Trubisky, hanging on by a thread

[JaCrispy]

16 hours ago, aristocrat said:

nick foles might be available. jags should just trade him.  i never saw what anyone saw in trubisky in college. 

If I’m not mistaken, I thought the rumor was that the Pegula’s liked him...

[GoBills808]

5 hours ago, zow2 said:

 

I don't like Trubisky at all.  He definitely lacks a certain intangible needed to be a solid QB.  

 

But when Allen plays the Redskins this Sunday,  keep in mind that Trubisky vs Washington this season was 25 for 31, 231 yards, 3 TD's, 1 int.  sacked 3 times.   

Not amazing but we would be gushing if Josh had that production.

Mmm he did NOT look impressive in that game. I wouldn't be gushing if Allen had a similar performance. 

[BringBackOrton]

24 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Keep saying good, but you are arguing a point with yourself. 
 

Mahomes was great in his very first start and has been consistently great from that point forward - many 300 yard and multi-touchdown games. He won the league MVP in his first full season of starting. If that’s not an anomaly then I guess I’m using the wrong definition. 

Okay, I guess I’m trying to tease out a different distinction. What unrealistic expectations do you think are made of young QB’s? Do you think folks expect a QB like Allen to be Mahomes? Or do they expect him to just be a good QB?

 

Do you think Jags fans are upset that Minshew isn’t playing at a Mahomes level, or do you think they are content with his level of play as a rookie?

Edited October 29, 2019 by BringBackOrton

[zow2]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Mmm he did NOT look impressive in that game. I wouldn't be gushing if Allen had a similar performance. 

maybe you wouldn’t but half the board would have serious wood seeing 80% and 3 TD passes.  
 

again. I’d rather have Allen all day everyday over Trubisky but it’s fair to make comparisons against what others are doing vs similar opponents 

[Nextmanup]

Another situation similar to the Andy Dalton thread currently going.

 

It takes ridiculous amounts of time for these franchises to give up on quarterbacks.  Trubisky's time is coming to a close.

 

They mostly employ a strategy that is completely opposite to what makes sense.

 

Single out 1 single guy, put all your money on him, and try to force him to be "The guy" for a period of years.

 

IMO teams should have a "young QB development squad" going at all times with multiple QBs on the roster and teams acquiring new QBs constantly, with an active competition going.

 

Play the odds and give yourself more spins of the wheel.  Eventually you'll luck into one that can do it.

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, zow2 said:

maybe you wouldn’t but half the board would have serious wood seeing 80% and 3 TD passes.  
 

again. I’d rather have Allen all day everyday over Trubisky but it’s fair to make comparisons against what others are doing vs similar opponents 

Two of his TDs were from the goal line iirc and he was missing guys/being inaccurate/looking flustered and taking sacks...just not an impressive performance outside his stat line. Everything was underneath, wide open first reads, or screens. He had like one impressive throw when he got flushed and hit Robinson I think for a TD

[Malazan]

Year 3 is it for QBs now. They don't get to sit a season or two. If you're not part of the solution by year 3 then it's time to cut bait.

 

If Allen doesn't improve a good deal for the rest of the season (poor play calling or not) then the Bills need to bring in some competition in a Bridgewater or similar and if Allen can't win the job as the better QB then they need to cut bait. 

[BillsfaninChicago]

20 hours ago, Rocket94 said:

I live in Chicago now, and the fans that I meet don't want to talk about Trubisky.

Oh yeah it is awesome two months ago they were ready to crown him MVP. They are the biggest fair weather fans in sports.

[zow2]

I don't think Nagy was part of the Trubisky draft pick was he?  as I recall he was brought in as a QB-offensive guru type coach to help mentor the kid and get him up to speed.   So in that sense, Nagy isn't married to him.  He's not going to sink with the Mitch Trubisky-Titanic.  He's not going to allow his Chicago head coaching career to die that way.

[Logic]

If Bills fans think THEY'RE upset that the Bills didn't get Watson or Mahomes, try being a Bears fan! They traded UP in that draft to pick the first QB off the board, and it was neither Watson nor Mahomes. The guy they DID take is likely to be a backup at best for the majority of his career, IF he doesn't flame out of the NFL entirely.

Yikes.

[Rocket94]

34 minutes ago, Leonhart2017 said:

Oh yeah it is awesome two months ago they were ready to crown him MVP. They are the biggest fair weather fans in sports.

They sure as heck don't talk football much. They want Trubisky gone!

[WotAGuy]

5 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Okay, I guess I’m trying to tease out a different distinction. What unrealistic expectations do you think are made of young QB’s? Do you think folks expect a QB like Allen to be Mahomes? Or do they expect him to just be a good QB?

 

Do you think Jags fans are upset that Minshew isn’t playing at a Mahomes level, or do you think they are content with his level of play as a rookie?

I can only speak for myself.  I sometimes find myself wondering if Mahomes can do it, why can’t Josh Allen?  But then I realize that Mahomes is an anomaly and try to temper my expectations of Josh.  So when I read some criticism of Josh, I wonder if others are experiencing the same expectations. It’s a seductive thing to see Mahomes play at an All Pro level and transfer that expectation onto other young QBs. Much like Brady was a 6th round anomaly, and people wonder why someone drafted at the top of the draft doesn’t become as good as Brady. 

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

I can only speak for myself.  I sometimes find myself wondering if Mahomes can do it, why can’t Josh Allen?  But then I realize that Mahomes is an anomaly and try to temper my expectations of Josh.  So when I read some criticism of Josh, I wonder if others are experiencing the same expectations. It’s a seductive thing to see Mahomes play at an All Pro level and transfer that expectation onto other young QBs. Much like Brady was a 6th round anomaly, and people wonder why someone drafted at the top of the draft doesn’t become as good as Brady. 

do you ever think if Watson can do it, why can’t Allen? Or if Minshew can do it, why not Allen? Or if Goff can do it, why not Allen? Or if Wentz can do it, why not Allen?

[WotAGuy]

44 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

do you ever think if Watson can do it, why can’t Allen? Or if Minshew can do it, why not Allen? Or if Goff can do it, why not Allen? Or if Wentz can do it, why not Allen?

Not really. None of those guys is in the same class as Mahomes. Maybe Watson makes me wonder a little, but the others aren’t “great”. But the performance of those guys may raise expectations for some people I suppose.

 

But, I will say that the league is changing in that it is becoming more and more commonplace for a rookie to step in and have sporadic success in the form of 300-yard games and multi-TD games.  
 

Allen’s peak so far seems to have been the Miami game last year when he had 5 TDs. Personally, I think he has improved a lot this year and hopefully that trend will continue. He will require some patience for sure.  

[BringBackOrton]

56 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Not really. None of those guys is in the same class as Mahomes. Maybe Watson makes me wonder a little, but the others aren’t “great”. But the performance of those guys may raise expectations for some people I suppose.

 

But, I will say that the league is changing in that it is becoming more and more commonplace for a rookie to step in and have sporadic success in the form of 300-yard games and multi-TD games.  
 

Allen’s peak so far seems to have been the Miami game last year when he had 5 TDs. Personally, I think he has improved a lot this year and hopefully that trend will continue. He will require some patience for sure.  

It has nothing to do with 300 yard or multi TD games. I’m not sure Allen beats Minshew in a single statistical category. Ditto for Wentz or Goff.

 

I certainly ask myself why all these young first, second and third year QB’s are able to be better than our QB. I’m growing increasingly worried about the answer.

[Laughing Coffin]

Midway through 2020 season will too be the accurate time to kind of give up on Allen as well if he doesn't improve from his current play.

 

Our 2020 schedule is so difficult, if Allen is below average we won't win more than 4-5 games.  We'll be in line to draft his replacement

 

We're actually in a good position being married to Allen as our starter through the 2020 season, however which way it pans out.

[Big C]

17 hours ago, aristocrat said:

the important thing is they move on from mitch quick.  don't try and hang on to it. 

 

This is the truth. And the Bucs should have moved on from Wintson and the Titans should have moved on from Mariota 2 years ago as well. Teams over-commit to QBs they drafted and it holds them back.

11 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

Keep saying good, but you are arguing a point with yourself. 
 

Mahomes was great in his very first start and has been consistently great from that point forward - many 300 yard and multi-touchdown games. He won the league MVP in his first full season of starting. If that’s not an anomaly then I guess I’m using the wrong definition. 

 

Mahomes was OK in his first start. 0 TDs, 1 INT. Maybe you're thinking of his start in week 1 of 2018, but his first start was week 17 of 2017 after the Chiefs locked in their playoff spot. I remember thinking he looked alright, but he still made a huge jump by week one in 2018. The same is true of Watson and his first start, but I think you're still right in that when you watched them play you said to yourself "this guy looks like a quarterback" which I don't think I could ever say about Mitch. Poor guy got way overdrafted, was booed by Bulls fans before he even took a snap, and then proceeded to be exactly who we thought he would be. 

 

Right now, Josh Allen is at times Mitch and at times Mahomes and I hope he finds his way to being more like Mahomes in the second half of this season. I really want him to be the guy. 

[Dr.Sack]

12 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Based on? 

My eyes

[WotAGuy]

14 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

It has nothing to do with 300 yard or multi TD games. I’m not sure Allen beats Minshew in a single statistical category. Ditto for Wentz or Goff.

 

I certainly ask myself why all these young first, second and third year QB’s are able to be better than our QB. I’m growing increasingly worried about the answer.

Understood.  But I don’t have any worries at this point.  Josh has barely a full season of games played. He was at a smaller school.  He had many detractors and criticisms coming out in the draft. His development seems commensurate with all those factors. Some guys just take longer to develop and begin to excel. I think draft position creates unrealistic expectations as well. The draft is still largely a crap shoot. 

[Chicken Boo]

On 10/28/2019 at 7:37 PM, WotAGuy said:

An anomaly like Mahomes raises expectations for all young QBs.  It’s often disappointing to have unrealistic expectations. 

 

Trubisky sucks.  He has weapons all over the field and a good defense.

 

Funny enough, if the Bears were able to trade for a recently benched Andy Dalton, they'd be a pretty good team.

[BringBackOrton]

28 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Understood.  But I don’t have any worries at this point.  Josh has barely a full season of games played. He was at a smaller school.  He had many detractors and criticisms coming out in the draft. His development seems commensurate with all those factors. Some guys just take longer to develop and begin to excel. I think draft position creates unrealistic expectations as well. The draft is still largely a crap shoot. 

My friend, Minshew was a sixth rounder out of East Carolina and Wash State. He hasn’t played half of a full season in the NFL. He didn’t even take starter reps in preseason. M He has managed to throw 13 TDs to 2 picks. He has a 98 passer rating. He is throwing to something called DJ Chark and Chris Conley. 

27 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Trubisky sucks.  He has weapons all over the field and a good defense.

 

Funny enough, if the Bears were able to trade for a recently benched Andy Dalton, they'd be a pretty good team.

So would we. I think Dalton beats the Pats. I think Dalton makes the Eagles game close.

[teef]

13 hours ago, Laughing Coffin said:

Midway through 2020 season will too be the accurate time to kind of give up on Allen as well if he doesn't improve from his current play.

 

Our 2020 schedule is so difficult, if Allen is below average we won't win more than 4-5 games.  We'll be in line to draft his replacement

 

We're actually in a good position being married to Allen as our starter through the 2020 season, however which way it pans out.

oh no.  no you didn't...

[LeGOATski]

6 minutes ago, teef said:

oh no.  no you didn't...

Dude, you have to consider the 2020 draft and FA as well.

 

Some teams got A WHOLE LOT BETTER

[teef]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

Dude, you have to consider the 2020 draft and FA as well.

 

Some teams got A WHOLE LOT BETTER

can you believe that on this date...october 30, 2019...the year of our lord, someone actually tried to reference how hard the schedule would be the following season?  i want to punch holes in dry wall right now.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

These are the people who should REALLY take a bath on Mahomes and Watson. Traded UP to take Trubisky.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

can you believe that on this date...october 30, 2019...the year of our lord, someone actually tried to reference how hard the schedule would be the following season?  i want to punch holes in dry wall right now.

Same day that McDermott completely went off the handle and vaguely said something that could be construed as moderately offensive to an unknown party, while arguably being possibly slightly hypocritical.

 

Something's going on....

[DCofNC]

On 10/28/2019 at 10:50 PM, BringBackOrton said:

Most QB’s who are good though are usually pretty good by their second or third year though. Your initial point was about unrealistic expectations though, and there’s nothing unrealistic about expecting young QB’s to be good by their second to third years because, again, most good QB’s are good by that time.

 

The anomalies are really the sucky QB’s in years 2-3 eventually becoming good. 

Whoa whoa whoa, you are letting facts get in the way of the good story people still want here.

[dave mcbride]

16 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

Not really. None of those guys is in the same class as Mahomes. Maybe Watson makes me wonder a little, but the others aren’t “great”. But the performance of those guys may raise expectations for some people I suppose.

 

But, I will say that the league is changing in that it is becoming more and more commonplace for a rookie to step in and have sporadic success in the form of 300-yard games and multi-TD games.  
 

Allen’s peak so far seems to have been the Miami game last year when he had 5 TDs. Personally, I think he has improved a lot this year and hopefully that trend will continue. He will require some patience for sure.  

I think your general point is good, but I also think that Watson and Wentz are at least very good (better than good) with greatness potential in them. And you can't argue with Goff's production. 

 

I mean, just look at Watson's numbers. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsDe00.htm

Edited October 30, 2019 by dave mcbride

[teef]

36 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Same day that McDermott completely went off the handle and vaguely said something that could be construed as moderately offensive to an unknown party, while arguably being possibly slightly hypocritical.

 

Something's going on....

so close to halloween!

[C.Biscuit97]

On 10/29/2019 at 12:37 AM, Dr.Sack said:

Allen > Trubisky. 

I hope so but how can anyone say that right now.  MT had a fair superior 2nd year than Allen is having now. 

[WotAGuy]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

My friend, Minshew was a sixth rounder out of East Carolina and Wash State. He hasn’t played half of a full season in the NFL. He didn’t even take starter reps in preseason. M He has managed to throw 13 TDs to 2 picks. He has a 98 passer rating. He is throwing to something called DJ Chark and Chris Conley. 

 

And thus my point about the draft being a crap shoot. Minshew wasn’t on anyone’s radar and apparently he can really play. He may be playing better than he did in college. He is another anomaly, albeit one that doesn’t get the press that Mahomes does.
 

Josh Allen is who many described him before the draft - a bit of a raw project who will take some time to develop. And that’s exactly what he has proven to be. 

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

And thus my point about the draft being a crap shoot. Minshew wasn’t on anyone’s radar and apparently he can really play. He may be playing better than he did in college. He is another anomaly, albeit one that doesn’t get the press that Mahomes does.
 

Josh Allen is who many described him before the draft - a bit of a raw project who will take some time to develop. And that’s exactly what he has proven to be. 

 

Let's give it some time to see if Minshew is a real deal or not.

He did beat the Bengals, Jets, Broncos and Titans but I've read here (today, yesterday and I'm sure tomorrow) that this means nothing.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 minutes ago, teef said:

so close to halloween!

I ain’t afraid of no ghosts.

*
Thanks to the OP for not titling the thread ‘Trubisky, Livin’ on a Prayer’.

[Teddy KGB]

2 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Trubisky sucks.  He has weapons all over the field and a good defense.

 

He has one weapon named Allen Robinson 

 

Thats about it tbh 

[Chicken Boo]

14 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

He has one weapon named Allen Robinson 

 

Thats about it tbh 

 

Tarik Cohen/David Montgomery, Trey Burton and Taylor Gabriel.  All weapons to a competent QB.

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

And thus my point about the draft being a crap shoot. Minshew wasn’t on anyone’s radar and apparently he can really play. He may be playing better than he did in college. He is another anomaly, albeit one that doesn’t get the press that Mahomes does.
 

Josh Allen is who many described him before the draft - a bit of a raw project who will take some time to develop. And that’s exactly what he has proven to be. 

How many raw projects succeed in the NFL? Isn’t their success the anomaly?

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Tarik Cohen/David Montgomery, Trey Burton and Taylor Gabriel.  All weapons to a competent QB.

 

Lmao.    What has David Montgomery and Trey Burton ever done.      Be honest ?

 

David Montgomery should change his name to guy whose not as good as Jordan Howard. 

 

Taylor Gabriel is a midget masquerading as a #2 wideout. 

 

Its Just Allen Robinson.   

Edited October 30, 2019 by Teddy KGB

[WotAGuy]

44 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

How many raw projects succeed in the NFL? Isn’t their success the anomaly?

There’s lots of different anomalies.  The one I initially described was Mahomes’ instant greatness leading to unrealistic expectations for other young QBs. I believe that to be true and people’s impatience with Josh Allen is in part, I believe, because Mahomes and maybe Watson have excelled very quickly.  Their success is still, to me, an anomaly and not the norm. May have to put Lamar in with them as this year progresses. 
 

Aaron Rodgers was drafted in the lower part of the first round and sat for a good while behind Farve before getting his shot. His greatness is hard to judge as an anomaly because he had to sit behind a Hall of Famer. I wonder if he would have been instantly great like Mahomes. He was good, not great his first full season after sitting for three years. His second starting season was pretty great. 
 

Brees took a while to become great. Eli, Peyton and Rivers all took some time to become great. Those are becoming dated examples, but the fact is until very recently, young QBs took a while to play at a very high level. That’s why I consider Mahomes an anomaly.

[stuvian]

he just needs a hug from Jake Lockers Mom

 

[Laughing Coffin]

11 hours ago, teef said:

can you believe that on this date...october 30, 2019...the year of our lord, someone actually tried to reference how hard the schedule would be the following season?  i want to punch holes in dry wall right now.

 

Have you looked at our opponents?  We play the NFC West which is very strong, the AFC West, and likely Texans/colts and Browns/Steelers.  But ya I'm a little hasty on it, there might be a team bus crash or something that just tears some of these teams current rosters asunder.