Bills Stadium Situation A Big, Big Nut To Crack...

[machine gun kelly]

As much as I would like to see in OP and a partial roof like Seattle, I can only speculate the Pegulas have a long term plan, and was going to move downtown all along.  Any of us could be wrong, but doubt the team is leaving Buffalo.  He wouldn’t have invested this much into the downtown area now, to not have in 2023 downtown.

[ALLEN1QB]

There are enough boarded up buildings in NF. How cool would it be to see the stadium in the same picture as the falls!!!

[Tenhigh]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

He dismantled a top 3 defense by hiring Rex Ryan, and in the process set a record for season ticket sales.  He's a money guy.

That logic is not very dope ass, Gugny.

[PromoTheRobot]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

The Bills are owned by a man who loves one thing and one thing only - money.  And he'll do anything for more.  Anything.

 

I world disagree. Overpaying for an asset by 165% percent is not what people who love their money do. That's what Terry did when buying the Bills. They were valued at $850MM. Yet he paid $1.4B.

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

That makes the most sense to me.  Love where the Bills are at.  Why complicate things by building it downtown?  Great tailgating, plenty of parking, and traffic isn't bad compared to most other NFL stadiums.  Retractable roof is the way to go.  Too much of a headache trying to build near downtown.

 

This is actually a problem for the Bills and the NFL. People who bring their own food and drink are not spending enough of their money.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

As much as I would like to see in OP and a partial roof like Seattle, I can only speculate the Pegulas have a long term plan, and was going to move downtown all along.  Any of us could be wrong, but doubt the team is leaving Buffalo.  He wouldn’t have invested this much into the downtown area now, to not have in 2023 downtown.

 

Ding, ding, ding, we a have a winner! They don't call it Pegulaville for nothing. Terry and Kim are setting the table. 716, Labatt House, Hoffbrau House, etc. A new stadium will be the centerpiece. Sure, if you are dead set on tailgating you'll find your spots. But a significant portion of fans will do their tailgating in a bar or restaurant that the Pegulas will have an interest in.

 

This is very much the model created by Krafty Bob at Patriot Place. People tailgate in the lots, but they also have the option of hanging out in one of several establishments that Kraft profits from. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[machine gun kelly]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Ding, ding, ding, we a have a winner! They don't call it Pegulaville for nothing. Terry and Kim are setting the table. 716, Labatt House, Hoffbrau House, etc. A new stadium will be the centerpiece. Sure, if you are dead set on tailgating you'll find your spots. But a significant portion of fans will do their tailgating in a bar or restaurant that the Pegulas will have an interest in.

 

This is very much the model created by Krafty Bob at Patriot Place. Sure, people tailgate in the lots, but they also have the option of hanging out in one of several establishments that Kraft profits from. 

 

Great point PTR.  Besides the 1st ward has so much unused space, there could be more than enough room to tailgate.  If they are all stadium lots, they will also police much more dilligently all of the idiots jumping on tables which which gives the Bills a bad name.

[shane nelson]

Sadly the Bills are a scandal,  heart attack or tragic accident away from being back on the "auction block". We were very fortunate/lucky when the team was sold to the Pegula's.  The only long term anchor is a new stadium.  I agree downtown would be a great investment into the city, but I am okay with Orchard Park as well.  Call me selfish, but all I want is a stadium up to today's NFL standards that can sustain the Bills for the next 50+ years in Western NY. 

[Cripple Creek]

8 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

The Bills are owned by a man who loves one thing and one thing only - money.  And he'll do anything for more.  Anything.

troll

[Hammered a Lot]

11 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

 

Great point PTR.  Besides the 1st ward has so much unused space, there could be more than enough room to tailgate.  If they are all stadium lots, they will also police much more dilligently all of the idiots jumping on tables which which gives the Bills a bad name.

I'll let you in on a secret, idiots table slam in stadium lots.

[NoSaint]

28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I world disagree. Overpaying for an asset by 165% percent is not what people who love their money do. That's what Terry did when buying the Bills. They were valued at $850MM. Yet he paid $1.4B.

 

This is actually a problem for the Bills and the NFL. People who bring their own food and drink are not spending enough of their money.

 

 

One might guess that valuation you are using might have been slightly off.

20 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Ding, ding, ding, we a have a winner! They don't call it Pegulaville for nothing. Terry and Kim are setting the table. 716, Labatt House, Hoffbrau House, etc. A new stadium will be the centerpiece. Sure, if you are dead set on tailgating you'll find your spots. But a significant portion of fans will do their tailgating in a bar or restaurant that the Pegulas will have an interest in.

 

This is very much the model created by Krafty Bob at Patriot Place. Sure, people tailgate in the lots, but they also have the option of hanging out in one of several establishments that Kraft profits from. 

 

Frankly it’s also nicer for the out of town folks to have options. I’ve been to plenty of sporting events where I’m not trying to lug a cooler and grill but would like to enjoy pre game festivities. 

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, nucci said:

only because of the owners. St.Louis is a good football city

NYS helped build 2 baseball stadiums and a football stadium

Greedy owners for sure- I just don’t see the NFL going back to St Louis after being there twice. The last I read, St Louis economy isn’t that great either.

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

One might guess that valuation you are using might have been slightly off.

 

Frankly it’s also nicer for the out of town folks to have options. I’ve been to plenty of sporting events where I’m not trying to lug a cooler and grill but would like to enjoy pre game festivities. 

 

$850MM was the valuation Forbes magazine gave the Bills. Like with anything, true value isn't known until you sell something. But considering Bon Jovi and Trump opening bids were $1B, the Pegulas dropped the hammer on that noise with $1.4B. (Keep in mind that the last NFL sale, the Dolphins, was $1.2B, but included the stadium. Bills were team value only.)

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

As much as I would like to see in OP and a partial roof like Seattle, I can only speculate the Pegulas have a long term plan, and was going to move downtown all along.  Any of us could be wrong, but doubt the team is leaving Buffalo.  He wouldn’t have invested this much into the downtown area now, to not have in 2023 downtown.

It is possible the investments were more geared towards the Sabres. Everything is right around Key Bank Arena. That said, much of it can be utilized if their is a new stadium built downtown. Personally, If we get a new stadium I don’t care if its built in OP or downtown as long as its done right. 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

It is possible the investments were more geared towards the Sabres. Everything is right around Key Bank Arena. That said, much of it can be utilized if their is a new stadium built downtown. Personally, If we get a new stadium I don’t care if its built in OP or downtown as long as its done right. 

 

One feature I hope they incorporate are "clubs" in the cheap seats. What I mean are concession areas where you can still watch the game from with better food and drink, but they are open to anyone.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

One feature I hope they incorporate are "clubs" in the cheap seats. What I mean are concession areas where you can still watch the game from with better food and drink, but they are open to anyone.

 

Can't have that. Only the rich deserve such things.

[Don Otreply]

I would be with the downtown contingent, The “P’s” are about long term investments when it comes to the sports entertainment thing.  The “P’s” legacy in Buffalo is what matters to them the most.  The downtown location works very well with all their other expenditures.  As I said in another post, eventually the old stadium will be taken down, leaving the playing field as part of the Bills training facility.

 

[Beerbelly]

9 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

The Bills are owned by a man who loves one thing and one thing only - money.  And he'll do anything for more.  Anything.

Good thing that old man Rodgers croaked.

[dwight in philly]

1 hour ago, ALLEN1QB said:

There are enough boarded up buildings in NF. How cool would it be to see the stadium in the same picture as the falls!!!

Or put it next to the Anchor Bar , they can see and smell the wings being shaken.. 

[Don Otreply]

9 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

IF Upstate contributed to a downstate stadium (they did as part of NY payment) then they (NY) can afford a stadium Upstate.

If not break the state in half as many have advocated.  In reality downstate and upstate have little in common other than taxes taken by Albany.

We are all New York, it’s not two separate entities.  It would be the height of foolishness to even think about splitting up the state.  It would result in less national importance, and create the poorest north east state on purpose.  Why would anyone in their right mind want to be the Mississippi of the north east?  Just sayin, 

 

Go Bills !!

Edited July 6, 2019 by Don Otreply

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I world disagree. Overpaying for an asset by 165% percent is not what people who love their money do. That's what Terry did when buying the Bills. They were valued at $850MM. Yet he paid $1.4B.

 

This is actually a problem for the Bills and the NFL. People who bring their own food and drink are not spending enough of their money.

 

 

You make a good point about him overpaying, PTR, thank you.  And I can see your (and many others') vision of Pegulaville coming true.  Personally, I think it stinks, although I get it.  Sharing food, beverages and laughs before and after the game is better than the game, itself.

 

If they take that away, one friend of mind had a great idea .... we still tailgate at Hammer's - our style - then sit there and watch the game on a laptop.

[Punching Bag]

41 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

We are all New York, it’s not two separate entities.  It would be the height of foolishness to even think about splitting up the state.  It would result in less national importance, and create the poorest north east state on purpose.  Why would anyone in their right mind want to be the Mississippi of the north east?  Just sayin, 

 

Go Bills !!

 

You sound like you were born in NYC.  When I was in college there was always a discussion on this (once economic major wrote his thesis on it) and those from SE NY were never in favor of it and the rest were not.  One guy from Lon Gisland (how he pronounced it) would say why would we want to let the serfs go?

[Augie]

10 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

The Bills are owned by a man who loves one thing and one thing only - money.  And he'll do anything for more.  Anything.

 

Are you saying he might take a part time gig at an Asian day spa???   ?

[Simon Says]

Do some research: on how much,or how little,publicly-funded stadiums affect the local economy.Dope-ass jobs or not 

[T master]

Those in Albany are to busy dumping all the tax payer dollars into the black hole better known as NYC, in the recent past they have put tax payer funds up for the new Yankee stadium, Mets stadium, Brooklyn Nets arena & no telling how much NY tax dollars went to fund the new Meadowlands stadium in NEW JERSEY, soon i would think their hockey teams will need new houses too not to mention they also have the knicks !

 

So i don't ever see (in my life time) the Bills getting any funds from the state for a new building because they are a after thought in NY sports & Roger won't re-appropriate any of his pay check to go to help build his hime town team a new home so just keep updating the Ralph it's not that bad !!

[Hammered a Lot]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

This is actually a problem for the Bills and the NFL. People who bring their own food and drink are not spending enough of their money.

 

Or parking off site!

[zonabb]

So many problems with this it's hard to compute. In the end, you fail urban economics, land use law (esp eminent domain), local government finance, civil engineering, and rational thought. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

The Bills are owned by a man who loves one thing and one thing only - money.  And he'll do anything for more.  Anything.

 

 

...quite the narrow sighted crock of crap.......he paid $1.4 BILLION in cash.......think about investing the SAME amount in a conservative vehicle and what his ROI would be....for tax purposes, I'd book no less than a jumbo rate interest bearing CD as a liability to mitigate taxes or consultant my tax accountants as to the maximum accrual under IRS rules.....solely about money?...you're way, WAY off base..........

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...quite the narrow sighted crock of crap.......he paid $1.4 BILLION in cash.......think about investing the SAME amount in a conservative vehicle and what his ROI would be....for tax purposes, I'd book no less than a jumbo rate interest bearing CD as a liability to mitigate taxes or consultant my tax accountants as to the maximum accrual under IRS rules.....solely about money?...you're way, WAY off base..........

 

I respect your opinion although I think it's naive.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

I respect your opinion although I think it's naive.

...it took me a LONG time to achieve naivety.....

[Todd Allan]

2 hours ago, dwight in philly said:

Or put it next to the Anchor Bar , they can see and smell the wings being shaken.. 

 

I know a great spot near there, on Jefferson and Best!

There's already a track and field on site, but the front gate area is just an old Rockpile.

[Orlando Tim]

11 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

He dismantled a top 3 defense by hiring Rex Ryan, and in the process set a record for season ticket sales.  He's a money guy.

i am sorry but that is an example of poor management at worst- Marrones opted out so the top 3 Defense was not staying. Also your argument of an additional 5 million a year in ticket sales matters to a dude who dropped 300 million fixing up downtown Buffalo makes it clear you have made up your mind and no evidence will show you otherwise

[BillsFan4]

might have to grab a copy of this book, just out of curiosity. 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

It has been proven over and over there is no economic boost from a stadium. It won't create jobs downtown. It just doesn't work no matter how the owners or politicians spin it. It is just an excuse to get taxpayers to fund the stadium.  

I have no real issue with tax payer funded stadium.  The public gets more out of having the Buffalo Bills than most things the government funds. I prefer a regional tax on alcohol and cigarettes to help fund the stadium.  Too bad they can't ask Ontario to chip in some funds as well.

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

You sound like you were born in NYC.  When I was in college there was always a discussion on this (once economic major wrote his thesis on it) and those from SE NY were never in favor of it and the rest were not.  One guy from Lon Gisland (how he pronounced it) would say why would we want to let the serfs go?

NYC is the economic heart of NYS. Without it, WNY is among the poorest states in the nation. Anyway, of course NYS can afford it. They will simply spend that money somewhere else so it may as well be here. NEF is pushing 50, and it’s time. No, stadiums do not do much for the local economy. No one really believes they do, but that’s not what this is all about anyway. 

25 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

It has been proven over and over there is no economic boost from a stadium. It won't create jobs downtown. It just doesn't work no matter how the owners or politicians spin it. It is just an excuse to get taxpayers to fund the stadium.  

I have no real issue with tax payer funded stadium.  The public gets more out of having the Buffalo Bills than most things the government funds. I prefer a regional tax on alcohol and cigarettes to help fund the stadium.  Too bad they can't ask Ontario to chip in some funds as well.

No one really thinks that there is an economic boost. If you want your team, you have to pay to play. That’s just how it is in the NFL. The Bills aren’t operating in some vacuum, why should it be any different ? State government keeps us on the hook for so much crap, and that won’t stop if they don’t kick in toward a new stadium. They will continue to spend our money freely regardless. 

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

You sound like you were born in NYC.  When I was in college there was always a discussion on this (once economic major wrote his thesis on it) and those from SE NY were never in favor of it and the rest were not.  One guy from Lon Gisland (how he pronounced it) would say why would we want to let the serfs go?

I grew up in Rochester NY, so no...

i just don’t think dividing people vs finding common ground is a good idea, makes the country weaker when anyone does that. We are one country made up of immigrants from all over the this world. It’s who we are like it or not.

 

Go Bills!!

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

I respect your opinion although I think it's naive.

 

...if in fact Pegula was "all about money", why state that he does not want fans to "break the bank" if a new stadium happens?....smoke, ruse or fan schmooze before the financial bomb hits?..what do you see as his motives as far as sounding to be fan friendly now?........just curious....

[billsfan_34]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

One feature I hope they incorporate are "clubs" in the cheap seats. What I mean are concession areas where you can still watch the game from with better food and drink, but they are open to anyone.

I will tell ya this, I love the food and services in my club seats. If they were to add a higher level of food/drink in a more traditional seat I would think the cost may go up some for the seat or maybe the concessions increase along with an automatic gratuity? Interesting thought for sure!

[Cripple Creek]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I respect your opinion although I think it's naive.

troll

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Cripple Creek said:

troll

 

Not at all.  I personally find it silly to think that a man who's made billions of dollars suddenly doesn't care whether he makes money simply because it's the Bills.

 

No one in their right mind would spend over a billion dollars without the PRIMARY goal of making it back and then some.

 

I do believe that winning is more important to Terry Pegula than it was to Ralph Wilson.  Did I believe it after he came in and hired Rex Ryan?  NO.  And justifiably so.

 

I'm not a hockey fan, but I'm around enough Sabres fans on here to know that his tenure as owner of that team has not been successful ... if one considers building winning teams as a success.

 

The Pegula/Bills story is just beginning.  But I'll side with, "Rich Billionaire Wants to Get Richer," as the likely headline until I see a reason to believe otherwise.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, T master said:

Those in Albany are to busy dumping all the tax payer dollars into the black hole better known as NYC, in the recent past they have put tax payer funds up for the new Yankee stadium, Mets stadium, Brooklyn Nets arena & no telling how much NY tax dollars went to fund the new Meadowlands stadium in NEW JERSEY, soon i would think their hockey teams will need new houses too not to mention they also have the knicks !

 

So i don't ever see (in my life time) the Bills getting any funds from the state for a new building because they are a after thought in NY sports & Roger won't re-appropriate any of his pay check to go to help build his hime town team a new home so just keep updating the Ralph it's not that bad !!

 

 

WTF??

 

NYC is the revenue engine for the state.  It brings in a disproportionately high amount of tax revenue and receives a disproportionate amount of funding back, based on the % of NYS residents who live there.  Meanwhile Upstate produces far less tax revenue, yet receives a disproportionally high amount of state funding for its population.  This is hardly news.