, domestic abuse, children falling behind in school etc etc etc.  

 

How come 90% of the COVID concern folks I encounter don’t seem to give a **** about any of that.   I know why... because it’s a distraction from what they want to focus on.  
 

COVID isn’t a hoax. It should be taken seriously.  We should wear masks and socially distance.  A limited lockdown was warranted. .....but we’re into some bs now and the self righteous are beyond transparent at this point. 

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

As opposed to those who only seem to care about COVID deaths while downplaying the tremendous side effects resulting from the lockdowns.... job loss, business closures, Suicide, drug overdose, domestic abuse, children falling behind in school etc etc etc.  

 

How come 90% of the COVID concern folks I encounter don’t seem to give a **** about any of that.   I know why... because it’s a distraction from what they want to focus on.  
 

COVID isn’t a hoax. It should be taken seriously.  We should wear masks and socially distance.  A limited lockdown was warranted. .....but we’re into some bs now and the self righteous are beyond transparent at this point. 

Because most of it is whataboutism. I think you'll find most of the folks ringing the bell about the pandemic have also been doing so about "job loss, business closures, Suicide, drug overdose, domestic abuse, children falling behind in school", for years. As we can agree, the pandemic is very real and is causing a lot of pain. We like to believe however that we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Those issues you cited were here long before the pandemic or not, and will be here afterwards. There are already people fighting the fight for them, and the Progressive platform is built around solving them as a society.

However, none of those things, none of them, matter if you're dead or severely disabled. That's why COVID has taken center stage. People act like business would not have been interrupted if we just allowed the entire country to get sick, and that's obviously not true. The simple answer is that if we would have put on our big boy pants and accepted responsibility like most of us were raised to, this would have been over in weeks, not months. Yet here we are.

I fully expect this to go on into 2021 as a result. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

Edited July 28, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[ALF]

I thought Canada was being too cautious  not allowing the Blue Jays to play there , looks like they were right.

[oldmanfan]

Not surprising.  I cannot see how pro sports can be played fairly right now.  Teams that lose players from infection will be at significant competitive disadvantage.

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Not surprising.  I cannot see how pro sports can be played fairly right now.  Teams that lose players from infection will be at significant competitive disadvantage.

Whats crazy (but understandable) is that most players will get sicker from the flu and just load up on meds and play.   However, most who get COVID will likely have mild symptoms and get sidelined for two weeks.  Again, understandable, but that’s where we’re at.  
 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by SCBills

[WEATHER DOT COM]

 

[ALF]

35 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

 

NFL should take note  only allow limited number of players in club house at once .  Playing that's a big problem that can't be mitigated.

[aristocrat]

22 hours ago, RiotAct said:

The protests definitely didn’t help, that’s for sure.  The public figures normalizing and encouraging the mass gatherings (while just having gotten finished lambasting the much smaller lockdown protests a month prior) was disgusting.

 

yeah havent people already tested positive for it again recently after having it in March/April?

 

so hoping these guys are all ok but have we heard if they are showing symptoms?  they could be guinea pigs for herd immunity although i doubt that was their plan.  seeing how their team reacts to this going forward could give us a good look at the fall. 

[aristocrat]

no phillies player has tested pos so far so that is some good news and it would be interesting to see if lends to the theory that perhaps asymptomatic people aren't spreaders?  that would be very good news. 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

3 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

the theory that perhaps asymptomatic people aren't spreaders

 

Whose theory is this?

[aristocrat]

5 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Whose theory is this?

 

it's something they have found but not proven.  the idea is that only certain people are spreaders but that they are super spreaders.  you'll find 9 out of 10 people don't spread it but that one person spreads it like wild fire.   but like i said nothing proven but lets hope that turns out to be the case. 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

11 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

it's something they have found but not proven.  the idea is that only certain people are spreaders but that they are super spreaders.  you'll find 9 out of 10 people don't spread it but that one person spreads it like wild fire.   but like i said nothing proven but lets hope that turns out to be the case. 

 

Again - whose theory is it? Something "they" found but not proven. Who are "they?"

[That's No Moon]

12 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

You got a lot of up votes, but there was some veracity to what that guy posted. The American Academy of Pediatrics is on record for school reopening this fall. This is the organization that comes up with all guidelines pediatricians follow. They have no political stance, nor are they part of any form of the federal government. Although, their members are left-leaning.

 

https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2020/pediatricians-educators-and-superintendents-urge-a-safe-return-to-school-this-fall/

The key word here is safe return and "the medical community" is not advocating for all schools just to open and have kids there 5 days a week in all circumstances.  Here's a quote from that link and this is where the problem comes in.

 

"Local school leaders, public health experts, educators and parents must be at the center of decisions about how and when to reopen schools, taking into account the spread of COVID-19 in their communities and the capacities of school districts to adapt safety protocols to make in-person learning safe and feasible. For instance, schools in areas with high levels of COVID-19 community spread should not be compelled to reopen against the judgment of local experts.  A one-size-fits-all approach is not appropriate for return to school decisions.

 

Reopening schools in a way that maximizes safety, learning, and the well-being of children, teachers, and staff will clearly require substantial new investments in our schools and campuses."

 

I'm not saying schools shouldn't re-open or that there aren't substantial benefits to kids in having the buildings open.  Clearly there are.  What I'm saying is that the guidance that exists does not work in so many circumstances that it is virtually useless.  There has been no substantial investment in the campuses. There is no way to distance people safely in the structures that many districts have. There are 930 students in the building I work in.  My class sizes range from 30-38.  The kids sit on top of one another.  There is no place to spread them out. There are no unused classrooms in our building there is no money to procure trailers to add additional classrooms and definitely no money to add staff to teach in those classrooms.  So we then start talking about staggering schedules.  OK, well if a kid is in school twice a week and home the other three, or whatever break out you want, you haven't solved the core reason why so many people want the buildings open, so the parents can go back to work.  So what you will have still is a situation where parents either need to be home for kids who are too young to watch themselves, leave the kids home alone, or try to find some sort of day care option that A. has space, B. they can afford, and C. will accept a kid for a select number of days per week.  

 

Here's another example of how the guidance doesn't work.  The most recent thing I've heard is to have kids in self-contained pods with one teacher.  Well, that works for elementary school just fine.  That doesn't work in high school.  The teacher who teaches 11th grade English isn't qualified to teach calculus.  They aren't certified to do so, they don't have the expertise to do so, and it's not something you can quickly pick up in 3 weeks to be able to do.  So either the kids or the teachers need to move.  Again working on this pod idea. It is virtually impossible to create a pod of kids at the high school level who are all in the same level of classes across the board.  So again, you are either moving the kids around so they can get what they need or you are moving the teachers around.  There isn't a way to do that sort of thing at that level.  My school is a middle school so it's a bit of all of these issues.  The 6th graders are too young to manage themselves at home, everyone moves to different classes and has different levels, you have many teachers who aren't cross trained to teach everything (I am certified to teach every subject and Spec Ed. I'm the only one in my building like that). So how do you do this in a way that achieves people's goals and yet is still safeish.

 

There are simple problems that I still haven't heard an answer to such as transportation.  How do you socially distance on a bus?  In order to follow guidelines kids would have to be no more than one to a seat.  That cuts your capacity in at least half and younger kids often sit 3 to a seat.  There isn't a pool of empty buses (or people to drive them) just sitting around.  Staggering schedules might address some of that but then you get into the other issues I mentioned as well as a host more.  I work with our transportation company pretty closely coordinating sports buses and I can tell you that they don't have enough drivers in a regular year and a lot of the drivers they have are older people.  That is going to be a disaster. 

 

Substitute teachers are similar.  Lots are retired teachers.  You can't compel them to take assignments, they are able to pick and choose where, when, and if they want to work.  I'm expecting MANY of them not to be working this year.  So when you have a teacher get sick there isn't going to be a replacement.  Again, we have trouble getting subs in a regular year.  If we have more than 5 people out in a day normally the additional spots don't get filled.  On a Monday or a Friday in the winter it's more like 3 and we can have 10-15 people out sometimes in a regular year. When that happens, and the spots don't get picked up, administrators teach class and/or we consolidate classes into the gym or the auditorium and do what we need to do to get through the day.  Well, if you are distancing you can't consolidate classes like that so what do you do?  We only have 3 administrators.

 

 

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Again - whose theory is it? Something "they" found but not proven. Who are "they?"

 

the WHO.  go look it up.  Again, I'd like to be very clear it isn't proven but there is some thought behind it.  

[billsfan89]

12 hours ago, SCBills said:

As opposed to those who only seem to care about COVID deaths while downplaying the tremendous side effects resulting from the lockdowns.... job loss, business closures, Suicide, drug overdose, domestic abuse, children falling behind in school etc etc etc.  

 

How come 90% of the COVID concern folks I encounter don’t seem to give a **** about any of that.   I know why... because it’s a distraction from what they want to focus on.  
 

COVID isn’t a hoax. It should be taken seriously.  We should wear masks and socially distance.  A limited lockdown was warranted. .....but we’re into some bs now and the self righteous are beyond transparent at this point. 

 

My mother had Covid back in March and she hasn't had the same level of energy to do anything since. Many reports show lung and respiratory damage from Covid similar to those who have had heart attacks have heart damage. I think looking only at deaths could be seriously misleading.

 

We already are at 150k dead with no end in sight but we are piling up over 1% of the population testing positive and potentially getting long term health consequences. 

 

People act like you can choose between Covid safety and the economy. As though you could choose the economy over Covid. You know what isn't good for the economy? 6 figures worth of people dead (thus no longer spending money) and millions of people (if not tens of millions of people) having possible long term health issues brought on by having Covid.

 

We could have found a way to save the economy by having a rent/mortgage freeze and a UBI over massive corporate bailouts but we ***** this up and not only didn't handle the virus but scared the economy short and long term.

[cd1]

20 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You are dead right about the first piece. Republicans would have been absolutely terrible situation reversed. 

 

That said, Trump didn't call it a hoax. I feel like that has been fact-checked enough that people shouldn't still be making that claim. 

 

Close enough - 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by cd1

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

 

the WHO.  go look it up.  Again, I'd like to be very clear it isn't proven but there is some thought behind it.  

 

He would rather not read any science and just judge your comments.

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

 

the WHO.  go look it up.  Again, I'd like to be very clear it isn't proven but there is some thought behind it.  

 

The only thought behind it is that someone with the WHO came out and said it with absolutely nothing to back it up.   Other thoughts say that nearly half of all infections were spread by asymptomatic people.  

 

It's irresponsible to just state something as fact when it's not even close to being factual.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/09/who-comments-asymptomatic-spread-covid-19/

 

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

He would rather not read any science and just judge your comments.

 

Is there really any "science" behind something that even aristo clearly describes as "isn't proven" and merely "some thought behind it"?

 

There could be lots of "thoughts". Just because some people come up with a theoretical idea doesn't mean there is anything behind it. Especially when even those people are saying nothing has been proven.

 

Do not mistake "having thoughts" for "intelligence and science".

[aristocrat]

10 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

The only thought behind it is that someone with the WHO came out and said it with absolutely nothing to back it up.   Other thoughts say that nearly half of all infections were spread by asymptomatic people.  

 

It's irresponsible to just state something as fact when it's not even close to being factual.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/09/who-comments-asymptomatic-spread-covid-19/

 

 

https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/resources/covid-19-faqs-for-health-professionals.html#:~:text=asymptomatic transmission may occur and,than individuals with symptoms.

 

less likely, limited spread.  i nowhere stated in any way that it was fact. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I just read 4 more 

 

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Miami+Marlins+new+cases&filters=tnTID%3a"7176DC35-C5FA-4a64-9CCF-5A54DB193BC7"+tnVersion%3a"3632251"+Segment%3a"popularnow.carousel"+tnCol%3a"1"+tnOrder%3a"26b6bd77-76e6-4106-b32e-927a9c23f550"&efirst=1&form=HPNN01

 

 

[aristocrat]

we landed on the moon

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

I just read 4 more 

 

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Miami+Marlins+new+cases&filters=tnTID%3a"7176DC35-C5FA-4a64-9CCF-5A54DB193BC7"+tnVersion%3a"3632251"+Segment%3a"popularnow.carousel"+tnCol%3a"1"+tnOrder%3a"26b6bd77-76e6-4106-b32e-927a9c23f550"&efirst=1&form=HPNN01

 

 

This is very depressing news.

 

It only takes 1 team with a serious outbreak to throw a monkey wrench in the whole league when it comes to scheduling.

 

Piss poor state management of Covid 19 in certain states is going to throw a monkey wrench in anything trying to be accomplished Nationally.

 

Sigh... 

[BullBuchanan]

20 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

Okay sir!!! I will deliver what you asked for right now sir!!! 

Now show me what i ask for..show me all states with declining case counts over the last 3 weeks and whether they are mask vs non mask states. You will find zero linkage, guarantreed. 

Well here's the states with graphs of cases, but you have to assume that that most states effectively do not have mask orders, as it's not being enforced. If only some of the people use masks some of the time, it's completely pointless. You need a majority doing it a majority of the time.

https://www.endcoronavirus.org/states

[The Frankish Reich]

The larger problem is that there's things we think we know to be true, but they aren't backed up by the kind of studies we'd like to see. This is just too new. But there's a growing consensus around certain best practices. Outdoors is far better than indoors. Creating a "bubble" is very effective. Travel is dangerous. How do these fit within our major sports leagues?

1. Best: NBA, Women's Soccer. The "bubble" model. Travel exponentially increases the likelihood of exposure/infection. It is not perfect, but so far it appears to present an acceptable level of risk for participants, and a reasonably good likelihood that a revised "season" may be both started AND finished. Let's say 80%.

2. Better: NHL. Not exactly a bubble, but travel is restricted -- the only team travel that will happen is when we hit the Stanley Cup finals. There's good reason to believe that the indoor climate of hockey -- cool temps, on ice -- is conducive to spread (see the meat packing plant outbreaks). So that's another worry. It will be an interesting experiment, but I think it's more likely than not that the tournament can be started AND finished. Let's say 65%.

3. Not so good: MLB. We already have a very significant outbreak, so far confined to one team. But ... way too much travel, and traveling parties are large (30 man rosters now, plus all kinds of affiliated coaches and personnel). Teams typically traveling 2-3 times/week. The good thing is that baseball is about as solitary a game itself as any team sport -- really only the hitter/catcher/homeplate ump (and for extended times only the latter two) are in close contact for any extended time on the field. And most of this is outdoors (even empty domed stadiums don't seem likely to present the risks we see even in air conditioned office buildings). But I'm skeptical they'll get anything resembling their plan completed. I am assuming, at a minimum, another shutdown/restart. Chances of finishing the season (with such a restart)? Let's say 50%.

4. NFL. Terrible. Part of it is just the nature of the game. Players in extremely close proximity while the game is in progress. There may be face shields, etc., but whether they're effective remains to be seen. Huge teams/traveling parties. Weekly travel. No bubble or quasi-bubble. (Q. Why not? At least at the start of the year?). Chances that the season starts, that we get in substantially the full schedule (even assuming a 2 or 3 week shutdown) AND finish the playoffs/Super Bowl? I'd say unlikely. Let's call it 35%.

Edited July 28, 2020 by The Frankish Reich

[BullBuchanan]

36 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Is there really any "science" behind something that even aristo clearly describes as "isn't proven" and merely "some thought behind it"?

 

There could be lots of "thoughts". Just because some people come up with a theoretical idea doesn't mean there is anything behind it. Especially when even those people are saying nothing has been proven.

 

Do not mistake "having thoughts" for "intelligence and science".

Right. Not every thought that a scientist has is science. Hell, I even saw a pretty sketchy publication of a 5G/COVID article and everyone was screaming "SEE!?", not knowing that getting published is basically step 1 of scientific veracity. You check the associations and it's an online university in Italy founded in 2004. So...

[Billl]

51 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/resources/covid-19-faqs-for-health-professionals.html#:~:text=asymptomatic transmission may occur and,than individuals with symptoms.

 

less likely, limited spread.  i nowhere stated in any way that it was fact. 

Then why even bring it up?  It’s about a half step above injecting bleach and shoving a light bulb up your ass and adds nothing to the conversation.  The only reference to the spread as it relates to asymptomatic transmission in the article you linked is COVID-19 may also be spread by people who are not showing symptoms (i.e., “asymptomatic”). According to the CDC, 35% of all people with COVID-19 are asymptomatic. However, those individuals are still as infectious as people with symptoms.  
 

 

[MAJBobby]

This is interesting to me, how can the league just "pause" a teams season.  Do that mean every game scheduled will be moved, or every game they cannot play they forfeit? 

[aristocrat]

20 minutes ago, Billl said:

Then why even bring it up?  It’s about a half step above injecting bleach and shoving a light bulb up your ass and adds nothing to the conversation.  The only reference to the spread as it relates to asymptomatic transmission in the article you linked is COVID-19 may also be spread by people who are not showing symptoms (i.e., “asymptomatic”). According to the CDC, 35% of all people with COVID-19 are asymptomatic. However, those individuals are still as infectious as people with symptoms.  
 

 

 

why not bring it up?  it's no different than gugs saying nearly all people who are asymptomatic spread the disease right?  but you haven't called him out on that have you?   because they have found asymptomatic people aren't spreading that doesn't mean it doesn;t exist, or you dont have to wear a mask or anything.   

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

This is very depressing news.

 

It only takes 1 team with a serious outbreak to throw a monkey wrench in the whole league when it comes to scheduling.

 

Piss poor state management of Covid 19 in certain states is going to throw a monkey wrench in anything trying to be accomplished Nationally.

 

Sigh... 

 

 

my 2 cents.  If you can't control your Professional players.   You forfeit games. 

 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

22 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

it's no different than gugs saying nearly all people who are asymptomatic spread the disease right

 

It's much different but whatever. You've got your mind made up it seems.

[DrDawkinstein]

36 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

This is interesting to me, how can the league just "pause" a teams season.  Do that mean every game scheduled will be moved, or every game they cannot play they forfeit? 

 

Because the leagues arent focused or worried about which team wins a championship, or if there even is a championship. They are just trying to capture as much revenue as possible. If they need to cut out a few teams, but still have some teams playing and generating revenue, they're gonna do it.