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rayray808

Who could we realistically trade Zay or Shady for?

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I haven't read through the entire thread, but I would think you might be able to get a 3rd from the right team for Zay Jones. I wouldn't think that would be a good move, though; to expect that any third rounder would turn out better than Jones is a pretty big stretch.

 

I would think McCoy's trade value is essentially none. The Bills will probably quietly let him walk at the end of the year.

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13 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

Had a good fantasy day on this day.  Dropped an important pass at the end. 

 

didn't you get the memo?  

 

Zay is only good against Miami.

12 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

I honestly don’t know, but I’m not talking about stats generally; I’m citing one specific stat—drops. He does not drop the ball the way it is represented on this board.

Here is the problem.  

 

Define a drop in the NFL.    

Was it really a catchable ball or a ball that bounced off his fingers? 

 

Don't get me wrong, Zay has a lot to prove this season if he wants to stay in Buffalo.   

 

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Posted (edited)

 

Hey stat people 

Pass Dropped

#1 with 8 J. EdelmanM. EvansG. TateT. Yeldon  all tied at 8. 

 

#5 with 6 J. Brown Buf from BAL

 

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&rank=232&type=receiving

 

from a year ago v

 

 

 

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=nfl&rank=232&type=receiving

 

 

TEAM TOTAL dropped passes 

18 th  Buffalo 

Edited by ShadyBillsFan

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I have to laugh seeing Benjamin on this list. Heck it seems like he dropped close to 100% of his targets while  he was wearing a Bills uniform!

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22 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I have to laugh seeing Benjamin on this list. Heck it seems like he dropped close to 100% of his targets while  he was wearing a Bills uniform!


I cry seeing Benjamin on this list.  

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17 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Zay reminds me of Woods.

 

Yikes.     One is tough and has sure hands.  

 

The other jumps through glass 

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1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

didn't you get the memo?  

 

Zay is only good against Miami.

Here is the problem.  

 

Define a drop in the NFL.    

Was it really a catchable ball or a ball that bounced off his fingers? 

 

Don't get me wrong, Zay has a lot to prove this season if he wants to stay in Buffalo.   

 

 

This is it. Zay has to deliver. His level of play thus far does not warrant a second contract. He is fine for a second year player, but he needs to start to elevate his game. He has started by cleaning up many of the drops, but he needs to do more. 

27 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Yikes.     One is tough and has sure hands.  

 

The other jumps through glass 

 

Zay had one more drop than Woods last year. Granted, Woods had more targets, but their drop percentage is only 2% difference.  

 

Again, to my point, perception v. reality. 

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14 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

I hope you are right.  But I think it is more likely we lose a game or two because Shady is a weak starter before McD accepts the truth. He is this years peterman. 

 

PP, you may be right about him being this year's Peterman, with the exception of the facts that he is a former NFL leading rushing with likely hall of fame pace rushing yardage, other than for last year.

 

Besides that he is essentially a twin with a player who has accomplished almost nothing in his career beyond a record setting number of first half interceptions in his first start.

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25 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

 

Zay had one more drop than Woods last year. Granted, Woods had more targets, but their drop percentage is only 2% difference.  

 

Again, to my point, perception v. reality. 

 

Woods ranked top 10 FF WR, Zay #77 

 

Reality is Zay has a lot of work to do to be Robert Woods 

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3 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Woods ranked top 10 FF WR, Zay #77 

 

Reality is Zay has a lot of work to do to be Robert Woods 

 

That is not at all responsive to what I am saying. Here is an analogy: i am having a debate about colors, and your response is "but numbers."  Sure, you are right, but doesn't have a thing to do about the colors debate. 

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Zay is a fairly cheap player.  Going into his third, in an offense that he certainly wont be focal point all bolds well for him.  I think at seasons end his numbers will be pretty good.  I expect a few really good games with multiple Tds and in totality may even end the season with the best numbers in terms of yards and Tds.

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I think a guy who will be a hot commodity is Matt Barkley. Guy looked killer last year, killer this year, some team may offer decent scratch for him. If Allen establishes himself this year and we feel secure, could get a 4th maaaaaaaybe maybe a 3rd for Barkley.

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31 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That is not at all responsive to what I am saying. Here is an analogy: i am having a debate about colors, and your response is "but numbers."  Sure, you are right, but doesn't have a thing to do about the colors debate. 

 

Zay under 70 yards receiving 13 times last season.      He’s not good.        It’s time to face the music and stop the charade 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

Put up or be gone time for stonehands.

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5 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Zay under 70 yards receiving 13 times last season.      He’s not good.        It’s time to face the music and stop the charade 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

Put up or be gone time for stonehands.

 

Ok, well, I guess we can have that argument. You know who else was held to under 70 yards per game his first three seasons (maybe even 4, I'm not sure)? Robert Woods. 

 

This "stonehands" thing. I feel like I am crazy town. How can people be that obtuse? 

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5 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

PP, you may be right about him being this year's Peterman, with the exception of the facts that he is a former NFL leading rushing with likely hall of fame pace rushing yardage, other than for last year.

 

Besides that he is essentially a twin with a player who has accomplished almost nothing in his career beyond a record setting number of first half interceptions in his first start.

 I will explain as much how this analogy work. It has nothing to do with the past. 

 

In 2018 Nate Peterman started at a job, that other players were better at. 
In 2019 Lesean McCoy is likely to start at a job that others are better at now not in 2012, or 2013, or even 2014.   

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

 I will explain as much how this analogy work. It has nothing to do with the past. 

 

In 2018 Nate Peterman started at a job, that other players were better at. 
In 2019 Lesean McCoy is likely to start at a job that others are better at now not in 2012, or 2013, or even 2014.   

 

 

 

 

 

Based upon what?

 

That Singletary or Gore is thoroughly and decisively better than Shady due to a handful of preseason carries?

 

Has there been any outright rhetoric that Shady is being outplayed in practice, or that there is any dissatisfaction by the coaches?

 

I’ll go to my original position...this is a great back that people have decided to kick to the curb on limited, flawed and weighted evidence due to the consequences of last year.

 

I do give you great credit for the ease with which you put him, not in the peterman category as a player then, but as this almost tragic mistake if he plays as a starter for this team for any length of time. 

 

I mean no insults, PP, honestly.  I am not like that around here.  I just strongly disagree.

 

if you are correct and It does happen as you say...yes, it will be trouble for the season, my friend.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

This is it. Zay has to deliver. His level of play thus far does not warrant a second contract. He is fine for a second year player, but he needs to start to elevate his game. He has started by cleaning up many of the drops, but he needs to do more. 

 

Zay had one more drop than Woods last year. Granted, Woods had more targets, but their drop percentage is only 2% difference.  

 

Again, to my point, perception v. reality. 

 

Real question:  Why are you ignoring the 8 drops on film in 12 games with Josh Allen and still reading the stat sheet inaccuracy of "two" dropped passes?  

 

I don't have an issue if you're still optimistic on Zay, that's all good.  But I keep seeing people trying to claim he dropped just 2 passes where he clearly dropped more and its on tape, not some inaccurate stat sheet.  The Josh Allen video shows he dropped a lot more than 2 in just the 12 games with Josh, it doesn't even account for the 4 games he played with DA and NP.

Edited by Alphadawg7
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5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Real question:  Why are you ignoring the 8 drops on film in 12 games with Josh Allen and still reading the stat sheet inaccuracy of "two" dropped passes?  

 

I don't have an issue if you're still optimistic on Zay, that's all good.  But I keep seeing people trying to claim he dropped just 2 passes where he clearly dropped more and its on tape, not some inaccurate stat sheet.  The Josh Allen video shows he dropped a lot more than 2 in just the 12 games with Josh, it doesn't even account for the 4 games he played with DA and NP.

 

I think the official number is 6.  I didn't see anyone say 2, but I take your word for it. 

 

As far as the video, I have watched it, and some of those "drops" should not be drops.  Like the play where he tried to catch the ball on his back.  It is sort of reminiscent of the of the Clay Miami "drop." Threads upon threads dedicated to whether it was a bad throw or a drop.  Its subjective. 

 

I like relying on the stat keepers here.  Maybe the stat keepers have a different vision of what a drop is than the fans. However, its the same standard applied to every player in the league. It provides a reliable metric to see where Zay stacks up against the other WRs in the league. 

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The O-Line was very bad last year but Shady did loose a step. He still can make people miss but that elite start and stop burst is gone. Zay Jones is just a below average WR that drops balls and runs bad routs. I doubt we could get even a 7th rd pick for him.

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Anyone see McDermotts presser this morning?  Was pretty vanilla about Zay when asked questions.  Didn't throw him under the bus, but he also didn't really give him a vote of confidence either.  When asked about his reduced role, he didn't dispute it and said Zay is accepting it.  

 

For a guy some people are certain is going to start and be a big part of the offense, McD seemed less committed and even said roles are still being determined, but also didn't dispute the reduced role either.  He said some positive things, but it felt pretty cookie cutter and certainly could have showed more commitment to him. 

 

Could be nothing, but just found it interesting.  

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