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Running QBs Injury Likelihood

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I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much.

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Just now, Bangarang said:

I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much.

It seems that Allen’s scrambles are far more devastating to defenses, than the designed runs.

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I was surprised that designed runs wasn't higher, but it occurred to me that a QB sneak is technically a designed run. I'd be interested in seeing that category split into sneaks vs other designed runs like QB draws, options in which the QB runs, etc.

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16 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much.

 

Agreed, definitely too frequent.  I think 1-2 well designed run-plays per game makes sense, but the goal of the mid-game sneaks play needs to be better defined.. like do we need Allen to pick up 20 yards, or are just trying to keep the defense off balance, make it clear to Allen so he's not getting pounded.

Edited by Jobot

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9 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

I was surprised that designed runs wasn't higher, but it occurred to me that a QB sneak is technically a designed run. I'd be interested in seeing that category split into sneaks vs other designed runs like QB draws, options in which the QB runs, etc.

 

Yeah I responded to the author on Twitter to see if kneel downs for example are included in the designed runs. I assume QB sneaks are but they're at least getting hit on those so it's defensible. Kneel downs should obviously be filtered out but I'm not sure if they would be or not.

7 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

How does this compare with injuries to non-running qbs?  Is there a big differential?

That's the point of the other numbers there. You're far more likely to get hurt getting hit in the pocket than you are on the run. Of course you're less likely to get hurt if you're making the throw without getting hit at all so that needs to be taken into account as well, but I think even if you adjust for the % of plays your QB is kept completely clean in the pocket, you'd still end up arriving at running plays being safer.

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Im much more worried about the non-designed runs. JA diving for firsts or exposing himself trying to run for a first down. Designed runs have blockers out in front but when Josh free lances is when he takes the biggest hits.

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55 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much.

 

39 minutes ago, Jobot said:

 

Agreed, definitely too frequent.  I think 1-2 well designed run-plays per game makes sense, but the goal of the mid-game sneaks play needs to be better defined.. like do we need Allen to pick up 20 yards, or are just trying to keep the defense off balance, make it clear to Allen so he's not getting pounded.

 

He has only 41 runs total so far.  How many were planned runs?  I bet not more than 2-3 a game.   He scrambles a lot and doesn't look for long before he just takes off.

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Last year Allen bailed from the pocket early and his athleticism got him several hundred yards.

 

This year the coaches have pounded into him to hang in the pocket and make a read and a throw.  This will prolong his career and should force Allen to be a better QB.

But I wouldn't mind seeing him bail early on occasion since it was such a huge weapon last season. 

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1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

It seems that Allen’s scrambles are far more devastating to defenses, than the designed runs.

 

They are. 

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

He has only 41 runs total so far.  How many were planned runs?  I bet not more than 2-3 a game.   He scrambles a lot and doesn't look for long before he just takes off.

 

If you take out sneaks it is 1 or 2 a game maximum. Normally in goalline or 3rd down situations. 

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15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

He has only 41 runs total so far.  How many were planned runs?  I bet not more than 2-3 a game.   He scrambles a lot and doesn't look for long before he just takes off.


Allen is a stubborn runner and looks to get that extra few yards and in the process can take some pretty brutal hits. I wouldn’t want to put him in a position where he’s getting hit. If Allen can keep being smart and get down or out of bounds without getting then it wouldn’t be a big deal. Until that happens I’ll cringe a little each time he takes off with the ball.

Edited by Bangarang

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9 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Last year Allen bailed from the pocket early and his athleticism got him several hundred yards.

 

This year the coaches have pounded into him to hang in the pocket and make a read and a throw.  This will prolong his career and should force Allen to be a better QB.

But I wouldn't mind seeing him bail early on occasion since it was such a huge weapon last season. 

I agree, those runs he made last year would shorten his career. Defenders will take cheap shots, as we’ve already seen. A guy who is the master of the slide ( and sure seems to have eyes in the back of his helmet) , Russell Wilson, is about the only player that can truly get away with it. 

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1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/injury-proneness-running-qbs-russell-wilson-lamar-jackson/opdkjdfw91001uuwfzt4rm82s

 

According to Sports Info Solutions, QBs are injured:

  • Every 236 designed QB runs
  • Every 91.7 scrambles
  • Every 92.5 sacks
  • Every 67.3 knockdowns after throwing

 

So this would imply that the point several have made is correct - that a QB is about 1/3 less likely to be injured on a designed QB run than on a sack or a knockdown

He's about as likely to be injured on a sack as on a scramble

 

BUT

 

Does it say anything about the difference between a QB who slides, runs OOB, or "gives himself up" on designed QB runs vs. stiff-arming folks and "running headfirst into human beings"?

 

It seems to me that running style must play into those injury figures

 

 

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Run him till he pukes.

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1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much.

Agreed! Unless it’s a 4th and 1/goal to go. Why are we allowing the D to get a free hit on the most important player on our team in return for a 4 yard gain?

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34 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

He has only 41 runs total so far.  How many were planned runs?  I bet not more than 2-3 a game.   He scrambles a lot and doesn't look for long before he just takes off.

 

My criticism of Allen so far this year isn't that he takes off too quickly, but it seems like he goes through his progressions with a sense of greed..by passing up easy dump offs, so by the time he finds his deeper routes to be covered he looks lost and indecisive of whether to run or not.  It felt like last year he was much 'safer' when running the ball, because the designed runs as well as his improvised runs had intention.

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1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/injury-proneness-running-qbs-russell-wilson-lamar-jackson/opdkjdfw91001uuwfzt4rm82s

 

According to Sports Info Solutions, QBs are injured:

  • Every 236 designed QB runs
  • Every 91.7 scrambles
  • Every 92.5 sacks
  • Every 67.3 knockdowns after throwing

 

Looks like getting knocked down after throwing is the most dangerous thing. 

 

They should stop passing to keep him available 

Edited by Over 29 years of fanhood

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They are. 

 

If you take out sneaks it is 1 or 2 a game maximum. Normally in goalline or 3rd down situations. 

 

exactly

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:


Allen is a stubborn runner and looks to get that extra few yards and in the process can take some pretty brutal hits. I wouldn’t want to put him in a position where he’s getting hit. If Allen can keep being smart and get down or out of bounds without getting then it wouldn’t be a big deal. Until that happens I’ll cringe a little each time he takes off with the ball.

 

Wilson has been taking those hits for years.  Hasn't missed a start.

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12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

exactly

 

Wilson has been taking those hits for years.  Hasn't missed a start.


I see Wilson as a smart runner and I’m

not sure what one has to do with the other.

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2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

I’ll just come out and say it. I hate the designed runs for Allen. I think Daboll calls them too much.

I hate the designed runs, hate him not give up sliding, and hate Micah Hyde returning punts. All from the same token, any increased injury risk is unnecessary. 

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Allen's first injury doesn't fit into those categories, right? His arm got banged after throwing the ball but he wasn't knocked down, if I remember it.

 

Allen's injury this year was on a scramble, which is just as dangerous as staying in the pocket and taking a sack. No issue with him scrambling.

 

The designed runs have seemed fairly safe to me and they haven't been called a ton. Once or twice a game. And they are apparently safer than taking a sack or a knockdown in the pocket.

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49 minutes ago, Bangarang said:


I see Wilson as a smart runner and I’m

not sure what one has to do with the other.

 

He runs a lot, takes a lot of hits.  Played for years behind a bad O-line. 

 

Josh will be fine running.

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2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He runs a lot, takes a lot of hits.  Played for years behind a bad O-line. 


I’ve watched quite a lot of Seahawks games over the years mainly because of Wilson. He’s probably one of the smartest and most instinctive runners I’ve seen. 
 

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Josh will be fine running.


I mean, maybe, but he did just get blasted and suffer a concussion while running just a few weeks ago..If he learns from it and gets down before taking contact then fantastic.

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