Bills at Browns Post Game Post Mortem

[clayboy54]

Just now, Livinginthepast said:

Mayfield and Allen were close in stats but Mayfield made the throws that mattered on the Browns last drive and Allen couldn't do the same.

Allen moved the team down the field to a position where we could at least tie. What else do you have to disprove that?

[CEN-CAL17]

24 minutes ago, Agent 91 said:

Is Dorsey qualified? What's his body of work

He played QB at the NFL for a half dozen years, won a National Championship at Miami, has been a coach in the NFL for about 8 years now.... from a players perspective I’m sure he understands down and distance and can use his weapons to the best of their ability....

[WideNine]

32 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

run defense gave up a 150 so long way to go 

 

Truth.

 

The consistency is not there, but note that the Browns went to the air vs Wallace rather than face our run D on their game-winning drive.

 

Our defense has a bad habit of getting gashed in the first half of games and finally tightening things up in the 2nd.

 

Those adjustments need to happen faster.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by WideNine

[Seven-N-Nine]

6 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Josh Allen:

22/41 266 0 0   and two rush TD.   Baker Mayfield:     26/38 238 2 0   On a different level, huh?

Mayfield is actually capable of throwing TD passes...

[Livinginthepast]

3 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Um, not to be pedantic or anything but Josh made the throws that matter not 4 minutes prior to that to give his team the lead. So, this analysis is really kind of lacking.

 

Who cares? Josh didn't make plays on the winning drive to get them closer than the 36!! 3 incompletions on the last drive and the 3rd down was killer. You want to win a game that's huge for your team? then do it, no excuses. Just not good enough. 

[The Wiz]

2 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

Mayfield is actually capable of throwing TD passes...

Short memory I see. 

[transplantbillsfan]

30 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I think I have run my course with Debol.....he doesnt adjust to what Allen is doing well TODAY......which is his short and intermediate game

 

Yes. Absolutely. Daboll is infuriating.

 

When the Bills NEED to move down the field, Allen has been able to do it. End of the half down by 2 he got the team into very easy FG range.

 

Hauschka missed.

 

End of the game with less than 2 minutes at their own 25 and 1 timeout Allen moves the team into FG range for the tie. But it's long FG range and stupid coaching takes over. First with the huddling up to waste time. Then icing our own kicker.

 

Coaching is this team's problem. Ironically it's also the reason according to the national media we have the record we do.

 

Personally, I think out coaches just might be great in terms of preparation and terrible on Sundays. Daboll for sure and starting to feel that way about McDermott as well.

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

My observations of a perfectly putrid giveaway of a game we needed. 

1. We need a kicker
2. Stop running deep routes, Josh can't hit the lake from the dock over 15 yards
3. We need a DT to plug the middle and a DE who can actually set the edge
4. Move Tremaine and get a downhill MLB that hits the right gaps
5. Tacking practice time again
6. Lee Smith is a penalty machine
7. Josh Allen is a fumbling machine
8. When you play the 30th ranked run D, run the damn ball
9. When it's 3rd and 3, get the damn 3 yards and not try for a 30 yard bomb
10. Time to look at the OC 
11. Talent trumps culture
12. Get a play maker on offense

 

 

#2.  I completely disagree.  Josh Allen (if he is ever going to be a weapon) has to win using his big arm.

There needs to come a time when Daboll and McDermott own this and game plan that he is going to beat a team with the long ball.

Rotating Brown and Foster deep needs to happen and Josh needs to be "forced" to start connecting.

Josh has to make a play for the "hot girl" and stop trying to kiss his cousin.

 

#6.  I said it a week ago Lee Smith needs to be made an example of and be "inactive" for a game due to penalties.

 

The rest of your points is just playing better as an NFL football team.

FWIW

 

 

[That's No Moon]

18 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

I'm confused by this response. Are you for or against the plan being discussed?

 

I guess I'll respond by saying this.  If you gave Dick Jauron this team, do you think he could make the playoffs?

[timekills17]

2 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

Mayfield is actually capable of throwing TD passes...

 

Whatever.

We get it. You don't like Allen.

There is NOTHING you can point to this year that shows Mayfield is better than Allen.

Whether Allen is or becomes good is tiresome enough from you, but to seriously try and explain why passing for TDs in this game is somehow worth more than running for them is ridiculous. And to say Mayfield can pass for TDs while Allen can't - have you looked at their season's stats?

 

At least use realistic and worthwhile arguments, please.

[WideNine]

8 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Josh Allen:

22/41 266 0 0   and two rush TD.   Baker Mayfield:     26/38 238 2 0   On a different level, huh?

 

Mayfield has some receiving weapons too.

 

I do think Mayfield is more willing to throw 50/50 balls and Allen is being coached to protect the ball.

 

Allen does have to improve throwing guys open, and what I mean by that is that he should not be hitting Smoke in the ass on a drag route.

 

Unlike some, I have seen improvement, but the consistency needs to get better.

 

 

 

 

 

[Livinginthepast]

12 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

Allen moved the team down the field to a position where we could at least tie. What else do you have to disprove that?

Perhaps the fact that he didn't move them into position where the FG was a gimme even though he had opportunities to do it. Yes your FG kicker should have tied it. But you want to make a statement about your quality? Then don't leave it up to the kicker, win the damn game with your arm. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Livinginthepast

[That's No Moon]

Just now, Jaraxxus said:

What does that have to do with anything? Or is this a clever, stealthy means of saying you think McDermott is Jauron?

 

 

I think Dick Jauron would definitely make the playoffs.  I'm pretty sure McDermott won't.  Take that how you will.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

4 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Who cares? Josh didn't make plays on the winning drive to get them closer than the 36!! 3 incompletions on the last drive and the 3rd down was killer. You want to win a game that's huge for your team? then do it, no excuses. Just not good enough. 

I guess the same could be said for the defense on the last drive - You want to win a game that's huge for your team? then do it, no excuses. Just not good enough. 

[Georgia Bill]

1 hour ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 When do the excuses stop? Josh Allen has a problem with his long ball. Daboll literally gets WR open deep and Josh can’t hit them. Yes it’s a low percentage play but he hasn’t hit 1 this season.

It's obvious he's had a problem with the long balls.  Most often he overthrows, seem like he feels he has to really heave it - but his arm is so strong he overthrows.  Frankly, I don't know if that ever gets better BUT, given that's the case, and he's hitting pretty good on shorter to intermediate - WHY did we keep calling those drive ending long balls?  It frustrated the hell out of me.  Any one of those that didn't kill the drive might have ended up in a score.  The OC needs to understand his QB's strengths.  Despite the cannon arm, the long ball is not one of Allen's.   Dabolls refusal to acknowledge that hurt us.

[Seven-N-Nine]

11 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Allen made good passes?   He was terrible 90% of the game. 

 

The denial on this board is amazing. 

 

Daniel Jones, rookie, 65% completion, 308 yards, 4tds,  0 ints. 

 

Josh Allen is the main reason we lost today.  

Some Bills fans just never "get it" in the moment, it's only years later can they recognize a player or coach just wasn't good. Allen has a lot of weaknesses, and his career will likely be much shorter than Mayfield's.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Seven-N-Nine

[BuffaloBaumer]

Steelers and Raiders will get wild card spots, book it. Bills lost that spot today.

[BuffaloBaumer]

Just now, Jaraxxus said:

 

I'm astounded by your predictive ability. Got any hot stock tips?

 

It's pretty easy actually....you need an accurate qb to win in the nfl

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

Those shots were there. 

 

I've seen you and a few others mentioning multiple deep shots Allen missed today. I only remember the one to McKenzie. What am I forgetting? The deep pass to Beasley was dead on arrival, he was blanketed by two defenders. I don't remember any other deep shots.

Edited November 10, 2019 by HappyDays

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Georgia Bill said:

It's obvious he's had a problem with the long balls.  Most often he overthrows, seem like he feels he has to really heave it - but his arm is so strong he overthrows.  Frankly, I don't know if that ever gets better BUT, given that's the case, and he's hitting pretty good on shorter to intermediate - WHY did we keep calling those drive ending long balls?  It frustrated the hell out of me.  Any one of those that didn't kill the drive might have ended up in a score.  The OC needs to understand his QB's strengths.  Despite the cannon arm, the long ball is not one of Allen's.   Dabolls refusal to acknowledge that hurt us.

 

I will repeat myself.  It's time to let it fly.

 

#2.  I completely disagree.  Josh Allen (if he is ever going to be a weapon) has to win using his big arm.

There needs to come a time when Daboll and McDermott own this and game plan that he is going to beat a team with the long ball.

Rotating Brown and Foster deep needs to happen and Josh needs to be "forced" to start connecting.

Josh has to make a play for the "hot girl" and stop trying to kiss his cousin.

[Seven-N-Nine]

Just now, BuffaloBaumer said:

Steelers and Raiders will get wild card spots, book it. Bills lost that spot today.

Yep, the Bills schedule getting harder coupled with the obvious flaws out there on tape for opposing coaches to take advantage of will move the Bills to the "in the hunt" column rather quickly.

[london_bills]

4 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

I guess the same could be said for the defense on the last drive - You want to win a game that's huge for your team? then do it, no excuses. Just not good enough. 

Qb is one man and thus more important to understand if you have that position right or not, ideally as quick as possible. 

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

I don't think anyone's arguing Josh is a finished product. But he has more total TD and fewer turnovers than Mayfield on the season and a higher completion percentage to boot.

 

 

Some are looking for finished product, and he is not there. 

 

I think Allen needs some more play makers out there too. I felt he pulled up on throws to Knox that needed to get there faster, because Knox has struggled catching the fast balls.

 

This allowed the defender to close in, but some folks only see bad pass.

 

There is a lot going on out there.

 

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BillnutinHouston said:

You think right tackle was the problem?  Interesting. Myles Garrett was beating Dawkins, our LT, regularly.

 

Dawkins has actually played quite well the past few weeks. Garrett is going to beat you sometimes, I don't care who you are.

[BuffaloBaumer]

1 minute ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Yeah? You'll have to excuse me, but I think your analysis is kinda light, factually speaking.

 

It's fact, fact i say

[BeastMaster]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I've seen you and a few others mentioning multiple deep shots Allen missed today. I only remember the one to McKenzie. What am I forgetting? The deep pass to Beasley was dead on arrival, he was blanketed by two defenders. I don't remember any other deep shots.

He drew a PI early on with a deep ball.

 

The ridiculousness of posters throwing a hussy fit over the deep ba today are ignoring a litany of other issues much higher up in concern and what cost us the game.

 

[Georgia Bill]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I will repeat myself.  It's time to let it fly.

 

#2.  I completely disagree.  Josh Allen (if he is ever going to be a weapon) has to win using his big arm.

There needs to come a time when Daboll and McDermott own this and game plan that he is going to beat a team with the long ball.

Rotating Brown and Foster deep needs to happen and Josh needs to be "forced" to start connecting.

Josh has to make a play for the "hot girl" and stop trying to kiss his cousin.

I can appreciate that perspective, because I think his arm strength was largely what got him here.  BUT - he's been wildly inaccurate there so far.  So I think it is best to not have him heave it more than once per game - for now, at least until/unless we are eliminated from the playoffs.  Thereafter - bombs away.  But for now you just can't give up 3 drives in a game hoping he'll start getting it right.  There is too much on the line right now.

[Locomark]

1 hour ago, iinii said:

Which is why I believe the regime overreached and compounded things by not having him sit and watch like Rodgers, Mahomes. Learning to swim in the NFL is probably akin to swimming over the falls.

QBs don’t sit anymore. They are asked to learn on the fly. Rodgers or Garofalo are ridiculous examples because they were drafted behind hall of famers. As far as Mahomes, I would guarantee Allen would lol better on they KC system with those weapons than in ground and pound. Playmakers make guys looks good. I watched Maher’s throw some total double coverage bombs up only to have his superior athletes come down with it. We don’t have those athletes yet. Maybe Brown as a WR2 and maybe Knox has that potential in 2-3 years. 

[BillsFan4]

Today’s game, along with the last few, have made me realize that the Bills 6-2 record could just as easily be the Browns 2-6 record with a little less luck & a few bounces the other way. 

 

Both of these teams (Bills and Browns) seem to be in a similar spot to me -

teams that have been crappy for a long time that are trying to climb out of that hole and back to respectability. Both teams still have a ways to go before they’re legit contenders. 

 

The Bills are still rebuilding. We have tons of cap space this year (contending teams usually don’t leave $25M in unspent cap) and next. A good amount of draft picks. 

No additions at the deadline also speaks to where management thinks this team is at.

There are still numerous holes on both sides of the ball. 

 

This year is mostly about developing young players IMO. These last few weeks have continued to adjust my expectations for this season. I’m really trying to temper my expectations a bit and focus on the young players development. 

[FreeMaxB585]

1 hour ago, Sundancer said:

Just a little reality check on what the Browns are. Their losses are to:

 

Rams

Pats

Seahawks

Niners

 

and they beat the Ravens.

 

My biggest comlpaint wasn't with Allen's 266 passing...it was the last several plays and the 3 yard throws not playing for the W. Jauron-like offensive feel to that.

 

and our wins are vs all crap

 

we get 19 points a game despite our crap schedule with playing very few legit teams. allen just cant throw

Just now, BillsFan4 said:

Today’s game, along with the last few, have made me realize that the Bills 6-2 record could just as easily be the Browns 2-6 record with a little less luck & a few bounces the other way. 

 

Both of these teams (Bills and Browns) seem to be in a similar spot to me -

teams that have been crappy for a long time that are trying to climb out of that hole and back to respectability. Both teams still have a ways to go before they’re legit contenders. 

 

The Bills are still rebuilding. We have tons of cap space this year (contending teams usually don’t leave $25M in unspent cap) and next. A good amount of draft picks. 

No additions at the deadline also speaks to where management thinks this team is at.

There are still numerous holes on both sides of the ball. 

 

This year is mostly about developing young players IMO. These last few weeks have continued to adjust my expectations for this season. I’m really trying to temper my expectations a bit and focus on the young players development. 

 

fully agree. we have wins vs dolphins, jets, giants, titans with mariota, bengals, redskins. if we had that raiders schedule we prob have 1 or 2 wins.

 

defense is amazing for the most part. offense blows

[Locomark]

Why are people still clamoring for Foster as our deep threat? Every time he has run downfield this year he is covered. The ones who have been open are with Brown or McKenzie. Get those 2 guys deep once or twice and maybe there will be more confidence in those plays going forward. For now our offense just looks like it is still week 3...something is missing and it’s not just the QB accuracy!

[TwistofFate]

8 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Yeah? You'll have to excuse me, but I think your analysis is kinda light, factually speaking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FreeMaxB585]

11 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

Yep, the Bills schedule getting harder coupled with the obvious flaws out there on tape for opposing coaches to take advantage of will move the Bills to the "in the hunt" column rather quickly.

 

nah we got lucky enough to still have broncos  jets dolphins etc, if we had the raiders schedule wed for sure have a losing record right now. because of our schedule we should still be fine

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

I'll be calling for McDermott's head from here on out. I didn't trust him with game management since his first season, but that final drive was disgusting an inexcusable. 

[NickelCity]

Goddamn bills.

[That's No Moon]

7 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Have you been drinking today, sir?

 

Unfortunately no.  I've just never been on the McDermott train and he's done nothing to change my mind.  He took a good defense in Philly and wrecked it, he had a mediocre, soft, defense in Carolina and he's had a mediocre, soft, team here.  I see so many people talking about culture and character and blah, blah, blah.  Today was a game they needed to win and all their culture didn't do squat.  Their soft defense got smacked around all afternoon long, again, and they still managed to hand them a lead with 4 minutes left.  They needed to make them punt once. Nope.  Barely even slowed them down and they didn't luck out in the red zone the last time.  Needed a touchdown to win the game and they let clock run to obviously play for the tying 53 yard FG.  Best case scenario, they make that kick and then what? Go into overtime with a defense that has let the Browns march up and down the field?  Soft is a culture too and this team is soft. Soft and timid.

 

So fine, keep McDermott and see more of this, because this is what he is.  Or fire him and hire someone else and possibly see something different.  maybe better, maybe worse, maybe the same but at least there is an opportunity to be successful.  At this point?  Whatever.

 

And someone I'm sue will respond by saying they are 6-3!  how do you consider firing a 6-3 coach?!?  This is the worst 6-3 football team in the history of the league and they are in the process of being exposed in a big, big, way and to call what is coming anything more than an epic collapse is fooling yourself.  Who will the fall guy(s) be so we can keep the faith with McDermott?  

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Chemical said:

I'll be calling for McDermott's head from here on out. I didn't trust him with game management since his first season, but that final drive was disgusting an inexcusable. 

LOL

[Seven-N-Nine]

2 minutes ago, FreeMaxB585 said:

 

nah we got lucky enough to still have broncos  jets dolphins etc, if we had the raiders schedule wed for sure have a losing record right now. because of our schedule we should still be fine

I think with the way the team has been playing as of late, those three teams are no longer easy opponents or high probability wins.

[That's No Moon]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

LOL

What? It was.  

[BananaB]

6 minutes ago, FreeMaxB585 said:

 

and our wins are vs all crap

 

we get 19 points a game despite our crap schedule with playing very few legit teams. allen just cant throw

 

fully agree. we have wins vs dolphins, jets, giants, titans with mariota, bengals, redskins. if we had that raiders schedule we prob have 1 or 2 wins.

 

defense is amazing for the most part. offense blows

Defense has been together for 2.5 years, offense has been together 9 games.  
 

Missed FGs cost us today. We should of won that game.