Zack Moss runs a 4.52 40 yard dash

[Doc]

38 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I wouldn’t say that he dropped like a rock. He was widely considered to be a 3rd rounder and was going to be the 6th or 7th RB drafted depending on where teams stood on Dillon. He was technically 9th but 8th of you don’t consider Gibson an RB (which I don’t).  He went 86 which is in line with where most experts seemed to have him. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/ I think Kiper was a little higher on him but in general that’s about where he was expected to go.

 

32 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

He was generally viewed as the 5th or 6th best RB prospect. He still was taken in the same range that most expected but there were definitely RBs taken ahead of him that were not expected to be. 
 

But yeah, definitely don’t think he dropped like a rock. It’s more that if you would have said 8 RBs were taken ahead of him, most people would have been a little surprised. 
 

It’s also obviously possible that NFL personnel were never as high on him as the media was. 

 

I think a 4.52 at the Combine would have moved him into the 2nd round.  Maybe that's not technically dropping like a rock, but it's a large drop.

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

This running game will open up the passing game, and vice versa. If Josh can hit the long balls....watch out. 

If he hits the long ball, all those folks voting against top ten qb  are in lost the bet category.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Eh, Moss isn’t fast but that’s okay. It’s nice to see him improve his time but I don’t think that makes much difference. His game isn’t predicated on running away from people. Frank Gore’s game was never that either. Moss earns his money banging on people in the hole. He’s elite at that. 

The player that Moss most reminds me of is Chris Ivory. He is a straight line North/South player who is good at reading the blocks and finding the seam. My worry with him is that his battering style of running usually has a short self life for high level play. For a back Ivory had a long career where he was one of the more punishing backs in the league. But you could see that the toll of giving out hits and taking hits wore him down and affected his play. When he played for Buffalo he was a shell of a player compared to when he played with the Jets. 

[T master]

If Moss turns out to be all the "Experts" are saying he is Singletary might need to bring a bit extra to his work outs Moss might put him self in place to be the lead back !

[Kirby Jackson]

39 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

I think a 4.52 at the Combine would have moved him into the 2nd round.  Maybe that's not technically dropping like a rock, but it's a large drop.

I didn’t see many people that had him above CEH, Swift, Dobbins, Taylor, or Akers. He went after those guys and doubt he would have passed them. He may have went earlier than 86 but he probably wasn’t going in the top 60-65 IMO. 

[TigerJ]

This news has been out there for a while.  It's the first tape I've seen though.

[Doc]

23 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The player that Moss most reminds me of is Chris Ivory. He is a straight line North/South player who is good at reading the blocks and finding the seam. My worry with him is that his battering style of running usually has a short self life for high level play. For a back Ivory had a long career where he was one of the more punishing backs in the league. But you could see that the toll of giving out hits and taking hits wore him down and affected his play. When he played for Buffalo he was a shell of a player compared to when he played with the Jets. 

 

If the Bills can get the first 4-5 years out of Moss that Ivory produced (on a YPC basis), it will have been a worthwhile pick.

 

10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I didn’t see many people that had him above CEH, Swift, Dobbins, Taylor, or Akers. He went after those guys and doubt he would have passed them. He may have went earlier than 86 but he probably wasn’t going in the top 60-65 IMO. 

 

I think that's mostly because of the 40-time.  I think he could have gone before Dillon, who went, I thought surpringly, at the end of 2nd.

[keepthefaith]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Which video are you talking about?  The one in the OP shows him finishing with a 4.52 and a 10-yard split of 1.60, 20-yard of 2.63 and 30-yard of 3.61.

 

Yes, those are the numbers and it was electronic timing.  If he makes it a priority he can get faster. His running form isn't great.  Very low knee lift and the ankle flex looks a little tight.  Overall he's a very tight runner.  Needs to loosen up and lengthen his stride if he wants to be faster.

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

 

IMO, the Bills lucked out big time due to this. He dropped like a rock due to his combine numbers.  Or so it seems.  

 

Most draft scouting had him compared to Kareem Hunt.  His relatively low speed/lack of high end were well known before the combine so I doubt that hurt him at all.  Anyone who scouted him had already commented on his speed.  Most had him as a 3rd rounder or possible 2nd. 

 

His elusiveness and power uniformly praised.  His lack of speed the fact that he takes a ton of hits were also a topic.

 

I can't imagine any NFL scouting office learns much new info that is useful to them based on 40 times.  RBs like this guy aren't drafted for their untouched open filed speed because he will rarely need that.

[Kirby Jackson]

50 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

If the Bills can get the first 4-5 years out of Moss that Ivory produced (on a YPC basis), it will have been a worthwhile pick.

 

 

I think that's mostly because of the 40-time.  I think he could have gone before Dillon, who went, I thought surpringly, at the end of 2nd.

He wasn’t ahead of them pre-40 either though. That was kind of my point. He didn’t rise or fall (much) because of his time. He is a bruising power back. If he was sub 4.4 he’d be Peterson.
 

I do agree with Dillon though. I’m a little surprised that he went before Moss. I think Henry’s strong end to last season (and all of last season) really helped Dillon. Their numbers were pretty similar across the board.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He wasn’t ahead of them pre-40 either though. That was kind of my point. He didn’t rise or fall (much) because of his time. He is a bruising power back. If he was sub 4.4 he’d be Peterson.
 

I do agree with Dillon though. I’m a little surprised that he went before Moss. I think Henry’s strong end to last season (and all of last season) really helped Dillon. Their numbers were pretty similar across the board.

 

My sense is that the perception was that he wasn't a fast RB and the Combine confirmed that.  I think a 4.52 would have put him a round earlier, or at least much earlier in the 3rd.  Again we're playing semantics talking about dropping "like a rock."

 

And I was looking for the Bills to draft Dillon in the 4th.  When he unexpectedly went in the 2nd, I knew they had to jump on a RB in the 3rd.  I was glad to hear they liked Moss enough to try and trade up for him, but am even more glad they got him without having to do so.

 

 

[JohnC]

59 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

If the Bills can get the first 4-5 years out of Moss that Ivory produced (on a YPC basis), it will have been a worthwhile pick.

 

 

 

I'll go a little beyond your evaluation. If his production is comparable to Ivory's production in his first 4-5 years it will be better than a worthwhile pick, it would be a very good pick. My point in the original post is if he doesn't to an extent modify his battering style of play such as at times judiciously going down or go out of bounds he will shorten his lifespan as a back. Without question this was a terrific pick. 

[Kirby Jackson]

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

My sense is that the perception was that he wasn't a fast RB and the Combine confirmed that.  I think a 4.52 would have put him a round earlier, or at least much earlier in the 3rd.  Again we're playing semantics talking about dropping "like a rock."

 

And I was looking for the Bills to draft Dillon in the 4th.  When he unexpectedly went in the 2nd, I knew they had to jump on a RB in the 3rd.  I was glad to hear they liked Moss enough to try and trade up for him, but am even more glad they got him without having to do so.

 

 

Candidly he wasn’t my favorite (and Dillon really wasn’t either). I wanted Dobbins in the 2nd as it played out. I was always, and still am, of the belief that the Bills need more home run hitters. I get that they wanted a power guy though and Moss fits that perfectly. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[Putin]

13 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

For $500, would you guys put on shoulder pads and take him head on?  Like your the MLB filling in the hole on a goaline stand.

I have good medical insurance so that would take care of my hospital bill , but I would probably miss a week of work and would end up spending that $500 on pain meds so hell no I wouldn’t do it ...

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Putin

[buffaloboyinATL]

14 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

I’m too amped for #MotorMoss. What a duo and we got them both in the 3rd. 
 

Don’t have to worry about RB at all for the next 4 years

I say we call him Diesel. Motor and Diesel make a great 1-2 punch.  

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He wasn’t ahead of them pre-40 either though. That was kind of my point. He didn’t rise or fall (much) because of his time. He is a bruising power back. If he was sub 4.4 he’d be Peterson.
 

I do agree with Dillon though. I’m a little surprised that he went before Moss. I think Henry’s strong end to last season (and all of last season) really helped Dillon. Their numbers were pretty similar across the board.

Very often there is a wide variation between what the draft analysts predict and what actually happens at the draft. In general, I thought the pre-draft predictions came close to mirroring the actual draft with respect to the running backs. And as you pointed out because of the dominating season that Henry had, Dillon who was compared to him in style, had his status elevated. 

 

Dillon was the back that I found very intriguing and hoped the Bills would draft. I consider Moss a more intelligent and natural back. But I understand why the Packers were willing to gamble taking Dillon higher than most teams would have after watching how Henry influenced the offense in Tennessee. 

[Bangarang]

27 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I say we call him Diesel. Motor and Diesel make a great 1-2 punch.  

C’mon brah put em together and they can be known as Diesel Motor

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

C’mon brah put em together and they can be known as Diesel Motor

Technically a motor is powered by electricity, whereas engines rely on combustion from typically either gasoline or diesel fuel.

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Candidly he wasn’t my favorite (and Dillon really wasn’t either). I wanted Dobbins in the 2nd as it played out. I was always, and still am, of the belief that the Bills need more home run hitters. I get that they wanted a power guy though and Moss fits that perfectly. 

I know that it's an attempt to be happier post Christmas with the gifts you got rather than what you thought you wanted but.....

 

Let's compare him to Taylor, the homerun hitter.  It's likely true that Zack blocks better, does more as a pass catcher, breaks more tackles and fumbles less than JT.  If this is generally true, we'd all be quite pleased that he's a Bill.   The bonus is that Epenesa is on the team too.

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

I know that it's an attempt to be happier post Christmas with the gifts you got rather than what you thought you wanted but.....

 

Let's compare him to Taylor, the homerun hitter.  It's likely true that Zack blocks better, does more as a pass catcher, breaks more tackles and fumbles less than JT.  If this is generally true, we'd all be quite pleased that he's a Bill.   The bonus is that Epenesa is on the team too.

Yeah but Dobbins & Greenard > Epenesa & Moss IMO. Everyone has their guys though. I’m not trying to MMQB it. I might be right and might be wrong. I hope that they are both great. I think that they both have pretty high floors. As a contending team, I get the guys that they went with. Both of them should contribute now. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I'll go a little beyond your evaluation. If his production is comparable to Ivory's production in his first 4-5 years it will be better than a worthwhile pick, it would be a very good pick. My point in the original post is if he doesn't to an extent modify his battering style of play such as at times judiciously going down or go out of bounds he will shorten his lifespan as a back. Without question this was a terrific pick. 

 

Yes the running style will shorten his career, but that's his problem.  If the Bills can get 4-5 good years out of him, that's all they can ask for and then move on.

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

He checked in at combine weighing 223, Bills have him listed at 205. If he did drop 18ish poundd, he may be a legit 4.5 guy

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

He checked in at combine weighing 223, Bills have him listed at 205. If he did drop 18ish poundd, he may be a legit 4.5 guy

 

That's odd?  When did they have him come in to get weighed?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

That's odd?  When did they have him come in to get weighed?

Not sure, but they are all on BB.com

[TheyCallMeAndy]

18 hours ago, CapeBreton said:

I think it’s great that the Bills staff trust the tape and don’t care about the combine, same goes for Epenesa. 

There's been a big difference lately from combine 40 times to proday 40s, combine usually being slower 

[purple haze]

19 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

He certainly looked football fast on tape. I didn't doubt his combine time but I felt he was faster than that. 

I'm in Pac-12 country.  Seen a lot of Utah.  That 4.65 had me thinking he was running with a pull or sprain.   He plays much faster.  He won't straight out outrun most pro DBs, but he can get some distance on his runs and lower that boom too.  He reminds me of Motor in that he can peel off some big runs.  But where Motor is smooth/slippery, Moss is violent.

Edited May 16, 2020 by purple haze

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

4.52 - the exact same time run by Emmitt Smith. Give these guys a dominant OL and the sky's the limit for the Offense!

[purple haze]

18 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

For $500, would you guys put on shoulder pads and take him head on?  Like your the MLB filling in the hole on a goaline stand.

Hell yeah.

[The Dean]

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I wouldn’t say that he dropped like a rock. He was widely considered to be a 3rd rounder and was going to be the 6th or 7th RB drafted depending on where teams stood on Dillon. He was technically 9th but 8th of you don’t consider Gibson an RB (which I don’t).  He went 86 which is in line with where most experts seemed to have him. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/ I think Kiper was a little higher on him but in general that’s about where he was expected to go.

 

 

Pretty sure those rankings were Post Combine. Perhaps I'm wrong. I was hearing draft analysts say he was ranked higher among backs, but took a big hit after his combine performance. Maybe "dropped like a rock" was a bit of hyperbole.   But Beane certainly didn't expect him to be there when the Bills picked, or so he says. I think a good combine would have almost assured he would not.

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yes the running style will shorten his career, but that's his problem.  If the Bills can get 4-5 good years out of him, that's all they can ask for and then move on.

 

You dont want him changing his style either........this is what has gotten him where he is at.  Platooning him with Devin will definately help stretch it out.

[CapeBreton]

30 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

There's been a big difference lately from combine 40 times to proday 40s, combine usually being slower 

Moss supposedly tweaked his hammy at the combine so the 4.65 isn’t indicative of his actual speed. And the 4.52 is probably way too generous. Nothing wrong with 4.6 speed at RB though, lots of good guys out there who are a lot faster on the field the on the track.

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, CapeBreton said:

Moss supposedly tweaked his hammy at the combine so the 4.65 isn’t indicative of his actual speed. And the 4.52 is probably way too generous. Nothing wrong with 4.6 speed at RB though, lots of good guys out there who are a lot faster on the field the on the track.

I think its much more important on how fast they get to top speed rather then how fast their 40 is in my opinion.

 

This team has PLENTY of speed now......what we need are actually football play makers and hopefully we have them now.

[Teddy KGB]

20 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

For $500, would you guys put on shoulder pads and take him head on?  Like your the MLB filling in the hole on a goaline stand.

make it 100.     

[dezertbill]

1 hour ago, CapeBreton said:

Moss supposedly tweaked his hammy at the combine so the 4.65 isn’t indicative of his actual speed. And the 4.52 is probably way too generous. Nothing wrong with 4.6 speed at RB though, lots of good guys out there who are a lot faster on the field the on the track.

I agree nothing wrong with 4.6 speed.  But the guns at the yard markers (not hand time) clocked him at 4.52.  It wasn't generous, it's what he ran. 

[JESSEFEFFER]

2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

There's been a big difference lately from combine 40 times to proday 40s, combine usually being slower 

I think most who like their combine numbers do not run at their proday.

 

Those who did not post a time at the combine that they feel is their best effort are rather anxious to improve upon them at their proday.  Both Epenesa and Moss were denied the chance to do just that and if they had they likely would not be Bills.

Edited May 17, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Pretty sure those rankings were Post Combine. Perhaps I'm wrong. I was hearing draft analysts say he was ranked higher among backs, but took a big hit after his combine performance. Maybe "dropped like a rock" was a bit of hyperbole.   But Beane certainly didn't expect him to be there when the Bills picked, or so he says. I think a good combine would have almost assured he would not.

I’m not sure if that was before or after but hIs rankings didn’t change much. Maybe he had a chance to go up with a fast 40 but he pretty much stayed the same running slow. He didn’t go up or down. He was the physical, bruiser that teams thought. He just wasn’t the physical, bruiser that could run away from guys in the open field. Teams probably expected high 4.5’s and got mid 4.6’s. It wasn’t enough to move him too much.
 

Now if he played on the edge as a finesse back the 4.65 would have hurt him. He doesn’t though so he ended up where he was. In order of “Bills draft picks going later than expected” he definitely isn’t in the top 2 and maybe not the top 3 depending on where you thought Hodgins would go. Fromm went about a round and a half later than expected and Epenesa a full round after. Moss was a 3rd rounder by most experts.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[The Dean]

29 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not sure if that was before or after but hIs rankings didn’t change much. Maybe he had a chance to go up with a fast 40 but he pretty much stayed the same running slow. He didn’t go up or down. He was the physical, bruiser that teams thought. He just wasn’t the physical, bruiser that could run away from guys in the open field. Teams probably expected high 4.5’s and got mid 4.6’s. It wasn’t enough to move him too much.
 

Now if he played on the edge as a finesse back the 4.65 would have hurt him. He doesn’t though so he ended up where he was. In order of “Bills draft picks going later than expected” he definitely isn’t in the top 2 and maybe not the top 3 depending on where you thought Hodgins would go. Fromm went about a round and a half later than expected and Epenesa a full round after. Moss was a 3rd rounder by most experts.

 

 

I'll buy that.

[JerseyBills]

I just have a gut feeling he's going to be an extreme productive RB. 

He reminds me of Mark Ingram. 

Singletary, I believe is a stud. 

 

I know this is a bit of a stretch, considering he has only played a few games but he reminds me of the great Edgarin James mixed with Leveon Bell.

 

Bottom line, I expect a highly improved Run game overall from the Bills. People always fail to bring up the sub par run game Allen has had as a starter. Meanwhile guys in his QB class like Baker and Lamar have had elite run games to take pressure off the pass.

 

Adding an established #1 in Diggs to the pass game as well and we could easily be looking at a Top 10 or better offense! With the #2 defense behind then , being upgraded as well , watch out!!

 

Moss is going to be wonderful , perfect fit for Buffalo. 4th qtr , defense a bit tired , they might be thinking twice about attacking Moss and becoming a highlight reel!

Edited May 17, 2020 by JerseyBills

[Thurman#1]

23 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

 

IMO, the Bills lucked out big time due to this. He dropped like a rock due to his combine numbers.  Or so it seems.  

 

 

 

I didn't remember him dropping much, so I looked back and I don't think it happened that way.

 

In his pre-combine big board Matt Miller had him #85, Kevin Hanson had him #88. Kiper had him the #5 RB (had Akers #8). DraftScout had him in the third from early. 

 

I don't think the combine affected him much. #85 and #88 would be just about exactly where the Bills had him, most likely, as he was their BPA at the time. I think teams saw what we see, that he was no 4.4 guy but that on the field he wasn't a 4.65 guy either. The thigh tweak news came out the same day as he ran the 40 at the combine and I think teams believed him. I think he went just about where he was always going to go. Does look like a nice pickup, though. In those pictures with Josh and Barkley and the group in California, his thighs are absolute tree trunks. He's a strong-looking dude, and the tape shows he played like one.

 

EDIT: I see this has already been talked about. Never mind.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I kindve like McFarland in Pittsburgh....he’s the HR threat they could’ve used after passing on Dobbins.

 

 

Fair enough that they don't have a super-fast home-run threat at WR. Seems obvious by now they don't think that's a necessity, but they do think having a vertical pounder really is. They've had one guy like that every year McDermott's been here. Tolbert, Ivory, Gore. They want a hammer here. Beane said as much pre-draft when commenting on Yeldon and why he didn't get more carries behind Gore. They feel they need one. And since they've never had a home-run guy it's at this point pretty obvious they feel that's not a need, though they might at some point be happy if they could bring one in if the circumstances are right.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Thurman#1