Skurski: Star Lotulelei's Fine With Bearing Brunt of Criticism For Bills Struggles Against Run

[Thurman#1]

Good article with lots of quotes. Point is that while fans scapegoat, the Bills think he's doing the job, and Lotulelei doesn't care what anyone outside the locker room thinks.

 

https://buffalonews.com/2019/11/08/buffalo-bills-star-lotulelei-nfl-skurski/

 

I was surprised this hadn't been posted. I searched for Lotulelei and checked the first few pages. Anyway, it's a long article and a good one. It's around three or four times the size of my excerpts.

 

Excerpts:

 

“ 'Overall, Star has been our most consistent player throughout training camp, preseason and through the season,' defensive line coach Bill Teerlinck said Thursday. 'Versus the run, his footwork, pad level, key recognition, block recognition, step and punch, it’s all as good as anybody we've had, day in and day out.'

"After the Eagles ran for 218 yards in a Week 8 win over the Bills, coach Sean McDermott defended Lotulelei’s play, repeating a line he’s used frequently before when talking about what’s asked of the “one-technique” defensive tackle in his scheme.

“ 'It’s the most unselfish position on the defense,' McDermott said. 'Your name doesn’t get in the paper a lot and sometimes that’s a good thing as it relates to staying in your gap and doing your job. … Those defensive tackles don’t get a lot of recognition for the dirty work.'

"At least, not from the outside world.

“ 'He does so much stuff for this defense that people have no idea about,' fellow defensive tackle Jordan Phillips said. 'I know he's never going to say anything about (outside criticism). That's just the way he is. He doesn't care. He goes out there and he does his job at a very high level. A lot of people can't do the stuff that he does, including me. I try to go in there and do what he does, and it doesn't always go right. But that man does it every play. He eats up blocks and lets us go out there and do our thing. There's a reason why he's paid what he's paid, because he does it right. He's the centerpiece of our defense.' ”

 

... and ...

 

" 'Speaking for myself, I tried to do too much,” [Lotulelei] said. 'There were two big runs that were on me, where I tried to do too much. I'll peak into a different gap when that's not my gap. We're supposed to be a gap-sound defense and everybody is supposed to do their job. It's just a matter of everybody trusting each other and then being disciplined. They were both huge runs, and I take full responsibility for those. It's just a matter of trusting the guy next to you and being disciplined.' ”

 

... and ...

 

“ 'For myself, I feel like I've been playing fine according to what's been asked of me to do,' [Star] said. 'Especially as a defensive line group, we've been playing fine. …  At the end of the day we're 6-2. I don't think it's something to lose sleep over.' ”

 

That last bit is the key, IMO, "... according to what's been asked of me to do."

Fans here want him to do things he's not asked to do. And then call him a failure when he instead does what McDermott asked him to do. As noted above, he admitted culpability on two plays last week. Doesn't say he's perfect, at all. But there's been - as always - an urge to identify a scapegoat and to grab for the torches and pitchforks, and Lotulelei is this month's whipping boy on the boards.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Boca BIlls]

I would be fine too if I got paid a ***** ton of money.

[Dopey]

Star says: "'Especially as a defensive line group, we've been playing fine. … '

He's right, even Oliver has been fine most of the times. The 2 new guys brought in has more to do with Phillip's injury and Peko not being good enough out there. He didn't flat out say it, but the lbs and safeties have to do their job too. And leave his contract out of it. Especially when a teammate flat out says 'there's a reason why he's paid what he's paid'. And that contract is NOT keeping us from signing anyone we want to sign.

Thanks Thurman#1 for posting. I think. We'll see if the mob with torches and pitchforks backs off. Doubt it. 

[GunnerBill]

I still don't think he is a finisher. He generally is in the right place but I see too many plays where he doesn't maintain maximum effort to the whistle. He hasn't been the main issue though with the run game. It is about linebacker gap discipline and what @Dopey says about the safeties was certainly true against Philadelphia. It was Hyde's worst game as a Bill. I thought the safeties were better against Washington. That was more linebackers and a bit of Dline. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

We dont expect him to make tackles but getting moved all over is not what you want from him or his position.

 

 

[GETTOTHE50]

Idk what I’m talking about 

[Locomark]

Star’s whipping boy problem has to do with his paycheck. Space eaters still need to make the occasional splash play in the backfield, push the pile back, get the ugly turnover. Think old players of Adams or Washington eating space BUT making plays too. That is what we want for a highly compensated guy. Otherwise let’s just get some sumo guy if the expectation is to hold 2 guys up and never make any plays. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

Money is part of the problem. When you consider that the top 3 most expensive players on the defense are on the line, it’s an added layer of frustration. 

There also seems to be caveats, like he is our best interior lineman. First that’s not saying much. Second, Well I hope so, he gets paid 3 times more than the next highest  interior lineman. 

I guess we could argue this forever. What I see on many plays is a guy getting blown off the ball too quickly. Yes he is supposed to eat blockers, but a little more resistance would be helpful so other players can play their gaps.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

The players seem to be using 6-2 as a crutch for not worrying about specific aspects of performance. I've seen several players say similar things. Maybe it's not true inside the building, but the public comments are concerning at this point. The same thing happened when the Jauron team started well, so that's one reason why it concerns me. At that time, it was "We're 5-0." It quickly became "We're 5-3." As we all know, soon there weren't any crutches left. Hopefully we don't see the same thing here.

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Good article with lots of quotes. Point is that while fans scapegoat, the Bills think he's doing the job, and Lotulelei doesn't care what anyone outside the locker room thinks.

 

https://buffalonews.com/2019/11/08/buffalo-bills-star-lotulelei-nfl-skurski/

 

I was surprised this hadn't been posted. I searched for Lotulelei and checked the first few pages. Anyway, it's a long article and a good one. It's around three or four times the size of my excerpts.

 

Excerpts:

 

“ 'Overall, Star has been our most consistent player throughout training camp, preseason and through the season,' defensive line coach Bill Teerlinck said Thursday. 'Versus the run, his footwork, pad level, key recognition, block recognition, step and punch, it’s all as good as anybody we've had, day in and day out.'

"After the Eagles ran for 218 yards in a Week 8 win over the Bills, coach Sean McDermott defended Lotulelei’s play, repeating a line he’s used frequently before when talking about what’s asked of the “one-technique” defensive tackle in his scheme.

“ 'It’s the most unselfish position on the defense,' McDermott said. 'Your name doesn’t get in the paper a lot and sometimes that’s a good thing as it relates to staying in your gap and doing your job. … Those defensive tackles don’t get a lot of recognition for the dirty work.'

"At least, not from the outside world.

“ 'He does so much stuff for this defense that people have no idea about,' fellow defensive tackle Jordan Phillips said. 'I know he's never going to say anything about (outside criticism). That's just the way he is. He doesn't care. He goes out there and he does his job at a very high level. A lot of people can't do the stuff that he does, including me. I try to go in there and do what he does, and it doesn't always go right. But that man does it every play. He eats up blocks and lets us go out there and do our thing. There's a reason why he's paid what he's paid, because he does it right. He's the centerpiece of our defense.' ”

 

... and ...

 

" 'Speaking for myself, I tried to do too much,” [Lotulelei] said. 'There were two big runs that were on me, where I tried to do too much. I'll peak into a different gap when that's not my gap. We're supposed to be a gap-sound defense and everybody is supposed to do their job. It's just a matter of everybody trusting each other and then being disciplined. They were both huge runs, and I take full responsibility for those. It's just a matter of trusting the guy next to you and being disciplined.' ”

 

... and ...

 

“ 'For myself, I feel like I've been playing fine according to what's been asked of me to do,' [Star] said. 'Especially as a defensive line group, we've been playing fine. …  At the end of the day we're 6-2. I don't think it's something to lose sleep over.' ”

 

That last bit is the key, IMO, "... according to what's been asked of me to do."

Fans here want him to do things he's not asked to do. And then call him a failure when he instead does what McDermott asked him to do. As noted above, he admitted culpability on two plays last week. Doesn't say he's perfect, at all. But there's been - as always - an urge to identify a scapegoat and to grab for the torches and pitchforks, and Lotulelei is this month's whipping boy on the boards.

just like “Process” is ambiguous and undefined (therefore shielding McD and company from criticism because of some undefined term). 
 

Star “being asked to do” is an undefined term and hence shielding from Criticism.  When does any DT get asked to be blown off ball for three yards and turned completely with his back to the play?  This is the fans don’t know football argument so therefore can’t criticize.  Fact: that 1 yard gap to fill turns into a 4 yard hole when Skates is off the LOS by 3 yards, also that 3 yard blown off kills LBer angles and provides more wash for them to work through. 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I don't think star is the problem at our DT position.

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, Locomark said:

Star’s whipping boy problem has to do with his paycheck. Space eaters still need to make the occasional splash play in the backfield, push the pile back, get the ugly turnover. Think old players of Adams or Washington eating space BUT making plays too. That is what we want for a highly compensated guy. Otherwise let’s just get some sumo guy if the expectation is to hold 2 guys up and never make any plays. 

I'm not going to try to convince you that the money doesn't come into play, it definitely does.

 

Let's, just for a moment, suppose that this story is 100% factual. What does that mean?  I have the answer. Anyone else?

[Don Otreply]

This means that there are some folk here, who it appears do not know as much as they would pretend they do, some have back peddled a bit already, which is always entertaining. Those that bring up his wages make themselves sound the fool, especially being it has zero effect on the teams ability to spend.. 

 

No player wins every single snap, thinking fans know this.  Star like all our guys owns his mistakes, and has at it again. 

 

Maybe if if we are lucky the vitriol will be reduced for, what,  A day maybe... ya can lead a horse to water, but ya can’t make it drink, as the saying goes

 

Now let’s watch these board members spin spin spin ?.

 

 

 

Go Bills!!!

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Don Otreply

[uticaclub]

His job is like an offensive lineman; your name doesn’t get mentioned when you do good, only when you do bad. Star's name is getting mentioned because he is doing poorly. He admitted to screwing up and being responsible for two big runs, sure we all make mistakes, but he is being paid a lot of money to not make mistakes like that. I saw one play last week were half a guy turned him around, blocker was engaged with another DL, got one hand on Star and turned him around. If Vincent Taylor improves at all & Corey Liuget has anything left, don’t be surprised to see Star has a healthy scratch. This article was worthless, of course his teammates & coaches are standing up for him, this isn't a team to throw guys under the bus, but the reason his play is being called in question, is because he's getting paid $10M to play at less than replacement level

Edited November 9, 2019 by uticaclub

[Don Otreply]

1 minute ago, uticaclub said:

His job is like an offensive lineman, your name doesn’t get mentioned when you do good, only when you do bad. Stars name is getting mentioned because he is doing bad. He admitted to screwing up and being responsible for 2 big runs, sure we all make mistakes but he is paying paid a lot of money to not make mistakes like that. I saw one play last week were half a guy turned him around, blocker was engaged with another DL, got one hand on Star and turned him around. If Vincent Taylor improved at all & Corey Liuget has anything left, don’t be surprised to see Star has a healthy scratch. This article was worthless, of course his teammates & coaches are standing up for him, this isn't a team to throw guys under the bus, but the reason his play is being called in question, is because he's getting paid $10M to play at less than replacement level

You are wrong, no where in his contract does it say  “you are paid to not make mistakes “ it’s an monumentally weak statement, that you lamely try to use as a fact.  Nuthin but luv, but ya gotta try a little harder...

 

Go Bills!!!!

[uticaclub]

Just now, Don Otreply said:

You are wrong, no where in his contract does it say  “you are paid to not make mistakes “ it’s an monumentally weak statement, that you lamely try to use as a fact.  Nuthin but luv, but ya gotta try a little harder...

 

Go Bills!!!!

The reason guy A gets paid more then guy B is usually because guy A makes less mistakes, it's implied. 

[BobChalmers]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I don't think star is the problem at our DT position.

 

I haven't looked at all of it - but there is plenty of film showing him getting shoved backwards - he's not doing his job as the "1" nearly often enough.

5 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

The reason guy A gets paid more then guy B is usually because guy A makes less mistakes, it's implied. 

 

Uhm - no - you get paid more to PERFORM BETTER OVERALL - not making mistakes is certainly one part of that...

 

But (as an example) I could train a 120 pound athlete to "not make any mistakes" as an NFL DT in terms of technique and handling assignments, etc. - he would still suck at his job.

[uticaclub]

6 minutes ago, BobChalmers said:

 

I haven't looked at all of it - but there is plenty of film showing him getting shoved backwards - he's not doing his job as the "1" nearly often enough.

 

Uhm - no - you get paid more to PERFORM BETTER OVERALL - not making mistakes is certainly one part of that...

 

But (as an example) I could train a 120 pound athlete to "not make any mistakes" as an NFL DT in terms of technique and handling assignments, etc. - he would still suck at his job.

Part of overall performance is not making mistakes. Tom Brady, average arm talent, doesn't make mistakes, gets paid more than Blake Bortles.

[Don Otreply]

Just now, uticaclub said:

The reason guy A gets paid more then guy B is usually because guy A makes less mistakes, it's implied. 

Getting paid has only to do with negotiating skills, and leveraging those traits that can be leveraged. On top of which his wages do not effect the teams ability to spend. It’s a weak argument you are continuing on with.  Star is good at what he does as compared in his market place. 

No one gets perfect in return of wages, it just does not, and has not ever happened. The team one day in the future will cut him, be happy with that thought.

 

Go Bills!!!

 

 

 

 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

getting moved all over

I don't think that's a fair assessment of Star.  I watched several quarters with an eye on him.  Although he does not get off blocks and finish plays, he tends to hold his ground against mostly double team blocks.  I'd characterize him as a role player, not a play maker.

[Lurker]

It's the nature of the position. 

 

Even though he was a better player than Star, Ted Washington had the same problem.   Big contract, outsized expectations...

[BUFFALOKIE]

I like saying "Star La-too-lay-lay". It's fun.

 

[Cripple Creek]

7 minutes ago, Lurker said:

It's the nature of the position. 

 

Even though he was a better player than Star, Ted Washington had the same problem.   Big contract, outsized expectations...

nah, Ted was & is loved

[TH3]

4 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

I would be fine too if I got paid a ***** ton of money.

 

Bills are under the cap....

Edited November 9, 2019 by TH3

[HOUSE]

Score more points and keep the Defense fresh

[uticaclub]

20 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Getting paid has only to do with negotiating skills, and leveraging those traits that can be leveraged. On top of which his wages do not effect the teams ability to spend. It’s a weak argument you are continuing on with.  Star is good at what he does as compared in his market place. 

No one gets perfect in return of wages, it just does not, and has not ever happened. The team one day in the future will cut him, be happy with that thought.

 

Go Bills!!!

 

 

 

 

Star isn't doing good at what he does, that's why he is being called out. You don't have to understand much about football to watch an All-22, see him getting pushed around by single blockers or never even get in the way of a running back.

[Buffalo Junction]

18 minutes ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

I don't think that's a fair assessment of Star.  I watched several quarters with an eye on him.  Although he does not get off blocks and finish plays, he tends to hold his ground against mostly double team blocks.  I'd characterize him as a role player, not a play maker.

The issue is that fans expect Star to perform in a manner similar to other NTs in that salary range; many of whom make more splash plays. Unfortunately, that comes with neglecting several details... most notably when Star was signed he was one of the best NTs on the market, and they needed a plug and play NT. Beane & Co can definitely upgrade the position, but it will likely be a phase out as they develop younger players to take over the role. 

[uticaclub]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

The issue is that fans expect Star to perform in a manner similar to other NTs in that salary range; many of whom make more splash plays. Unfortunately, that comes with neglecting several details... most notably when Star was signed he was one of the best NTs on the market, and they needed a plug and play NT. Beane & Co can definitely upgrade the position, but it will likely be a phase out as they develop younger players to take over the role. 

I don't care about splashy plays, I just don't want to be last in the league in interior rush yards allowed. Star is supposed to stop that from happening, that's why Star is getting called out

[Don Otreply]

16 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Star isn't doing good at what he does, that's why he is being called out. You don't have to understand much about football to watch an All-22, see him getting pushed around by single blockers or never even get in the way of a running back.

You don’t get perfect in return of wages, never ever happens.

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

We dont expect him to make tackles but getting moved all over is not what you want from him or his position.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. But I don't think that happens nearly as often as many on here say it does. If it did, he would have been off the team before the season. As the article says, the Bills are happy with his preformance. Teerlinck says he's been their most consistent player.

 

That is what you want from him and his position.

[Buffalo Junction]

5 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

I don't care about splashy plays, I just don't want to be last in the league in interior rush yards allowed. Star is supposed to stop that from happening, that's why Star is getting called out

It’s almost unavoidable when the player rotating with Star is on IR. We currently have a 350 pound man playing more than he should which is going to lead to mistakes. Let’s also keep in mind that Edmunds is making the calls. In most systems the MLB is responsible for adjusting gap assignments on the fly. 

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Locomark said:

Star’s whipping boy problem has to do with his paycheck. Space eaters still need to make the occasional splash play in the backfield, push the pile back, get the ugly turnover. Think old players of Adams or Washington eating space BUT making plays too. That is what we want for a highly compensated guy. Otherwise let’s just get some sumo guy if the expectation is to hold 2 guys up and never make any plays. 

 

 

That may be what YOU want from someone with his paycheck. But not so much McDermott and Beane.

 

There are several big space eaters up that high in the average salary rankings. So several teams that value that skill set enough to pay a guy enough to very clearly show they disagree with you. And McDermott is one. They knew what they were getting with Star. McDermott had coached him for several years and obviously wanted him here and didn't have a problem with the salary. So yeah, the whipping boy problem does indeed have to do with fans having different priorities than the coaching staff does.

 

 

[CaptnCoke11]

Edmunds needs to be better.  Drafted him to be that dominant middle linebacker and so far been pretty disappointing this season.  

[Cripple Creek]

37 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Score more points and keep the Defense fresh

So, you are a proponent of the running game vs Cleveland?

 

 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

His job is like an offensive lineman; your name doesn’t get mentioned when you do good, only when you do bad. Star's name is getting mentioned because he is doing poorly. He admitted to screwing up and being responsible for two big runs, sure we all make mistakes, but he is being paid a lot of money to not make mistakes like that. I saw one play last week were half a guy turned him around, blocker was engaged with another DL, got one hand on Star and turned him around. If Vincent Taylor improves at all & Corey Liuget has anything left, don’t be surprised to see Star has a healthy scratch. This article was worthless, of course his teammates & coaches are standing up for him, this isn't a team to throw guys under the bus, but the reason his play is being called in question, is because he's getting paid $10M to play at less than replacement level

 

 

You're close but not right.

 

Do your job on the interior and the announcers won't mention your name much. Fans often do. Analysts do. And the desperate searchers for scapegoats do.

 

Star gets mentioned almost never by the game commentators. And lots by those who need a whipping boy. That doesn't mean he's not doing well.

 

And the idea that you can't take anything positive said by teammates and coaches seriously is absolute nonsense. In fact, when you see that line of argument from a fan, you're generally looking at someone with a pitchfork and a torch. If a guy isn't doing his job, teammates don't come out and say great things about him. There's a ton of ways of commenting on a guy who's not getting it done without lying or throwing him under the bus. When a guy is getting beaten, teammates who don't want to throw him under the bus say things like, "Hey, we're in this as a team, this is everyone's fault," or "He gives 110%," or "He's a team guy, a good guy," or "He puts picks up his lunchpail and comes every day." There are a million of them.

 

And those aren't the kinds of things they're saying about Lotulelei. They're very specifically saying he's playing well, he's doing his job, he's doing what the coaches want done and that his job is low on glory and fans don't understand or appreciate it. They're saying he earns his salary despite many fans not understanding that.

[Blank Stare]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Speaking for myself, I tried to do too much,” [Lotulelei] said. 'There were two big runs that were on me, where I tried to do too much. I'll peak into a different gap when that's not my gap. We're supposed to be a gap-sound defense and everybody is supposed to do their job. It's just a matter of everybody trusting each other and then being disciplined. They were both huge runs, and I take full responsibility for those. It's just a matter of trusting the guy next to you and being disciplined.

I love his part. Accountability. I was critical of Star a few weeks back when he seemed dismissive to the media in answering for the bad run defense against the Eagles. After seeing this, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that they may have caught him with the competitive juices still flowing. 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

I don't care about splashy plays, I just don't want to be last in the league in interior rush yards allowed. Star is supposed to stop that from happening, that's why Star is getting called out

 

 

Again, nonsense.

 

Star isn't supposed to stop that. The whole run defense is. Star is supposed to do his part in stopping that. Each of them is. The fact that you want to put all of that on Star says more about you than it does about him.

 

And I'm unconvinced about that number as well. "Interior rush yards"? Willing to be convinced if you can show the source with a link. Seems doubtful to me, as Football Outsiders has the Bills giving up fewer yards per play than the NFL average on runs to the "MID/GUARD" area. They have us 12th best at that.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl/2019

Edited November 9, 2019 by Thurman#1

[NoSaint]

56 minutes ago, Lurker said:

It's the nature of the position. 

 

Even though he was a better player than Star, Ted Washington had the same problem.   Big contract, outsized expectations...

unfortunately star is compensated in a way that as a gap filler you shouldn’t be starting many comparisons with “even though he was a better player than star....”

 

Generally speaking the guys paid more are the disruptive penetrating players. 
 

there must be at least some concern that the center of our defense had one of the top paid pluggers and a top 10 pick at DT and a very high pick at MLB and run stuffing is considered a weak point at the moment. Hopefully the kids keep growing and elevating their play 

[Thurman#1]

44 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Star isn't doing good at what he does, that's why he is being called out. You don't have to understand much about football to watch an All-22, see him getting pushed around by single blockers or never even get in the way of a running back.

 

 

I certainly don't watch every play from all the games on All-22. Too much time. I didn't watch more than a few from last week for instance.

 

But when we started hearing about this, I did watch every one of his snaps from two games in a row, the Dolphins and the Eagles. And he was mostly holding his ground and doing a fine job against double-teams. There just wasn't much of what we hear about from you guys. A play here and there? Yes. But few and far between.

[White Linen]

Is this him choosing the wrong gap?