Article: Today's NFL Would Have Been Perfect for Doug Flutie

[Stank_Nasty]

37 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

I had already mentioned that Flutie was a "winner".

 

Let me reiterate - I loved Flutie in Buffalo.   I was just not blinded by his Hail Mary passes and Canadian stardom to recognize / realize that he was OK but not great.  

I don't think anyone has even called him great in this thread.... its basically people saying he won games and was solid in buffalo and a handful of others that are emotionally charged about him not being a "swell" guy and saying he was terrible. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

30 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Why was AB let go ? Why was Leveon aloud to walk ? Why was Hershel Walker aloud to go ?

Too noisy?

[Stank_Nasty]

45 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Flutie was a great QB, that is in the CFL.

 

I have already written this in this thread but once again... Flutie was a me first guy, it was more about Flutie than it was the team.  He purposely polarized the lockeroom against rob Johnson (and he got away with it because Wade Philips is a great coach but doesnt have the balls often to stand up to people).   When flutie was benched he pouted on the bench like an 8 yr old girl, refused to help, he is the definition of an unprofessional and a selfish spoiled brat player.  As maligned as rob johnson is around here he engineered one of the great Bills playoff comabacks and easily could have gone all the way to the Super Bowl, had not the music City Miracle fiasco  happened..then the ENTIRe Rob johnson-Doug Flutie Narrative could be dramatically different.

 

for 3 years the same exact team flutie had a winning record with, had a crap record with Johnson at the helm.... the narrative is plenty accurate. 

[Stank_Nasty]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

1) W/L is a TEAM Stat, not just a QB Stat.  He had one of the great defenses the Bills ever had.

 

2) His one time in the playoffs he choked fumbled away the game on the 5 yard line, win-less in post season.

 

3) Figure it out for yourself,  your best "selling " point is he was better than rob Johnson.

again... the year he came in on an 0-3 team and they finished 10-6, the bills had the 15th ranked defense in points allowed and 6th in yds. meanwhile the offense was top ten in points scored and yds. apparently you missed that the first time I said it.... I get it. it doesn't fit narrative on your end.

 

he was a solid qb in his stint in buffalo. you don't think he was a good guy. whatever.  he won way more games than the other guy and led solid offenses. please go look at how those offenses performed before you spout off anymore about how it was just the defense. I already showed you numbers from 98 that cut  your argument in half.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[RoyBatty is alive]

6 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

for 3 years the same exact team flutie had a winning record with, had a crap record with Johnson at the helm.... the narrative is plenty accurate. 

 

Fine, you think Flutie was a "great" QB because his teams had a better W/L record than R Johnson so be it

Edited July 9, 2019 by RoyBatty is alive

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Fine, you think Flutie was a "great" QB because his teams had a better W/L record than R Johnson so be it

right so now when I say "solid" it means great..... you're a character.

 

its obvious you cant talk with a clear head on the matter. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[MJS]

Are we seriously still arguing about Flutie and Johnson all these years later?

 

People need to give it a rest.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, T master said:

 

Why was AB let go ? Why was Leveon aloud to walk ? Why was Hershel Walker aloud to go ? 

 

 

You may be correct in that the stats prove that Johnson was a better QB but there was only 1 stat that Flutie beat Johnson in which was wins & the other you can't measure Leadership ...

 

 

No they don't.

 

The prove the opposite.

[row_33]

if only

if only

if only

if only

if only

if only

if only

if only

if only

if only

if only

if only

if only

if only

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Are we seriously still arguing about Flutie and Johnson all these years later?

 

People need to give it a rest.

 

Because Doug Flutie is the this guy.....

 

 

of QBs.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

The modern NFL is a better fit for Flutie(and most QB's) but the main difference between late career Flutie and today's "short" QB's is that he didn't have the throwing arm that guys like Wilson or Murray or even early-Bills Tyrod had.

 

If you can't throw a deep out consistently from the pocket you will almost inevitably be forced to.

 

It happened to Flutie then and it would have happened again now.

 

And his style of scrambling would actually not work as well with todays defenders.    They are faster.    Flutie was super quick and elusive but he wasn't going to be breaking off 40 yard runs like Josh Allen or Tyrod did in the modern game.   Those guys can eat up ground with real speed and the threat of the deep ball stretched defenses to allow them the space.    Flutie would still be a dynamic scrambler behind the LOS but he'd have been playing in a pinball machine at the next level against LB's and DB's that were already squatting on his short throws.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The modern NFL is a better fit for Flutie(and most QB's) but the main difference between late career Flutie and today's "short" QB's is that he didn't have the throwing arm that guys like Wilson or Murray or even early-Bills Tyrod had.

 

If you can't throw a deep out consistently from the pocket you will almost inevitably be forced to.

 

It happened to Flutie then and it would have happened again now.

 

And his style of scrambling would actually not work as well with todays defenders.    They are faster.    Flutie was super quick and elusive but he wasn't going to be breaking off 40 yard runs like Josh Allen or Tyrod did in the modern game.   Those guys can eat up ground with real speed and the threat of the deep ball stretched defenses to allow them the space.    Flutie would still be a dynamic scrambler behind the LOS but he'd have been playing in a pinball machine at the next level against LB's and DB's that were already squatting on his short throws.

 

 

He was pretty good as a runner, but his real forte was always scrambling. That's a sixth-sense sort of thing, and he had it. 

[ddaryl]

Flutie wasn't good in any NFL era. A few fun plays here and there but overall the guy sucked at QB in the NFL and because he was short who occasionally made an exciting play, this some how endeared himself to a very strange group of revisionist.

Was the guy over rated. OFF THE CHARTS...

[BADOLBILZ]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

He was pretty good as a runner, but his real forte was always scrambling. That's a sixth-sense sort of thing, and he had it. 

 

Exactly but I think people confuse the two though.............very different skill. 

 

I think people who don't realize that think..........."hey he would gave been just as dangerous in the open field as Russell Wilson is now"...........but Russell Wilson he was not.   The guys making headlines today are faster and more of a threat to throw the ball downfield.   That's what equates to yardage gained running as a passer in the modern NFL.   DF was good for about 10 yards on an occasional bootleg dash to the sideline but Rob Johnson was actually the guy who could tuck and RUN for a 40 yard gain.

 

As far as scrambling and avoiding being hit hard there has never been anyone like Flutie, IMO.    I don't know if there is actual footage of him taking a massive hit. 

 

[NoSaint]

22 hours ago, StHustle said:

All he did was make the Pro Bowl...and no not as an alternate like Tyrod. The lack of respect for Flutie from Bills fans always perplexes me. People got mad at Flutie for being pissed about being the FIRST (and still ONLY) starting QB to be benched for the playoffs in NFL HISTORY. Plenty of the players were also pissed about it and somehow Flutie got labeled a cancer cause the locker room naturally split after such a dumb decision. 

 

I’ll go out on a limb and say Flutie is LESS suited for today’s nfl. 

 

Hes a fine enough player but being a novelty worked to his favor. In a league accustomed to his play his shortcomings would be magnified.

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The modern NFL is a better fit for Flutie(and most QB's) but the main difference between late career Flutie and today's "short" QB's is that he didn't have the throwing arm that guys like Wilson or Murray or even early-Bills Tyrod had.

 

If you can't throw a deep out consistently from the pocket you will almost inevitably be forced to.

 

It happened to Flutie then and it would have happened again now.

 

And his style of scrambling would actually not work as well with todays defenders.    They are faster.    Flutie was super quick and elusive but he wasn't going to be breaking off 40 yard runs like Josh Allen or Tyrod did in the modern game.   Those guys can eat up ground with real speed and the threat of the deep ball stretched defenses to allow them the space.    Flutie would still be a dynamic scrambler behind the LOS but he'd have been playing in a pinball machine at the next level against LB's and DB's that were already squatting on his short throws.

 

 

 

Big time agreement here.

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Exactly but I think people confuse the two though.............very different skill. 

 

I think people who don't realize that think..........."hey he would gave been just as dangerous in the open field as Russell Wilson is now"...........but Russell Wilson he was not.   The guys making headlines today are faster and more of a threat to throw the ball downfield.   That's what equates to yardage gained running as a passer in the modern NFL.   DF was good for about 10 yards on an occasional bootleg dash to the sideline but Rob Johnson was actually the guy who could tuck and RUN for a 40 yard gain.

 

As far as scrambling and avoiding being hit hard there has never been anyone like Flutie, IMO.    I don't know if there is actual footage of him taking a massive hit. 

 

 

 

I think Russel Wilson is just as good as Flutie every was, look at all the runs in the NFL Wilson has had and has never missed a game in 7 full seasons.  In regular NFL play he has rushed 645 times, pretty extraorodiay.

[BigDingus]

Doesn't matter what anyone wants to say, all that is 100% certain is that it was an idiotic decision to bench your year-long starter who lead you to the playoffs in favor of an unproven backup for the Wildcard game.

Never happened before, never will happen again. Doesn't matter if Johnson didn't lose us the game, it was a stupid decision. Fact.

[T master]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

No they don't.

 

The prove the opposite.

 

While with the Bills .

 

Flute - 21-9 W/L - 3 yrs 

Johnson - 10-17 W/L-  And Johnson had 4 yrs to do this ? Stats off the charts good though ?

 

Just saying ...

[Mr. WEO]

26 minutes ago, T master said:

 

While with the Bills .

 

Flute - 21-9 W/L - 3 yrs 

Johnson - 10-17 W/L-  And Johnson had 4 yrs to do this ? Stats off the charts good though ?

 

Just saying ...

 

 

Correct

Edited July 9, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

I think Russel Wilson is just as good as Flutie every was, look at all the runs in the NFL Wilson has had and has never missed a game in 7 full seasons.  In regular NFL play he has rushed 645 times, pretty extraorodiay.

 

 

Wilson is a better runner.........he is faster and more of a threat to gain yardage....... but he's not better at avoiding being hit hard.    Russell takes a beating at times.

[Punching Bag]

9 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I don't think anyone has even called him great in this thread.... its basically people saying he won games and was solid in buffalo and a handful of others that are emotionally charged about him not being a "swell" guy and saying he was terrible. 

 

He was signed to an incentive based contract, Rob Johnson was hired and when he was injured Flutie took his place and he was great at hitting every incentive in contract.

Now someone as called him great.

[Orlando Tim]

11 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Flutie was a great QB, that is in the CFL.

 

I have already written this in this thread but once again... Flutie was a me first guy, it was more about Flutie than it was the team.  He purposely polarized the lockeroom against rob Johnson (and he got away with it because Wade Philips is a great coach but doesnt have the balls often to stand up to people).   When flutie was benched he pouted on the bench like an 8 yr old girl, refused to help, he is the definition of an unprofessional and a selfish spoiled brat player.  As maligned as rob johnson is around here he engineered one of the great Bills playoff comabacks and easily could have gone all the way to the Super Bowl, had not the music City Miracle fiasco  happened..then the ENTIRe Rob johnson-Doug Flutie Narrative could be dramatically different.

 

so the me first guy inspired his teammates to win 10 in a row after starting 0-3? i will stand by the fact that flutie had a 60% win history and Johnson was about 35% with similar talent.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 7/9/2019 at 1:54 PM, T master said:

 

While with the Bills .

 

Flute - 21-9 W/L - 3 yrs 

Johnson - 10-17 W/L-  And Johnson had 4 yrs to do this ? Stats off the charts good though ?

 

Just saying ...

 

 

All Flutie does is win!.........until he goes to San Diego and produces a 5-11 season.?

 

The sum of both of their parts was a franchise QB.............but individually they were both fatally flawed as starting QB's in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

On 7/9/2019 at 1:54 PM, T master said:

 

While with the Bills .

 

Flute - 21-9 W/L - 3 yrs 

Johnson - 10-17 W/L-  And Johnson had 4 yrs to do this ? Stats off the charts good though ?

 

Just saying ...

22-8. Never, ever forget Foxboro.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Stank_Nasty]

53 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

22-8. Never, ever forget Foxboro.

 

 

I really shouldn't have watched that.... ???

 

who throws that freaking flag there?!?!?

[RoyBatty is alive]

37 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I really shouldn't have watched that.... ???

 

who throws that freaking flag there?!?!?

 

Answer: no legit ref does

 

I remember that game vividly, i can still recall how dismal and depressing it was to watch the end. Little did I know the real Pats nightmare was yet to begin.

Edited July 10, 2019 by RoyBatty is alive

[dave mcbride]

56 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I really shouldn't have watched that.... ???

 

who throws that freaking flag there?!?!?

Walt Coleman does. He refereed that game (and the tuck rule game).

 

It wasn't just the flag either. Shawn Jefferson was a full yard short of the first down. It's as clear as effing day, and the ref was standing right there.

Edited July 10, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Gugny]

On 7/9/2019 at 7:48 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Wilson is a better runner.........he is faster and more of a threat to gain yardage....... but he's not better at avoiding being hit hard.    Russell takes a beating at times.

 

In seven full seasons as a starter, Wilson has started 16 regular season games in each season.  I think he's doing okay avoiding the big hits

[C.Biscuit97]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

All Flutie does is win!.........until he goes to San Diego and produces a 5-11 season.?

 

The sum of both of their parts was a franchise QB.............but individually they were both fatally flawed as starting QB's in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

Yet one was much better with the same exact team.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yet one was much better with the same exact team.  

 

Why am I not surprised you're a flutie guy?

[Bill from NYC]

16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

All Flutie does is win!.........until he goes to San Diego and produces a 5-11 season.?

 

The sum of both of their parts was a franchise QB.............but individually they were both fatally flawed as starting QB's in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

Wasn't he also 8-5 with the Bears? I do wonder how he would do today. The defenders are faster and even taller so I have my doubts.....

[K-9]

On 7/8/2019 at 1:37 PM, ProcessAccepted said:

In today's NFL he would not have been banished to Canada because of his height. He would have gotten a fair shake.

We've had top tier defenses several times over the 17 year playoff drought and didn't make the plays on offense when we needed. Flutie was a difference maker, just look how we did with him playing versus Rob Johnson

 

I can’t agree that Flutie was banished to Canada and didn’t get a fair shake. He spent four years in the NFL and one in the USFL before heading north, after all. He had plenty of opportunities to nail down an NFL job but he wasn’t ready. And crossing the picket lines in ‘87 didn’t help his cause any, either. Tough being a QB and leading a team when half the guys think you’re a scab. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Why am I not surprised you're a flutie guy?

And why am I not surprised you’re a fan of the dumb guy who sucked? Sorry, I like winners.  

 

 Man, I wish it was required people had to post with their real picture.  I bet you are Flutie’s size and  this is you Iin real life. 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/barstoolsports/status/1148978935713140736

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by C.Biscuit97

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

And why am I not surprised you’re a fan of the dumb guy who sucked? Sorry, I like winners.  

 

 Man, I wish it was required people had to post with their real picture.  I bet you are Flutie’s size and  this is you Iin real life. 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/barstoolsports/status/1148978935713140736

 

 

Yeah, no, dude. I'm an ogre.

 

[Buffalo Boy]

   I’m sitting here, on Vaca, chilling and bored.

I just read this whole 5 page thread and no one pointed out this stat.

Rushing League Ranking

1998 1 in attempts.  3 in yards

1999. 2 in attempts. 8 in yards

   Flutie had an arm that seemed to get weaker as the season went on.

    He threw more balls into the ground, short of his open receivers than any Bills QB I can think of other than Feragamo.

    As someone pointed out, he couldn’t throw the 10 yard out because of his lack of arm. 

    Also, that stupid jump/ spin fake.

    Those teams won based on D and Ground / Ball control offense. Flutie could manage a game. He couldn’t win a playoff game and he certainly wouldn’t have won us a Super Bowl.

     

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

18 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

In seven full seasons as a starter, Wilson has started 16 regular season games in each season.  I think he's doing okay avoiding the big hits

 

 

He's very durable for a guy who gets sacked 40-50 times per year.    The physical condition he's left in at the end of the regular season is another matter.    

 

Flutie didn't have that problem..........he got sacked less in 3 seasons in Buffalo(48 times) than Russ got sacked just last season(51).

[BADOLBILZ]

On 7/9/2019 at 1:03 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

I think Russel Wilson is just as good as Flutie every was, look at all the runs in the NFL Wilson has had and has never missed a game in 7 full seasons.  In regular NFL play he has rushed 645 times, pretty extraorodiay.

 

 

He's a more dangerous runner than Flutie.    He's also bigger, stronger and is a much better passer,  in great part due a significantly stronger throwing arm.    But he gets sacked at an alarming rate.  Not nearly as elusive behind the LOS as Flutie.  But Russ is a likely HOF QB.   Flutie is at about the level of Ryan Fitzpatrick as an NFL QB.   Shot in the arm in limited exposure.........liability as a long term starter.  He and Russ aren't comparable as overall QB's.

[Gugny]

37 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He's very durable for a guy who gets sacked 40-50 times per year.    The physical condition he's left in at the end of the regular season is another matter.    

 

Flutie didn't have that problem..........he got sacked less in 3 seasons in Buffalo(48 times) than Russ got sacked just last season(51).

 

Comparing Flutie to Wilson is silly.  And comparing Wilson to Fitzpatrick might even be sillier. 

[fansince88]

28 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Comparing Flutie to Wilson is silly.  And comparing Wilson to Fitzpatrick might even be sillier. 

Or a Franklin to a Wilson?

 

[Buffalo Boy]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He's very durable for a guy who gets sacked 40-50 times per year.    The physical condition he's left in at the end of the regular season is another matter.    

 

Flutie didn't have that problem..........he got sacked less in 3 seasons in Buffalo(48 times) than Russ got sacked just last season(51).

Easy to avoid the sack when Antowain Smith is holding the ball....