bigK14094 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 McCoy has been a pro here. I think he contributes big this year.......but, likely no new contract. Somebody else will pick him up next year. He may be motivated by career records.....or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Zay is going to have a really good year. Allen is developing a nice rapport with Beasley, but Zay is still Allen's favorite target. That could change, but outside of Beasley, Zay is still our best WR at getting open. Unfortunately for him, he's paid to catch the ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Unfortunately for him, he's paid to catch the ball. Zay dropped alot of balls his rookie season, true, but if you think the same is true of his second year, you may want to spend some time looking at the stats rather than just rely on the narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, bigK14094 said: McCoy has been a pro here. I think he contributes big this year.......but, likely no new contract. Somebody else will pick him up next year. He may be motivated by career records.....or not. Gore's the insurance policy, but i could see all 3 of them getting around 100 touches. Depends on your opponent, but look at NE. Michel was the "bell cow" with 209 carries, but White also had about 200 touches and burkhead followed with another 75 (only played 8 games due to injury). NE had a top 5 rushing offense without a single back going over 1000 yards rushing (white had almost 1200 total yards). I don't know where each of Buffalo's guys stacks up in that regard, but McCoy has the most experience being split out wide and is toughest for a LB to match up with 1x1 - so he would make the most sense in a white-lite role. Gore is your mainstay running back, and singletary probably has a little bit of both. He's not going to line up out wide, but you can do a lot with him and he's still tough to match up with. Considering how much i think we're going to split our back out wide, it makes sense to hang onto McCoy just because it can help the O go. 29 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said: They'd have to be worth next to nothing. Just keep em. They're infinitely more valuable to us on the team than whatever they'd go for in trade. Yeah - Everyone's cutting a lot of people in a couple of weeks. No one is actively searching to add people in a trade at this point unless its someone you take a flyer on at a major position of need. If AB doesn't play i guess i could see them calling about zay? but i doubt it. They likely wait to see who's free before they look at trading something. Same goes for running back. Edited August 19, 2019 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 33 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said: They'd have to be worth next to nothing. Just keep em. They're infinitely more valuable to us on the team than whatever they'd go for in trade. Really, an old and slow RB who made his bones on speed and elusiveness is valuable to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Can we just stop with this. Shady and Zay are worth way more here than they would fetch in a trade with another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davspo Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 8 hours ago, MJS said: Zay, maybe a 5th. I doubt we could trade McCoy. This at best. At the price tag McCoy has no trade value. Zay- someone may kick the tires on but a 5th may be a bit high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Really, an old and slow RB who made his bones on speed and elusiveness is valuable to us? right.. so what would any other team possibly want for him other than a 6th / 7th rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said: right.. so what would any other team possibly want for him other than a 6th / 7th rounder I'll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 30 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Zay dropped alot of balls his rookie season, true, but if you think the same is true of his second year, you may want to spend some time looking at the stats rather than just rely on the narrative. Why is there a "narrative"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I don't want or anticipate Shady going anywhere. I think he's going to have a huge bounce back year and be a great weapon for Josh... Zay I'm not as high on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: I’m guessing that if it’s a topic in a message board that it’s also one in real life. The fact that Shady is still on the team is a pretty good indication that none of the 31 other GMs have offered the Bills much of anything for him. What’s something worth?...What someone else is willing to pay for it. Well said. Shady is old for a scat back, has 6M on this year and was ineffective last year as well as hurt. He also hasn't shown the world anything this year, I wouldn't give anything for that. If he comes out on fire and my RB1 goes down on a contending team and Buffalo will let him go for a 4th or so, maybe I'll play ball before the trade deadline, but that's a whole lot of ifs. As for Zay, all you have to do is look at Juju to know where he should be in his career, he's not. He's going to be a journeyman WR at best, too bad, but thats the reality. There are FA guys who have done more out there, so absolutely no trade value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: I don't want or anticipate Shady going anywhere. I think he's going to have a huge bounce back year and be a great weapon for Josh... Zay I'm not as high on.... I hope you are right on Shady, there's nothing to say he can't have a good year, his explosiveness looks to be back based on the limited time we saw him vs Carolina. If he's not asked to take 300 carries, then he shouldn't wear down nearly as bad. I have a feeling he's going to start every game he's healthy for and we will see 2 back sets where he's running routes or staying in to pass pro while Gore and Singletary get asked to pound it a little more. Get him in space, use him for what he's great at. In an ideal world, I see him with 60 catches and 150ish carries in the regular season. IF the playoffs happen, he should still be pretty fresh and healthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, DCofNC said: I hope you are right on Shady, there's nothing to say he can't have a good year, his explosiveness looks to be back based on the limited time we saw him vs Carolina. If he's not asked to take 300 carries, then he shouldn't wear down nearly as bad. I have a feeling he's going to start every game he's healthy for and we will see 2 back sets where he's running routes or staying in to pass pro while Gore and Singletary get asked to pound it a little more. Get him in space, use him for what he's great at. In an ideal world, I see him with 60 catches and 150ish carries in the regular season. IF the playoffs happen, he should still be pretty fresh and healthy. Ya I like this idea. With quality depth at rb , they can really scale back his workload. Exactly, just get him in open space, sit back and enjoy watching him work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Trade the starting running back and WR2 for a 6th to draft someone to who may be PS. That is how you build a team? Wonder if they could get a third for EO? Hughes for a 5th sound good? Beane traded a 2nd round pick for a 4th before he ever played a single down for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chemical said: Beane traded a 2nd round pick for a 4th before he ever played a single down for the Bills. Sure a second rounder that he and the HC had nothing to do with drafting and that was third string behind Preston Brown and Tanner Vallejo. So so I guess if the guy is going to get cut then it’s worth a trade. so yeah if they are cutting Zay or shady then get a pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 If only someone broached this subject in February ??? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 10 hours ago, rayray808 said: Doyle TE Colts? Draft picks? Great idea, then we can have 6 TE's competing for 3 spots. I'd be fine for trading either of them, I'd even throw in other names of Yeldon, Lawson or Love, Croom, any of about 4 backup WR even Foster, and one of the lower level guys in the secondary. But I'd be looking for a backup swing tackle. That's a total of about 10 guys I listed competing for around 4 slots so would see if you can get anything rather than cutting the majority of them. Maybe you could get a low 6th or 7th rounder for them. Johnson a 7th rounder is looking damm good right now so better than nothing. And why would a team give up a guy you know is going to be cut, you get exclusive rights to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 You could get as much as a third or fourth for Jones from a desperate team, maybe the Giants, Shady, I’m not so sure about, up to a fifth, depending on the teams needs that might want him, just a wag on my part though. Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 9 hours ago, Kenosha2Buffalo said: Why would you want to find out ? For the Bills it could come down to something like this. Would you rather have Zay Jones or a 5th and Duke? It may not be a 5th and Duke, you can fill in various options...McKenzie and a 6th. I think the idea is there is good depth at WR-3-7 and Jones may be the only tradeable asset at WR because he was well thought of coming out and is on his rookie deal. For McCoy, there may also be good depth at RB but its all about salary cap space. Do you want him for this year only or save the 6 million. Basically you always try and make your team better which involves trading off a shiny object today for future considerations (picks and cap space.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, DCofNC said: Well said. Shady is old for a scat back, has 6M on this year and was ineffective last year as well as hurt. He also hasn't shown the world anything this year, I wouldn't give anything for that. If he comes out on fire and my RB1 goes down on a contending team and Buffalo will let him go for a 4th or so, maybe I'll play ball before the trade deadline, but that's a whole lot of ifs. As for Zay, all you have to do is look at Juju to know where he should be in his career, he's not. He's going to be a journeyman WR at best, too bad, but thats the reality. There are FA guys who have done more out there, so absolutely no trade value. We're trying to make the playoffs. I don't want 2020 5th round picks if it makes my team even slightly worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpsuit Jim Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I thought this board was all about converting every other player to Tight End... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGA-Man Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Some popcorn maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, mattynh said: For the Bills it could come down to something like this. Would you rather have Zay Jones or a 5th and Duke? It may not be a 5th and Duke, you can fill in various options...McKenzie and a 6th. I think the idea is there is good depth at WR-3-7 and Jones may be the only tradeable asset at WR because he was well thought of coming out and is on his rookie deal. For McCoy, there may also be good depth at RB but its all about salary cap space. Do you want him for this year only or save the 6 million. Basically you always try and make your team better which involves trading off a shiny object today for future considerations (picks and cap space.) Regarding Zay vs. Duke As much as i like the idea of a guy like Duke - he's been out of the NFL for disciplinary reasons and from what I have heard in practice has looked largely invisible. Can he consistently gain separation from NFL level corners in coverage...? If the answer is no, he doesn't have a spot on a roster. One TD in a preseason game doesn't change that imo. The NFL leader in red zone targets last year was Davante Adams with 31. He had 12 RZ TDs and caught 52% of those targets. He had 169 total targets in 2018. Inside the 10 - the leader was Hopkins with 15 targets - he caught 7. He's basically the best receiver in the NFL. The NFL leader in team target% inside the 20 was Adams... with 41.9%. 2nd was Zay Jones with 39.5%. I just think that the red zone jump ball thing isn't as big a thing as people think it is. And the guys at the top of the list are all-pro type do-all receivers and TE's like Hopkins, Thomas, Adams, JuJu, Ertz and Kelce. No one is carrying a jump ball specialist to come out for one play. Guys like McCaffrey Kamara Edelman Landry and White are used in the red zone nearly as often. Edited August 19, 2019 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, dneveu said: Regarding Zay vs. Duke As much as i like the idea of a guy like Duke - he's been out of the NFL for disciplinary reasons and from what I have heard in practice has looked largely invisible. Can he consistently gain separation from NFL level corners in coverage...? If the answer is no, he doesn't have a spot on a roster. One TD in a preseason game doesn't change that imo. The NFL leader in red zone targets last year was Davante Adams with 31. He had 12 RZ TDs and caught 52% of those targets. He had 169 total targets in 2018. Inside the 10 - the leader was Hopkins with 15 targets - he caught 7. He's basically the best receiver in the NFL. The NFL leader in team target% inside the 20 was Adams... with 41.9%. 2nd was Zay Jones with 39.5%. I just think that the red zone jump ball thing isn't as big a thing as people think it is. And the guys at the top of the list are all-pro type do-all receivers and TE's like Hopkins, Thomas, Adams, JuJu, Ertz and Kelce. No one is carrying a jump ball specialist to come out for one play. Guys like McCaffrey Kamara Edelman Landry and White are used in the red zone nearly as often. I was just answering the question someone asked. If There is a big difference between the WR you keep and Zay then you may decide to keep Zay vs a 5th and Duke, for instance (it could be Foster instead of Duke, that was just an example). I am just saying, that is the way the team will look at it. If you have a bunch of guys who are about equal you may find yourself in that situation where it may make sense to grab a draft pick. Personally I think Duke gets waived and the Bills don't pursue him for the PS. He is absolutely buried on the depth chart and seems to get no work with the ones, I think that tells you what the team is thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, dneveu said: We're trying to make the playoffs. I don't want 2020 5th round picks if it makes my team even slightly worse. I agree, mostly. Where I would not trade Shady because he's a difference maker when he's healthy and right now he is, I would dump Jones because I feel you are cutting somebody else who is just as good to make room for him and getting nothing back. I don't honestly think anybody would trade for him anyway, so its probably a non-issue. I'd take a pick if I could get it. There are guys on this roster right now that could pull 6th and 7th round choices and we are going to cut them, so get them and hope to package a handful of picks to move up for a more significant one. If you could take all your cuts and eventually move up to a 4th or 5th round pick, that's super valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, dneveu said: Regarding Zay vs. Duke As much as i like the idea of a guy like Duke - he's been out of the NFL for disciplinary reasons and from what I have heard in practice has looked largely invisible. Can he consistently gain separation from NFL level corners in coverage...? If the answer is no, he doesn't have a spot on a roster. One TD in a preseason game doesn't change that imo. The NFL leader in red zone targets last year was Davante Adams with 31. He had 12 RZ TDs and caught 52% of those targets. He had 169 total targets in 2018. Inside the 10 - the leader was Hopkins with 15 targets - he caught 7. He's basically the best receiver in the NFL. The NFL leader in team target% inside the 20 was Adams... with 41.9%. 2nd was Zay Jones with 39.5%. I just think that the red zone jump ball thing isn't as big a thing as people think it is. And the guys at the top of the list are all-pro type do-all receivers and TE's like Hopkins, Thomas, Adams, JuJu, Ertz and Kelce. No one is carrying a jump ball specialist to come out for one play. Guys like McCaffrey Kamara Edelman Landry and White are used in the red zone nearly as often. It's all about being able to either A) create a window or B) Not needing a window. Thats why the real stars play inside the 20. Anybody with NFL talent can shake loose or find room when theres 80 yards to work with and defenders are spread out, close it down and you either have to have physical size and strength to beat your man or the ability to create space. That's why your best athletes and your biggest athletes matter. Looks at the legends, Moss, Carter, Rice, Gronk etc.. either make space or you flat out can't match their size. Zay only got those targets because he was defacto number 1 last year and everyone else was a complete joke. Duke has size, McKenzie has wiggle, Brown has insane speed, Beasley is Beasley and now you hipe you have 3 different TEs that can force a mismatch. Zay won't be seeing a repeat of thise numbers this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 19 minutes ago, mattynh said: I was just answering the question someone asked. If There is a big difference between the WR you keep and Zay then you may decide to keep Zay vs a 5th and Duke, for instance (it could be Foster instead of Duke, that was just an example). I am just saying, that is the way the team will look at it. If you have a bunch of guys who are about equal you may find yourself in that situation where it may make sense to grab a draft pick. Personally I think Duke gets waived and the Bills don't pursue him for the PS. He is absolutely buried on the depth chart and seems to get no work with the ones, I think that tells you what the team is thinking. I honestly only quoted you because it was the first one i saw where they entertained trading zay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBillsFan Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 5 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Zay is going to have a really good year. Allen is developing a nice rapport with Beasley, but Zay is still Allen's favorite target. That could change, but outside of Beasley, Zay is still our best WR at getting open. Wish he was able to catch it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Just now, DieHardBillsFan said: Wish he was able to catch it... This is one of those bad narratives that was created his rookie year, disproven his second year, and for whatever reason still persists. Statistically he dropped an average number of balls last year. Brown had a higher drop percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, DieHardBillsFan said: Wish he was able to catch it... Yep - the drops have followed this guy since year 1 for whatever reason. Needs to just get over it for him to take the next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, dneveu said: Yep - the drops have followed this guy since year 1 for whatever reason. Needs to just get over it for him to take the next step. Drops did not follow him into year 2. He had an average number of drops last year (5). His drop percentage was lower than Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Nothing that would actually be worth trading them for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 4 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said: They'd have to be worth next to nothing. Just keep em. They're infinitely more valuable to us on the team than whatever they'd go for in trade. Probably this. Who’s WR corps is Zay making better at this point? (Okay, maybe ours.) I’m pretty sure that teams would rather use that roster spot on a player who might reasonably develop rather than a third year player who hasn’t yet. Shady might have some trade value from the right team in the right situation, but that probably won’t be until the season is under way and some contending team loses its feature back and wants a veteran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Drops did not follow him into year 2. He had an average number of drops last year (5). His drop percentage was lower than Browns. The Zay "hate" is getting out of control on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Any time you can trade your starting RB ad WR 3 weeks before the season for what would be at best a mid/late round pick you just have to do it. #process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Bray Wyatt said: The Zay "hate" is getting out of control on here. Its just a lack of critical thinking. Its easier to rely on the narrative than think for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 6 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said: Inflated or deflated? Asking for a friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 NFL WR Corps If you scroll down a bit you can see a chart with all of the expected starting NFL WR corps. It’s close to current. There are some very, very bad groups out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Its just a lack of critical thinking. Its easier to rely on the narrative than think for yourself. I've watched him play football. I'm not impressed. If not for his draft status I think he might be gone already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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