Grading Beane, McDermott, OC, DC, and JA

[jletha]

5 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Ugh Beckham did just as fine as Brown. And FOH with Randall Cobb and Giants and Jets offense lol. They were all dumpster fires. Never said Beane was. 

 

Smoke didn't join an offense with Jarvis Landry or Amari Cooper eh?

 

 

I love Smoke and Beasley but they shouldn't be going up against the top CBs in the league. They're perfect as the 2 and 3. I'll happily give Beane an A in time if he can get the group to par. B is still waiting on him to wow me with the roster

Dude, wut? Brown had more yards and more TDs and costs a fraction of the money and 0 picks. THAT IS WHAT A GOOD GM DOES.

 

And yes their offense was dumpster fires but they paid more $$$ for that dumpster fire than we did. Now we are a 10 win team in the playoffs with $90 mill in cap space.

 

Again, that is what a good GM does.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

I'm just having a retrospective of possibly my favorite Bills season to date lol.

 

Of course we don't know how to handle it.. it never happens!

Kelvin Benjamin still irks me. Disliked him in Carolina

I thought the thread was about this year. KB has been gone since before the end of last season. 

 

The board seems all over the place on this one, so who are we crediting for our success this year?

Edited January 3, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[jletha]

1 minute ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Sure if an A+ is putting together the greatest show on turf over one off-season where does that put Beane..? A front office HC A and GM A is a 15-1 team. It's just my grading curve lol. B-/A is a great FO

Why would you allow a loss? You need higher expectations.

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, jletha said:

Why would you allow a loss? You need higher expectations.

Cuz they qualified for playoffs in week 14 and sat out starters. When Beane puts together the greatest show on turf he'll be the man.

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I thought the thread was about this year 

Eh it's a missing WR we coulda had this year. GMs are graded on their past since they don't really actively affect the team over just one season.

Edited January 3, 2020 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[Bing Bong]

11 minutes ago, jletha said:

Dude, wut? Brown had more yards and more TDs and costs a fraction of the money and 0 picks. THAT IS WHAT A GOOD GM DOES.

 

And yes their offense was dumpster fires but they paid more $$$ for that dumpster fire than we did. Now we are a 10 win team in the playoffs with $90 mill in cap space.

 

Again, that is what a good GM does.

10 wins is what a good HC does. Dude I'm not going to be wowed over a FA WR1 that just scratches 1000 yards.. it happens all the damn time. Someone has to get targets. Look at every team's WR1

 

If you really want to go into it Jarvis had a better season than Smoke.. AND HE WAS ALREADY ON THE ROSTER. Whoa imagine signing a good WR to an already great WR group. You're the one bringing up a team with 2 1K WRs to a WR discussion

Edited January 3, 2020 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[JerseyBills]

Beane - A+

McD - A

Daboll - B-

Frazier - B+

Allen - B

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Beane is an easy A. He turned the entire roster in 2 years, may have found his QB and has $90m+ in cap space. He’s the most responsible IMO.

 

Easy A is too generous IMHO. 

 

Yes, he did turn the roster over.  Yes he drafted JA.

 

He also inherited the 10th top scoring offense and after 3 years has turned it into the 23rd.  I view before the third year of your rebuild if you have to flush 9/11 of your offense and start over and still they can't score as kind of a fail.

 

And IMHO you don't give a guy an easy A until the QB he drafted IS a great QB (which JA is not (yet hopefully)).

 

B-

Edited January 3, 2020 by reddogblitz

[billsfan89]

Beane A+ - Completely rebuilt the O-line, had another draft that looks to be producing multiple starters at critical positions, and added some pieces to the skill position core including Brown and Beasley who are quality professional receivers. Also added Roberts who completely stabilized the return game which improved the ST unit. All without locking this team into many contracts that can't be out after 2020 and still saving a lot of space for next off-season. 

 

McD A+ - This team plays disciplined and always seems to have good composure. The only blowout loss was the Eagles game (and the Eagles were a winning team this year) and the team won many close games and ended up taking care of a lot of bad opponents. Just a fantastic Coach of the Year type job. 

 

Frazier A - The defense has played well, not sure if he is going the play calling but he is doing something right as the defense just plays so well and has adjusted its run defense after a lapse in the middle of the season. 

 

Daboll B - This is a slightly below average NFL offense. BUT when you take into account that the offense has 9 new starters, a young growing QB who was a bit of a project coming out and still lacks in some areas you can kind of call it a success to get this unit to play just below average. Allen has also taken a step up in year two even if he still has some more development needed. 

 

Allen B minus - Allen has come in and improved a lot but he still isn't a top 10 or possibly even top 15 QB. He needs to not miss as many easy throws and process the game quicker. But not everything is going to come year one and he played both clutch and cut down on turnovers a lot. So I give him a slightly above average grade. Let see how he does with another off-season in and a couple of extra weapons to go to. 

[CorkScrewHill]

Nice article just dropped by The Ringer that really speaks to the path forward for this team. Only 1 Defensive starter is an UDFA (Lorenzo Alexander) .. with Levi Wallace a RFA and no real high ticket-priced guys. This speaks to Beane (acquiring reasonable priced talent) and McDermott (getting the most out of them)

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2020/1/3/21048726/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-playoffs-wild-card-texans

[billsfan89]

4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Easy A is too generous IMHO. 

 

Yes, he did turn the roster over.  Yes he drafted JA.

 

He also inherited the 10th top scoring offense and after 3 years has turned it into the 23rd.  I view before the third year of your rebuild if you have to flush 9/11 of your offense and start over and still they can't score as kind of a fail.

 

And IMHO you don't give a guy an easy A until the QB he drafted IS a great QB (which JA is not (yet hopefully)).

 

B-

 

By your logic he also turned a middling defensive unit on a capped out team into a top 2 defensive unit with a long term great cap situation. The 2016 team McBeane inherited finished 7-9 with a bad cap situation. I can't exactly think he should be given a negative for gutting that "wild success."

[John from Riverside]

Anybody that gives Beane anything less then a A needs to re evaluate

[leonbus23]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

How much did you expect in one offsesason with 9 new starters on offense and multiple new backups/reserves? I mean c'mon bro, let's be realistic here. I know it doesn't matter in Madden and you can just plug and play anyone and not suffer any dropoff but this is real life and it matters---a LOT.

Nah. Teams turn around in one season with new players. In fact, it's the new players that turn the team around quickly. On top of that  some new players were veterans like Morse, Gore, Beasley and Brown. The fact is that the offense didn't show much most of this season. Whether it's Daboll or the players or a combo is certainly up for debate.

Edited January 3, 2020 by leonbus23

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Right. I guess my point is I'm giving a lot of that culture to McDermott's job as HC. I'm probably just grading on a curve here to make McD stand out more, but Beane's been more than good enough to stick with. Not calling for his head or anything. Y'all be complaining about a B-..

I'd have called it worth it had they beaten the Patriots. Thought the GM was doing great until they resigned Gurley. Also quite a bit of bad luck with his injury.

 

Continuing to trade high picks this year was not smart

[reddogblitz]

23 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

By your logic he also turned a middling defensive unit on a capped out team into a top 2 defensive unit with a long term great cap situation. The 2016 team McBeane inherited finished 7-9 with a bad cap situation. I can't exactly think he should be given a negative for gutting that "wild success."

 

That's true.  But you gotta be at least average in all phases of the game if you are lights out in one.  Last year Chiefs were lights out on O and pedestrian on D and look what it got them.  Same could be said for Falcons a few years ago.

 

This is the 3rd year of the rebuild. Should be just about done.  Mostly is, but the O still stinks.

 

My response was that he didn't deserve an A+.  To get an A+, a GM needs to have at least one hide on the wall IMHO.

 

I don't give anyone credit for salary cap room, it's what you do with it which he hasn't had a chance yet.  Stay tuned ...

 

Go BILLS !!

Edited January 3, 2020 by reddogblitz

[Bing Bong]

5 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

That's true.  But you gotta be at least average in all phases of the game if you are lights out in one.  Last year Chiefs were lights out on O and pedestrian on D and look what it got them.  Same could be said for Falcons a few years ago.

 

This is the 3rd year of the rebuild. Should be just about done.  Mostly is, but the O still stinks.

 

My response was that he didn't deserve an A+.  To get an A+, a GM needs to have at least one hide on the wall IMHO.

 

I don't give anyone credit for salary cap room, it's what you do with it which he hasn't had a chance yet.  Stay tuned ...

 

Go BILLS !!

Yep. My rationale is I can't give a GM an A for putting out dog doodoo on one side of the ball.

25 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Anybody that gives Beane anything less then a A needs to re evaluate

I'd give my left nut to still have Robert Woods on the roster

Edited January 3, 2020 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[reddogblitz]

1 minute ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Yep. My rationale is I can't give a GM an A for putting out dog doodoo on one side of the ball.

 

After 3 years.

[JoPoy88]

Pretty fair grades @BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P 

 

I would give Beane an A- though - he turned over the offense as best he could in one offseason. He brought in 2 legitimate NFL wideouts, when last year there was really only practice squad level talent there. Drafted what looks like a very good RB. Drafted two TEs, one of whom contributes regularly, drops aside. Partially fixed the offensive line with a premier center, a high draft pick and decent free agents. Pretty solid work in one year.

[Kirby Jackson]

54 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Easy A is too generous IMHO. 

 

Yes, he did turn the roster over.  Yes he drafted JA.

 

He also inherited the 10th top scoring offense and after 3 years has turned it into the 23rd.  I view before the third year of your rebuild if you have to flush 9/11 of your offense and start over and still they can't score as kind of a fail.

 

And IMHO you don't give a guy an easy A until the QB he drafted IS a great QB (which JA is not (yet hopefully)).

 

B-

Agree to disagree

 

To me he is the person most responsible for the position that they are in. Drafted great and signed the right guys. Still has a ton of cap space

Edited January 3, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[billsfan89]

12 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Pretty fair grades @BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P 

 

I would give Beane an A- though - he turned over the offense as best he could in one offseason. He brought in 2 legitimate NFL wideouts, when last year there was really only practice squad level talent there. Drafted what looks like a very good RB. Drafted two TEs, one of whom contributes regularly, drops aside. Partially fixed the offensive line with a premier center, a high draft pick and decent free agents. Pretty solid work in one year.

 

How much more would he have had to have done to get an A+? He found 4 offensive line starters, 2 wideouts, a starting running back, young TE's with potential, and depth. He also found a gem D-line player in the draft and did so without tying the team down in any long term contracts that are hard to get out of beyond 2020. So I don't see how much better he could have done without capping out the team or compromising their cap situation long term. 

[reddogblitz]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Agree to disagree

 

To me he is the person most responsible for the position that they are in. Drafted great and signed the right guys. Still has a ton of cap space

 

I agree Beane is doing a good job.  Just not an easy A job. 

 

Passing on the top 3 young QBs in the AFC and then taking Josh Allen is not easy A drafting.  Josh is good and may some day be great, but he's not even in the same ball yard as the other 3.

 

I need to see more for an easy A.  A playoff win at home would be good place to start.

 

What we have so far is a good start at an easy A IMHO

[John from Riverside]

38 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Yep. My rationale is I can't give a GM an A for putting out dog doodoo on one side of the ball.

I'd give my left nut to still have Robert Woods on the roster

So would I.....he didnt want to be here.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

It's too early.  Wait til the season's over.

....well for Nix that was pre-Thanksgiving when the season was "officially over" and his alarm was set for 11:59AM on Draft Day.........so perhaps we're in a bit better shape......SMH.............

[reddogblitz]

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....well for Nix that was pre-Thanksgiving when the season was "officially over" and his alarm was set for 11:59AM on Draft Day.........so perhaps we're in a bit better shape......SMH.............

 

We are.

 

If your big brother always skipped class and got Fs, should your teacher grade you on thanksgiving or wait til the year's over?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

You graded Beane a B- over the offense he assembled?? 
He is a gm of the year candidate based mostly off of the offense he assembled in one offseason really. He hit homeruns on almost every signing and draft pick. 
They built an offensive line with 4 new players and depth. 
Not in love with Beasley and Smoke? Why? What more did you want to see from them? Besides coles few drops he’s been amazing. 
There are not many, if any success stories for an offense similar to what Beane just accomplished this season adding this many players on offense. I won’t worry about grades for the others until I see what they do for the postseason, because honestly a good showing changes everyone else’s grades. 
But Beane deserves an A or an A+ without a doubt regardless of the postseason. 
 

Beane may be a “GM of the year” candidate for some, but BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P ain’t buying it. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

We are.

 

If your big brother always skipped class and got Fs, should your teacher grade you on thanksgiving or wait til the year's over?

 

...HINT: major sarcasm.....

[reddogblitz]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...HINT: major sarcasm.....

 

I have a hard time enough with sarcasm in person. In the written word, I'm clueless LOL ?‍♀️

Edited January 3, 2020 by reddogblitz

[Rc2catch]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I have a hard time enough with sarcasm in person. In the written word, I'm clueless LOL ?‍♀️

Me too. I can never tell I’m soooooo gullible 

[JoPoy88]

46 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

How much more would he have had to have done to get an A+? He found 4 offensive line starters, 2 wideouts, a starting running back, young TE's with potential, and depth. He also found a gem D-line player in the draft and did so without tying the team down in any long term contracts that are hard to get out of beyond 2020. So I don't see how much better he could have done without capping out the team or compromising their cap situation long term. 

if he would have landed an elite WR i would have given him an A+.

[Manther]

Beane - A+

McD - A

Daboll - B

Frazier - B+

JA - B 

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Beane is an easy A. He turned the entire roster in 2 years, may have found his QB and has $90m+ in cap space. He’s the most responsible IMO.

 

McDermott is an A-/B+ from me. Culture is fantastic. Team is disciplined and prepared. Clock management and challenges still need work.

 

Daboll is a B- from me. He’s not creative enough in the red zone for me. I also think Josh needs to run early in games to get into the flow. 
 

Frazier is an A-. He’s done a nice job with a really talented defense. My only gripe is that I’d like them to attack a touch more.

 

Josh is a B-. He has shown flashes of what he can become. He needs to be more accurate and consistent. He’s taking the steps though. If he keeps on this trajectory he’s going to be a really good NFL QB.

 

This is where I am at except I would give Daboll a C+.  I think he has a terrible flow to his game and doesn't do much in the beginning to get Josh into a rhythm.

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

if he would have landed an elite WR i would have given him an A+.

 

So in order to get an A+ you want him to fix every single problem with a 6-10 team in a single off-season while also not putting them in a bad cap situation? Seems a little unrealistic. He fixed the O-line with only one major FA contract (Mitch) and only one major draft asset (Cody), he found a good RB in round 3, found a good pair of WR's to improve that core, drafted a pair of TE's with potential, and added a big time piece to the D-line all while adding an All-Pro caliber return man to sure up the biggest weakness of the special teams unit all while keeping the team in a good cap situation but you know A-.  

[Bing Bong]

49 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

So in order to get an A+ you want him to fix every single problem with a 6-10 team in a single off-season while also not putting them in a bad cap situation? Seems a little unrealistic. He fixed the O-line with only one major FA contract (Mitch) and only one major draft asset (Cody), he found a good RB in round 3, found a good pair of WR's to improve that core, drafted a pair of TE's with potential, and added a big time piece to the D-line all while adding an All-Pro caliber return man to sure up the biggest weakness of the special teams unit all while keeping the team in a good cap situation but you know A-.  

He's had 3 years. And not fix every problem, but at least have an offense that isn't dog doodoo. 

[JoPoy88]

50 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

So in order to get an A+ you want him to fix every single problem with a 6-10 team in a single off-season while also not putting them in a bad cap situation? Seems a little unrealistic. He fixed the O-line with only one major FA contract (Mitch) and only one major draft asset (Cody), he found a good RB in round 3, found a good pair of WR's to improve that core, drafted a pair of TE's with potential, and added a big time piece to the D-line all while adding an All-Pro caliber return man to sure up the biggest weakness of the special teams unit all while keeping the team in a good cap situation but you know A-.  

jesus calm down kiddo. A- is an Excellent grade for an excellent job. A+ would be a grade for a perfect job. Sorry I don’t think he did a “perfect” job. Way too sensitive bro. 

[Nihilarian]

6 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

It's too early.  Wait til the season's over.

I agree with this. The Bills season isn't over and the team has a chance to earn a playoff win.

 

My advice would be to simplify the offense as Daboll attempts to out think everyone...and yet lost to Freddie Kitchens...

 

Get the run game and short passing games working and move the chains. Keep Watt out of the picture.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Was trying to recall when we hired McD 3 years ago, who were the other people they interviewed?  And who else did people here want interviewed and hired for HC of those they interviewed?  I do recall McD was far from the top choice around here.

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

Whatever happens I think we are setup for future success and should be competing for playoffs and more for the foreseeable future. That was a goal for our head office.

 

Remember the defense has had three years to gel together. I’m more excited about where this offense will be next year and beyond.

 

 

 

 

We need a game breaking WR,  a stout OL that will not bend and Edge Pass Rushing. 

[Boatdrinks]

7 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I agree Beane is doing a good job.  Just not an easy A job. 

 

Passing on the top 3 young QBs in the AFC and then taking Josh Allen is not easy A drafting.  Josh is good and may some day be great, but he's not even in the same ball yard as the other 3.

 

I need to see more for an easy A.  A playoff win at home would be good place to start.

 

What we have so far is a good start at an easy A IMHO

Did Beane pass on the top 3 young QBs in the AFC ?  Seems to be some disparity between your opinion and the facts here. 

[MJS]

Beane: A

(Nothing to complain of. He's brought in a lot of talent, had great drafts, manages the cap well, gets draft picks for guys we should be cutting, and has over 80 million of cap space to play with next year)

 

McDermott: A-

(I think he still needs some game day decision making improvement, but the team he's built, the culture, the way he has everything running, etc. is all great)

 

Daboll: C-

(Below average offense gets a below average grade. I disagree with some of his decisions. For instance, TE screen on 3rd and 10 plus? Why would that ever work? I think he out smarts himself (and his players) sometimes. Not sold on him, but I'm fine keeping him so we can see more)

 

Frazier: A+

(Elite defense, but some of the credit for the has to go to McDermott, I feel. The defense seems to be a joint venture between the two)

 

Josh Allen: B

(He's developing. He's a gamer. He comes through when it matters most. Just has to get more consistent and continue to learn the game)

 

[Bill_with_it]

12 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

The board seems all over the place on this one, so who are we crediting for our success this year? I wanted a topic specifically gathering our opinions on the big 5. Let's be respectful of others opinions as I feel there is a lot of disagreement here:

 

Beane: B- not in love with the offense he's assembled, especially our poor decisions with receivers although I understand he hasn't had much time to focus on it. Kudos for the defense but I have to give McDermott props on the secondary since he made most of it before Beane got on board and is a DB coach.

 

McDermott: A+++ the man I give full credit to for this year. Dude's a keeper. I strongly believe HC's should get the lion's share of credit for a good year (see Kitchens blowing it with a talented roster). Beane brings the talent, McDermott brought the winning culture. Not to mention his work on the secondary I mentioned in Beane's grade.

 

Daboll: D the offense just isn't up to snuff. I understand he's not working with much, but I always get frustrated every Sunday with something he does. Granted I don't know much about exactly what his contribution as OC brings to the table but IMO not a fan.

 

Frazier: A- fantastic job. Only thing i'd criticize is I want to see more blitz but what do I know? His unit has been fantastic this year.

 

Josh Allen: B a complete enigma. Every Sunday I alternate every series with being fed up with him.. and next series I'm amazed at a 3rd and long he completes. JA may be the most polarizing figure on here so I'll just leave this with an average grade and say while I want to see more.. he's been good enough and he's my franchise QB for now!

Id say the proof is in the delicious pudding. Championships usually dont happen overnight. They werent going to happen with the last crew period. Culture matters, accountability matters, and team over a single player matters. 

[The Frankish Reich]

20 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Beane is an easy A. He turned the entire roster in 2 years, may have found his QB and has $90m+ in cap space. He’s the most responsible IMO.

 

McDermott is an A-/B+ from me. Culture is fantastic. Team is disciplined and prepared. Clock management and challenges still need work.

 

Daboll is a B- from me. He’s not creative enough in the red zone for me. I also think Josh needs to run early in games to get into the flow. 
 

Frazier is an A-. He’s done a nice job with a really talented defense. My only gripe is that I’d like them to attack a touch more.

 

Josh is a B-. He has shown flashes of what he can become. He needs to be more accurate and consistent. He’s taking the steps though. If he keeps on this trajectory he’s going to be a really good NFL QB.

I agree. 100%.