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Who could we realistically trade Zay or Shady for?

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2 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Well said.  Shady is old for a scat back, has 6M on this year and was ineffective last year as well as hurt.  He also hasn't shown the world anything this year, I wouldn't give anything for that.  If he comes out on fire and my RB1 goes down on a contending team and Buffalo will let him go for a 4th or so, maybe I'll play ball before the trade deadline, but that's  a whole lot of ifs.  As for Zay, all you have to do is look at Juju to know where he should be in his career, he's not.  He's going to be a journeyman WR at best, too bad, but thats the reality.  There are FA guys who have done more out there, so absolutely no trade value.

 

We're trying to make the playoffs.  I don't want 2020 5th round picks if it makes my team even slightly worse.

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17 minutes ago, mattynh said:

For the Bills it could come down to something like this. Would you rather have Zay Jones or a 5th and Duke?  It may not be a 5th and Duke, you can fill in various options...McKenzie and a 6th.   I think the idea is there is good depth at WR-3-7 and Jones may be the only tradeable asset at WR because he was well thought of coming out and is on his rookie deal.

 

For McCoy, there may also be good depth at RB but its all about salary cap space.   Do you want him for this year only or save the 6 million.

 

Basically you always try and make your team better which involves trading off a shiny object today for future considerations (picks and cap space.)

 

Regarding Zay vs. Duke

 

As much as i like the idea of a guy like Duke - he's been out of the NFL for disciplinary reasons and from what I have heard in practice has looked largely invisible.  Can he consistently gain separation from NFL level corners in coverage...?  If the answer is no, he doesn't have a spot on a roster.  One TD in a preseason game doesn't change that imo.

 

The NFL leader in red zone targets last year was Davante Adams with 31.  He had 12 RZ TDs and caught 52% of those targets.  He had 169 total targets in 2018.  Inside the 10 - the leader was Hopkins with 15 targets - he caught 7.  He's basically the best receiver in the NFL.    

 

The NFL leader in team target% inside the 20 was Adams... with 41.9%.  2nd was Zay Jones with 39.5%.  

 

I just think that the red zone jump ball thing isn't as big a thing as people think it is.  And the guys at the top of the list are all-pro type do-all receivers and TE's like Hopkins, Thomas, Adams, JuJu, Ertz and Kelce.  No one is carrying a jump ball specialist to come out for one play.  Guys like McCaffrey Kamara Edelman Landry and White are used in the red zone nearly as often.  

Edited by dneveu

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8 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Regarding Zay vs. Duke

 

As much as i like the idea of a guy like Duke - he's been out of the NFL for disciplinary reasons and from what I have heard in practice has looked largely invisible.  Can he consistently gain separation from NFL level corners in coverage...?  If the answer is no, he doesn't have a spot on a roster.  One TD in a preseason game doesn't change that imo.

 

The NFL leader in red zone targets last year was Davante Adams with 31.  He had 12 RZ TDs and caught 52% of those targets.  He had 169 total targets in 2018.  Inside the 10 - the leader was Hopkins with 15 targets - he caught 7.  He's basically the best receiver in the NFL.    

 

The NFL leader in team target% inside the 20 was Adams... with 41.9%.  2nd was Zay Jones with 39.5%.  

 

I just think that the red zone jump ball thing isn't as big a thing as people think it is.  And the guys at the top of the list are all-pro type do-all receivers and TE's like Hopkins, Thomas, Adams, JuJu, Ertz and Kelce.  No one is carrying a jump ball specialist to come out for one play.  Guys like McCaffrey Kamara Edelman Landry and White are used in the red zone nearly as often.  

 

I was just answering the question someone asked.  If There is a big difference between the WR you keep and Zay then you may decide to keep Zay vs a 5th and Duke, for instance (it could be Foster instead of Duke, that was just an example).  I am just saying, that is the way the team will look at it.  If you have a bunch of guys who are about equal you may find yourself in that situation where it may make sense to grab a draft pick.

 

Personally I think Duke gets waived and the Bills don't pursue him for the PS.  He is absolutely buried on the depth chart and seems to get no work with the ones, I think that tells you what the team is thinking.

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12 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

We're trying to make the playoffs.  I don't want 2020 5th round picks if it makes my team even slightly worse.

I agree, mostly.  Where I would not trade Shady because he's a difference maker when he's healthy and right now he is, I would dump Jones because I feel you are cutting somebody else who is just as good to make room for him and getting nothing back.  I don't honestly think anybody would trade for him anyway, so its probably a non-issue.  I'd take a pick if I could get it.  There are guys on this roster right now that could pull 6th and 7th round choices and we are going to cut them, so get them and hope to package a handful of picks to move up for a more significant one.   If you could take all your cuts and eventually move up to a 4th or 5th round pick, that's super valuable.

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16 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Regarding Zay vs. Duke

 

As much as i like the idea of a guy like Duke - he's been out of the NFL for disciplinary reasons and from what I have heard in practice has looked largely invisible.  Can he consistently gain separation from NFL level corners in coverage...?  If the answer is no, he doesn't have a spot on a roster.  One TD in a preseason game doesn't change that imo.

 

The NFL leader in red zone targets last year was Davante Adams with 31.  He had 12 RZ TDs and caught 52% of those targets.  He had 169 total targets in 2018.  Inside the 10 - the leader was Hopkins with 15 targets - he caught 7.  He's basically the best receiver in the NFL.    

 

The NFL leader in team target% inside the 20 was Adams... with 41.9%.  2nd was Zay Jones with 39.5%.  

 

I just think that the red zone jump ball thing isn't as big a thing as people think it is.  And the guys at the top of the list are all-pro type do-all receivers and TE's like Hopkins, Thomas, Adams, JuJu, Ertz and Kelce.  No one is carrying a jump ball specialist to come out for one play.  Guys like McCaffrey Kamara Edelman Landry and White are used in the red zone nearly as often.  

It's all about being able to either A) create a window or B) Not needing a window.   Thats why the real stars play inside the 20.  Anybody with NFL talent can shake loose or find room when theres 80 yards to work with and defenders are spread out, close it down and you either have to have physical size and strength to beat your man or the ability to create space.  That's why your best athletes and your biggest athletes matter.  Looks at the legends, Moss, Carter, Rice, Gronk etc.. either make space or you flat out can't match their size.   Zay only got those targets because he was defacto number 1 last year and everyone else was a complete joke.  Duke has size, McKenzie has wiggle, Brown has insane speed, Beasley is Beasley and now you hipe you have 3 different TEs that can force a mismatch.  Zay won't be seeing a repeat of thise numbers this year.

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19 minutes ago, mattynh said:

 

I was just answering the question someone asked.  If There is a big difference between the WR you keep and Zay then you may decide to keep Zay vs a 5th and Duke, for instance (it could be Foster instead of Duke, that was just an example).  I am just saying, that is the way the team will look at it.  If you have a bunch of guys who are about equal you may find yourself in that situation where it may make sense to grab a draft pick.

 

Personally I think Duke gets waived and the Bills don't pursue him for the PS.  He is absolutely buried on the depth chart and seems to get no work with the ones, I think that tells you what the team is thinking.


I honestly only quoted you because it was the first one i saw where they entertained trading zay.  

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5 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Zay is going to have a really good year.  Allen is developing a nice rapport with Beasley, but Zay is still Allen's favorite target.  That could change, but outside of Beasley, Zay is still our best WR at getting open. 

Wish he was able to catch it...

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Just now, DieHardBillsFan said:

Wish he was able to catch it...

 

This is one of those bad narratives that was created his rookie year, disproven his second year, and for whatever reason still persists. 

 

Statistically he dropped an average number of balls last year. Brown had a higher drop percentage.  

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1 minute ago, DieHardBillsFan said:

Wish he was able to catch it...

 

Yep - the drops have followed this guy since year 1 for whatever reason.  Needs to just get over it for him to take the next step.  

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3 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Yep - the drops have followed this guy since year 1 for whatever reason.  Needs to just get over it for him to take the next step.  

 

Drops did not follow him into year 2. He had an average number of drops last year (5). His drop percentage was lower than Browns. 

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4 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

They'd have to be worth next to nothing. Just keep em. They're infinitely more valuable to us on the team than whatever they'd go for in trade.

 

Probably this.  Who’s WR corps is Zay making better at this point?  (Okay, maybe ours.)  I’m pretty sure that teams would rather use that roster spot on a player who might reasonably develop rather than a third year player who hasn’t yet.  Shady might have some trade value from the right team in the right situation, but that probably won’t be until the season is under way and some contending team loses its feature back and wants a veteran.

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3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Drops did not follow him into year 2. He had an average number of drops last year (5). His drop percentage was lower than Browns. 

 

The Zay "hate" is getting out of control on here. 

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Any time you can trade your starting RB ad WR 3 weeks before the season for what would be at best a mid/late round pick you just have to do it. #process

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1 minute ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

The Zay "hate" is getting out of control on here. 

 

Its just a lack of critical thinking. Its easier to rely on the narrative than think for yourself. 

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NFL WR Corps

 

If you scroll down a bit you can see a chart with all of the expected starting NFL WR corps.  It’s close to current.  There are some very, very bad groups out there.

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5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Its just a lack of critical thinking. Its easier to rely on the narrative than think for yourself. 

I've watched him play football. I'm not impressed. If not for his draft status I think he might be gone already.

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