First Half wasn't as awful as everyone is saying

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

GOOD TEAMS OVERCOME OBSTACLES 

 

that's what we did in the 2nd half.  

 

If we focus on the 1st half: terrible.  

 

Second half: amazing really.  we adjusted on the O-line, playcalling, Allen was better (threw the ball away a few times).  Really, it's the type of adjustments we have been waiting for Bills coaches and players to make.  Finally happened, and we won.  Good sign going forward.  

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

How'd that incoming second half meltdown prediction work out for you?

 

Are you working on being negative about the win here?

 

 

not at all.  But if we are talking about the 1st half, it was terrible.  And really, based on Bills history, no one could have predicted a better second half.  

 

The second half, as I pointed out in other posts, was very good.  Many adjustments were made, including the O-line coming together, more Singletary, and better decision making by Allen.  The safety look off on the JB TD pass was also nice.  

[eball]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

ask any NFL coach what a pick 6 and safety in the 1st half with 0 points are.  A hot mess might be the kindest think you'd hear them call it.  

 

I think the whole point of the OP is that you learn more from actually watching all of the plays than by just looking at a set of random statistics.  The results for the Bills were awful (no points, four turnovers) but an examination of what actually happened to produce those results leaves (at least to the OP and some of us) a different conclusion.

 

You and many others are apparently guilty of a "results-based analysis" and while yes, the final score is all that ultimately matters, it is both relevant and important to understand precisely how one got there.

 

And oh yeah, the Bills won.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

But didn't everyone complain that McDermott was to conservative? Relying too much on the run? You can't please this fan base.

 

There is such a thing as a middle road, you know?

[Codyny13]

I agree, I saw some tweet by some boston  globe write that said “josh Allen, still terrible.” Not what I saw at the game at all. I thought Allen looked good, maybe a few nerves being week 1, but I think you see an even better Josh this week.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

that's what we did in the 2nd half.  

 

If we focus on the 1st half: terrible.  

 

Second half: amazing really.  we adjusted on the O-line, playcalling, Allen was better (threw the ball away a few times).  Really, it's the type of adjustments we have been waiting for Bills coaches and players to make.  Finally happened, and we won.  Good sign going forward.  

 

If only there was a site that broke down yardage per quarter  (w/o me having to do the math) 

 

Even the announcers said the Bills were dominating on BOTH lines.    Lady luck went to the green men then flipped to the good guys 

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

I think the whole point of the OP is that you learn more from actually watching all of the plays than by just looking at a set of random statistics.  The results for the Bills were awful (no points, four turnovers) but an examination of what actually happened to produce those results leaves (at least to the OP and some of us) a different conclusion.

 

You and many others are apparently guilty of a "results-based analysis" and while yes, the final score is all that ultimately matters, it is both relevant and important to understand precisely how one got there.

 

And oh yeah, the Bills won.

 

I'm sure the Bills will learn from watching the first half.  In fact, they seemed to learn quickly and made the necessary adjustments--a point I've made numerous times in this thread.  

 

Watching the 1st half in isolation, which is what the OP is doing, simply isn't enough.  The 1st half was as bad as it was. Plain and simple.  Good teams don't march around the field and get zero points.  

 

If he wanted to say the game wasn't as bad as it looked, okay then, based on the halftime adjustment.  

 

But the first half was bad.  

 

[Jobot]

13 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

We just differ here. IMO, not only was I fine with the game plan, I think it was the RIGHT game plan. They moved the ball. In the 1st half, there were turnovers that were the result of bad bounces, there were turnovers that were the result of bad execution, and there were penalties that all derailed possible scoring drives. Any of them could have happened with a more conservative game plan. 

 

They did not turn the ball over and make those same mistakes and penalties in the second half and they won the game. Why do people choose to believe what happened in the first half defines this team or the coaching, rather than what happened in the second half?

 

The defense played great the whole game. I do not discount the turnovers or penalties on the part of the offense; however, looking past that in a more complex analysis: the offense moved the ball well all game, Allen made good decisions for the most part, was accurate with some very impressive throws, made some terrific calls at the line in reading the defense, and led them to a fourth quarter comeback. It was his twelfth game in the NFL and he has shown real improvement.

 

IMHO, I am fine with letting him air it out when game planning for a specific opponent calls for it. I believe it did yesterday. Maybe it wasn't that we were fortunate to come away with a win as much as the Jets were fortunate we din't blow them out?

 

I'll say this, in knowing the outcome of the game, I'll take the aggressive approach.  I think there was much to be gained by Allen and the offense experience-wise, to go out and just play.  My previous points are basically of the mindset that wins come at a premium in this league, and shouldn't be taken for granted even against a lesser opponent.  So I'm happy we got the win, but more happy and feel very fortunate that we didn't miss out winning this particular game had a couple bounces gone differently.

 

It's like we won taking the Tin Cup approach, but our opponent also double bogey'd the hole.

[Green Lightning]

This falls under woulda, coulda, shoulda. It was a terrible half. Four turnovers - however realized - and a safety, is brutal football. Another errant toss should have been picked and another called back on a penalty. Hey we won. Plenty of positives to take out of this game but let's not sugar coat a half of a game that if repeated against most teams, would have let to a bad defeat. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Fair enough point. The All-22 is going to show you WR's open all over the field consistently for the Bills (for once) indicating a pass heavy offense should be called. Beasley alone could have been passed to every single down, he was open every play. The Jets secondary is not very good at all from what I saw yesterday.

 

That's pretty much what I've meant by saying I understand the logic of the play calls at a high level, other things being equal.

With a young QB and an OL with no experience playing together, other things are not equal. 

 

But hey, we survived, we came back, and we got the W!  On to the Giants!

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

If only there was a site that broke down yardage per quarter  (w/o me having to do the math) 

 

Even the announcers said the Bills were dominating on BOTH lines.    Lady luck went to the green men then flipped to the good guys 

 

of course, the announcers were terrible.  I think one thought J. Brown was on the Jets at one point.  

 

You make your own "luck."  If we played like the Jets in the first half, we'd be complementing our D on getting tips and converting to INT's, and for getting the safety.  

 

The tip was a poorly thrown ball by Josh, and the safety was terrible play-calling.  I"m not sure our O-line was dominating the Jets in the 1st half.  The D-line was dominating the Jets OL, but not our OL in the first half.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 minutes ago, Codyny13 said:

I agree, I saw some tweet by some boston  globe write that said “josh Allen, still terrible.” Not what I saw at the game at all. I thought Allen looked good, maybe a few nerves being week 1, but I think you see an even better Josh this week.

 

contradictory but hey   I didn't invent them 

 

the cliche'  # 1   Defenses are usually ahead of the offenses in Training Camp.

 

the cliche'  # 2   More points are scored in Sept before defenses have time to adjust.

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

of course, the announcers were terrible

 

Oh my.   

[Ralonzo]

Remarked in the game day thread toward halftime that we've seen this movie before. Everything (and I mean everything) breaks a teams' way but they fail to put up points. The dipsy-doo here is that it's normally the Bills with the luck box upon whom 2nd half reality sets in.

 

I mean, the Bills tip a half dozen passes and all of them hit the turf - except the one that bounced right to the inline TE still blocking. They get two bounces, INT+TD, and INT. The 4th quarter efficacy could easily have been the entire game for the Bills' O. Take away one or two of the turnovers and this could have been ugly fast, with the requisite hundred fights in the stands. I was really hoping for that anyway ?

 

The surprise in the game, based on the preponderance of the individual plays, wasn't that the Bills won, it's that it was a one point game.

 

One more underappreciated note from the game: The Jets made a few adjustments to make themselves marginally more effective in the third quarter, but by the 4th, the Bills coaches had countered fairly well and the 4th quarter was domination. When's the last time that happened?

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

There is such a thing as a middle road, you know?

Ideally, you would like to see a balance. However, there are times to be pass heavy or run heavy. Those turnovers could have happened under a completely balanced attack. IMHO, I have no problem with times where balance shifts, even drastically, if it is called for. IMHO, the game plan was fine.

[Pokebball]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

In my opinion, none of Josh Allen's turnovers were his fault.

BUT... he probably had 3 incompletions that could have been picked off.

 

So far, the narrative around Allen is completely off.

I'm not seeing a QB that struggles with accuracy.  I'm not seeing a QB that struggles with pocket presence, or one that takes off running too quickly.  I'm not seeing a QB that struggles to read defenses.

 

Allen's biggest problem is decision-making.  He's got what I call "Jay Cutler Disease.  There are times he's trying to do too much.  Usually when the play breaks down, and he's forced to make a throw outside the pocket.  This is fairly common among young QBs, so I'm not really worried yet.  He just needs to learn when to let a play die, and live to fight another day.

 

 

The fumble on the first drive was all on him.  I agree with you on the other three.

 

The biggest difference I see with Josh, in regards to Cutler or the other young QBs, is that Josh is owning his decisions and recognizing and saying he needs to improve there.  Are these shallow words because he knows that is what we need to hear, or is he serious about learning, growth and improving?  I think the latter.  Time will tell.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

Ideally, you would like to see a balance. However, there are times to be pass heavy or run heavy. Those turnovers could have happened under a completely balanced attack. IMHO, I have no problem with times where balance shifts, even drastically, if it is called for. IMHO, the game plan was fine.

 

That  ^ 

 

There was no balance in the first 3 QRTS 

 

The Bills opened with 7 straight pass plays and 4 Josh Allen scrambles.  

 

[billsfan1959]

13 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

ask any NFL coach what a pick 6 and safety in the 1st half with 0 points are.  A hot mess might be the kindest think you'd hear them call it.  

Any good NFL coach would have the common sense to evaluate the first half on the totality of play. Try it, things will look better.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Um, what's your point?  If they win, does that prove they're a good team?  Even if they win on the road by 1 point after 4 TO?

 

I mean, they don't have to prove it to me but it's quite well documented what happens the overwhelming majority of the time when a team has a -4 TO ratio: they lose.  So if they want to be a good football team, they need to clean up a bunch of stuff, can we agree on that?

 

I think my point was pretty obvious -BBFS is a copout. And, that some would help themselves to not take their feelings so seriously they need a mental protection mechanism. 

 

I never said they were a good team because they won. But, as a fan, I enjoy when the team wins.

 

As for the turnovers,  sure , along with alot of things that every team has at this point in the season we need to improve.

 

I will say this though. I'd rather have to fix the problems the Bills have (some flukey TOs etc.) . I mean if your a fan you've got to love the improvement Josh has made since opening day last year. We can agree on that can't we?

Edited September 9, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[yungmack]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

With all respect, Joe....Bad take here.

 

I watched and charted 80% of our plays last year (caveat I'm self-taught, so I'm not the best) and I have to say Daboll's play choices puzzled me at times.  I felt he got too cute and was like "no one will expect us to run this play on 3rd and 8 so that's what I'll call".  That sort of thing works when you've got an O that's a well-oiled machine.  With a rookie QB and scraps at OL not so much.  I'd think it's just me, but several guys here who really know their football, who actually coach and scout, have said similar at times.

I'd rather wait until I have the all-22 and can objectively go through each play, but I found Daboll's play calling very puzzling.  I can see why it makes abstract sense at a high level, but you can't stay at that level for practical good game calling with the actual personnel you've got on the field, both sides.

 

And I and several others with that view have no lasting bone about Mahomes or the Allen pick.  In fact I think the people who look at Mahomes and say "could have been ours" are cray-cray - Reid has his flaws as a post season coach but he's a marvelous play caller with a track record of developing QB to maximize their potential.  The strongest probability is that Mahomes would not look like that if he'd come here and been handed over to Dennison and whoever that was as our QB "coach".

 

 

 

 

Please note that it is more than likely Allen several times changed the play Daboll had called based on his reading of the Jets D. It sure looked that way to me.

[Rocket94]

I could not watch the game because of work. However, every time I checked my phone and came here for updates, fan reactions were not good!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

The defender was camped in front of the WR.  I don't think anyone believes  that was a "just missed" TD.    It was another "bad" throw by Allen.  This isn't Rodgers, Brees, etc. who you can say, "oh, random misplaced throw."   The 2 point conversion was a pinpoint throw by Darnold, not sure how that was luck.  That was a 5 year ago Big Ben type of play by Darnold.  

 

The Bills were a HOT MESS in the 1st half.  There is no way to sugarcoat it with "well, we almost didn't turn the ball over." 

 

Yeah, that almost-pick was a BAD decision by Allen.  But overall, I was impressed.  I saw a huge improvement from last year.  He was making the right reads, he was making good decisions (most of the time), he was making the "bunny" over the middle and shorter passes he didn't even attempt (or didn't make when he did) last year.

 

And that latter is why I have to disagree with you that the Bills were a "hot mess" in the first half.  They had a handful of bad luck/bad plays.  Good teams, championship teams, don't do that.  But "hot mess" teams don't make those good reads and good decisions or give the QB time to do that, and move the ball.

 

Why do you think our D was so tough?  Even the best D can lose focus and lose heart if they think their O is a hot mess.  The D was hearing/thinking "we're moving the ball on O, we're a few bad plays away from scoring.  If we stick with it and do our part, we can win".   Conclusion: the professionals on the field, our D, didn't think the O was a hot mess.