DCOrange Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/injury-proneness-running-qbs-russell-wilson-lamar-jackson/opdkjdfw91001uuwfzt4rm82s According to Sports Info Solutions, QBs are injured: Every 236 designed QB runs Every 91.7 scrambles Every 92.5 sacks Every 67.3 knockdowns after throwing Edited October 17, 2019 by DCOrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Bangarang said: I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much. It seems that Allen’s scrambles are far more devastating to defenses, than the designed runs. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I was surprised that designed runs wasn't higher, but it occurred to me that a QB sneak is technically a designed run. I'd be interested in seeing that category split into sneaks vs other designed runs like QB draws, options in which the QB runs, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobot Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much. Agreed, definitely too frequent. I think 1-2 well designed run-plays per game makes sense, but the goal of the mid-game sneaks play needs to be better defined.. like do we need Allen to pick up 20 yards, or are just trying to keep the defense off balance, make it clear to Allen so he's not getting pounded. Edited October 17, 2019 by Jobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 How does this compare with injuries to non-running qbs? Is there a big differential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, WhoTom said: I was surprised that designed runs wasn't higher, but it occurred to me that a QB sneak is technically a designed run. I'd be interested in seeing that category split into sneaks vs other designed runs like QB draws, options in which the QB runs, etc. Yeah I responded to the author on Twitter to see if kneel downs for example are included in the designed runs. I assume QB sneaks are but they're at least getting hit on those so it's defensible. Kneel downs should obviously be filtered out but I'm not sure if they would be or not. 7 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: How does this compare with injuries to non-running qbs? Is there a big differential? That's the point of the other numbers there. You're far more likely to get hurt getting hit in the pocket than you are on the run. Of course you're less likely to get hurt if you're making the throw without getting hit at all so that needs to be taken into account as well, but I think even if you adjust for the % of plays your QB is kept completely clean in the pocket, you'd still end up arriving at running plays being safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Im much more worried about the non-designed runs. JA diving for firsts or exposing himself trying to run for a first down. Designed runs have blockers out in front but when Josh free lances is when he takes the biggest hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 55 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much. 39 minutes ago, Jobot said: Agreed, definitely too frequent. I think 1-2 well designed run-plays per game makes sense, but the goal of the mid-game sneaks play needs to be better defined.. like do we need Allen to pick up 20 yards, or are just trying to keep the defense off balance, make it clear to Allen so he's not getting pounded. He has only 41 runs total so far. How many were planned runs? I bet not more than 2-3 a game. He scrambles a lot and doesn't look for long before he just takes off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Last year Allen bailed from the pocket early and his athleticism got him several hundred yards. This year the coaches have pounded into him to hang in the pocket and make a read and a throw. This will prolong his career and should force Allen to be a better QB. But I wouldn't mind seeing him bail early on occasion since it was such a huge weapon last season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Interesting and counter intuitive data, thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Don Otreply said: It seems that Allen’s scrambles are far more devastating to defenses, than the designed runs. They are. 13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He has only 41 runs total so far. How many were planned runs? I bet not more than 2-3 a game. He scrambles a lot and doesn't look for long before he just takes off. If you take out sneaks it is 1 or 2 a game maximum. Normally in goalline or 3rd down situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He has only 41 runs total so far. How many were planned runs? I bet not more than 2-3 a game. He scrambles a lot and doesn't look for long before he just takes off. Allen is a stubborn runner and looks to get that extra few yards and in the process can take some pretty brutal hits. I wouldn’t want to put him in a position where he’s getting hit. If Allen can keep being smart and get down or out of bounds without getting then it wouldn’t be a big deal. Until that happens I’ll cringe a little each time he takes off with the ball. Edited October 17, 2019 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, zow2 said: Last year Allen bailed from the pocket early and his athleticism got him several hundred yards. This year the coaches have pounded into him to hang in the pocket and make a read and a throw. This will prolong his career and should force Allen to be a better QB. But I wouldn't mind seeing him bail early on occasion since it was such a huge weapon last season. I agree, those runs he made last year would shorten his career. Defenders will take cheap shots, as we’ve already seen. A guy who is the master of the slide ( and sure seems to have eyes in the back of his helmet) , Russell Wilson, is about the only player that can truly get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, DCOrange said: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/injury-proneness-running-qbs-russell-wilson-lamar-jackson/opdkjdfw91001uuwfzt4rm82s According to Sports Info Solutions, QBs are injured: Every 236 designed QB runs Every 91.7 scrambles Every 92.5 sacks Every 67.3 knockdowns after throwing So this would imply that the point several have made is correct - that a QB is about 1/3 less likely to be injured on a designed QB run than on a sack or a knockdown He's about as likely to be injured on a sack as on a scramble BUT Does it say anything about the difference between a QB who slides, runs OOB, or "gives himself up" on designed QB runs vs. stiff-arming folks and "running headfirst into human beings"? It seems to me that running style must play into those injury figures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Run him till he pukes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Bangarang said: I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much. Agreed! Unless it’s a 4th and 1/goal to go. Why are we allowing the D to get a free hit on the most important player on our team in return for a 4 yard gain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobot Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He has only 41 runs total so far. How many were planned runs? I bet not more than 2-3 a game. He scrambles a lot and doesn't look for long before he just takes off. My criticism of Allen so far this year isn't that he takes off too quickly, but it seems like he goes through his progressions with a sense of greed..by passing up easy dump offs, so by the time he finds his deeper routes to be covered he looks lost and indecisive of whether to run or not. It felt like last year he was much 'safer' when running the ball, because the designed runs as well as his improvised runs had intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, DCOrange said: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/injury-proneness-running-qbs-russell-wilson-lamar-jackson/opdkjdfw91001uuwfzt4rm82s According to Sports Info Solutions, QBs are injured: Every 236 designed QB runs Every 91.7 scrambles Every 92.5 sacks Every 67.3 knockdowns after throwing Looks like getting knocked down after throwing is the most dangerous thing. They should stop passing to keep him available Edited October 17, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: They are. If you take out sneaks it is 1 or 2 a game maximum. Normally in goalline or 3rd down situations. exactly 1 hour ago, Bangarang said: Allen is a stubborn runner and looks to get that extra few yards and in the process can take some pretty brutal hits. I wouldn’t want to put him in a position where he’s getting hit. If Allen can keep being smart and get down or out of bounds without getting then it wouldn’t be a big deal. Until that happens I’ll cringe a little each time he takes off with the ball. Wilson has been taking those hits for years. Hasn't missed a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: exactly Wilson has been taking those hits for years. Hasn't missed a start. I see Wilson as a smart runner and I’m not sure what one has to do with the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Bangarang said: I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much. I hate the designed runs, hate him not give up sliding, and hate Micah Hyde returning punts. All from the same token, any increased injury risk is unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Allen's first injury doesn't fit into those categories, right? His arm got banged after throwing the ball but he wasn't knocked down, if I remember it. Allen's injury this year was on a scramble, which is just as dangerous as staying in the pocket and taking a sack. No issue with him scrambling. The designed runs have seemed fairly safe to me and they haven't been called a ton. Once or twice a game. And they are apparently safer than taking a sack or a knockdown in the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 49 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I see Wilson as a smart runner and I’m not sure what one has to do with the other. He runs a lot, takes a lot of hits. Played for years behind a bad O-line. Josh will be fine running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He runs a lot, takes a lot of hits. Played for years behind a bad O-line. I’ve watched quite a lot of Seahawks games over the years mainly because of Wilson. He’s probably one of the smartest and most instinctive runners I’ve seen. 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Josh will be fine running. I mean, maybe, but he did just get blasted and suffer a concussion while running just a few weeks ago..If he learns from it and gets down before taking contact then fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I am curious .... what is the RBs Injury Likelihood ? Higher, Lower ?? or who cares because he isn't the QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, DCOrange said: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/injury-proneness-running-qbs-russell-wilson-lamar-jackson/opdkjdfw91001uuwfzt4rm82s According to Sports Info Solutions, QBs are injured: Every 236 designed QB runs Every 91.7 scrambles Every 92.5 sacks Every 67.3 knockdowns after throwing Which shows what I have been saying all along...a QB is more likely to get hurt staying in the pocket than out on a run. Look at all the running QB's over the years, most of the injuries didnt come while running, most occurred on hits in the pocket. With todays rules where a QB can give up his body to avoid hits or simply go out of bounds, the likely hood of an injury is less compared to staying in the pocket and taking a big hit. Plus, on a run, a QB is usually running away from the impending impact (players chasing him rather than running at him from the front) as any defender directly in front of them, they would simply slide or go out of bounds. Not to mention those defenders would likely be smaller DB's and Safeties too. But in the pocket, the defender is usually coming fast at a QB that isnt moving away from the hit and sometimes even stepping into the hit if making the throw. This is why I have been saying not to freak out over Josh running in terms of worrying about him being hit. Yes he can still get hurt, but the point is, the odds of getting are not increasing like so many fear when he is on the run. The one problem Josh has though is that he's tough and big, so he does initiate more contact than he should, but I think he's learning the hard way not to do that now. Edited October 17, 2019 by Alphadawg7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 53 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I’ve watched quite a lot of Seahawks games over the years mainly because of Wilson. He’s probably one of the smartest and most instinctive runners I’ve seen. I mean, maybe, but he did just get blasted and suffer a concussion while running just a few weeks ago..If he learns from it and gets down before taking contact then fantastic. Stats show he is at least as likely to get that big hit getting sacked as on a designed run play or a scramble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 hours ago, DCOrange said: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/injury-proneness-running-qbs-russell-wilson-lamar-jackson/opdkjdfw91001uuwfzt4rm82s According to Sports Info Solutions, QBs are injured: Every 236 designed QB runs Every 91.7 scrambles Every 92.5 sacks Every 67.3 knockdowns after throwing So he should do more designated QB runs than throws since they happen less often? Silly stat not in content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Limeaid said: So he should do more designated QB runs than throws since they happen less often? Silly stat not in content. I think the main point is that people shouldn't freak out so much about a QB that runs. It's likely safer health-wise than them throwing the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Uh....Mahomes...???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Mahomes injury could significantly change the Bills' approach The severity of an injury to Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes could change Buffalo's perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Mark80 said: Uh....Mahomes...???? Yeah, probably the last time we ever see a QB sneak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I guess Patrick Mahomes didn't read the stats on running QBs. I was always taught QB sneaks are about as safe a play for a QB as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, RoyBatty is alive said: I guess Patrick Mahomes didn't read the stats on running QBs. I was always taught QB sneaks are about as safe a play for a QB as you can get. who was your teacher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: who was your teacher? numerous football coaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, RoyBatty is alive said: numerous football coaches seems there may be some changes in what you were once taught. so, you played QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: seems there may be some changes in what you were once taught. so, you played QB? Not sure why you have this apparent need to grill me bit to answer your question, no i did not play QB, you think that info is only privy to the QBs, think again, part of broad strategy in playing the game. Also my son currently plays so yes safe to say i am up so date. Besides the endless hours i waste reading & listening to football experts in the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BITE ME Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Running Quarterbacks are disasters. Defenses eventually figure them out. You can only go so far with a guy that can't throw the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 One more # to add to the statistics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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