If we add Yannick here is what our cap space my look like

[billsfan89]

13 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

With the exception of Morse and Beasley those were all bargain signings.

 

The Bills only had 3 signings last off-season of 7 million aav or more (Mitch, Brown, and Beasley) the bulk of the signings were mid-level or lower type deals. A really masterful job to improve the offense without a relatively huge spending spree. Even then the Brown and Beasley deals are easy to get out of after 2020. 

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

He has 4 years of experience not 3, registering 8, 12, 9.5 and 8 sacks in his first four years.  

 

Most free agents become free agents at around 4-5 years experience after their rookie deals expire. Typically you want to invest big money in a player at around age 25-27 so that you get 3-4 years of prime production that complements what you are building through the draft. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I think you're mis-remembering based on WGR's quote.

 

He's saying as a team, this offseason isn't an overhaul. As such, we aren't going deep into FA like we did last year [by signing 19 new players]

 

That is how I took it too.  Not a huge FA in # of signings.  I think a big dollar signing could happen if it was the right fit.

 

The other thing not talked about much is the comment (I'll paraphrase) about "friends" of Beane/McDermott not affecting football

decisions.  Who could that possibly be?  DiMarco was one that came to mind and I'm almost scared to say another could be Star.

Would like to know if anyone has another name that could fit this "comment". 

 

I'm not a Star "hater" but an argument could be made about the value of keeping Phillips (if his $s are reasonable) over Star.

It's talked about his cap hit but everyone should remember that a player like Star could be designated a "post June 1" cut early

in the year.  That would split some of the dead cap over 2 years.

Edited January 8, 2020 by ColoradoBills

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, he's a young, experienced, and reasonably good DE coming off of his rookie contract. More than one team will see him as an upgrade, and he'll be paid as a consequence. I also think he's an excellent fit for Patriots-style defenses (e.g., Miami, NE, Detroit, Houston). I doubt the Bills see him in those terms, and won't match. He's going to the team that'll give him the best deal and the most guaranteed money. He'd be unwise not to.

Again, no disagreement here. He will have a price driven higher than we will be comfortable paying, all I'm saying is looking at the relative value of the potential FAs in terms upgrading a position and the dollars being spent, we would be more wise to invest in a top guy like Yannick. It could also be a Judon or the one who I want but wont hit FA Barrett. 

[Motorin']

This guy seems to play with the intensity of Jerry Hughes, and has the respect of the officials. https://www.jaguars.com/video/mic-d-up-yannick-ngakoue

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just now, Motorin' said:

This guy seems to play with the intensity of Jerry Hughes, and has the respect of the officials. https://www.jaguars.com/video/mic-d-up-yannick-ngakoue

 

good respect or 

 

bad respect 

 

like a Flag on nearly every QB "touch" 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I think you're mis-remembering based on WGR's quote.

 

He's saying as a team, this offseason isn't an overhaul. As such, we aren't going deep into FA like we did last year [by signing 19 new players]

 

No, that was a different part of the presser.  He made it clear that there won't be an offensive overhaul, and that we will focus on signing the guys we developed.

 

But in another place he specifically focused on talking about FA and about all the tiers of FA and types of FA moves there are.  I'll try to find it later, but I'm hoping a transcript will come out.

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

good respect or 

 

bad respect 

 

like a Flag on nearly every QB "touch" 

 

 

as opposed to Jerry.

[Dkollidas]

I wasn’t sure how they would address the edge position, but the way Beane talked about edge rushers yesterday I wouldn’t be surprised if they went after one in free agency.
 

As far back as we pick in round 1 (22nd overall), it’s hard to find an elite player at that position. It’s also a position worthy of the investment (QB, Edge, CB1, LT, WR1 are the main ones imo).

 

So his statement combined with those things makes me believe they intend to offer Shaq a fair deal, if he takes it they’ll balance that out by cutting Murphy. They’ll then try to go after an Ngakoue or Clowney to rotate, and replace Hughes who will likely be cut after the 2020 season if he has a year similar to, or worse than, this past season. 

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, Dkollidas said:

I wasn’t sure how they would address the edge position, but the way Beane talked about edge rushers yesterday I wouldn’t be surprised if they went after one in free agency.
 

As far back as we pick in round 1 (22nd overall), it’s hard to find an elite player at that position. It’s also a position worthy of the investment (QB, Edge, CB1, LT, WR1 are the main ones imo).

 

So his statement combined with those things makes me believe they intend to offer Shaq a fair deal, if he takes it they’ll balance that out by cutting Murphy. They’ll then try to go after an Ngakoue or Clowney to rotate, and replace Hughes who will likely be cut after the 2020 season if he has a year similar to, or worse than, this past season. 

 

Edge in RD1 in this draft is limited to about 2 great players, both who will be gone before we pick and there should be 2-3 WRs right around where we pick. Last years draft was a DL/DE draft, this years is a WR draft. 

[H2o]

Ngakoue had 1.5 more sacks on 320 more snaps than Lawson. I don't see Beane ponying up $17,000,000+ as season for him. I think the more likely scenario is we re-sign Lawson and get another Day 2 or early Day 3 DE whom they feel has upside at the position. 

[ILBillsfan]

10 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Trent Murphy was a good (not great, but certainly disruptive, dependable, and good) player this past season and was one of the best players on the field vs. Houston. Why do Bills fans want to cut good players when they have $98 million in cap space???

you know Murphy failed in i his gap responsibilities to set the edge and keep contain on the Watson outside runs?  the first TD was all on Murphy abandoning his positioning and not picking up the ball correctly.  I would much rather have Shaq(who was injured and should not of played Sunday but he did) than Murphy he was strong with his gap responsibility and got decent pressure (which is just as important as sacks).  He is younger and a better option than Murphy 

[Victory Formation]

I’d rather we cut Trent Murphy and re-sign Shaq Lawson to a 3yr deal for about $24m. Make a big splash on DE/OLB Bud Dupree out of Pittsburgh, 5yrs $50m $30m GTD. Between Dupree, Hughes, Johnson and Lawson we’re golden.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Sunshower

[wppete]

$17million? Way too much money. Pay our own, Draft well and strategically go after mid level Free Agents that fit our system with potential to succeed in the system with high character.

[dave mcbride]

21 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

you know Murphy failed in i his gap responsibilities to set the edge and keep contain on the Watson outside runs?  the first TD was all on Murphy abandoning his positioning and not picking up the ball correctly.  I would much rather have Shaq(who was injured and should not of played Sunday but he did) than Murphy he was strong with his gap responsibility and got decent pressure (which is just as important as sacks).  He is younger and a better option than Murphy 

Fair point, and thanks. I really do think Murphy had a good game overall (2 sacks and a lot of pressure), and my one rejoinder to your point is that it was an RPO play and the Houston run game was starting to gash the Bills. He bit on the run, which was understandable. Look -- at the end of the day, everyone on that defense, which had played so well through the first Houston series of the second half, did something wrong in the second half/OT.  As to your larger point, one is under contract and one isn't. And I suspect Lawson's deal is going to be bigger than Murphy's. 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by dave mcbride

[MJS]

I don't think I want him. Average sack production (that's been decreasing). He'll get paid like an elite player and he is only an above average player.

18 minutes ago, Sunshower said:

I’d rather we cut Trent Murphy and re-sign Shaq Lawson to a 3yr deal for about $24m. Make a big splash on DE/OLB Bud Dupree out of Pittsburgh, 5yrs $50m $30m GTD. Between Dupree, Hughes, Johnson and Lawson we’re golden.

What's the reason for resigning Lawson? He is easily replaceable. Decent run defender, below average pass rusher. I'd sign him to a short, cheap deal if he will take it, but my guess is there's a team out there willing to give him a decent sized contract for basically no reason.

[Coach Tuesday]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Fair point, and thanks. I really do think Murphy had a good game overall (2 sacks and a lot of pressure), and my one rejoinder to your point is that it was an RPO play and the Houston run game was starting to gash the Bills. He bit on the run, which was understandable. Look -- at the end of the day, everyone on that defense, which had played so well through the first Houston series of the second half, did something wrong in the second half/OT.  As to your larger point, one is under contract and one isn't. And I suspect Lawson's deal is going to be bigger than Murphy's. 

 

 

The thing is Dave, Murphy did that all year - he was selling out the run and chasing sacks all year.  He repeatedly lost contain.  Shaq isn’t as explosive off the snap but at least he sets the edge and for whatever reason, Shaq is super explosive when he gets near the ball carrier - he’s a slow starter and fast finisher.  I’m not saying it’s either/or necessarily.  But Murphy is a liability IMO.  The risks he takes don’t justify the upside IMO.
 

[ILBillsfan]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Fair point, and thanks. I really do think Murphy had a good game overall (2 sacks and a lot of pressure), and my one rejoinder to your point is that it was an RPO play and the Houston run game was starting to gash the Bills. He bit on the run, which was understandable. Look -- at the end of the day, everyone on that defense, which had played so well through the first Houston series of the second half, did something wrong in the second half/OT.  As to your larger point, one is under contract and one isn't. And I suspect Lawson's deal is going to be bigger than Murphy's. 

 

 

you can see him mouth the eff word knowing he made a mistake...drives me nuts as a defensive line coach for HS watching NFL guys do the exact thing we coach so hard for them not to and it starts even in the younger leagues outside contain....he new he lost the contain and was pissed

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

9 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

No. However, they were trying to get to a competitive status while starting to build through the draft. At this point, and Beane as much as said so in his presser, they don't need to add as much through free agency - certainly not in the high dollar range. Their focus will always primarily be drafting and signing their own.

 

With that said, I absolutley see them targeting certain positions in free agency. I just don't see them targeting top dollar free agents.

They should only be adding top level free agents at DE, RT and WR. Then the draft can be BPA. 

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The thing is Dave, Murphy did that all year - he was selling out the run and chasing sacks all year.  He repeatedly lost contain.  Shaq isn’t as explosive off the snap but at least he sets the edge and for whatever reason, Shaq is super explosive when he gets near the ball carrier - he’s a slow starter and fast finisher.  I’m not saying it’s either/or necessarily.  But Murphy is a liability IMO.  The risks he takes don’t justify the upside IMO.
 

None of the analytics sites actually support this. All have Murphy as the more productive player. While I have my issues with those sites and treat them with a grain of salt, the fact of the matter is that Murphy started every game while Lawson started none, and he played more snaps. Did the coaches make the right decision? I don't know, but I have a hunch that while they obviously want to stop the run, they recognize that a good pass defense is simply more important than a good run defense in today's NFL.  The Bills' defense prevented points because its pass D was so good. Murphy, regardless of sack totals, was a disruptive player on pass downs all season long. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

19 minutes ago, MJS said:

I don't think I want him. Average sack production (that's been decreasing). He'll get paid like an elite player and he is only an above average player.

What's the reason for resigning Lawson? He is easily replaceable. Decent run defender, below average pass rusher. I'd sign him to a short, cheap deal if he will take it, but my guess is there's a team out there willing to give him a decent sized contract for basically no reason.

Are you just afraid of them spending money? You overpay in free agency especially in Buffalo. But you can get good players while cap space is not an issue. 
 

you don’t want Yannick or shaq. Maybe you think they’ll spend the money on Clowney?

[Floydboy12]

I'd like to keep Lawson and Phillips. Don't know contract details but let Murphy walk. Draft an edge guy in first 3 rounds. Keep this team largely intact and add pieces. 

[billsfan89]

24 minutes ago, Chemical said:

Are you just afraid of them spending money? You overpay in free agency especially in Buffalo. But you can get good players while cap space is not an issue. 
 

you don’t want Yannick or shaq. Maybe you think they’ll spend the money on Clowney?

 

Your window to win in the NFL is always very limited unless you have a generational QB (and even then you have ups and downs as your cap situation will be in flux once they get off their rookie deal.) So if you have a QB on a rookie deal and a team that is coming off of a 10 win season you better take advantage of your chance to “go for it.” Now that’s not to say that the Bills need to go all in and screw the future. But you also can’t run the risk of being too conservative. If you have a 25/26 year old player who you might have to over pay but if you can plug a starting position with an elite player for 3-4 years that lines up with what the team is trying to do. You can’t always wait on the future. 

[ILBillsfan]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

None of the analytics sites actually support this. All have Murphy as the more productive player. While I have my issues with those sites and treat them with a grain of salt, the fact of the matter is that Murphy started every game while Lawson started none, and he played more snaps. Did the coaches make the right decision? I don't know, but I have a hunch that while they obviously want to stop the run, they recognize that a good pass defense is simply more important than a good run defense in today's NFL.  The Bills' defense prevented points because its pass D was so good. Murphy, regardless of sack totals, was a disruptive player on pass downs all season long. 

if you want more i'm sure there is more if you referring to PFF metrics I would like to see these because this was a bad habit all year for Murphy.  I would argue with the pass rush as most of the younger QB's today are stressing outside gap containment (ie Watson Mahomes Jackson) all will gladly stress your D by escaping the pocket and make secondary be put in no mans land with giving up the chunk yardage to run if you stay back or hit the open receiver as the coverage comes up to contain the rushing QB

[Penfield45]

6 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I think you're mis-remembering based on WGR's quote.

 

He's saying as a team, this offseason isn't an overhaul. As such, we aren't going deep into FA like we did last year [by signing 19 new players]

 

 

ugh this doesn't give me confidence for the future at all. 

 

this offseason is supposed to be our most important offseason in the last 30 years. we finally have a chance to break off and dominate this division but instead Beane wants to lay low??? our roster is not good enough, we massively overachieved this season with 10 wins. 

[dave mcbride]

13 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

if you want more i'm sure there is more if you referring to PFF metrics I would like to see these because this was a bad habit all year for Murphy.  I would argue with the pass rush as most of the younger QB's today are stressing outside gap containment (ie Watson Mahomes Jackson) all will gladly stress your D by escaping the pocket and make secondary be put in no mans land with giving up the chunk yardage to run if you stay back or hit the open receiver as the coverage comes up to contain the rushing QB

Good points; the afc east (6 games!), though, doesn’t feature any such qbs. Not saying it’s not important, but the first thing a coach and gm have to do is build a team to win the divisional games.

 

i was also referring to PFR’s AV rating, which is a bit of a mystery to me. That said, their sister site, baseball-reference, developed B-WAR, and it is awesome. I love that suite of sites. Best thing on the internet for sports fans. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by dave mcbride

[thebandit27]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Your misinterpreting. He’s saying they won’t be signing a ton of guys like last offseason.... expect them to sign upgrades at certain position.... at least that’s how I interpreted it.

And last year he said that they wouldn’t be very active in FA. Then they added 9 new starters on offense.

[Locomark]

Just cut Star and Murphy and there is your 19 million. Sign Yannick, draft another DE in round 2, resign Phillips and get Harry back and all is well and your cap has hardly gone up but your talent certainly has. 

 

If we spend on anything in needs to be on DE, RT, or WR. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

And last year he said that they wouldn’t be very active in FA. Then they added 9 new starters on offense.

19 New Players, plus the draft picks! Wowza!

 

Right now I have us signing 5 and re-signing 11 for my mock 2020 offseason.

[Reed83HOF]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Your window to win in the NFL is always very limited unless you have a generational QB (and even then you have ups and downs as your cap situation will be in flux once they get off their rookie deal.) So if you have a QB on a rookie deal and a team that is coming off of a 10 win season you better take advantage of your chance to “go for it.” Now that’s not to say that the Bills need to go all in and screw the future. But you also can’t run the risk of being too conservative. If you have a 25/26 year old player who you might have to over pay but if you can plug a starting position with an elite player for 3-4 years that lines up with what the team is trying to do. You can’t always wait on the future. 

As Beane has since called it a rebuild - we are 3 years in with a QB on his rookie deal who is trending upwards and a team that is a playoff team short on elite talent - time to sign a a couple impact players to start getting us over the top

[thebandit27]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

19 New Players, plus the draft picks! Wowza!

 

Right now I have us signing 5 and re-signing 11 for my mock 2020 offseason.

I haven’t really drawn it up yet, but re-signs include McKenzie (RFA), Stanford, KJ, Coleman. I’m fine letting Spain, Shaq, and Jordan walk. I’m definitely kicking Ford to LG and going with Nsekhe at RT.

 

From there I’m going hard after Hyde, Green, and Clowney. I’ll take Covington as my DT3 and George Fant as my swing OT. Then I can rest easy and wait for wave 2 to grab depth at LB and S.

[Reed83HOF]

10 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I haven’t really drawn it up yet, but re-signs include McKenzie (RFA), Stanford, KJ, Coleman. I’m fine letting Spain, Shaq, and Jordan walk. I’m definitely kicking Ford to LG and going with Nsekhe at RT.

 

From there I’m going hard after Hyde, Green, and Clowney. I’ll take Covington as my DT3 and George Fant as my swing OT. Then I can rest easy and wait for wave 2 to grab depth at LB and S.

Question - why do you think they sign Clowney now, when they could have traded for him? He did go for a 3rd...

 

Not being a turd, just curious regarding your thoughts...

[offyourocker]

4 hours ago, Floydboy12 said:

I'd like to keep Lawson and Phillips. Don't know contract details but let Murphy walk. Draft an edge guy in first 3 rounds. Keep this team largely intact and add pieces. 

I would be very surprised if Phillips is back next year

[thebandit27]

8 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Question - why do you think they sign Clowney now, when they could have traded for him? He did go for a 3rd...

 

Not being a turd, just curious regarding your thoughts...

I doubt that they will; this is what I would do.

[Coach Tuesday]

9 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

As Beane has since called it a rebuild - we are 3 years in with a QB on his rookie deal who is trending upwards and a team that is a playoff team short on elite talent - time to sign a a couple impact players to start getting us over the top

Beane was referring to the remake of the offense last offseason as a “rebuild” IIRC.  He took ownership for bungling the offense in 2018 and acknowledged the need to rebuild the offensive line and WR group. 

[WideRightRevenge]

17 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Jerry just revealed he played 2019 with torn ligaments in his wrist. When it came to the playoff game and a 1 and done scenario he was the most disruptive player on our defense Saturday logging 4 tackles & 3 sacks while causing a couple others.

 

I agree Jerry had an awesome playoff game ... guess my comment was driven by looking more long term .. he'll be 32 at start of next year and beyond the playoff game (ligament issue aside for 2019)  it's a $9MM cap hit ... its kind of like groundhog day ... hard to believe he's been with us since 2013 ... but are his best year's behind him and time to look a little longer term and retool with younger talent .. hence my commentary on using his salary towards signing Yannick.  Age wise he certainly has more runway at this stage of his career.

[Cripple Creek]

On 1/8/2020 at 5:10 AM, Chandler#81 said:

According to some guy named Brandon, that’s not how the team is and will be constructed. Is Yannick great? Yes. Unfortunately for him, the Bills didn’t Draft him. Otherwise he’d likely get re-signed to a greater contract.

I disagree.  He will be more focused in his approach than last off season, but, you can't do everything via the draft and Beane knows this (IMO).  

 

IIWGM he would be my number 1 (this off season).  There are two things you rarely find via FA, franchise QBs and rush DEs.  We need one and fortuitously there's one right there waiting for his welcome to Buffalo.  Soon your keyboard will look like this:

 

 

It's never too early to know his thoughts on deers, somebody, please, get to work on this.

[billsfan89]

16 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

As Beane has since called it a rebuild - we are 3 years in with a QB on his rookie deal who is trending upwards and a team that is a playoff team short on elite talent - time to sign a a couple impact players to start getting us over the top

 

The team isn't that many pieces away from being a serious contender but they can't fill all of their needs through the draft. I hope they at least add a impact pass rusher to help the pass rush against the Pats and other elite offenses and possibly another mid-level player at linebacker or corner. They need to add those 2-3 pieces in free agency then fill in the remaining 2 needs via the draft. They can't get too conservative forfeiting a chance to win now in order to preserve a future that might not be there. 

[Dkollidas]

The thing I like about him is his age (turns 25 in March). 
You can sign him to a 5yr deal and not have to deal with his 30’s.

 

Beane states how difficult it is to find edge rushers in the NFL. To have a guy that young with that much production become a UFA is extremely enticing. 
 

 

[RochesterRob]

   While Yannick looks to be a very good option I don't think that we need both him and Star on the roster together.  I think Yannick stays with Jacksonville when it is all done.

[Reed83HOF]

7 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The team isn't that many pieces away from being a serious contender but they can't fill all of their needs through the draft. I hope they at least add a impact pass rusher to help the pass rush against the Pats and other elite offenses and possibly another mid-level player at linebacker or corner. They need to add those 2-3 pieces in free agency then fill in the remaining 2 needs via the draft. They can't get too conservative forfeiting a chance to win now in order to preserve a future that might not be there. 

People have to keep in mind there is Coach/GM speak and while they are technically correct about how they want to build, they also must feel the urgency of the expiring rookie contracts in 2021 & onwards & shore up those positions while they can - they don't have the luxury of a 5-7 year rebuild to find every core premier player in the draft. They need to push the chips to the middle of the table on the premier FAs they can't get through this draft (obviously not crazy overspending). 

2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

   While Yannick looks to be a very good option I don't think that we need both him and Star on the roster together.  I think Yannick stays with Jacksonville when it is all done.

They are $1.5M over the cap, need about $10M for their rookie class - it all comes down to how far they want to cut. They can restructure Campbell, but that will only do so much  they are in a fairly tight situation and face a very tough decision. At the end of the day, that franchise is screwed for the next couple years with the cap.

 

Austin Hooper and the Falcons are in the same boat, cutting can be done to re-sign him - how deep do you go if you do and is it worth it in the end?