Does the NFL have a bubble plan? Covid rising

[Ramza86]

We are getting closer to actual sports.....teammates are practicing with each other..lots of opportunity to get Covid. Do they have a real plan in place to keep the NFL covid free before camp/preseason? Nobody wants a key player to test positive the day before camp.

 

I think the NBA has the right idea by locking everyone in Orlando. Get tested...if you are clear you can live in the bubble and cannot leave. 

[Doc]

Testing, sequestration and punishment for failing to abide by the rules.  And the NBA allows you to leave...but you have to quarantine for 2 weeks after you return.

[All_Pro_Bills]

49 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

We are getting closer to actual sports.....teammates are practicing with each other..lots of opportunity to get Covid. Do they have a real plan in place to keep the NFL covid free before camp/preseason? Nobody wants a key player to test positive the day before camp.

 

I think the NBA has the right idea by locking everyone in Orlando. Get tested...if you are clear you can live in the bubble and cannot leave. 

The NBA roster size is small compared to an NFL training camp roster of some 90 players.  So any plan is more manageable.   The NFL plan should include developing a detailed understanding of current treatment and testing options and what treatment and testing options are expected to be available by September.   This and developing a customized and personal risk assessment for each player, coach, training staff, and other team personnel.  So they can understand each person's specific risks of getting infected and the potential for serious illness since not everyone is going to feel sick and very few will have a high chance of dying. 

[Marv's Neighbor]

It's hermetically sealed in Roger's basement.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

It seems pretty clear that no one has a clear plan at this time.  Not at local or federal level.  Just a giant display of ineptitude. 

As far as the sports leagues go...I wouldn't say ineptitude....maybe a bit too much optimism......planning for  the best case scenario (or at least hoping for it and integrating it into the plans.)  Heres the thing, they want to play, they want to make money....so they have to plan for that based on the current conditions and then make adjustments around it.

 

They would much rather plan for a scenario with a bit of caution that makes them the most money and adjust on the fly if need be.......rather than plan for a scenario that doesn't make them as much money.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Ramza86 said:

We are getting closer to actual sports.....teammates are practicing with each other..lots of opportunity to get Covid. Do they have a real plan in place to keep the NFL covid free before camp/preseason? Nobody wants a key player to test positive the day before camp.

 

I think the NBA has the right idea by locking everyone in Orlando. Get tested...if you are clear you can live in the bubble and cannot leave. 

good luck enforcing that bubble with a bunch of 20 year old millionaires. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

It seems pretty clear that no one has a clear plan at this time.  Not at local or federal level.  Just a giant display of ineptitude. 

I would agree. I think the premise of a sport (NBA) using a bubble technique makes the most sense for both safety and a completion of a season. But as we have heard, people inside this bubble serving the players will be leaving the bubble. There's really no way to 100% ensure no one gets infected. When this fall hits you'll have covid rising again mixed in with influenza A & B. Good luck trying to getting college football players cooperating with any bubble plan. Or keeping NFL players from going out. This challenge of playing football will be daunting. Players will pop up positive. Sure rosters and practice squads will be drastically expanded. You just can't bubble football. It's not realistic. And for this same reason puts it at most risk.

[PetermansRedemption]

I think of all sports, it would be the most difficult to implement this plan in football. You have a roster of 50+, a practice squad, a coach for every position, assistant coaches at every position, twenty people on the cameras, sound men, photographers, color commentaries, statisticians, etc, etc. I really can’t even fathom how many people each game would need. Probably around 500? There isn’t a bubble big enough for 32 NFL teams to remain in. 

17 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

good luck enforcing that bubble with a bunch of 20 year old millionaires. 

This too, if the NFL tried to put in any penalties with teeth the NFLPA would never approve it. 

[Augie]

There is no Magic Plan. There can be precautions, but the virus is going to do what the virus wants to do until we have more effective treatments or a vaccine. The NBA can try their bubble approach, but nobody is “safe” and I’m skeptical. That’s virtually impossible in football, college or pro, and I’m very, VERY concerned about this season. 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

There is no Magic Plan. There can be precautions, but the virus is going to do what the virus wants to do until we have more effective treatments or a vaccine. The NBA can try their bubble approach, but nobody is “safe” and I’m skeptical. That’s virtually impossible in football, college or pro, and I’m very, VERY concerned about this season. 

I’m not even concerned at this point.  I just don’t see how it’s possible.  I think they’ll give it a go and shut it down before the week 1 due to too many cases.  
 

The only thing that I fear is that we lose a year of our current player contracts.  We have so many young and productive players playing in their rookie contracts that losing a year of contracts will hurt us more than most teams.  

[jethro_tull]

One thing to understand is that most of the media are not doing a good job at reporting information that is qualified to be meaningful to us.  

For example it seems daunting when there is a rise in confirmed cases- but we need to understand is that more people are being tested than ever before and the new case numbers are not a good indicator on what actions are needed.  

 

The best indicator IMHO are the rate of new fatalities.  This number is fairly consistently tracked and would show a trend of the actual cases both confirmed and unconfirmed.  

 

For example, the US 14 day trend is + 32% new cases, but down 31% in new deaths.  That is a big deal and a very encouraging sign.  

 

[EDIT: I'd like to ask you folks to redirect general covid discussion to the covid-19 threads in OTW or in PPP.  Thanks.  And the stat you're looking for for "new case numbers being a good indicator on what actions are needed" is % positive cases.  When the mere number of positive cases rises, it may be a result of more testing.  When the % positive tests rises, more people are getting infected. 

For Example from the NY Forward Dashboard we can see that the number of tests is rising, but the % positive is falling:

By contrast, for Arizona, we see that testing is going up but positive cases are going up faster, leading to an increase in % positive tests.  That wasn't true for a while in late April (testing went up, while % positive went down) but that changed.

There's typically about a 4-6 week lag in deaths, so they aren't a good indicator.  Discuss more with ya over in the covid-19 threads, 'K?

[H2o]

Has anyone seen where one of these athletes has really struggled with the virus? All I have seen is so-and-so tested positive and then they are basically Covid free after a few days. It was the same with Sean Payton. He said in a couple of days or so he was back to normal. I know it affects everyone different, but I haven't seen where any of these athletes have been knocked down by it. 

[GottaRun]

My buddy is a top audio mixer for live NHL broadcasts in Canada (Dome/Rogers/CBC).  If he was to work in a hub city he would have to be in full isolation with the players. 

 

Once you enter you stay, if you leave you don't come back.  It's not just isolated hotels, it isolated restaurants, food services, etc...  If you have access to the players you are in the bubble.

 

They've spent the down time working on a plan to do everything remotely, so some support staff can have a life outside of the sport.  These sports reach so far beyond just the players, there's a hell of a lot of people that would have to be in isolation to make the NFL work inside a bubble.

[mannc]

 

On 6/23/2020 at 11:44 AM, H2o said:

Has anyone seen where one of these athletes has really struggled with the virus? All I have seen is so-and-so tested positive and then they are basically Covid free after a few days. It was the same with Sean Payton. He said in a couple of days or so he was back to normal. I know it affects everyone different, but I haven't seen where any of these athletes have been knocked down by it. 

Thank you.  These athletes (and their coaches) are at far greater risk of dying in an auto accident on their way to practice.  

Edited June 26, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan
General covid-19 discussion to the covid-19 threads please

[Jamie Nails]

29 minutes ago, kdub said:

 

No it is not a "very encouraging sign". Take a look at these maps (from nytimes): Note the delay between the rise in hospitalizations and deaths, about 2-3 weeks.  IF deaths continue to go down after 2-3 weeks have past (actually like 1-2 weeks since we started going up a week ago), then it will be an encouraging sign.

 

The statistical deviation in cases resulting in deaths has already occurred. The new cases may result in hospitalizations, but ICU and deaths have deviated and stable and continuing to decrease as 1) younger, less vulnerable populations catch the virus and 2) treatment and therapeutics improve. The "wait two weeks"  and "death is a lagging indicator" statements are not as valid as they once were.  

[Warren Zevon]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

Has anyone seen where one of these athletes has really struggled with the virus? All I have seen is so-and-so tested positive and then they are basically Covid free after a few days. It was the same with Sean Payton. He said in a couple of days or so he was back to normal. I know it affects everyone different, but I haven't seen where any of these athletes have been knocked down by it. 

 

Figure any football player who gets the virus will miss 3 weeks of games. That's a lot of players missing a lot of games - plus every other injury.

[Jamie Nails]

3 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said:

 

Figure any football player who gets the virus will miss 3 weeks of games. That's a lot of players missing a lot of games - plus every other injury.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if some athletes "try" to get it before the season to avoid missing time.  

[boater]

COVID is declining nation wide, not rising. Yes, there are some hot spots like FL and AZ.

 

Daily COVID-19 Deaths in the U.S. Have Fallen Dramatically Since April

[iinii]

45 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said:

 

Figure any football player who gets the virus will miss 3 weeks of games. That's a lot of players missing a lot of games - plus every other injury.

Yeah and imagine a position group getting hit at the same time. Now you have the DLine  out for three games as a group.

[iinii]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

Has anyone seen where one of these athletes has really struggled with the virus? All I have seen is so-and-so tested positive and then they are basically Covid free after a few days. It was the same with Sean Payton. He said in a couple of days or so he was back to normal. I know it affects everyone different, but I haven't seen where any of these athletes have been knocked down by it. 

Just like the draft, all it takes is one. One team falls in love with a player and you have yourself a nice payday. One player dies who has an underlying condition and........the other 3000 are going to be like......

[Augie]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I’m not even concerned at this point.  I just don’t see how it’s possible.  I think they’ll give it a go and shut it down before the week 1 due to too many cases.  
 

The only thing that I fear is that we lose a year of our current player contracts.  We have so many young and productive players playing in their rookie contracts that losing a year of contracts will hurt us more than most teams.  

 

I try to have some glimmer of hope, but I think I’m mostly just fooling myself. What happens when a team’s DB room gets infected, and another teams OL room gets wiped out. What happens if/when Andy Reid or Belichick gets it? The first coach is hospitalized? It seems inevitable. 

 

I say all that to wonder this: how does this affect players and their contracts? Do they get a year of service if we play some, then pull the plug? How much would we have to play?  How about if it’s apparent that it’s not feasible during camp with a wave of infections and we play zero games? How is this addressed in the contracts or CBA? Did this year just not happen and you still have X number of years left under contract? It’s that middle ground of a partial season that seems most fuzzy. 

 

Might we be better with no season than a partial season? Why didn’t this happen when we sucked for so long???  I could have missed those 2-14 years without too much angst! 

[First Round Bust]

As much as we want to say-think we have the virus under control; we don't.  Yes the curve is flattening but due to the high numbers of those not wearing masks AND not social distancing the threat remains very real.  We have to have a plan A and plan B, its still out there... like the flu for example; has been around decades; it morphs and is hard to create an accurate immunization as last years version was only 40% effective.  So what will teams do when a player or coach gets it; quarantine for 2 weeks and then wait for 2 negative tests before returning...minimum

 

[Mr. WEO]

On 6/23/2020 at 12:34 PM, mannc said:

COVID is NOT rising.  Deaths and hospitalizations are trending strongly downward nationwide and in almost all states, despite opening up.  Testing, especially of young healthy people is up, which is resulting in more positive tests.  (Other factors are contributing to increased positive tests, as well.)  

Thank you.  These athletes (and their coaches) are at far greater risk of dying in an auto accident on their way to practice.  

 

Hospitalizations up 60% in Texas in a week.   California just reached it's highest number ever.  Same in parts of Florida.

 

Incidence of positve tests results are increasing as well.  The disease is spreading more rapidly than before.  In Fla, for example, 3 weeks ago, only 3% of patient tested were positive.  By June 20, it had tripled to 12%.

 

On 6/23/2020 at 1:12 PM, boater said:

COVID is declining nation wide, not rising. Yes, there are some hot spots like FL and AZ.

 

Daily COVID-19 Deaths in the U.S. Have Fallen Dramatically Since April

 

Deaths yes, "COVID", no.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan
Great topic to continue - in covid-19 threads please

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

good luck enforcing that bubble with a bunch of 20 year old millionaires. 

Personally i doubt they’re going to be running around Florida with Covid rates rising... besides, they basically have anything they want at their disposal on Disney’s grounds.   It’s not like they are in prison, they are staying at 5 star accommodations with plenty of ways to entertain themselves when not focusing on trying to win a championship and earning those far pay checks.

2 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

Shame Cuomo, Wolf and  Murphy, gov's of NY PA AND NJ sent people to nursing homes to die  jacking up the numbers.. otherwise this is the flu.,.Didnt Dr Fauci say "no more than 10 looters  in a store at one time" ..  All of it doesnt add up.. and that is JMHO .. 

my mother’s 30 something year old co worker died from this, and my wife was sick for about 7 weeks, suffering a collapsed lung and heart issues... keep telling yourself whatever narrative helps you get to sleep at night

Edited June 23, 2020 by Dr.Mantis_Toboggan

[NewEra]

On 6/23/2020 at 1:44 PM, Augie said:

 

I try to have some glimmer of hope, but I think I’m mostly just fooling myself. What happens when a team’s DB room gets infected, and another teams OL room gets wiped out. What happens if/when Andy Reid or Belichick gets it? The first coach is hospitalized? It seems inevitable. 

 

I say all that to wonder this: how does this affect players and their contracts? Do they get a year of service if we play some, then pull the plug? How much would we have to play?  How about if it’s apparent that it’s not feasible during camp with a wave of infections and we play zero games? How is this addressed in the contracts or CBA? Did this year just not happen and you still have X number of years left under contract? It’s that middle ground of a partial season that seems most fuzzy. 

 

Might we be better with no season than a partial season? Why didn’t this happen when we sucked for so long???  I could have missed those 2-14 years without too much angst! 

Yup.  The first season in which we have a true chance at being an upper echelon team....the world stops due to an unstoppable flu [////].  Just our luck

Edited June 26, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan
poly ticks elsewhere please

[kdub]

2 hours ago, Jamie Nails said:

 

The statistical deviation in cases resulting in deaths has already occurred. The new cases may result in hospitalizations, but ICU and deaths have deviated and stable and continuing to decrease as 1) younger, less vulnerable populations catch the virus and 2) treatment and therapeutics improve. The "wait two weeks"  and "death is a lagging indicator" statements are not as valid as they once were.  

 

I agree that this both points will decrease the effective death rate, but to definitely say that the death rate will not increase with a drastic increase in cases is hopeful at best.

Edited June 23, 2020 by kdub

[Billy Claude]

37 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said:

 

Masks are effective

Unfortunately masks are only effective if most people use them.

 

Masks don't really protect the wearer (maybe a little), it protects the people around the wearer.   Wearing a mask is a minor inconvenience.  To me wearing a mask in an indoor public place is a courtesy similar to turning your face when you sneeze.

 

When and how opening occurs should be a political issue.   Masks should not have been a political issue.  It should just be common sense.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Billy Claude

[HardyBoy]

1 hour ago, boater said:

COVID is declining nation wide, not rising. Yes, there are some hot spots like FL and AZ.

 

Daily COVID-19 Deaths in the U.S. Have Fallen Dramatically Since April

 

Are you excluding nyc and other early hot spots, because those aren't representative of the rest of the country at this point, especially nyc that had so many people. 

 

They were a few weeks ahead on the exponetial growth curve than the rest of the country.

[Warren Zevon]

28 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

Unfortunately masks are only effective if most people use them.

 

True.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, jethro_tull said:

One thing to understand is that most of the media are not doing a good job at reporting information that is qualified to be meaningful to us.  

For example it seems daunting when there is a rise in confirmed cases- but we need to understand is that more people are being tested than ever before and the new case numbers are not a good indicator on what actions are needed.  

 

The best indicator IMHO are the rate of new fatalities.  This number is fairly consistently tracked and would show a trend of the actual cases both confirmed and unconfirmed.  

 

For example, the US 14 day trend is + 32% new cases, but down 31% in new deaths.  That is a big deal and a very encouraging sign.  

You do realize deaths lag behind new cases by 4 weeks. By the end of July you'll see deaths begin to rise.

[billsfan89]

A bubble league is going to be very logistically difficult for the NFL. You are talking about probably 500 to 1000 people per-team that would need to be sequestered and possibly more if families are included.

 

53 players plus 12 to 16 PS players, dozens of coaches, dozens of trainers, dozens of equipment managers, dozens of grounds keepers and security for stadiums and additional general support staff. Plus add in the referees and the broadcast personnel and you probably have close to 500 people for one team. 

 

Toss in then the hotel and other service staff for those people and now you are talking about building a self sustaining society of 32k people in a bubble league. 

 

It's not impossible but it isn't easy. 

[Logic]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

Has anyone seen where one of these athletes has really struggled with the virus? All I have seen is so-and-so tested positive and then they are basically Covid free after a few days. It was the same with Sean Payton. He said in a couple of days or so he was back to normal. I know it affects everyone different, but I haven't seen where any of these athletes have been knocked down by it. 

Von Miller, 17 days after testing positive, said he still felt like his lungs were not back to their normal capacity. And he's a lean, muscled up pass rusher.

Think about the offensive linemen. Think about the coaches in their 70s. Think about people shaped like Andy Reid.

 

3 hours ago, mannc said:

COVID is NOT rising.  Deaths and hospitalizations are trending strongly downward nationwide and in almost all states, despite opening up.  Testing, especially of young healthy people is up, which is resulting in more positive tests.  (Other factors are contributing to increased positive tests, as well.)  

Thank you.  These athletes (and their coaches) are at far greater risk of dying in an auto accident on their way to practice.  

That is simply not true. The increase in positive tests is NOT solely due to increased testing. Positive cases ARE on the rise. Community spread IS on the rise. People pretending that things are improving, rather than re-escalating, have their heads in the sand.

2 hours ago, wppete said:

9 days ago. 

 

 

 

There has been drastically less increase in positive COVID cases in states where large protests occurred (like Minnesota and Oregon, for instance) than in states that simply re-opened early and without mask-wearing mandates. Go compare Arizona, Florida, and Texas to Minnesota, Oregon, and DC and tell me what you see.

[Logic]

2 hours ago, wppete said:

 

 

Well I know I'M not going to question the expertise of....*checks notes*....Twitter personality Savanah Hernandez?

This nonsense has already been debunked. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2020/06/13/masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-studies-say-but-wearing-them-still-a-political-issue/#25f1126b604e

 

A new review published in The Lancet looked at 172 observational studies and found that masks are effective in many settings in preventing the spread of the coronavirus (though the results cannot be treated with absolute certainty since they were not obtained through randomized trials, the Washington Post notes).

Another recent study found that wearing a mask was the most effective way to reduce the transmission of the virus. 

 

[NewEra]

51 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

GOOGLE?  enter in any three number followed by new cases .. see what you get  for instance "439 new cases"  do it as many times as you want  use four numbers.. and no prob about a trump debate , and just an FYI.. i for one dont "ramble" 

Where did I say that you rambled?  I said that I dIdn’t feel like rambling on.  
 

Sorry, don’t use google.  Don’t ask me either.  I’m

here for football and to support those that wear masks.  If you’re too good to wear a mask or mock the use of them, you’re an idiot.  Being in the high risk category and not being able to return to work until things are somewhat “normal”, I don’t appreciate such buffoonery as refusing to wear a mask when it is proven to slow the spread of the disease.  

[Logic]

Just now, NewEra said:

Where did I say that you rambled?  I said that I dIdn’t feel like rambling on.  
 

Sorry, don’t use google.  Don’t ask me either.  I’m

here for football and to support those that wear masks.  If you’re too good to wear a mask or mock the use of them, you’re an idiot.  Being in the high risk category and not being able to return to work until things are somewhat “normal”, I don’t appreciate such buffoonery as refusing to wear a mask when it is proven to slow the spread of the disease.  

Amen.

Put it this way: If there's even a 10% chance that wearing a mask will help to slow or prevent the spread of the virus -- and make no mistake, the likelihood of masks helping in this regard is much higher -- I'm doing it. To refuse to wear a mask is to openly declare "I don't care about you or your health. My comfort is more important than your life". Period. That's all there is to it. Put aside your refusal to believe in science, your selfishness, your sense of entitlement, and just for ONE SECOND think about "we" rather than "me". It's a tiny scrap of cloth over your mouth for a few months, for Chrissakes. Grow up, stop being an ass, and do what needs to be done for the increased safety and health of our population, you self-centered dingbats!

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

Amen.

Put it this way: If there's even a 10% chance that wearing a mask will help to slow or prevent the spread of the virus -- and make no mistake, the likelihood of masks helping in this regard is much higher -- I'm doing it. To refuse to wear a mask is to openly declare "I don't care about you or your health. My comfort is more important than your life". Period. That's all there is to it. Put aside your refusal to believe in science, your selfishness, your sense of entitlement, and just for ONE SECOND think about "we" rather than "me". It's a tiny scrap of cloth over your mouth for a few months, for Chrissakes. Grow up, stop being an ass, and do what needs to be done for the increased safety and health of our population, you self-centered dingbats!

 

To each their own when they are alone in the car, or walking alone in an empty park. When I go the the grocery store or another crowded location, I feel I owe it to the cashiers who have risked their health and that of their families by making food available to us. Is that so hard? 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

Amen.

Put it this way: If there's even a 10% chance that wearing a mask will help to slow or prevent the spread of the virus -- and make no mistake, the likelihood of masks helping in this regard is much higher -- I'm doing it. To refuse to wear a mask is to openly declare "I don't care about you or your health. My comfort is more important than your life". Period. That's all there is to it. Put aside your refusal to believe in science, your selfishness, your sense of entitlement, and just for ONE SECOND think about "we" rather than "me". It's a tiny scrap of cloth over your mouth for a few months, for Chrissakes. Grow up, stop being an ass, and do what needs to be done for the increased safety and health of our population, you self-centered dingbats!

It’s really unbelievable that THE PRESIDENT OF THE USA, is one of those people.  The ultimate slap in the face to our country.  I do my best to keep my mind away from politics due it it being so negative and I actually like a few of Trumps policies, but the fact that our president is acting like this makes it quite obvious he isn’t worthy of a 2nd term.  REALLY sucks that Biden is the alternative.  Crazy that we’re in this position.  
 

Sorry for the ramble.  My point is now clear

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

To each their own when they are alone in the car, or walking alone in an empty park. When I go the the grocery store or another crowded location, I feel I owe it to the cashiers who have risked their health and that of their families by making food available to us. Is that so hard? 

Yep. If you’re in a position where you could possibly transmit the virus, you should be wearing a mask.  If you disagree, I can’t help you.  You’re an idiot. 

1 minute ago, dwight in philly said:

Well ok name calling. "idiot"  as u said  you win! im not getting into that type of stuff.. 

that’s not name calling. That’s just stating the obvious.  You don’t think you should wear a mask when you’re in the vicinity of others?

[dwight in philly]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

Yes, I am..

Then why arent they being ostracized like the everyday person who questions wearing a mask.. they somehow are never in the "mix" 

[Coach Tuesday]

15 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

i think it should be up to me because the "science" about mask wearing is up for debate , to say the least..  lotsa looters "protesters"  were not  wearing masks are you concerned about what they may have transmitted to other looters .. protesters" 

It may be time to start rooting for the virus.