Josh Allen Stat ... wow

[Billy Claude]

Mark Sanchez and 5 QBs who turn it on in the 4th quarter

 

Article from 2011 on 4th quarter qbs; 1.  Sanchez. 2.  Tebow. 3.  Romo. 4.  Rodgers. 5.  Brady. 6.  E. Manning

The difference between the first two and the last four was that the latter were also good in the first three quarters.

 

Allen has a unique skill set and shown great progress but imho he is, at present, a slightly below average starting qb.  However he has shown he can learn I have optimism that he will get better.  However if he is where he is right now next year it will be severely disappointing.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Billy Claude

[Lenigmusx]

22 hours ago, london_bills said:

Yes a good thing. Fair enough! 

 

Only thing I will say is I don't think he's always consciously tried to overthrow receivers. I do think that can play in yeah but sometimes I think it's a combination of his arm strength and adrenaline at seeing an open receiver making him overthrow. He's a compelling player as he's an emotional person playing a position where being unemotional can arguably help you more. 

Would you say that Jim Kelly and John Elway were not emotional players? Dan Marino and Joe Montana were very even but I think fire can be a good thing if properly harnessed. 

[Lenigmusx]

7 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

4 - 300+ yard games

23 PASSING Tds

2700+ passing yards

62.1 completion percentage 

88.9 Qbr

 

In 11 starts... 

 

Better than Allen in practically every single statistical category and he's a Rookie on a horrible team. 

 

Id call that shredding it. 

 

Well of course forgetting the most important statistical category.... Wins and Losses?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Jones has put on multiple passing clinics this year.   He just threw for over 300 and 5tds in his 11th start. 

In all honesty that is the kind of performance you expect from a franchise guy taken in the top 10.

 

OK, so then the G-men should be happy.  They're getting what they wanted from their #6 pick.

 

Quote

If you really want to compare apples to apples compare their rookie seasons. 

 

Why?  Allen wasn't supposed to start.  He was said by all who was supposed to be a raw prospect who wasn't supposed to start, and was thrown into the fire.  He had no OL, no WR, and no run game.  Looks to me as though Jones has all of those things (see below)

 

Quote

I don't think people really understand what I mean about accuracy.   Its more than just his percentage.   Its ball placement, throwing receivers open and making anticipatory throws before recievers come out of their breaks.  There have been tons of completions that have been made by guys jumping in the dirt, through the air, etc.

 

You know, if you wanted to go through a game or put up some clips or whatever and make that argument, fine.  I don't watch Giants games.  You may be right.  Maybe "Danny Dimes" is just amazeballs and is leaving all other young QB in the dust left by his spirals.  On the other hand, maybe he isn't - like I said, I haven't seen his games.

 

But that wasn't the argument you were advancing here.  You were talking about 15 ypg and 3% completion percentage higher and metrics that I don't find value in personally (total QBR and # 300 yd games) and talking about how Daniel Jones is "shredding the league" on that basis.  That's not a particularly great argument for "shredding", and when someone points out undesireable stats where Jones is leading (fumbles) or respected stats where he isn't (ANY/A), your response is not to acknowledge, but to shift the field.

 

Now we aren't talking about stats, we're talking about gaudy games and the "eyeball test". 

 

Running my eyes down the stat sheet, it looks to me like they're running a different kind of passing game - I see a 1st round RB and a 1st round TE with a lot of targets and 92 YPG, 2 decent to good vet WR in Shepard and Tate so it seems as though he's got a pretty good set of weapons, and I see that Jones is pretty evenly split between air yards and YAC.  The Giants have been trying to improve their OL since Shurmer walked in the door.  Solder is pretty good; with 2 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick as well as a couple vets on it, maybe they've succeeded.

It looks to me as though Jones put on his "clinics" against 3 struggling teams, Washington (x2), Tampa, and the Jets. Against NE in week 6, he had 48% completions, 161 yds, and 3 INTs - Hmmmm.  Against GB, 54% completions and 3 INTs.  Against Chicago, no INTs so good on him but only 150 yds.  Hmmm.

 

I think I'm out of here now- I don't think you have a genuine interest in actual football convo.  I could be mistaken, I'll live with it.

 

5 hours ago, Pokebball said:

You think of Baker is a victim of the mess. Others would argue that he is part of the cause of the mess.

 

That tends to be my impression, but could just be me.

 

And I guess maybe you.  And...and ...and ...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, london_bills said:

Only thing I will say is I don't think he's always consciously tried to overthrow receivers. I do think that can play in yeah but sometimes I think it's a combination of his arm strength and adrenaline at seeing an open receiver making him overthrow. He's a compelling player as he's an emotional person playing a position where being unemotional can arguably help you more. 

 

I don't think Allen's long overthrows have too much to do with being an emotional player, myself.  I go with Kubiak and @Buffalo716 who say technique, technique, technique plus continuing to develop his ability to throw from a muddled pocket.  Hopefully he'll work on it in the off season.

 

I think he has some other misfires that might be the result of being a bit amped up, but they're not the bombs (from what I've seen).

[FeelingOnYouboty]

On 12/23/2019 at 10:53 PM, BfloBillsFan said:

I’ve liked his progress this season.  Hope he takes more steps and can become a top 10-12 QB

that’s what we should be aiming at. 

[BurpleBull]

If Daboll were to ever be let go, the one thing that I think he'd have to get props for, is being instrumental in getting Allen to cut back on his reckless habits, by grilling him after a boneheaded play.

[whorlnut]

17 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I said years ago that fans cant handle having a rookie QB.  If he doesn't look like Brady right away they think he is garbage.  News Flash... not many QBs come out looking like Mahomes in their first couple years.

Not to mention that some fans hold it against Allen because the Bills traded the pick that the Chiefs used on Mahomes. They also fail to realize that Mahomes at 10 was a HUGE reach at the time. 

[Kelly the Dog]

20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK, what do you call a checkdown route?   What precedes it, what characterizes it?  Making sure we're on the same page.

A checkdown route is just as the name implies. When you delay or more often block for the passer, and then release as his last resort, usually close to the QB or starting toward the flat. It is the last progression (although you do not need to go through all of them to get to the checkdown, depending on the rush(. You just dump it off under pressure. The Bills throw all different kinds of passes to Singletary, including him spread out and running regular patterns, swing passes, flat passes, screen passes, even a bubble screen once in awhile. But Josh rarely steps back, sees nothing open, and then just dumps the ball off to Singletary. It happens, just not very often at all. QBs especially do this on 3rd and longs. Josh rarely if ever does that. He almost always tries for the first down. Other QBs pad stats tremendously with checkdown passes. He doesn't. And didn't in college either.

[NoSaint]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK, so then the G-men should be happy.  They're getting what they wanted from their #6 pick.

 

 

Why?  Allen wasn't supposed to start.  He was said by all who was supposed to be a raw prospect who wasn't supposed to start, and was thrown into the fire.  He had no OL, no WR, and no run game.  Looks to me as though Jones has all of those things (see below)

 

 

You know, if you wanted to go through a game or put up some clips or whatever and make that argument, fine.  I don't watch Giants games.  You may be right.  Maybe "Danny Dimes" is just amazeballs and is leaving all other young QB in the dust left by his spirals.  On the other hand, maybe he isn't - like I said, I haven't seen his games.

 

But that wasn't the argument you were advancing here.  You were talking about 15 ypg and 3% completion percentage higher and metrics that I don't find value in personally (total QBR and # 300 yd games) and talking about how Daniel Jones is "shredding the league" on that basis.  That's not a particularly great argument for "shredding", and when someone points out undesireable stats where Jones is leading (fumbles) or respected stats where he isn't (ANY/A), your response is not to acknowledge, but to shift the field.

 

Now we aren't talking about stats, we're talking about gaudy games and the "eyeball test". 

 

Running my eyes down the stat sheet, it looks to me like they're running a different kind of passing game - I see a 1st round RB and a 1st round TE with a lot of targets and 92 YPG, 2 decent to good vet WR in Shepard and Tate so it seems as though he's got a pretty good set of weapons, and I see that Jones is pretty evenly split between air yards and YAC.  The Giants have been trying to improve their OL since Shurmer walked in the door.  Solder is pretty good; with 2 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick as well as a couple vets on it, maybe they've succeeded.

It looks to me as though Jones put on his "clinics" against 3 struggling teams, Washington (x2), Tampa, and the Jets. Against NE in week 6, he had 48% completions, 161 yds, and 3 INTs - Hmmmm.  Against GB, 54% completions and 3 INTs.  Against Chicago, no INTs so good on him but only 150 yds.  Hmmm.

 

I think I'm out of here now- I don't think you have a genuine interest in actual football convo.  I could be mistaken, I'll live with it.

 

 

That tends to be my impression, but could just be me.

 

And I guess maybe you.  And...and ...and ...

a top 10 pick is 100% expected to start. Essentially none in the last 20 years has sat the season.

[GoBills808]

26 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

A checkdown route is just as the name implies. When you delay or more often block for the passer, and then release as his last resort, usually close to the QB or starting toward the flat. It is the last progression (although you do not need to go through all of them to get to the checkdown, depending on the rush(. You just dump it off under pressure. The Bills throw all different kinds of passes to Singletary, including him spread out and running regular patterns, swing passes, flat passes, screen passes, even a bubble screen once in awhile. But Josh rarely steps back, sees nothing open, and then just dumps the ball off to Singletary. It happens, just not very often at all. QBs especially do this on 3rd and longs. Josh rarely if ever does that. He almost always tries for the first down. Other QBs pad stats tremendously with checkdown passes. He doesn't. And didn't in college either.

IE how the Vikings use Dalvin Cook in their passing offense

[syhuang]

10 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

a top 10 pick is 100% expected to start. Essentially none in the last 20 years has sat the season.

it has more to do with QB situation consider teams drafting a QB in top 10 usually have a big hole in QB position. When others says “not expected to start”, they refer to how raw a QB is. However, even some of these top 10 QBs are raw and aren’t starting immediately after draft per coach’s plan, they are often forced into play later in the first year due to non-optimal QB situation.

 

on the other hand, with better QB situation, Mahomes did pretty much sit out the first season. You can argue he actually started the meaningless last game of the season so technically he didn’t sit out, but we all know it’s to let him gain experience and see game action in a meaningless game. In the playoff game next week, Alex Smith started again.

[NoSaint]

30 minutes ago, syhuang said:

it has more to do with QB situation consider teams drafting a QB in top 10 usually have a big hole in QB position. When others says “not expected to start”, they refer to how raw a QB is. However, even some of these top 10 QBs are raw and aren’t starting immediately after draft per coach’s plan, they are often forced into play later in the first year due to non-optimal QB situation.

 

on the other hand, with better QB situation, Mahomes did pretty much sit out the first season. You can argue he actually started the meaningless last game of the season so technically he didn’t sit out, but we all know it’s to let him gain experience and see game action in a meaningless game. In the playoff game next week, Alex Smith started again.

mahomes is, fairly, an exception. But the point that you don’t draft a guy top 10 expecting him to sit in the modern Nfl is one I stand by.
 

And as much as everyone said that was Allen, he did not sit. Frankly going into the season with he, peterman and McCarron- And dealing AJ... I don’t think they tried all that hard to avoid it. 

 

It’s just not reality to get one that high and not see him play. There’s a little noise around the data, as with anything, but I’m comfortable saying it’s materially true. 

[syhuang]

20 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

mahomes is, fairly, an exception. But the point that you don’t draft a guy top 10 expecting him to sit in the modern Nfl is one I stand by.
 

And as much as everyone said that was Allen, he did not sit. Frankly going into the season with he, peterman and McCarron- And dealing AJ... I don’t think they tried all that hard to avoid it. 

 

It’s just not reality to get one that high and not see him play. There’s a little noise around the data, as with anything, but I’m comfortable saying it’s materially true. 

 

I guess we can agree to disagree. In my opinion it has more to do with the QB situation that even the top 10 rookie QBs are considered raw and the plan was to sit out the first season, they are mostly forced to play later in the first year. Mahomes’s case is an exception that although he was drafted in top 10, Chiefs had a much better QB situation then. He is not an exception due to he is the only QB considered raw and expected to sit out the rookie season.

Edited December 25, 2019 by syhuang

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

I guess we can agree to disagree. In my opinion it has more to do with the QB situation that even the top 10 rookie QBs are considered raw and the plan was to sit out the first season, they are mostly forced to play later in the first year. Mahomes’s case is an exception that although he was drafted in top 10, Chiefs had a much better QB situation then. He is not an exception due to he is the only QB considered raw and expected to sit out the rookie season.

If Allen was expected to sit out the entire season you must’ve been mighty upset about us not creating a better qb situation around him
 

Either beane was negligent, or he didn’t agree with you on the plan that he would be sitting. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

A checkdown route is just as the name implies. When you delay or more often block for the passer, and then release as his last resort, usually close to the QB or starting toward the flat. It is the last progression (although you do not need to go through all of them to get to the checkdown, depending on the rush(. You just dump it off under pressure. The Bills throw all different kinds of passes to Singletary, including him spread out and running regular patterns, swing passes, flat passes, screen passes, even a bubble screen once in awhile. But Josh rarely steps back, sees nothing open, and then just dumps the ball off to Singletary. It happens, just not very often at all. QBs especially do this on 3rd and longs. Josh rarely if ever does that. He almost always tries for the first down. Other QBs pad stats tremendously with checkdown passes. He doesn't. And didn't in college either.

 

OK.  Making sure we're on the same page here.  Then I see checkdown routes quite frequently.  It's usually Singletary, occasionally DiMarco or Kroft.  Don't see Smith or Gore used that way often, though there was 1.  It's correct that Josh doesn't *take* them very often, but he does sometimes.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

a top 10 pick is 100% expected to start. Essentially none in the last 20 years has sat the season.

 

Well just off the top of my head … Mahomes, Goff, Eli

Edited December 25, 2019 by Scott7975

[syhuang]

33 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

If Allen was expected to sit out the entire season you must’ve been mighty upset about us not creating a better qb situation around him
 

Either beane was negligent, or he didn’t agree with you on the plan that he would be sitting. 

 

Or it’s possible he considered the better QBs in FA market are overpriced and the term is too long, but that’s the not point whether what Beane did in that offseason can be used to prove who is right.

 

I think I may know the root culprit of this discussion. Basically when others said a rookie QB isn’t expected to start the first season, they mean the QB is raw. Most of the time these QBs are forced to action due to non optimal QB situation. On the other hand, when you see others said a rookie is not expected to start, your take is that the QB situation often doesn’t allow the rookie to sit out the first year or as long as the coach prefer even he is raw.

 

if this indeed your interpretation, your take is inline with others. On the other hand, if you are arguing whether a top 10 rookie is as raw as others, there is really no way to prove who is right consider the QB situation of a team also plays a major role on whether a rookie is playing.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by syhuang

[Scott7975]

34 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

If Allen was expected to sit out the entire season you must’ve been mighty upset about us not creating a better qb situation around him
 

Either beane was negligent, or he didn’t agree with you on the plan that he would be sitting. 

 

I don't know that they planned for him to sit the whole season or not.  What I do know is they had a plan to start him until they felt he was ready.  Here is something McD said before week 1 last year...

 

Quote

"Josh Allen is on schedule," McDermott said, per the team's official site. "I've been pleased with his development, and I know he'll be ready if his number is called."

 

They had a plan.  That plan didn't include rushing him on the field just because they drafted him.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Scott7975

[NoSaint]

15 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

Or it’s possible he considered the better QBs in FA market are overpriced and the term is too long, but that’s the not point whether Beane agreed with me or not.

 

I think I may know the root culprit of this discussion. Basically when others said a rookie QB isn’t expected to start the first season, they mean the QB is raw. Most of the time these QBs are forced to action due to non optimal QB situation. On the other hand, when you see others said a rookie is not expected to start, your take is that the QB situation often doesn’t allow the rookie to sit out the first year or as long as the coach prefer even he is raw.

 

if this indeed your interpretation, your take is inline with others. On the other hand, if you are arguing whether a top 10 rookie is as raw as others, there is really no way to prove who is right consider the QB situation of a team also plays a major role on whether a rookie is playing.

 

 

one might argue if a guy is THAT raw there are questions about him going that high. 

9 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't know that they planned for him to sit the whole season or not.  What I do know is they had a plan to start him when they felt he was ready.  Here is something McD said before week 1 last year...

 

 

They had a plan.  That plan didn't include rushing him on the field just because they drafted him.

you can quote any interview you want. 
 

they went into the season with peterman and Allen. Either they were criminally negligent or they didn’t expect him to sit the whole season from pretty early in the process. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

one might argue if a guy is THAT raw there are questions about him going that high. 

 

When a QB is a need, usually you have to draft them higher than you want to.  Maybe they should have taken Rosen because he was the most pro ready?  I for one am glad they did not.

[syhuang]

Just now, NoSaint said:

one might argue if a guy is THAT raw there are questions about him going that high. 

If you are indeed arguing how raw a top 10 rookie is, like I said earlier, there is no way to prove who is right considered QB situation of the team also plays a major role on whether a rookie QB plays in the first season or how much he plays. In this case, let’s just agree to disagree.

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

one might argue if a guy is THAT raw there are questions about him going that high. 

you can quote any interview you want. 
 

they went into the season with peterman and Allen. Either they were criminally negligent or they didn’t expect him to sit the whole season from pretty early in the process. 

 

or  they didn't expect they would be winning a Superbowl last year and they felt Peterman would be a placeholder.  They obviously expected Allen to sit, again not necessarily the entire year, so call it what you want.

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

or  they didn't expect they would be winning a Superbowl last year and they felt Peterman would be a placeholder.  They obviously expected Allen to sit, again not necessarily the entire year, so call it what you want.

they Had seen peterman play and your cool with the take that because they weren’t winning the super bowl, whatever, he’s got the job for the season?

[NoSaint]

9 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

When a QB is a need, usually you have to draft them higher than you want to.  Maybe they should have taken Rosen because he was the most pro ready?  I for one am glad they did not.

this could be a radical take but what if they thought he was closer to ready than a lot of this board gave credit and we don’t have to evaluate him with kid gloves 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

this could be a radical take but what if they thought he was closer to ready than a lot of this board gave credit and we don’t have to evaluate him with kid gloves 

 

It could be a radical take, but then one does have to explain why was Josh taking the #3 reps in his first training camp, behind a guy we cut and a guy who didn't last more than half a game?

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It could be a radical take, but then one does have to explain why was Josh taking the #3 reps in his first training camp, behind a guy we cut and a guy who didn't last more than half a game?

No to mention no veteran help, made worse when we cut the lone pseudo veteran, a WR coach as a QB coach, and a woefully unprepared WR corp. It was criminal malpractice. 

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

No to mention no veteran help, made worse when we cut the lone pseudo veteran, a WR coach as a QB coach, and a woefully unprepared WR corp. It was criminal malpractice. 

That WR as a QB coach is also the offensive assistant in Baltimore , also passing game coordinator and he does work with Lamar also. He is also WR coach that's alot on a coaches plate

 

He was a good QB coach and might be a HC soon

Edited December 25, 2019 by Buffalo716

[Kelly the Dog]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That WR as a QB coach is also the offensive assistant in Baltimore , also passing game coordinator and he does work with Lamar also. He is also WR coach that's alot on a coaches plate

 

He was a good QB coach and might be a HC soon

He's a good coach. Just not a QB coach. Josh didn't discuss him like he does Dorsey. 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

they Had seen peterman play and your cool with the take that because they weren’t winning the super bowl, whatever, he’s got the job for the season?

 

Last year was about team building and developing a QB.  This year is actually more of the same but they are way better than last year.  Am I cool with it?  I don't think it really matters.  Although I think they should have had a solid journeyman on the team like Fitz or someone instead of a QB who was essentially another rookie.  They did later on get Barkley who fits that role.

[Billy Claude]

Returning to the OP, I find it curious that when Allen was putting up meh numbers against historically bad defenses, the narrative was the opponents don`t matter, it's just wins and losses.  Now it`s yeh, he's putting up meh numbers but look at the great defenses he`s playing.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Billy Claude

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He's a good coach. Just not a QB coach. Josh didn't discuss him like he does Dorsey. 

Josh only said good things about him.

 

The ONLY gripe people had with Culley was the day we hired him everybody looked at his credential's and saw he was a WR coach for the majority of his career... It's like looking at Allen's stats from college and saying he sucks or is inaccurate

 

David Culley was a D1 QB and knows alot about the game and position. I know players who played under him and rave about him as a coach. Not a WR coach a football coach who can coach lots of things to a high degree

 

The Culley sucks line was always a uneducated one

 

I love Allen as a player and I think Dorsey is a good coach but his lower body mechanics have been completely out of whack with Dorsey and not consistent

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by Buffalo716

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

this could be a radical take but what if they thought he was closer to ready than a lot of this board gave credit and we don’t have to evaluate him with kid gloves 

 

What difference does it make?  Maybe they did.  Maybe they didn't.  They proceeded how they proceeded.  Allen is coming along just fine IMO.  The team is 10-5  with a throwaway game against the Jets and a playoff game to follow.  Considering the team building is not done, we have a lot of resources to continue it next season, Allen has improved from last year and over the course of the season... I think the Bills are doing just fine.  I don't like Daboll and I don't like McD's we have a 4 point lead... lets shut it down approach, but it is what it is.  I hope that the approach there is just part of how they feel they want to develop Allen.  As he gets better, I hope they open it up more.

 

I think next season is a good year to analyze.  They should have more pieces, more experienced players in the starters that remain,  Allen should progress even further.  After this season, most would expect better next year.  This year, IMO, has exceeded expectations.  Can you honestly say at the beginning of the season you expected the Bills to be where they are at right now?  I doubt it and I wouldn't believe you if you told me you did.

[NoSaint]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It could be a radical take, but then one does have to explain why was Josh taking the #3 reps in his first training camp, behind a guy we cut and a guy who didn't last more than half a game?

I have always thought the offensive questions are fair but the answers around here go in circles a bit. Can’t judge josh, beane or McDermott over the offense for some reason.

 

ultimately, if Josh is Russ Wilson in Newton’s body all 3 are in the hall of fame.
 

But the discussions are a bit grating in that we can’t question anyone because he’s too raw but can’t judge them for the position they put that raw rookie in.

[Kelly the Dog]

30 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Josh only said good things about him.

 

The ONLY gripe people had with Culley was the day we hired him everybody looked at his credential's and saw he was a WR coach for the majority of his career... It's like looking at Allen's stats from college and saying he sucks or is inaccurate

 

David Culley was a D1 QB and knows alot about the game and position. I know players who played under him and rave about him as a coach. Not a WR coach a football coach who can coach lots of things to a high degree

 

The Culley sucks line was always a uneducated one

 

I love Allen as a player and I think Dorsey is a good coach but his lower body mechanics have been completely out of whack with Dorsey and not consistent

 

You and I have gone through this ad nauseum. It's one of few things we disagree on fundamentally and I think you're one of the very best posters on here. So we'll agree to disagree.

 

One thing I did want to note though, is that I think of Culley as one of 4-6 major mistakes that McD and somewhat Beane made with Josh and the QB position last year including Peterman, no veteran, no WR, terrible OL and OL coaching, and no one who had really developed a QB before; the Culley part was probably the least important, not at the top of importance as far as mistakes went.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Go Bills!

[Slack_in_MA]

10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You and I have gone through this ad nauseum. It's one of few things we disagree on fundamentally and I think you're one of the very best posters on here. So we'll agree to disagree.

 

One thing I did want to note though, is that I think of Culley as one of 4-6 major mistakes that McD and somewhat Beane made with Josh and the QB position last year including Peterman, no veteran, no WR, terrible OL and OL coaching, and no one who had really developed a QB before; the Culley part was probably the least important, not at the top of importance as far as mistakes went.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Go Bills!

How much of that do you think was attributed to their salary cap/dead $ situation last year? Honest question.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

37 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I have always thought the offensive questions are fair but the answers around here go in circles a bit. Can’t judge josh, beane or McDermott over the offense for some reason.

 

ultimately, if Josh is Russ Wilson in Newton’s body all 3 are in the hall of fame.
 

But the discussions are a bit grating in that we can’t question anyone because he’s too raw but can’t judge them for the position they put that raw rookie in.

 

I kind of don't get this, Saint.  At least, I read criticism of Josh Allen, of Beane's handling of the offense, and of McDermott  and Daboll - and how!  on this board all the time.

 

Ultimately, if Josh succeeds he will be his own unique guy I think.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

50 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Josh only said good things about him.

 

The ONLY gripe people had with Culley was the day we hired him everybody looked at his credential's and saw he was a WR coach for the majority of his career... It's like looking at Allen's stats from college and saying he sucks or is inaccurate

 

David Culley was a D1 QB and knows alot about the game and position. I know players who played under him and rave about him as a coach. Not a WR coach a football coach who can coach lots of things to a high degree

 

The Culley sucks line was always a uneducated one

 

I love Allen as a player and I think Dorsey is a good coach but his lower body mechanics have been completely out of whack with Dorsey and not consistent

 

I dunno about Culley as a QB coach.  What I do know is early on in the season (I can't find it now) Allen was talking about the differences between last season and this season and he said that Daboll didn't "have to" (his words) sit in on all the QB room meetings this year or watch the drills as much.  He said that Daboll and Dorsey were very in sync.  He didn't say anything bad about Culley, not at all, but the implication was that for whatever reason, Daboll felt the need to mix it in with the QB room and drills more last year.

 

It could be something as simple as perhaps Culley wasn't fully up to speed on the system Daboll wanted to run so Daboll had to be there to answer questions.

 

What I see, caveat of course that you have better eyes for this than I do, is that when Allen has plenty of time, his mechanics look OK.  It shows in his greatly improved short to intermediate throws.  But last year, I don't feel that Allen would stay in the pocket and make throws under pressure.  He would bail and run.  This year he is trying to stand in and make plays with his arm more, and especially under pressure and perhaps because the intermediate throws were much more of a focus and changed something he does when he throws long, he's off.

 

10 minutes ago, Slack_in_MA said:

How much of that do you think was attributed to their salary cap/dead $ situation last year? Honest question.

 

None, really.   They asked Daboll as OC to retain pretty much all Dennison's staff.  It was strange, usually an OC will bring in guys who know his system and have worked with him.

 

As far as dead cap,  I've gone through the math before, and for the money they did spend on some offensive FA including Bodine and Corey Coleman, plus a bit of the extra cap they had, they could have brought in Pouncey and probably worked a trade for a decent vet WR.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You and I have gone through this ad nauseum. It's one of few things we disagree on fundamentally and I think you're one of the very best posters on here. So we'll agree to disagree.

 

One thing I did want to note though, is that I think of Culley as one of 4-6 major mistakes that McD and somewhat Beane made with Josh and the QB position last year including Peterman, no veteran, no WR, terrible OL and OL coaching, and no one who had really developed a QB before; the Culley part was probably the least important, not at the top of importance as far as mistakes went.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Go Bills!

Merry Christmas

 

Can't wait for your column this week

[Fr. Jerk]

I gave the meh face, just because somebody had to, ya dig?