Downtown stadiums!

[Chicharito]

First off I have now been to 5 nfl stadiums with “downtown” settings. Cleveland, Denver, Pittsburgh, Charlotte, and now Jacksonville. I went to The Rolling Stones concert in Jacksonville last night. If the nfl wants to pressure the bills to build a new stadium Jacksonville has to build a new one. 

 

 That stadium is small. I can’t even believe The playing surface is big enough for an nfl game. I literally felt like I was on top of the person next to me. Kind of like being at Fenway Park. 

 

With th the obvious traffic problem that will persist if and when a new stadium is built downtown will be atrocious. All DT stadiums have these problems so please Mr. and MRS. Pegula don’t do it.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Chicharito said:

First off I have now been to 5 nfl stadiums with “downtown” settings. Cleveland, Denver, Pittsburgh, Charlotte, and now Jacksonville. I went to The Rolling Stones concert in Jacksonville last night. If the nfl wants to pressure the bills to build a new stadium Jacksonville has to build a new one. 

 

 That stadium is small. I can’t even believe The playing surface is big enough for an nfl game. I literally felt like I was on top of the person next to me. Kind of like being at Fenway Park. 

 

With th the obvious traffic problem that will persist if and when a new stadium is built downtown will be atrocious. All DT stadiums have these problems so please Mr. and MRS. Pegula don’t do it.

 

Traffic is unavoidable when you have 70K people in one place, be it Orchard Park or Downtown Buffalo. 

[BuffAlone]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Traffic is unavoidable when you have 70K people in one place, be it Orchard Park or Downtown Buffalo. 

Idk...at least leaving OP, there's a back door route thru Akron that can still put you on I-90 in 30 minutes. Most people just don't know it. Sure as hell beats waiting in line, even if you go 20 miles out of your way you can still be ahead of the curve

[Augie]

22 minutes ago, Chicharito said:

First off I have now been to 5 nfl stadiums with “downtown” settings. Cleveland, Denver, Pittsburgh, Charlotte, and now Jacksonville. I went to The Rolling Stones concert in Jacksonville last night. If the nfl wants to pressure the bills to build a new stadium Jacksonville has to build a new one. 

 

 That stadium is small. I can’t even believe The playing surface is big enough for an nfl game. I literally felt like I was on top of the person next to me. Kind of like being at Fenway Park. 

 

With th the obvious traffic problem that will persist if and when a new stadium is built downtown will be atrocious. All DT stadiums have these problems so please Mr. and MRS. Pegula don’t do it.

 

I heard it was a great show. Hope you enjoyed, despite the stadium. The Stones probably fill it better than Jags fans. 

 

I’ve been to a few games there and I can’t say I love it. Worse than your concert experience was sitting there during an early season game. You could have cooked a turkey in my seat! At one point we were the only two people from our row still outside. (Hey! I paid $250 each and I wanted to sit in my seat!) We eventually gave up and went into the concession area with AC to watch on a tiny monitor. Florida teams need domes more than northern teams....THAT was ridiculous! (To be fair, Marcus Stroud had just joined the BIlls from Jags, and he said it was the hottest game HE ever played in.) 

 

However, I never had a real problem with the traffic in Jax. Just getting out of some lots in OP was worse at times. 

 

As for the bold, I have not found that to be the case at all. You complained about the quality of the stadium, then blamed a downtown location. I don’t care what the Bills do as long as they remain in WNY, so this is not a proponent of a DT stadium take. I’m neutral. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Augie

[123719bwiqrb]

I'm a north towner, so once I can sneak over to route 5 and head north, I'm golden!

 

And I agree, just do a new stadium or revamp the old one with a covered seating area.  No to downtown.

[BuffalothruMyVeins]

What are the chances they build a site that both the Bills and Sabres share? Maybe not literally the same facility, but 2 stadiums on the same site? I have heard the Sabres could use a new arena too, so maybe get them both done at once?

[Beast]

6 minutes ago, BuffalothruMyVeins said:

What are the chances they build a site that both the Bills and Sabres share? Maybe not literally the same facility, but 2 stadiums on the same site? I have heard the Sabres could use a new arena too, so maybe get them both done at once?

 

The Pegula’s just developed the land around the Sabres arena. Unless the Bills move next door to that there is no chance.

[Bob in STL]

Jax should not have a franchise.  Love the black tarp trash bags that cover their end zone seats.  Small stadium and only half filled.  

 

The Jags franchise should have been awarded to St Louis who had a great proposal, a dome stadium, loyal fans, and local ownership.  Instead St Louis ended up paying a Kings Ransom for the Rams, forced to buy PSLs,  take external ownership, and are eventually held hostage for another new stadium or else a move to LA. 

 

So no team in St Louis, the Rams owners move the team to LA and then steal the Chargers from  San Diego.  Meanwhile po-dunk Jacksonville has a team and still can’t draw flies.  

 

Be thankful for the Pegulas.  

[billsredneck1]

They just spent 25 mil on the sport science facility which is not equaled anywhere in the league. the surroundings in op are great. i hope they just upgrade. downtown would suck.

Edited July 20, 2019 by billsredneck1

[Buffalo716]

52 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Traffic is unavoidable when you have 70K people in one place, be it Orchard Park or Downtown Buffalo. 

That's true but Buffalo has a terrible grid pattern for streets and exit ways

 

It was designed around beautiful park systems in a radical European style not automobile traffic and it's never been updated

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That's true but Buffalo has a terrible grid pattern for streets and exit ways

 

It was designed around beautiful park systems in a radical European style not automobile traffic and it's never been updated

 

 

 

I want to see a legit this study before I accept that it won't work in Buffalo. I know Polancarz made a reference to it not working but nothing about why.

[Boatdrinks]

17 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

They just spent 25 mil on the sport science facility which is not equaled anywhere in the league. the surroundings in op are great. i hope they just upgrade. downtown would suck.

What meaningful upgrades are possible in that stadium with its sunken design ?  Something that would give actual pricing power ? Fewer seats can be accomplished for certain, but climate control ? Much wider concourses with better concessions and larger restrooms ? I’m not an expert, but I’ve read about these issues when previous renovations were done. A reno won’t be cheap, and the improvements may not go far enough. Any revenue increases will need to come from ticket pricing structure and concessions because a stadium won’t change the corporate situation in Buffalo. 

19 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That's true but Buffalo has a terrible grid pattern for streets and exit ways

 

It was designed around beautiful park systems in a radical European style not automobile traffic and it's never been updated

 

 

Buffalo could improve its traffic flow by fixing the ridiculously poor traffic light timing, for starters. It’s haphazard, nonsensical and horrific. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Chicharito said:

First off I have now been to 5 nfl stadiums with “downtown” settings. Cleveland, Denver, Pittsburgh, Charlotte, and now Jacksonville. I went to The Rolling Stones concert in Jacksonville last night. If the nfl wants to pressure the bills to build a new stadium Jacksonville has to build a new one. 

 

 That stadium is small. I can’t even believe The playing surface is big enough for an nfl game. I literally felt like I was on top of the person next to me. Kind of like being at Fenway Park. 

 

With th the obvious traffic problem that will persist if and when a new stadium is built downtown will be atrocious. All DT stadiums have these problems so please Mr. and MRS. Pegula don’t do it.

The Jaguars are still seven spots ahead of the Bills in revenue, even with their stadium. They are also playing a game in London every year, so their situation is somewhat tenuous. Hope you enjoyed the concert. I was thinking of going to that one, but the prices spiked dramatically the last couple weeks. I caught them a few weeks ago in Canada though, ( great show ) and am going to see them in Philly on Tuesday. They sound great, but who knows when it ends ? This could be the last time....

[ProcessTruster]

43 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

They just spent 25 mil on the sport science facility which is not equaled anywhere in the league. the surroundings in op are great. i hope they just upgrade. downtown would suck.

yeah, just update the Ralph.  Can't be that hard. 

[Ol Dirty B]

1 hour ago, BuffAlone said:

Idk...at least leaving OP, there's a back door route thru Akron that can still put you on I-90 in 30 minutes. Most people just don't know it. Sure as hell beats waiting in line, even if you go 20 miles out of your way you can still be ahead of the curve

 

Yep... I didnt know about this route but a cop at a stop directed me, take this way. What you're doing is going to take forever. My hat off to him.

 

I did however sit in stop and go traffic for an hour on I90, so the point still stands. Traffic is always going to be an issue leaving a venue with 70 or 50 thousand people there. No way around it.

48 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

They just spent 25 mil on the sport science facility which is not equaled anywhere in the league. the surroundings in op are great. i hope they just upgrade. downtown would suck.

 

The stadium has almost nothing to do with the sports science facility. I'm sure it could have some use on game days, but nothing that couldn't be replicated in a new stadium. You can practice and use that facility during the week and play downtown. They have little do with each other.

[billsredneck1]

56 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

What meaningful upgrades are possible in that stadium with its sunken design ?  Something that would give actual pricing power ? Fewer seats can be accomplished for certain, but climate control ? Much wider concourses with better concessions and larger restrooms ? I’m not an expert, but I’ve read about these issues when previous renovations were done. A reno won’t be cheap, and the improvements may not go far enough. Any revenue increases will need to come from ticket pricing structure and concessions because a stadium won’t change the corporate situation in Buffalo. 

Buffalo could improve its traffic flow by fixing the ridiculously poor traffic light timing, for starters. It’s haphazard, nonsensical and horrific. 

true points ,but the cost of a new stadium will come from taxpayers, not the pegs. i don't know if a retractable roof is feasible but, if considerably less than a new stadium, they could promote big stuff year round. in any case downtown would still suck.

37 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Yep... I didnt know about this route but a cop at a stop directed me, take this way. What you're doing is going to take forever. My hat off to him.

 

I did however sit in stop and go traffic for an hour on I90, so the point still stands. Traffic is always going to be an issue leaving a venue with 70 or 50 thousand people there. No way around it.

 

The stadium has almost nothing to do with the sports science facility. I'm sure it could have some use on game days, but nothing that couldn't be replicated in a new stadium. You can practice and use that facility during the week and play downtown. They have little do with each other.

well i'm sticking with the hell no to downtown. they didn't just put 25 mil into a temp. site. it's meant to be an all in one location.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

54 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

yeah, just update the Ralph.  Can't be that hard. 

 

Coat of paint? Sure. Anything else? Not that easy, or cheap.

 

And as @Kirby Jackson points out, you can't significantly upgrade the price structure in the same old stadium. This is what's it's mostly about.

Edited July 20, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[Mr. WEO]

A new stadium and a new arena would completely screw Erie County.  

[Don Otreply]

I guess the OP is going to be disappointed then.  When the new stadium is built it’s gonna be downtown. Just imagine, a city with tens of thousands of people on the streets, a vibrant city, a city with the name  BUFFALO attached to it.  Wouldn’t that be a great day for BUFFALO New York?  I sure hope all you BUFFALO BILLS fans think that would be a very good thing to have happen.

 

Go Bills!!!

[billsredneck1]

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

A new stadium and a new arena would completely screw Erie County.  

ya think? andy isn't gonna do that. best bet is have the senecas take the job and put a sports betting casino in it....with a hotel next door. don't be surprised...

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

I guess the OP is going to be disappointed then.  When the new stadium is built it’s gonna be downtown. Just imagine, a city with tens of thousands of people on the streets, a vibrant city, a city with the name  BUFFALO attached to it.  Wouldn’t that be a great day for BUFFALO New York?  I sure hope all you BUFFALO BILLS fans think that would be a very good thing to have happen.

 

Go Bills!!!

no offense but i give more credence to those who actually live in the area.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, billsredneck1 said:

ya think? andy isn't gonna do that. best bet is have the senecas take the job and put a sports betting casino in it....with a hotel next door. don't be surprised...

no offense but i give more credence to those who actually live in the area.

 

A sports book and casino to fill an arena?? So close to niagara? No chance.  Plus no one is going to build another hotel tower in Buffalo.  occupancy rates can’t support that

Edited July 21, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[RiotAct]

Downtown near the waterfront is a rat’s nest. Just say no to rat’s nests.

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I did however sit in stop and go traffic for an hour on I90, so the point still stands. Traffic is always going to be an issue leaving a venue with 70 or 50 thousand people there. No way around it.

 

There are alternates that could help significantly.  

 

There used to be deal with train, Amtrak I believe, with partial season ticket packages allowing you to take train to station and they had shuttle buses to game.

 

Orchard Park / Eric County/ New York could install express bus lanes to and primarily from stadium to lots which would allow large amounts of people to leave area reducing clogging.  

55 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

I guess the OP is going to be disappointed then.  When the new stadium is built it’s gonna be downtown. Just imagine, a city with tens of thousands of people on the streets, a vibrant city, a city with the name  BUFFALO attached to it.  Wouldn’t that be a great day for BUFFALO New York?  I sure hope all you BUFFALO BILLS fans think that would be a very good thing to have happen.

 

Go Bills!!!

 

10 days a year is not worth cost.  If the Pegulas/NFL/Corporate sponsors were picking up the costs of the stadium I could see the state picking up infrastructure costs but it is a lot easier of Albany politicians to pick up cost for public work projects in NYC area than elsewhere although they do not mind taxing everyone rather than creating special taxing district.

[Don Otreply]

58 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

ya think? andy isn't gonna do that. best bet is have the senecas take the job and put a sports betting casino in it....with a hotel next door. don't be surprised...

no offense but i give more credence to those who actually live in the area.

So why do you resist the Billionaires who are already well on the way to doing what you want the Senecas to do? 

 

Go Bills!!! 

[Don Otreply]

41 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

There are alternates that could help significantly.  

 

There used to be deal with train, Amtrak I believe, with partial season ticket packages allowing you to take train to station and they had shuttle buses to game.

 

Orchard Park / Eric County/ New York could install express bus lanes to and primarily from stadium to lots which would allow large amounts of people to leave area reducing clogging.  

 

10 days a year is not worth cost.  If the Pegulas/NFL/Corporate sponsors were picking up the costs of the stadium I could see the state picking up infrastructure costs but it is a lot easier of Albany politicians to pick up cost for public work projects in NYC area than elsewhere although they do not mind taxing everyone rather than creating special taxing district.

Change is the only constant in our lives,  let your/our tax money be spent on stuff that makes us happy, hell we’re gonna be dead in not so many years. The new stadium is not the end all of course, but it sure won’t hurt. It’s always a good sign to see construction happening in a city. It does beat no construction happening. Communities die when they stop trying.

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

I guess the OP is going to be disappointed then.  When the new stadium is built it’s gonna be downtown. Just imagine, a city with tens of thousands of people on the streets, a vibrant city, a city with the name  BUFFALO attached to it.  Wouldn’t that be a great day for BUFFALO New York?  I sure hope all you BUFFALO BILLS fans think that would be a very good thing to have happen.

 

Go Bills!!!

I see thousands and thousands of people downtown every day already

 

And it's already a vibrant city from downtown , to Larkin , to North Buffalo , south buffalo... Heck I love the east side and Lovejoy and Ktown as well

[billsfan_34]

5 hours ago, Chicharito said:

First off I have now been to 5 nfl stadiums with “downtown” settings. Cleveland, Denver, Pittsburgh, Charlotte, and now Jacksonville. I went to The Rolling Stones concert in Jacksonville last night. If the nfl wants to pressure the bills to build a new stadium Jacksonville has to build a new one. 

 

 That stadium is small. I can’t even believe The playing surface is big enough for an nfl game. I literally felt like I was on top of the person next to me. Kind of like being at Fenway Park. 

 

With th the obvious traffic problem that will persist if and when a new stadium is built downtown will be atrocious. All DT stadiums have these problems so please Mr. and MRS. Pegula don’t do it.

Ive been to JAX stadium twice- the stadium itself was pretty vanilla but the overall weekend times 2 experience was great. Stayed at the landing and water taxi’d to the games- can’t complain much about that.

[BuffAlone]

4 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Yep... I didnt know about this route but a cop at a stop directed me, take this way. What you're doing is going to take forever. My hat off to him.

 

I did however sit in stop and go traffic for an hour on I90, so the point still stands. Traffic is always going to be an issue leaving a venue with 70 or 50 thousand people there. No way around it.

 

The stadium has almost nothing to do with the sports science facility. I'm sure it could have some use on game days, but nothing that couldn't be replicated in a new stadium. You can practice and use that facility during the week and play downtown. They have little do with each other.

Well yeah, fortunately for me, I lived in Orleans county and could drive right past I90 on route 63 and be home in no time?

[akcash]

6 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

Idk...at least leaving OP, there's a back door route thru Akron that can still put you on I-90 in 30 minutes. Most people just don't know it. Sure as hell beats waiting in line, even if you go 20 miles out of your way you can still be ahead of the curve

Is that where u sneak though Akron/Newsread and get on the thruway in Pembroke?

[Formerly Allan in MD]

The Redskins stadium is not downtown and not easily accessible to a subway line (it's actually not accessible to anything).  It can take an hour and a half to get out of the parking lot.  A downtown football  located near good access roads and transportation (Ravens stadium for example) can be far from a loser.  And what does for the local economy (restaurants, parking concessions, hotels, etc.) is a big plus.

[Rocket94]

My first reaction was to go ahead and build downtown to help the economy and anchor the redevelopment. While this is all good, it takes away the total essence of what a true Bills team is, especially a winning Bills team playing with a home field advantage in the elements.

[BuffAlone]

1 hour ago, akcash said:

Is that where u sneak though Akron/Newsread and get on the thruway in Pembroke?

Yup. I just go north on 63 from there and I'm home in15 miles from Pembroke ?well, what I used to call home anyway

Edited July 21, 2019 by BuffAlone

[Cripple Creek]

12 hours ago, Chicharito said:

First off I have now been to 5 nfl stadiums with “downtown” settings. Cleveland, Denver, Pittsburgh, Charlotte, and now Jacksonville. I went to The Rolling Stones concert in Jacksonville last night. If the nfl wants to pressure the bills to build a new stadium Jacksonville has to build a new one. 

 

 That stadium is small. I can’t even believe The playing surface is big enough for an nfl game. I literally felt like I was on top of the person next to me. Kind of like being at Fenway Park. 

 

With th the obvious traffic problem that will persist if and when a new stadium is built downtown will be atrocious. All DT stadiums have these problems so please Mr. and MRS. Pegula don’t do it.

If you build it, they will come. ™️ 

[87168]

6 hours ago, Rocket94 said:

My first reaction was to go ahead and build downtown to help the economy and anchor the redevelopment. While this is all good, it takes away the total essence of what a true Bills team is, especially a winning Bills team playing with a home field advantage in the elements. 

how would any of that change?

 

"True Bills team"? the stadium was in the city prior to moving to the Southtowns, so I guess I don't understand the "true" part? the weather would also be practically the same...

 

the stadium needs to be moved back to the city (downtown), and it will.

 

[HOUSE]

THERE IS NO PARKING DOWN THERE

[BillsfaninChicago]

14 hours ago, BuffalothruMyVeins said:

What are the chances they build a site that both the Bills and Sabres share? Maybe not literally the same facility, but 2 stadiums on the same site? I have heard the Sabres could use a new arena too, so maybe get them both done at once?

In my mind it is still a new arena, hard to believe 1996 was 23 years ago. Yep I am getting old!

Edited July 21, 2019 by Leonhart2017

[PromoTheRobot]

7 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

Yup. I just go north on 63 from there and I'm home in15 miles from Pembroke ?well, what I used to call home anyway

 

A little forethought and planning go a long way. 

[Chandler#81]

I live in Jax, was at the Stones concert and yes, the traffic was terrible. But I’ve lived here for years and knew the quick way out of the stadium which got me quickly around the major traffic jam in downtown. I’m positive most folks here know the best way to egress New Era Stadium to get you to/from your destination too. 

It’ll be the same -just different- if/when a new Bills venue goes up in Buffalo.

 

P.S. The Rolling Stones are STILL phenomenal! 

 

e

[Rocket94]

6 hours ago, 87168 said:

how would any of that change?

 

"True Bills team"? the stadium was in the city prior to moving to the Southtowns, so I guess I don't understand the "true" part? the weather would also be practically the same...

 

the stadium needs to be moved back to the city (downtown), and it will.

 

We will see. I am anxious to see where. When I supported a stadium downtown before...I got shot down. Wherever it may be, I just want it advantageous to the Bills and of course the fans attending.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Rocket94

[plenzmd1]

 

15 hours ago, ScotSHO said:

I'm a north towner, so once I can sneak over to route 5 and head north, I'm golden!

 

And I agree, just do a new stadium or revamp the old one with a covered seating area.  No to downtown.

shhhhh...that the way we go too!

14 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

What meaningful upgrades are possible in that stadium with its sunken design ?  Something that would give actual pricing power ? Fewer seats can be accomplished for certain, but climate control ? Much wider concourses with better concessions and larger restrooms ? I’m not an expert, but I’ve read about these issues when previous renovations were done. A reno won’t be cheap, and the improvements may not go far enough. Any revenue increases will need to come from ticket pricing structure and concessions because a stadium won’t change the corporate situation in Buffalo. 

Buffalo could improve its traffic flow by fixing the ridiculously poor traffic light timing, for starters. It’s haphazard, nonsensical and horrific. 

i agree more efficient stands would be great..but i am curious with the huge tailgating nature of Bills games, do you think more concessions are necessary?  At the last Fan Board meeting they were talking about introducing "value meals" , aimed more at kids..be interesting to see if they do it. And the bathrooms..especially in the lower bowl...ey yi yi!

8 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

Yup. I just go north on 63 from there and I'm home in15 miles from Pembroke ?well, what I used to call home anyway

cuurious, where do you park and what route out of the stadium? Is it just 20A over? One time when we were heading to the airport out of Hammers, Waze took us south on Abbott for about 1/2 mile, then east over to the 219( it was the colts snow game, everything was a mess so thats why we used Waze).

 

A couple of games this year i may be heading out that way, thanks inn advance for the help