Trent Murphy upped his game late last season and is better than many think

[dave mcbride]

I thought this deserved its own thread given all the talk about the various moving d-line pieces following all of these d-line signings. In the final six games of 2019 including the playoff game, Murphy had six sacks, six tackles for loss, and 8 qb hits. He averaged playing 67 percent of the snaps too. Obviously and inarguably, that is elite production.  I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Many years ago, a wise man named @AKC talked about d-line equity, focusing in particular on the Giants SB teams that beat the Pats (particularly the 07 team). When you can rotate in good d-lineman after good d-lineman over the course of a game, it becomes very, very tough for an offense to produce. The Bills now have d-line equity in spades. It is going to be fun to watch.
 

Here is Murphy’s 2019 game log: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MurpTr00/gamelog/2019/. 

[Don Otreply]

Oh man, I see the torches coming up the street already... 

 

Keep your elbows in and your head covered... ?

 

Go Bills!!!

[papazoid]

too little , too late

 

his contract says they save $8 mil if cut ($1.75 dead money)

 

id say its 75% likely hes gone

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, papazoid said:

too little , too late

 

his contract says they save $8 mil if cut ($1.75 dead money)

 

id say its 75% likely hes gone

 

Are we saving money or trying to win football games?

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, papazoid said:

too little , too late

 

his contract says they save $8 mil if cut ($1.75 dead money)

 

id say its 75% likely hes gone

He was literally the best defensive player on the field vs. Houston. 

[Hebert19]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

Are we saving money or trying to win football games?

If that 8M goes to a guy that's better then we are in the business of winning. 

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

Are we saving money or trying to win football games?

We need villains.  Star and Murphy are it.

[BuffaloRebound]

Murphy would get $8m per year from somebody if we cut him.  

[DFT]

37 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I thought this deserved its own thread given all the talk about the various moving d-line pieces following all of these d-line signings. In the final six games of 2019 including the playoff game, Murphy had six sacks, six tackles for loss, and 8 qb hits. He averaged playing 67 percent of the snaps too. Obviously and inarguably, that is elite production.  I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Many years ago, a wise man named @AKC talked about d-line equity, focusing in particular on the Giants SB teams that beat the Pats (particularly the 07 team). When you can rotate in good d-lineman after good d-lineman over the course of a game, it becomes very, very tough for an offense to produce. The Bills now have d-line equity in spades. It is going to be fun to watch.
 

Here is Murphy’s 2019 game log: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MurpTr00/gamelog/2019/. 

Great post!  If we do keep him, it’s because coach knows what he’ll do with the additions to the line.  I hope we do, because we’ve upgraded considerably on the line, and at worst, stayed even at LB.  it’s not the sexy option, but he definitely came on late and looked like the version the Bills thought they would get.   

Edited March 19, 2020 by DFT

[Kirby Jackson]

He definitely played better late last year. I thought there was no chance that he was coming back this year. At this point I believe that he will be back. With that being said if the Bills were to chase Clowney or Ngakoue Murphy’s release will definitely be a part of that. The $8M of space from him would be needed.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He definitely played better late last year. I thought there was no chance that he was coming back this year. At this point I believe that he will be back. With that being said if the Bills were to chase Clowney or Ngakoue Murphy’s release will definitely be a part of that. The $8M of space from him would be needed.

 

I would rather $10 million Trent over $20 million Clowney or Ngakoue. After that, are there any other impact guys that would be worth cutting Trent for? 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I would rather $10 million Trent over $20 million Clowney or Ngakoue. After that, are there any other impact guys that would be worth cutting Trent for? 

I don’t see Clowney getting $20M. That’s what he wanted and hasn’t yet seen the market there. I’d shoot for Clowney at 3 years , $54M with $32M guaranteed (something like that). I’d give Clowney $18M a year over $10M a year for Murphy 8 days a week. That pretty much guarantees that the Bills have the best defense in the league. Additionally, you would have him for a couple more years which is important. Murphy and Hughes could be in their last year and Addison is 33. 

[Jamie Mueller]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I would rather $10 million Trent over $20 million Clowney or Ngakoue. After that, are there any other impact guys that would be worth cutting Trent for? 

I just can't believe that the Bills would cut Trent Murphy after patiently waiting almost 2 years for the pre-surgery player to show up.  He'll get at least training camp and the pre-season games to prove that the end of last season wasn't a mirage.  Like Poyer, he might even get extended.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t see Clowney getting $20M. That’s what he wanted and hasn’t yet seen the market there. I’d shoot for Clowney at 3 years , $54M with $32M guaranteed (something like that). I’d give Clowney $18M a year over $10M a year for Murphy 8 days a week. That pretty much guarantees that the Bills have the best defense in the league. Additionally, you would have him for a couple more years which is important. Murphy and Hughes could be in their last year and Addison is 33. 

 

Maybe, but that's a lot of money for a guy that has never gotten more than 10 sacks. And its not like he didn't have help. 

[bmur66]

I agree. Murphy was good last year. And he has a great last name

[whatdrought]

I say keep him or get a pick from him. My guess is that the Dline this year is the Oline last year... Stock up on guys, make em fight like hell in camp, sift the cream off the top, trade the milk for picks. Wash, rinse, repeat. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, Jamie Mueller said:

I just can't believe that the Bills would cut Trent Murphy after patiently waiting almost 2 years for the pre-surgery player to show up.  He'll get at least training camp and the pre-season games to prove that the end of last season wasn't a mirage.  Like Poyer, he might even get extended.

 

They won't. And they aren't going to get one of those big ticket guys. I don't think it would be worth the investment, and I have a feeling they feel the same way. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Trying to recall last season did we have a 4 or 3 man rotation at DE?  I know we had Hughes, Lawson, and Murphy mainly.  And 7th rounder Johnson.  Am I forgetting someone that did play a fair amount of snaps?  Now have Addison, Hughes, Murphy, and Johnson. 

 

At tackle had Oliver, Phillips, Star, and Liguit (once Harrison went down).  This year have Oliver, Star, Harrison, the new guy Butler, but also another or does that last one plat both tackle and end?

[Jamie Mueller]

1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Trying to recall last season did we have a 4 or 3 man rotation at DE?  I know we had Hughes, Lawson, and Murphy mainly.  And 7th rounder Johnson.  Am I forgetting someone that did play a fair amount of snaps?  Now have Addison, Hughes, Murphy, and Johnson. 

 

At tackle had Oliver, Phillips, Star, and Liguit (once Harrison went down).  This year have Oliver, Star, Harrison, the new guy Butler, but also another or does that last one plat both tackle and end?

I've read that newcomers Jefferson and Butler can both play tackle and end...

[SCBills]

You can do a lot worse than Hughes-Addison-Murphy-Johnson, but with only Oliver, Harry and Johnson as young guys, we're going to have to draft heavy DL for the next few years to fortify the line when we start paying everybody.

 

As far as pass rush goes, we may lack that elite EDGE, but we have two above average pass rushers in Hughes and Addison, plus the interior should provide a rush as well with Oliver, Butler and Jefferson.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by SCBills

[Just Joshin']

37 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

We need villains.  Star and Murphy are it.

When they are gone, it will be someone else.

 

I can't wait for the hype on the UDFA WR who will be a star.

[Kirby Jackson]

14 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Maybe, but that's a lot of money for a guy that has never gotten more than 10 sacks. And its not like he didn't have help. 

If you are looking at his sacks you are missing his impact. His pressure rate ranks right there with the best in the league. He’s in the backfield often. He’s really good against the run as well (where Murphy has a target on his back in the run game). Murphy is an okay player. Clowney is a dominant player (albeit it sometimes inconsistent). 
 

There is a reason that Seattle is trying hard to bring him back.

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

When they are gone, it will be someone else.

 

I can't wait for the hype on the UDFA WR who will be a star.

Maybe we can package Star and Murphy for the unstoppable Isabella.

[CNYfan]

44 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He was literally the best defensive player on the field vs. Houston. 

Seemed to be around important turnovers all season as well.  I don't dig the negativity here about T. Murphy.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

Why not keep him. He finally started getting healthy and is under a team friendly deal. We made our re-inforcements on the D-line and I think the FO is now concentrating on other positions. Unless a great trade op  come us, then we know The Wizard will wave his wand.

[34-78-83]

55 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I thought this deserved its own thread given all the talk about the various moving d-line pieces following all of these d-line signings. In the final six games of 2019 including the playoff game, Murphy had six sacks, six tackles for loss, and 8 qb hits. He averaged playing 67 percent of the snaps too. Obviously and inarguably, that is elite production.  I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Many years ago, a wise man named @AKC talked about d-line equity, focusing in particular on the Giants SB teams that beat the Pats (particularly the 07 team). When you can rotate in good d-lineman after good d-lineman over the course of a game, it becomes very, very tough for an offense to produce. The Bills now have d-line equity in spades. It is going to be fun to watch.
 

Here is Murphy’s 2019 game log: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MurpTr00/gamelog/2019/. 

I've been meaning to try to voice this in some way in light of all the recent torches and pitchforks sent the way of Murphy. He was clearly much more healthy and fully recovered from the previous injuries last season and consistently played his role as a 4-3 LDE in McDermott's scheme. Thanks for wording it much better than I would have.

[buffaloboyinATL]

54 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I thought this deserved its own thread given all the talk about the various moving d-line pieces following all of these d-line signings. In the final six games of 2019 including the playoff game, Murphy had six sacks, six tackles for loss, and 8 qb hits. He averaged playing 67 percent of the snaps too. Obviously and inarguably, that is elite production.  I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Many years ago, a wise man named @AKC talked about d-line equity, focusing in particular on the Giants SB teams that beat the Pats (particularly the 07 team). When you can rotate in good d-lineman after good d-lineman over the course of a game, it becomes very, very tough for an offense to produce. The Bills now have d-line equity in spades. It is going to be fun to watch.
 

Here is Murphy’s 2019 game log: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MurpTr00/gamelog/2019/. 

Thank you. Unfortunately, once you get "whipping boy" status around here, there is no turning back. I can't think of any TBD whipping boys that were ever forgiven, even when they started playing better. (i.e. Shaq Lawson)  Trent is finally getting back to his old form after previous injuries and he will likely be a big contributor this year, but many will never forgive him for his "slow start".

[Happy]

Murphy (and Star) get paid too much for what they do.  You can't keep Murphy at $8M/year.  Murphy had a good game vs Houston and now all of a sudden he is clutch.  The rest of the year he wasn't anything spectacular.  Counting on Murphy and Star to make your defense stout is like counting on a car air freshener to make an outhouse smell good.

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Murphy (and Star) get paid too much for what they do.  You can't keep Murphy at $8M/year.  Murphy had a good game vs Houston and now all of a sudden he is clutch.  The rest of the year he wasn't anything spectacular.  Counting on Murphy and Star to make your defense stout is like counting on a car air freshener to make an outhouse smell good.

Why can’t they keep Murphy? So they somehow need the cap space all of a sudden?

 

I keep repeating it: don’t make the team worse for the sake of cap space that you don’t need.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

Why can’t they keep Murphy? So they somehow need the cap space all of a sudden?

 

I keep repeating it: don’t make the team worse for the sake of cap space that you don’t need.

You’re with me if they could get Clowney for AAV of $18M?

[MrEpsYtown]

I could see a re-structure type extension. But yes, finally healthy, he was very good in the second half of the season. As others have said, I think he stays unless we make a really big ticket addition. I think he is a solid, yet somewhat overpaid piece. 

[thebandit27]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

You’re with me if they could get Clowney for AAV of $18M?

***** yes

[Reed83HOF]

40 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t see Clowney getting $20M. That’s what he wanted and hasn’t yet seen the market there. I’d shoot for Clowney at 3 years , $54M with $32M guaranteed (something like that). I’d give Clowney $18M a year over $10M a year for Murphy 8 days a week. That pretty much guarantees that the Bills have the best defense in the league. Additionally, you would have him for a couple more years which is important. Murphy and Hughes could be in their last year and Addison is 33. 

getting younger at this postion is of the uptmost importance. Way too much age here. I didn't want to pay Shaq $10 a season, but I would have strongly considered him over Murphy based on similar numbers and age. Not hating on Murphy, but we are pretty old at this position. Clowney and even Yannick both meet Beane's requirement of upgrades as well

[Don Otreply]

36 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I say keep him or get a pick from him. My guess is that the Dline this year is the Oline last year... Stock up on guys, make em fight like hell in camp, sift the cream off the top, trade the milk for picks. Wash, rinse, repeat. 

My exact sentiments,  it’s the Beane way, some haven’t recognized that yet. 
 

Go !!!

[Reed83HOF]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Why can’t they keep Murphy? So they somehow need the cap space all of a sudden?

 

I keep repeating it: don’t make the team worse for the sake of cap space that you don’t need.

and overvaluing of draft picks

Edited March 19, 2020 by Reed83HOF

[MrEpsYtown]

11 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Thank you. Unfortunately, once you get "whipping boy" status around here, there is no turning back. I can't think of any TBD whipping boys that were ever forgiven, even when they started playing better. (i.e. Shaq Lawson)  Trent is finally getting back to his old form after previous injuries and he will likely be a big contributor this year, but many will never forgive him for his "slow start".

Immediately, Dion Dawkins comes to mind. Whipping boy who can’t play tackle and needs to move to guard because those six plays he was a guard as a rookie. Dion has developed, as many players, especially young offensive linemen, naturally do. Dion has climbed out of the whipping boy situation and now everyone wants to extend him. 
 

Cody Ford has now taken over the mantle of tackles who need to play guard passed on through the generations from Cordy to Dion and now to Cody. 
 

It is possible to recover from whipping boy status. 

[Numark3]

1 hour ago, Hebert19 said:

If that 8M goes to a guy that's better then we are in the business of winning. 

no.  Because right now we have a spare 8 million going to no one right now that can go to someone else. 

[Shaw66]

14 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Murphy (and Star) get paid too much for what they do.  You can't keep Murphy at $8M/year.  Murphy had a good game vs Houston and now all of a sudden he is clutch.  The rest of the year he wasn't anything spectacular.  Counting on Murphy and Star to make your defense stout is like counting on a car air freshener to make an outhouse smell good.

Two things about this.   

 

First, once the guy is on your team, what you're paying him is not very relevant.   The question is solely about whether he's helping your team and doing what you want him to do.   Every team every year has guys who are getting more than what they'd be worth if they immediately became free agents, and other guys who are getting paid less than they should.   It's just in the nature of how compensation works in the league.  

 

The only question is whether he's doing his job.   I'm guessing that the OP and people who are backing Murphy have it right.   If he weren't doing his job, the Bills probably would have cut him to realize the savings.   The fact that they didn't cut him suggests McD likes what they're getting from him.   

 

My recollection is that Murphy in an interview sometime late last season, when his play had picked up and he was making a difference, Murphy said that he finally was recovered from his surgery.   Essentially he said that he still wasn't right when the 2019 season began.   That would help explain why his play improved, and it also would be part of the reason that the Bills are keeping him.   

 

Plus, as we know, McDermott loves the guy's intensity.  McD wants guys like that on the team, to model their behavior for other players.   Murphy's a mad dog committed to doing his job, and McD wants 60 of those.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

35 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If you are looking at his sacks you are missing his impact. His pressure rate ranks right there with the best in the league. He’s in the backfield often. He’s really good against the run as well (where Murphy has a target on his back in the run game). Murphy is an okay player. Clowney is a dominant player (albeit it sometimes inconsistent). 
 

There is a reason that Seattle is trying hard to bring him back.

 

Great player - not best in the league and thats what he's asking to be paid.  The injury history is very concerning though.  Seems like he is always banged up, and always missing time.  

[BillsFan2313]

Pass rush is a premium. Why are we trying to subtract. The more, the better. Who cares about his cap hit this year. We still have plenty of cap space.