First Half wasn't as awful as everyone is saying

[Pokebball]

38 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

people are just DETERMINED they're right about this guy

 

 

I think there are three camps.  One is determined they are right about the guy being a bust.  Another is determined they are right the guy being great.

 

And then there is the third, most reasonable camp of posters.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

52 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

It's a better play call if Gore doesn't decide to cut left into the green guys instead of following the block which was pushing the Jets line back to the right.

 

 

You’re  saying the fourth all time leading rusher in nfl history doesn't know how to hit the right hole? 

52 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

They WERE moving the ball well, but if Josh Allen throws up 15 - 25 picks/INTS this season, the Bills will be drafting another QB real soon.

 

 

 

 

You understand Jim Kelly AVERAGED just under 16 INTs for his career right? 

 

Big Ben had 23 ints his third year, but I guess the Steelers ended up keeping him. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

 

 

For the last ? time it was -3 ? turnovers, look at the boxscore and stop reading idiotic tweets and repeating it like fact people

 

 

 

OK on the last play in desperation the Jets gave up a fumble.  So you stand as technically correct at -3.  This fact does not erase that the Bills were -4 until the final second of the game.  I stand on my original point which was if you are -4 in turnovers (for 59 minutes and 59 seconds) you are most likely going to lose.  

 

Do you feel better now?

[Virgil]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

OK on the last play in desperation the Jets gave up a fumble.  So you stand as technically correct at -3.  This fact does not erase that the Bills were -4 until the final second of the game.  I stand on my original point which was if you are -4 in turnovers (for 59 minutes and 59 seconds) you are most likely going to lose.  

 

Do you feel better now?

 

I forgive you.  But as a mod, I expect better statistical accuracy of you going forward

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

OK on the last play in desperation the Jets gave up a fumble.  So you stand as technically correct at -3.  This fact does not erase that the Bills were -4 until the final second of the game.  I stand on my original point which was if you are -4 in turnovers (for 59 minutes and 59 seconds) you are most likely going to lose.  

 

Do you feel better now?

 

[whisper mode] 

what do you think??    

 

[BuffaloBill]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

 

I forgive you.  But as a mod, I expect better statistical accuracy of you going forward

 

 

Actually the bar for mods is quite low, subterranean in fact.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

 

I forgive you.  But as a mod, I expect better statistical accuracy of you going forward

 

Stats LIE.    They can be twisted 6 ways to Sunday. 

 

Here at TDB we thrive at making that 7  ways to Sunday. 

Just now, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Actually the bar for mods is quite low, subterranean in fact.

 

Like knuckle dragging low???  

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Stats LIE.    They can be twisted 6 ways to Sunday. 

 

Well, considering that 72.96% of stats are made up, that makes sense.

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Joe in Winslow

[Ralonzo]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

You’re  saying the fourth all time leading rusher in nfl history doesn't know how to hit the right hole? 

 

Dawkins shunts Leo inside and seals. Adams fills the hole, Smith whams him. Zay and Beasley have lost position on their blocks so the outside is dead. Instead of following Dawkins/Smith, Gore turns into the 2 Jets.

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Dawkins shunts Leo inside and seals. Adams fills the hole, Smith whams him. Zay and Beasley have lost position on their blocks so the outside is dead. Instead of following Dawkins/Smith, Gore turns into the 2 Jets.

 

 

It’ll be worth a look on all 22.  Can’t tell if he jump cut to get around the blocker in front of him in frame #3.

 

the guy is hardly a dancer 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Dawkins shunts Leo inside and seals. Adams fills the hole, Smith whams him. Zay and Beasley have lost position on their blocks so the outside is dead. Instead of following Dawkins/Smith, Gore turns into the 2 Jets.

 

 

 

I love that you labeled the Jets player in the last screenshot. 

 

Watching that play live I thought Gore should've made it out of the endzone easily. What a piss poor decision and bad running by Gore. 

[VW82]

I agree with the OP to an extent. I'd much rather have an offense that moves the ball and occasionally makes mistakes than a mistake-free offense that doesn't move it.

 

That said, there were WAY too many mistakes. We easily could have had six or seven turnovers through three quarters instead of just four. The average offense scores around 22 ppg. We scored 17 and gave them 8; netting 9 ppg on offense is straight up bad no matter how you slice it up, and they were technically -8 through three quarters, so perhaps it was just as awful as everyone said. It was only one game though and the defense looked as advertised so there's that.   

[Mr. WEO]

“Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?”

[Ralonzo]

3 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I love that you labeled the Jets player in the last screenshot. 

 

Watching that play live I thought Gore should've made it out of the endzone easily. What a piss poor decision and bad running by Gore. 

One last frame which shows Gore trying to power to the left right next to the big gaping hole.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I love that you labeled the Jets player in the last screenshot. 

 

Watching that play live I thought Gore should've made it out of the endzone easily. What a piss poor decision and bad running by Gore. 

 

Cole Beasley blocking... there’s an example of something that makes little sense. 

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Ralonzo said:

One last frame which shows Gore trying to power to the left right next to the big gaping hole.

 

You are right. For some reason, Gore decided to shift left rather than running straight ahead through the hole. It is pretty clear on the replay.

[Ralonzo]

3 minutes ago, VW82 said:

I agree with the OP to an extent. I'd much rather have an offense that moves the ball and occasionally makes mistakes than a mistake-free offense that doesn't move it.

 

heh, just occurred to me that this is exactly what everyone here wanted during the Tyrod "Take care of the ball even if you never make a first down" Taylor era.

 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

4 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

In review of yesterday's game, I keep reading how terrible and ineffective the Bills offense was until the 4th Quarter.  I completely disagree.

Were they mistake prone and sloppy at times?  Absolutely.

But when you really break it down, the offense was consistently putting together strong drives for a good chunk of the day.

 

On the day, the Bills had the ball a total of 12 times. 

- One possession was the kneel down at the half. 

- One possession was running out the clock at the end of the game.

- Then you have the Cole Beasley bounce (pretty much a fluke), which was returned for a touchdown.  This drive was one play.

- Then you have the safety (bad call by the refs), which also lasted one play.

 

That leaves 8 true possessions for the Bills offense.

1.  Drive #1 (7 plays, 37 yards):  They easily marched down the field to the Jets 26 yard line.  Then Dion Dawkins missed a block, resulting in the sack/strip.

2.  Drive #3 (9 plays, 35 yards):  Another drive into scoring position, until the Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty on Jon Feliciano.

3.  Drive #4 (3 plays, 7 yards):  This was a really bad series, which also included the INT that was overturned by penalty.

4.  Drive #5 (9 plays, 58 yards):  Yet another very strong drive, ended by the botched snap on the QB sneak.

5.  Drive #6 (5 plays, 30 yards):  The offense was starting to move again.  Then we have the tipped pass, which was also intercepted.

6.  Drive #9 (9 plays, 50 yards):  Ended in our first 3 points of the day.

7.  Drive #10 (8 plays, 85 yards):  Touchdown

8.  Drive #11 (8 plays, 80 yards):  Touchdown

 

 

Bottom line... On a snap-by-snap basis, I felt like the Bills controlled the game on both sides.  Defense was outstanding all day.  The offense had some really bad bounces and bad luck.  They had some really bad mistakes at the wrong time.  The narrative is that something "woke the offense up" during the 4th quarter.  In reality, I think we just figured out how to finish our drives.

 

 

It was great to see the Bills win but you basically blow off all the bad about the team and praise all the good. It doesn't matter how good we move down the field if it ends up in a blown play, INT or fumble, those are the type of plays that make you a playoff team or a pretender. Had it not have been for an inept K who missed a FG and XP then we would have lost the game. I'm not trying to be a debbie downer but if we give up 4 turnovers in a game the odds of us winning again are very low to near impossible. On a side note I liked the resilience of this team, they never gave up and our free agent pickups really seemed to step up. Just my opinions.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

I've also noticed a lot of criticism towards Brian Daboll's playcalling.  I thought it was great.

 

The Jets defensive strength is run defense.  Their weakness is pass defense.

And before the game, their players were throwing jabs at Josh Allen, saying they just needed to "make him play quarterback."

 

The pass-heavy approach was the right one.  And if not for the dumb mistakes that killed our drives and kept points off the board, everybody would be praising Daboll this morning.  He can't control everything.

 

The play on the safety and the back to back sneaks were poor calls. I had no problems with the rest other than some expected sloppy execution. We beat a quality division rival on the road down 16. And we survived 4 TO's. Clean that up with our D and we'll be alright. 

[Ralonzo]

11 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Cole Beasley blocking... there’s an example of something that makes little sense. 

 

I would think if that was Duke and not Cole, the safety doesn't happen. And we also learned that Foster is a willing blocker but doesn't always know what his job is.

 

Wonder if that will be addressed in roster juggling along with the inevitable re-signing of O Captain My Captain, but that would require parting with one of the 15 tight ends or Conor McBlackmail.

 

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The play on the safety and the back to back sneaks were poor calls. I had no problems with the rest other than some expected sloppy execution. We beat a quality division rival on the road down 16. And we survived 4 TO's. Clean that up with our D and we'll be alright. 

 

I think the call on the safety was fine, personnel not so much. Beasley is barely a speed bump as a blocker. And looked like Gore missed a huge hole and ran into traffic. It happened to Gore, probably happens with McCoy, might happen with Motor, never happens with Bell.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Ralonzo

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The play on the safety and the back to back sneaks were poor calls. I had no problems with the rest other than some expected sloppy execution. We beat a quality division rival on the road down 16. And we survived 4 TO's. Clean that up with our D and we'll be alright. 

I'm not sure what play Daboll should have called on that safety. They were on their own goal line. The hole was there and Gore didn't hit it. 100% on Gore and it led to a 10 point swing. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Ralonzo said:

 

I would think if that was Duke and not Cole, the safety doesn't happen. And we also learned that Foster is a willing blocker but doesn't always know what his job is.

 

Wonder if that will be addressed in roster juggling along with the inevitable re-signing of O Captain My Captain, but that would require parting with one of the 15 tight ends or Conor McBlackmail.

 

I was thinking any WR is better than Cole blocking. Or make it a tight end instead of WR. 

[RememberTheRockpile]

6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I'm not sure what play Daboll should have called on that safety. They were on their own goal line. The hole was there and Gore didn't hit it. 100% on Gore and it led to a 10 point swing. 

There were 9 Jets in the box. Play action might have been a better call.

[Ralonzo]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I was thinking any WR is better than Cole blocking. Or make it a tight end instead of WR. 

 

The silver lining of that play is the left side of the OL and Smith just mauled the Jet DL + Adams.

[Nextmanup]

Let the rationalization threads begin! 

 

 

I guess this sort of thread makes more compelling reading than "Bills Struggle Like Hell to Beat Lousy Football Team in New Jersey".

 

 

[billsfan1959]

Just now, RememberTheRockpile said:

There were 9 Jets in the box. Play action might have been a better call.

And, yet, the hole was there. Blame Gore, not Daboll.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Ralonzo said:

 

The silver lining of that play is the left side of the OL and Smith just mauled the Jet DL + Adams.

 

Line play looked good for the most part vs a stout front. 

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

Let the rationalization threads begin! 

 

 

I guess this sort of thread makes more compelling reading than "Bills Struggle Like Hell to Beat Lousy Football Team in New Jersey".

It does make for compelling reading, outside of posts like this...

[Patrick Duffy]

Damn, I already stoked and ready for week 2 to hurry up and get here.

 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

OK, I just got done watching the game again.  Rewound the pivotal plays too.

Josh (among some other in the first half) had some horrible plays AND some bad luck plays.

 

I got to say also that Josh was slinging the ball really good and the receivers were making some good catches too.

There was a whole lot of good things going on.

 

The whole off season almost everyone was saying that it's all on how JA performs is the most important question.

Josh Allen showed both sides of that question yesterday.

It seems Daboll gave him a lot of room to make decisions (looked like a number of audibles) and adjustments.

 

We are seeing a work in progress here and it seems (at least in the NYJ game) they are not going to baby JA's development.

That's fine by me.  For everyone trying to "grade" the O, one game is one game.

Next Sunday may be very interesting and should tell us more how this season is going to be played.

[RememberTheRockpile]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

And, yet, the hole was there. Blame Gore, not Daboll.

False dichotomy.

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, RememberTheRockpile said:

False dichotomy.

Not really

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

You know what's interesting everyone?

 

I keep hearing 4 Turnovers by JA = Sucks, terrible Josh, bad Josh, etc.

 

Just a quick cursory look at Tom Brady's career and his # of 4 INT games is approaching double figures, and this doesn't include fumbles!

 

The Bills haven't been and won't be turning it over 4x a game. Does that sound like something McD would accept?

[billsfan1959]

Just now, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

You know what's interesting everyone?

 

I keep hearing 4 Turnovers by JA = Sucks, terrible Josh, bad Josh, etc.

 

Just a quick cursory look at Tom Brady's career and his # of 4 INT games is approaching double figures, and this doesn't include fumbles!

 

The Bills haven't been and won't be turning it over 4x a game. Does that sound like something McD would accept?

Now you have gone and done it: Comparing Josh Allen to Tom Brady. That won't go unpunished...

[LSHMEAB]

The first half was AWFUL offensively; Disgusting. Dysfunctional. Disorganized. Chaotic. Terrible play calling. Poor execution. All of it.

 

Fumble. Interception. Punt. Punt. Fumble. Interception. End of half(That was our best drive).

 

But the Bills WON. I'm conditioned for these kind of threads when we lose; but when we win? I guess we really are moving up the ranks.

[Ralonzo]

48 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

OK on the last play in desperation the Jets gave up a fumble.  So you stand as technically correct at -3.  This fact does not erase that the Bills were -4 until the final second of the game.  I stand on my original point which was if you are -4 in turnovers (for 59 minutes and 59 seconds) you are most likely going to lose.  

 

Do you feel better now?

Better than I would if there had been no turnover on that play and the Jets scored.

[MJS]

Yeah, I was saying all game long that we were clearly the better team. Our defense dominated. Our offense moved the ball with regularity. I knew if we could stop shooting ourselves in the foot that there was a good chance of coming back.

[ColoradoBills]

13 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

And, yet, the hole was there. Blame Gore, not Daboll.

 

In retrospect, Hyde thought the punt would bounce into the endzone but there was 2 jet players around.

I bet he wishes he would of fair caught it at the 6.

[DCOrange]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Agreed.  Lots to build on, and beats the he** out of straight 3 and outs.

 

 

I agree with this part.

 

 

But yeah, as for this take - I agree with the folks who are pointing out that you seem to be discounting the drives you don't like.

When you look at the 1Q drive results "fumble...int....punt...punt...." - I'm sorry, you don't get to call it a "strong drive" when it fizzles.

 

What you can say is, yes, there are positives to build on, and if the Bills can move forward and get out of their own way, they can win

 

What you can't say is that "The Bills controlled the game on offense".

 

I mean, seriously?  If the fan of another team we beat came on here, and their offense was consistently stalled by turnovers and penalty but he said "our team controlled the ball on offense...we marched it down the field until we didn't...." we'd laugh, right?

 

 

 

 

Sure, but we'd laugh because we don't care about the other team's next 15 games; we only care that we stole the first one.

 

Moving the ball on a consistent basis in week 1 is much more promising than a couple flukey turnovers are concerning.

[Shaw66]

I will chime here in here response to the OP and not in response to all of the well-done sub-discussions that are going on here.   It's interesting to hear so many people here debate finer points, like the game plan, Allen's particular throws.  Good stuff.

 

I think the OP's original premise is correct.   I was at the game, and I was unhappy about the situation as it developed through the first half (that is, I didn't like that the Bills weren't winning), but I wasn't unhappy with how they were playing.   They were playing fine, just making a few mistakes and getting a few bad bounces.  

 

I find I keep coming back to something Belichick said right after Atlanta collapsed in the Super Bowl.  He said something like "we weren't worried at halftime, because we were competitive on the field, we just weren't competitive on the scoreboard."   That's how I felt at halftime.  

 

When the Jets scored, I was worried a good deal, but I kept thinking the Bills were okay.   I admit, it was a little weird, but I kept thinking the Bills are built for this.   Then it was 16-3, Bills still hadn't gotten into the end zone, but I felt like it was starting.   Then it just unfolded.  The Bills didn't look like they were doing a lot different, except they figured out how to spring Singletary.  The press makes a big deal about Moses going down, but although that may have helped the Bills, I don't think it made that much difference.   The Bills just kept on executing, just like they had all game, maybe a little better.  The Jets didn't have an answer.   

 

So, yes, absolutely, the Bills were not as bad in the first half as people say.  They took control of the game on the field from the very beginning and never let go.  It was impressive.