Josh Allen Stat ... wow

[LB48]

On 12/23/2019 at 10:51 PM, Boatdrinks said:

Definitely a big improvement over his first 5 games this season. Encouraging for sure. 

Very encouraging.   He's on the right track and with more help in 2020 he will improve more!

[Kelly the Dog]

2 hours ago, Slack_in_MA said:

How much of that do you think was attributed to their salary cap/dead $ situation last year? Honest question.

Very little. Peterman was a farce. Vet was cheap. They chose wrong OL. WR. Kept bad OL coach. 

[WideNine]

I found it interesting to hear Allen mirror what I have thought for a while about his early game jitters. I just think that he is such a competitive player that he still comes into games too amped up, ready to hurdle defenders, and it takes him some time to get settled. That is why you tend to see those passes come out of his hands too soon with too much zip and so many off-platform throws early in games.

 

Needs to play some pickup basketball or something early in the morning to get some of that extra juice out of his system. That, and a few long scrambles earlier in games to take the edge off.

 

Then like a switch that gets turned on, his timing and feel for the game seem to sync up later before the half and in the second halves of games. I thought the Pats game was a game where we would have to run well, we didn't. Allen would have to take care not to turn over the ball, he did not turn it over. And our defense would have to shut down the run and cover Edelman, they did not do either very well. I also felt our offensive line gave up too much pressure against 4-man rush packages, we did not win the trenches on either side of the ball.

 

Yet the game was still there for the taking at the end...so close, and that bothers me the most. We are a play or two away, or a play maker or two away from taking over these kind of games.

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I kind of don't get this, Saint.  At least, I read criticism of Josh Allen, of Beane's handling of the offense, and of McDermott  and Daboll - and how!  on this board all the time.

 

Ultimately, if Josh succeeds he will be his own unique guy I think.

 

 

cant judge josh cause he’s raw, and had a bad cast 

can’t judge beane because of the cap situation

 

cant judge McD because he had josh and a talent strapped roster was a major feedback loop across a large portion up until about 2 months ago when it became uncool to have questions about any with the winning record back 

[34-78-83]

5 minutes ago, WideNine said:

I found it interesting to hear Allen mirror what I have thought for a while about his early game jitters. I just think that he is such a competitive player that he still comes into games too amped up, ready to hurdle defenders, and it takes him some time to get settled. That is why you tend to see those passes come out of his hands too soon with too much zip and so many off-platform throws early in games.

 

Needs to play some pickup basketball or something early in the morning to get some of that extra juice out of his system. That, and a few long scrambles earlier in games to take the edge off.

 

Then like a switch that gets turned on, his timing and feel for the game seem to sync up later before the half and in the second halves of games. I thought the Pats game was a game where we would have to run well, we didn't. Allen would have to take care not to turn over the ball, he did not turn it over. And our defense would have to shut down the run and cover Edelman, they did not do either very well. I also felt our offensive line gave up too much pressure against 4-man rush packages, we did not win the trenches on either side of the ball.

 

Yet the game was still there for the taking at the end...so close, and that bothers me the most. We are a play or two away, or a play maker or two away from taking over these kind of games.

I think all of that is extremely accurate. And no pun intended?

[Billsfan1972]

The Daniel Jones comparison is interesting because that is exactly how they should have used Allen last year, throw a lot & learn on the job with a losing team (6-10) & see what they had.....  But they didn't & now it is turning him into a game manager, when he was selected 7th to be the future (not Duck Hodges).

 

Again Sunday is an interesting case in point, wanting to prepare for the playoffs & don't risk injury, but also to let him loose.

 

The Bills coaching staff will probably play it close to the chest & again we'll be left wondering for the playoffs.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

44 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The Daniel Jones comparison is interesting because that is exactly how they should have used Allen last year, throw a lot & learn on the job with a losing team (6-10) & see what they had.....  But they didn't & now it is turning him into a game manager, when he was selected 7th to be the future (not Duck Hodges).

 

Again Sunday is an interesting case in point, wanting to prepare for the playoffs & don't risk injury, but also to let him loose.

 

The Bills coaching staff will probably play it close to the chest & again we'll be left wondering for the playoffs.

 

How was Allen supposed to throw a lot last year?  What OL did he have creating the opportunity?  What receivers did he have to target?

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

cant judge josh cause he’s raw, and had a bad cast 

can’t judge beane because of the cap situation

 

cant judge McD because he had josh and a talent strapped roster was a major feedback loop across a large portion up until about 2 months ago when it became uncool to have questions about any with the winning record back 

 

Huh.

 

If you can't do any of those things around here, how come I read them all constantly?

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Very little. Peterman was a farce. Vet was cheap. They chose wrong OL. WR. Kept bad OL coach. 

Beane’s words on the QB situation last year kinda summed it up for me: “AJ wasn’t who we thought he was.” Once that realization crystallized,  it was too late to effectively do much more than they did. And Beane has owned that mistake. 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Beane’s words on the QB situation last year kinda summed it up for me: “AJ wasn’t who we thought he was.” Once that realization crystallized,  it was too late to effectively do much more than they did. And Beane has owned that mistake. 

That was one of six.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Beane’s words on the QB situation last year kinda summed it up for me: “AJ wasn’t who we thought he was.” Once that realization crystallized,  it was too late to effectively do much more than they did. And Beane has owned that mistake. 

 

If you bring in a "gap year" vet QB who can't manage the offense your OC wants to run (one several vets have described as the most complex they've seen) .... maybe the thing to do is....simplify the offense so your "gap year" vet QB can run it? 

 

It's not like AJ can't throw in a real NFL game.  Of course, when he did so successfully he had a real OL and NFL quality WR/TE, so there's the question of our OL and receivers last year.

[78thealltimegreat]

I would just love Josh to be under the tutelage of a real offense guru with Brees coming to the end of the road give some on this board what they want and trade him to New Orleans for a 1...they get their next qb for 10 years and the Allen haters can start qb watching next years class 

[Billsfan1972]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How was Allen supposed to throw a lot last year?  What OL did he have creating the opportunity?  What receivers did he have to target?

 

Huh.

 

If you can't do any of those things around here, how come I read them all constantly?

Why do other rookie QB's drafted high & considered the "franchise/future" come out & are given every opportunity to shine.  

 

The Bills in 2018 were ready to roll with Peterman (so stupid in so many ways) & did very little on the offensive side of the ball.  A huge mistake & yet another reason  that the Bills are behind schedule on O....   

 

Again outside Rosen all highly drafted QB's have had big games in their first year, while Allen has had good/very good games, but no breakout performances......

[thebandit27]

On 12/25/2019 at 10:19 AM, whorlnut said:

Not to mention that some fans hold it against Allen because the Bills traded the pick that the Chiefs used on Mahomes. They also fail to realize that Mahomes at 10 was a HUGE reach at the time. 

 

No way. Mahomes was not a huge reach. He was a super talented kid that was viewed as needing a few technical refinements.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again outside Rosen all highly drafted QB's have had big games in their first year, while Allen has had good/very good games, but no breakout performances......

 

I'm losing count of the number of times you have said this exact thing, over and over with no added insight or information.

That's usually a sign of something.  Let's see....my failing memory perhaps?  No, no, I don't think that was it.

[DC Tom]

Josh Rosen has far more upside, though.

[Gugny]

7 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

Josh Rosen has far more upside, though.

 

After all, he was the most pro-ready QB in the draft.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Why do other rookie QB's drafted high & considered the "franchise/future" come out & are given every opportunity to shine.  

 

The Bills in 2018 were ready to roll with Peterman (so stupid in so many ways) & did very little on the offensive side of the ball.  A huge mistake & yet another reason  that the Bills are behind schedule on O....   

 

Again outside Rosen all highly drafted QB's have had big games in their first year, while Allen has had good/very good games, but no breakout performances......

Just curious—how many TD’s does a QB need to be responsible for before you would consider something “breakout?” Just reaching into the grab bag and pulling out the 2nd Miami game last year where Allen produced 5 TDs, for example. But actually, I’m more impressed with his come from behind wins than anything else 

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

After all, he was the most pro-ready QB in the draft.

 

He had prior insurance sales experience?

[Gugny]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm losing count of the number of times you have said this exact thing, over and over with no added insight or information.

That's usually a sign of something.  Let's see....my failing memory perhaps?  No, no, I don't think that was it.

 

Oh, I love this game!!!  Rhymes with "blue suede!!"

[Billsfan1972]

12 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Just curious—how many TD’s does a QB need to be responsible for before you would consider something “breakout?” Just reaching into the grab bag and pulling out the 2nd Miami game last year where Allen produced 5 TDs, for example. But actually, I’m more impressed with his come from behind wins than anything else 

Yep he has Miami's #....  Unfortunately the last three times coming from behind in the 4th failed (Cleveland, Baltimore & NE).....  And again I blame the coaching not Allen.

 

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm losing count of the number of times you have said this exact thing, over and over with no added insight or information.

That's usually a sign of something.  Let's see....my failing memory perhaps?  No, no, I don't think that was it.

I've brought up stats continually & blame the coaching as they have not allowed Allen to be unleashed & see exactly what they had.  They had Peterman start last year..... 

 

Take a look at every QB drafted top 15 & almost all have been quickly given the opportunity to sink or swim.  Deshawn Watson being a prime example.

 

Lamar too is who he is because Baltimore configured an offense for him & his skill set.

 

The offense is better but still 27th this year.....  

 

By the way 47 games into McD's tenure & not a 300 yard game......  Had to throw that in.  

[thebandit27]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep he has Miami's #....  Unfortunately the last three times coming from behind in the 4th failed (Cleveland, Baltimore & NE).....  And again I blame the coaching not Allen.

 

I've brought up stats continually & blame the coaching as they have not allowed Allen to be unleashed & see exactly what they had.  They had Peterman start last year..... 

 

Take a look at every QB drafted top 15 & almost all have been quickly given the opportunity to sink or swim.  Deshawn Watson being a prime example.

 

Lamar too is who he is because Baltimore configured an offense for him & his skill set.

 

The offense is better but still 27th this year.....  

 

By the way 47 games into McD's tenure & not a 300 yard game......  Had to throw that in.  

 

The offense is 22nd in points per game 

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

No way. Mahomes was not a huge reach. He was a super talented kid that was viewed as needing a few technical refinements.

He was a reach at 10. Show me one mock that had him that high. 

[Augie]

57 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm losing count of the number of times you have said this exact thing, over and over with no added insight or information.

That's usually a sign of something.  Let's see....my failing memory perhaps?  No, no, I don't think that was it.

 

Is “breakout games” code for “300 yard games”? 

 

 

.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Augie

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

He was a reach at 10. Show me one mock that had him that high. 

 

I don't know about mocks. I do know, however, that both NO and one other team were trying to get ahead to get ahead of Arizona at 13 to get him.

 

Of course, I said he should go #1 overall, but what do I know?

?

[Luka]

If Josh Allen was in a different offense he would be more successful, statistically speaking. Hopefully that happens in the offseason. I know people love to make excuses for Daboll but he just isn't good. What kind of modern NFL offense doesn't run screens? And they even got TJ Yeldon which made me think we were finally going to run screens. But no. I mean I hate to break it to you guys that are arguing about his completion percentage but a lot of these QBs with high completion percentages, they throw a lot of successful screens.

[CorkScrewHill]

37 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep he has Miami's #....  Unfortunately the last three times coming from behind in the 4th failed (Cleveland, Baltimore & NE).....  And again I blame the coaching not Allen.

 

I've brought up stats continually & blame the coaching as they have not allowed Allen to be unleashed & see exactly what they had.  They had Peterman start last year..... 

 

Take a look at every QB drafted top 15 & almost all have been quickly given the opportunity to sink or swim.  Deshawn Watson being a prime example.

 

Lamar too is who he is because Baltimore configured an offense for him & his skill set.

 

The offense is better but still 27th this year.....  

 

By the way 47 games into McD's tenure & not a 300 yard game......  Had to throw that in.  

 But two play-off appearances .... had to throw that in

Edited December 26, 2019 by CorkScrewHill

[Billsfan1972]

46 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

The offense is 22nd in points per game 

Sorry meant to add passing....  27th in passing is not good by any measure.

[Scott7975]

12 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Sorry meant to add passing....  27th in passing is not good by any measure.

 

 Josh is 20th in passing yards.  Right behind Lamar who is only 43 yards better.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Scott7975

[Billsfan1972]

31 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 Josh is 20th in passing yards.  Right behind Lamar who is only 43 yards better.

However 27th in team passing, which is the proper measure.  He is too 29th in yards/gm (ahead of only Case Keenum, Jacoby Brissett & Mason Rudolph!!!!!!  Yep but more passing yards then Drew Brees, for which there is a simple explanation..  He has missed 1 quarter all year.  You really aren't that stupid are you?  Do you really want to go there?

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/index.htm

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/passingYardsPerGame/dir/desc

 

BTW Baltimore is 13-2 & Lamar truly could shut it down in many games as they were well ahead, while the Bills shut it down often of their own accord & then needed points in the fourth.

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

29 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

 

BTW Baltimore is 13-2 & Lamar truly could shut it down in many games as they were well ahead, while the Bills shut it down often of their own accord & then needed points in the fourth.

 

 

 

Baltimore blows people out.    They don’t shut it down with a lead like McDermott/Dabs. 

 

How much longer are you gonna carry on ? 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Baltimore blows people out.    They don’t shut it down with a lead like McDermott/Dabs. 

 

How much longer are you gonna carry on ? 

They don't throw a whole lot either.

 

When will you realize that 29th in yards per game passing is terrible. .  This is now 3 years running.

 

The fact people here defend it is laughable.  What if the Bills were 29th in Defense, can you imagine the uproar?

[Teddy KGB]

17 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

They don't throw a whole lot either.

 

When will you realize that 29th in yards per game passing is terrible. .  This is now 3 years running.

 

The fact people here defend it is laughable.  What if the Bills were 29th in Defense, can you imagine the uproar?

 

Lets whine about woulda, shoulda, could haves.

 

While ignoring the whole winning and clinched playoffs thing ??‍♂️??

 

This is dumb.    I don’t get it 

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Teddy KGB

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

He was a reach at 10. Show me one mock that had him that high. 

Who cares what a mock says?  He is a reach because Mel Kiper says so?  One of the best offensive coaches of his generation had a qb who takes them to the playoffs every year and traded up for him to let him develop for a year rather than take a player that could help him.  That means a million more than what Mel Kiper or McShay thinks.  
 

it’s amazing how much people value their rankings and mocks.  They are purely entertainment.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Lets whine about woulda, shoulda, could haves.

 

While ignoring the whole winning and clinched playoffs thing ??‍♂️??

 

This is dumb.    I don’t get it 

 

Again ignore the facts and that he is 29th in passing.  If I thought Allen was terrible then I'd be talking about the need to get rid of him and get better.  The fact is I think he is the future and he is stunted by the coaching staff 

 

Think it cost them 2-3 wins too.

 

Very simple question, are you okay that we are 29th in the league in passing yards per game (32nd last year)?

Edited December 26, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Logic]

4 hours ago, Luka said:

If Josh Allen was in a different offense he would be more successful, statistically speaking. Hopefully that happens in the offseason. I know people love to make excuses for Daboll but he just isn't good. What kind of modern NFL offense doesn't run screens? And they even got TJ Yeldon which made me think we were finally going to run screens. But no. I mean I hate to break it to you guys that are arguing about his completion percentage but a lot of these QBs with high completion percentages, they throw a lot of successful screens.

This is an over-simplified and, in my opinion, incorrect take.

The Bills DID try to run screens. They're TERRIBLE at them. Is the offensive coordinator to blame for that? Maybe, but also maybe not. The players still have to execute them, mind you, and they've been consistently unable to do so.

The assumption that Allen would just automatically be better in a different offense is just that -- an assumption.

If anything, Daboll has completely tailored the current Bills offense to the strengths of Josh Allen. He has given him great ownership over the scheme and has allowed him to tell Daboll what types of plays and formations he does and doesn't like, and Daboll then implements that feedback. So if you don't like this offense, Allen shoulders some of the blame, as well.

It's just as likely that if Allen weren't in such a QB-friendly offense and were forced to adhere to a more stubborn coach, he'd be WORSE, not better.

[Billsfan1972]

22 minutes ago, Logic said:

This is an over-simplified and, in my opinion, incorrect take.

The Bills DID try to run screens. They're TERRIBLE at them. Is the offensive coordinator to blame for that? Maybe, but also maybe not. The players still have to execute them, mind you, and they've been consistently unable to do so.

The assumption that Allen would just automatically be better in a different offense is just that -- an assumption.

If anything, Daboll has completely tailored the current Bills offense to the strengths of Josh Allen. He has given him great ownership over the scheme and has allowed him to tell Daboll what types of plays and formations he does and doesn't like, and Daboll then implements that feedback. So if you don't like this offense, Allen shoulders some of the blame, as well.

It's just as likely that if Allen weren't in such a QB-friendly offense and were forced to adhere to a more stubborn coach, he'd be WORSE, not better.

So if this brain trust is so smart according to you above post, then the Bills should be drafting a QB, becasue Allen has then been a failure as he has ranked at the bottom of the league in accuracy & yards/game two years running.

 

Of course I completely disagree & think the coaching has stunted Allen, lost the Bills games & they are way behind in seeing what they have in him.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Luka]

12 minutes ago, Logic said:

This is an over-simplified and, in my opinion, incorrect take.

The Bills DID try to run screens. They're TERRIBLE at them. Is the offensive coordinator to blame for that? Maybe, but also maybe not. The players still have to execute them, mind you, and they've been consistently unable to do so.

The assumption that Allen would just automatically be better in a different offense is just that -- an assumption.

If anything, Daboll has completely tailored the current Bills offense to the strengths of Josh Allen. He has given him great ownership over the scheme and has allowed him to tell Daboll what types of plays and formations he does and doesn't like, and Daboll then implements that feedback. So if you don't like this offense, Allen shoulders some of the blame, as well.

It's just as likely that if Allen weren't in such a QB-friendly offense and were forced to adhere to a more stubborn coach, he'd be WORSE, not better.

 

3rd in throw aways, first in drop percentage, 3rd in total drops, 31st in pocket time at 2.3 seconds, 5th in blitzes faced, 9th in completed air yards but 25th in yards after catch... there are a lot of stats that point to the OC and supporting cast faltering around him. 

 

Poorly designed plays usually have a poor outcome. The Bills fan base also just assumed that we got new players, so his supporting cast must be better. That hasn't really panned out either. John Brown and Beasley are better, sure. But the rest of the group is just as bad as last year. Or is it that the offensive coordinator is the same, so the results are the same? Do you shitcan the entire roster again? Or do you maybe go hey, this coordinator who has never been successful at the NFL level? Maybe he's the issue and we should make a change.

 

Hopefully it takes care of itself and someone stupidly hires him as a head coach or something.

[Luka]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

The offensive line has clearly been better.... however I'm not the biggest Daboll fan and had the conservative offensive philosophy as a whole.... I don't think it's a good thing to have one of the more complex offenses in the league. 

 

Correct, complex doesn't mean good. In fact, it usually means poor results. These are athletes, you don't want them thinking, you want them to play as fast as possible.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

However 27th in team passing, which is the proper measure.  He is too 29th in yards/gm (ahead of only Case Keenum, Jacoby Brissett & Mason Rudolph!!!!!!  Yep but more passing yards then Drew Brees, for which there is a simple explanation..  He has missed 1 quarter all year.  You really aren't that stupid are you?  Do you really want to go there?

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/index.htm

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/passingYardsPerGame/dir/desc

 

BTW Baltimore is 13-2 & Lamar truly could shut it down in many games as they were well ahead, while the Bills shut it down often of their own accord & then needed points in the fourth.

 

 

 

I cant say I watched a lot of Baltimore games but the ones I did watch, they didn't "shut it down."  Baltimore is an efficient passing offense with a great running game (including QB.)  They aren't a raw yardage explosion passing game like say KC is.

 

Do you really have to bring in the "Stupid" comment.  I have never insulted you.  While I don't take this as an insult, it's obvious that's where you want to go with it.  Buffalo is 10-5.  Josh is doing well considering all the aspects.

[Scott7975]

52 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The offensive line has clearly been better.... however I'm not the biggest Daboll fan and hate the conservative offensive philosophy as a whole.... I don't think it's a good thing to have one of the more complex offenses in the league. 

 

The oline is definitely better than last season.  However, this oline has still been a turnstile.  Better with Nsekhe,  Ford blows his block all the time.  The line is regularly pushed on top of Josh.  There have been free runners quite a bit.  TE's cant block for crap.  They aren't athletic enough to even run a screen play.