Is Donovan McNabb Hall of Fame Worthy?

[C.Biscuit97]

11 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

You just don’t get football history. Everything is not numbers in black and white.

You don’t either.  Jim Kelly was on one of most talented teams in nfl history.  He had worse regular season and post season stats than McNabb.  McNabb played with one HOF caliber player. Yet, he played in a SB and 4 championship games. 

 

And my point remains consistent.  Kelly is a HOF while McNabb is on the outside looking in.  But if you completely dismiss McNabb’s career, you are kinda foolish.  He was at worst a slight step down from Kelly. 

[Punching Bag]

21 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Troy Aikman Super Bowl wins 3, Donovan McNabb Super Bowl wins 0

 

Another reason to never use QB stats when comparing careers.  

 

Yes so every player on Dallass teams should be in Hall of Fame.

[ALLEN1QB]

20 hours ago, Rico said:

Can't get past him puking on the field during what could've been a Super Bowl game-winning drive.

Dude!!!! Forgot about that one!!!!!

[machine gun kelly]

I don’t remember the puking on a SB winning drive, but I was at the game in Tampa in September during their playoff years where the Bucs and Eagles were always competing each other.  I actually felt bad for him as it 99 degrees with a heat. Index of 117 degrees, and he threw. Up ifI remember in the second half.

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

Yes so every player on Dallass teams should be in Hall of Fame.

For better or worse, it's the QB who gets the credit or blame for wins & losses.  It doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but that's how the HOF voters view it.  

[berg1029]

Guy was the leader of a team that made it to four straight NFC championship games.  Statistically, he's a borderline case.  But the sustained success of those Eagle's teams should, imo, put him in.  Yes, he doesn't have the super bowl wins, but neither do the Bill's elite.  

[JPP]

Nope

[Ethan in Cleveland]

No unless puking in the SuperBowl gets you an award

1 hour ago, berg1029 said:

Guy was the leader of a team that made it to four straight NFC championship games.  Statistically, he's a borderline case.  But the sustained success of those Eagle's teams should, imo, put him in.  Yes, he doesn't have the super bowl wins, but neither do the Bill's elite.  

Those Bills teams won those AFC Championship games (one on the road) and didn't lose a playoff game at home until the Jags.  Eagles and Reid choked losing two conference championship games at home

[Orlando Tim]

i am an SU fan and watched closely McNabb and think he should be in. his numbers are really good and for many years he was the only true talent on that offense. the biggest difference between him and russell wilson right now is wilsons team won the super bowl but that was all defense. i know he is not a surefire guy but some guys on here are being unrealistic about the accomplishments of McNabb. 

[NoSaint]

8 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

He seemed like he was missing that edge, sometimes seeming lackadaisical even in big games. Maybe a bit like Bledsoe?

 

He was a good player, very good maybe, but not an NFL Hall of Fame caliber player.

 

Sometimes I think that “edge” is just fans loving to create soap opera storylines 

 

but McNabb not even knowing the tie rule late in his career I think underscores his casual approach to the most important position in sports. 

 

Very talented. Won a ton. But hard to embrace a guy like that as an all time great.

[Mr. WEO]

On May 24, 2019 at 5:41 PM, Albany,n.y. said:

Troy Aikman Super Bowl wins 3, Donovan McNabb Super Bowl wins 0

 

Another reason to never use QB stats when comparing careers.  

 

  

You're right.  Screw the stats!:

 

Jeff Hosteler Super Bowl wins 1, Jim Kelly Super Bowl wins 0

[stuvian]

12 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The answer to why he failed when out of Philadelphia is pretty obvious-he was done.  Players fall off the face of the earth at different ages.  McNabb just stayed too long after his physical abilities left him.  We've seen this before with players a lot better than McNabb: Namath in Los Angeles, Unitas in San Diego, Archie Manning with Houson & Minnesota.  I can even cite a lesser QB who won a Super Bowl, Jim McMahon who bounced around a few seasons after leaving the Bears and our own Joe Ferguson, who had to have his uniform torn off his back playing 6 more years as a backup with 3 teams well after his prime.  Fergy even tried a stint as a backup 5 years after he left the NFL with San Antonio's CFL Texans coached by Kay Stephenson.  These old QBs just don't know when it's time to hang it up.  

those texts he sent that caused his dismissal from the NFLN were HOF worthy though

[LeGOATski]

On 5/24/2019 at 4:37 PM, rodneykm said:

I hate that this will eventually break down into a racial conversation. ...

Lol, you were the first one.

 

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Albany,n.y.]

56 minutes ago, stuvian said:

those texts he sent that caused his dismissal from the NFLN were HOF worthy though

Please elaborate.  I have no idea what you're referring to.  

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

  

You're right.  Screw the stats!:

 

Jeff Hosteler Super Bowl wins 1, Jim Kelly Super Bowl wins 0

Every QB who has started 3 or more Super Bowls is either in the HOF or will be a 1st ballot HOFer (P.Manning & Brady).  The most important thing for a QB is being a consistent winner & a champion, not some stats that some people could use to say Rob Johnson was better than Jim Kelly.  Absolutely-screw QB stats!  A lot of mediocre QBs have 1 Super Bowl, but the greats play in multiple Super Bowls & the GOATS of their time won multiple Supers (post 1966).  

[LSHMEAB]

24 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Every QB who has started 3 or more Super Bowls is either in the HOF or will be a 1st ballot HOFer (P.Manning & Brady).  The most important thing for a QB is being a consistent winner & a champion, not some stats that some people could use to say Rob Johnson was better than Jim Kelly.  Absolutely-screw QB stats!  A lot of mediocre QBs have 1 Super Bowl, but the greats play in multiple Super Bowls & the GOATS of their time won multiple Supers (post 1966).  

It's not THAT binary. Rob Johnson had 800 career attempts compared to Kelly's 4800. Nobody has ever, or would ever, claim that Rob Johnson was better than Jim Kelly. Winning matters, but that ultimately requires elements beyond a QB's control. Marino may very well be the best QB of all time. I would say Brady because of the combination of body of work/RINGS. I won't, however, summarily dismiss the stats of guy's who may not have played on championship caliber teams.

[HardyBoy]

15 hours ago, bobobonators said:

Really good QB. Not HOF. 

 

McNabb wasnt among the best QB’s of his era - Favre, Manning, Brady, Brees

 

I dunno, that was before all those guys except Favre really got there. They were all chasing the same thing and McNabb came damn close to getting it. TO getting hurt was huge.

 

The offenses in the nfl also changed toward the end of McNabb's career, and for Brady it was at the peak of his prime.

 

The Eagles offensive trio was crazy legit in 2005, two years before Brady and Moss. McNabb was a huge, terrifying part of that.  That was the coolest offense I have seen in a long time, now everyone in the league does it. 

 

He was a complete mold breaker for the time, and the league had not seen a qb like that in my lifetime. Warren Moon and Cunningham were different runners and overall style of play.

 

Culpepper is like McNabb. Cam Newton is like McNabb. Josh Allen is like McNabb.

 

Only McNabb managed to reinvent himself as a pocket passer. Remember that? Remember how everyone said he had no chance and they had that offense, after losing in what 3 straight nfc championship games?! And they were all upsets it felt like at least. He was the qb on the best team in the league that went to 3 straight nfc championship games and lost in a one game sample size.

 

Hopefully Josh Allen can be like Donovan McNabb in a lot of ways. He was the first modern in skill set quarterback...a solid runner who could also throw really well, that again, changed the damn league in a fundamental way. 

 

Stop looking at the stats. It was a pass happy offense in a non pass happy league. Getting there, but dbs could grab and you could get destroyed across the middle.

 

I'm not saying definite hall of famer, but a lot of people are blindly saying he was simply good, and that isn't the case.

[jlgarsh]

I just remember them being behind in the super bowl, and McNabb not kknowing how to run a hurry up offense.  Didn'the also not know an OT game could end in a tie?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....anybody venture a guess why?...or is the debate just as fluid among voting writers as it is here, perhaps a marginal candidate?...............

 

By Chuck Schilken

May 24, 2019 | 11:15 AM

 

"Donovan McNabb has been nominated for the Pro Football Hall of Fame every year since he became eligible in 2017, and all three times he has not made the cut. "

[stuvian]

9 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Please elaborate.  I have no idea what you're referring to.  

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/marshall-faulk-allegedly-sexually-harassed-nfl-network-employee-article-1.3692550

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Every QB who has started 3 or more Super Bowls is either in the HOF or will be a 1st ballot HOFer (P.Manning & Brady).  The most important thing for a QB is being a consistent winner & a champion, not some stats that some people could use to say Rob Johnson was better than Jim Kelly.  Absolutely-screw QB stats!  A lot of mediocre QBs have 1 Super Bowl, but the greats play in multiple Super Bowls & the GOATS of their time won multiple Supers (post 1966).  

 

McNabb was a pretty consistent winner--about 60% of his starts.  Same as Kelly.  

 

He won a "championship" game (Kelly won 4) and played in 6 (NFCC+SB). 

 

Kelly's SB stats are not good:  4 games,  829 yards, 57%, 2 TDs (all in 1 game), 7 ints.   McNabb has more SB TDs than Kelly.

 

Eli Manning won "multiple Supers".

[YodaMan79]

As others have stated, McNabb = good to very good at times.

 

In his era he's bordering on top 10 amongst his peers.  HOF is for the elite, players who are talked about long after they are done.  He's a footnote and mostly forgotten outside of Philadelphia, if not for his stupid comments.  Fans here have had enough of the guy.  For the historically best QB in the organization, that's saying something (though that bar is not exceeding high).    

 

Here are some things that people forget about when discussing him:

 

- He had an elite OL most of his career -- curtesy of the Bills, partly.  We'd kill to have bookends like Tre Thomas and Runyan for a decade. 

- Very inaccurate passer.  To be sub 60% in a WC offense is telling 

- A. Reid was passing the ball greater than 65% of the time, and his numbers are still not great.  He should be obligated to give A. Reid a portion of his future pension checks, he could have easily been another A. Smith without him.  How did he look outside of the Eagles organization?  He would only throw the ball if a receiver was wide open.  He did not throw receivers open or to spots.  This is primarily the reason his TD to INT ratio is 2 - 1.  He wouldn't pull the trigger. 

- Jim Johnson fielded great defensive teams during their stretch run.  Early in his career that took a big burden off of him.  Great defenses help the offense so much.  Not much credence is given to more possessions and great field position.

- Brian Westbrook was for a period of time was Marshall Faulk like.  Made McNabb's passing and % numbers better than they were.  Westbrook was a stud, too bad about his knees.  He always had really good RB talent that could do it all.  

- He played a big a part in dividing the locker room when T.O. wanted a fair market deal after the SB.  He was a passive aggressive baby and was super jealous of how the fan base and city gravitated to TO and not him.  He publicly backed Westbrook during a contract situation and refused to say anything regarding T.O. 

- People keep talking about lack of talent surrounding him...here's a question, who did he make better?  Great QBs find a way to make it happen and help develop the talent around them.  I will admit...G. Lewis, R. Brown, T. Pinkston, J. Thrash, F. Mitchell  weren't ideal in the early 2000s.  He got TO and helped sabotage that situation.  His ego got in the way.

- Guy is the perpetual victim.  Always had excuses that pointed the finger at everyone, but himself.  For an "elite" FB player outside of the WR position, he had/has the thinnest skin.  He has little if any self awareness and just doesn't come off as that bright.  Evidence of that is all over his post career exploits.  It makes me cringe with people point out he has a communications degree from Syracuse.  He's awful in front of the camera or microphone and lacks creative or insightful analysis.  

- In two years he's going to be passed by other current players, pushing him down further all-time leaders list.  I think that's why we are hearing him chirp now.  

- Finally...if you have to tell people you're a HOFer, then you're not one.  He didn't pass the eye test, wasn't statistically great and continually came up short when it mattered.  His teams were favored in 4 of 5 NFC Championship games, and he made it to one SB.  He came up really small there, too.  I'll never forget before the half, he had Westbrook wide open, no defender within 5 yards in front of the end zone, over threw him by 10 yards for an easy INT before the half.  That was the game, they could have had the lead going into half.  As a QB they get all the credit when things are good, he just couldn't deal with other side of the coin.  

Edited May 27, 2019 by YodaMan79

[Chandler#81]

On 5/25/2019 at 4:03 AM, Chandler#81 said:

 

and countering this, Dan Fouts never played in a Super Bowl but was enshrined  his 1st year of eligibility. Playoffs/SBs/teammates are considered -don’t think they’re not, but it’s mainly Eye Test. Fouts passed the Eye Test as a threat to score on every drive. Donovan didn’t.

 

So, currently at 156-34, is it safe to say the ‘Nays’ have it? Anyone anticipating an 11th hour run for McNabb?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

.....irrespective of the McNabb debate, the shroud of secrecy as to how panelists voted is a sham....Thermal was forced to wait as punishment for not being a media darling.....same to a certain extent as far as Art Monk.....how about Jerry Kramer's wait?.....be it as it may, McNabb is oh fer three since becoming eligible in 2017...just a speculative hunch, but it has more to do to being marginal versus "punishment"....will he eventually get in?.......your call.........

[Captain Murica]

28 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

So, currently at 156-34, is it safe to say the ‘Nays’ have it? Anyone anticipating an 11th hour run for McNabb?

Just don’t tell titans fans... ?

[Albany,n.y.]

21 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

If Eli gets in McNabb should get in.  He was better.

Eli shouldn't get in, even with 2 rings.  Phil Simms has 1 ring & another where he was the starter most of the season before his injury and he'll never get in.  So it's not automatic just because he played in NY.  If Eli gets in it will be because of his last name-I hope the voters aren't that swayed by his name.  

For most of his career Eli has been mediocre.  The only thing he's got going for him is he's unflappable and may be one of the best clutch players of his era (obviously Brady dwarfs everyone else, although Eli beat him twice with the SB on the line).  The problem is that there were too many times when he was too far behind in the 4th quarter for his best attribute to matter.  

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, YodaMan79 said:

- A. Reid was passing the ball greater than 65% of the time, and his numbers are still not great.  He should be obligated to give A. Reid a portion of his future pension checks, he could have easily been another A. Smith without him.  How did he look outside of the Eagles organization?  He would only throw the ball if a receiver was wide open.  He did not throw receivers open or to spots.  This is primarily the reason his TD to INT ratio is 2 - 1.  He wouldn't pull the trigger. 

 

Agreed. Reid is underrated as both a coach and GM. IMO, he is a HOF coach and that is saying something considering he's only won one conference title game. And Smith at least played at a high level under two different coaches and teams in Harbough and Reid. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

22 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Eli shouldn't get in, even with 2 rings.  Phil Simms has 1 ring & another where he was the starter most of the season before his injury and he'll never get in.  So it's not automatic just because he played in NY.  If Eli gets in it will be because of his last name-I hope the voters aren't that swayed by his name.  

For most of his career Eli has been mediocre.  The only thing he's got going for him is he's unflappable and may be one of the best clutch players of his era (obviously Brady dwarfs everyone else, although Eli beat him twice with the SB on the line).  The problem is that there were too many times when he was too far behind in the 4th quarter for his best attribute to matter.  

 

 

I really, really, really don't want Eli in the HOF. That said, the voters are totally going to fall for his last name. The perfect comparison would be Joe Flacco if Flacco were to go on another epic Super Bowl run and win a second one with the Broncos. It would be a great story but he would still have no chance at the HOF. Eli is very similar to Flacco IMO but because of his name and perhaps city he plays for he is going to undeservedly get in.

[HardyBoy]

I really think people are minimizing how he helped to evolve football. He is the Cam Newton, Donte Culpepper, Josh Allen, etc. prototype. 

 

He was also able to become a pocket passer when he lost his elite athleticism in the second half of his career. Hopefully Josh Allen can mirror a lot of McNabb.

 

Also, interesting that both McNabb and Allen played basketball really well. Not sure what it means, but probably something.

[formerlyofCtown]

On 5/24/2019 at 5:31 PM, Mike in Horseheads said:

Sports Illustrated‏Verified account @SInow 7h7 hours ago

 

 

Donovan McNabb says he's a Hall of Famer http://go.si.com/z6N9n2f

 

 

Former NFL quarterback Donovan McNabb says he deserves to be wearing a gold jacket and be enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

McNabb made his argument to TMZ and focused his candidacy on one player.

“I’m not hesitating on that. I am a Hall of Famer. My numbers speak for themselves," McNabb said. "My numbers are better than Troy Aikman’s.

Minus the SBs and the fact that Aikman is overrated.

Edited May 26, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, YodaMan79 said:

 

- Finally...if you have to tell people you're a HOFer, then you're not one.   

 

 

So, TO is not a HOFer?

[YodaMan79]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

So, TO is not a HOFer?

He was being punished for not being liked.  He was also a finalist in his first year.  So yeah, anyone with a brain knew he was. 

[Darth Bill]

Sure, right after Ferguson and Bledsoe get in.

[H2o]

McNabb was a good, but not great QB. He played in a tough city and held up well all things considered. He had a lot of talent around him in those years. He puked from the pressure in the SB. Yes his team made it to 4 straight NFC title games and one SB, but he also had Andy Reid at the helm of those teams. Though he had a good career I can't say there is anything that really made him standout to make that career HOF worthy. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by H2o

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, YodaMan79 said:

He was being punished for not being liked.  He was also a finalist in his first year.  So yeah, anyone with a brain knew he was. 

 

 

I was quoting you saying that he wouldn't be because he was telling everyone he was a HOFer.

[Kirby Jackson]

I go back-and-forth on this. He’s the kind of guy that if he got in no one would blink at. Once he was in he’d be one of the guys that future HOFers pointed to as a reason for their candidacy. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I go back-and-forth on this. He’s the kind of guy that if he got in no one would blink at. Once he was in he’d be one of the guys that future HOFers pointed to as a reason for their candidacy. 

 

 

I agree. He is very close but ultimately you got to say no. He's literally missing like one additional footnote in his resume like one more super bowl appearance or one more season with 3500 yards and 90 QB Rating or a league MVP season.

 

But yeah, if you open it up for McNabb then guys like Romo, Stafford and even Bledsoe will come calling.

[row_33]

On 5/25/2019 at 1:29 PM, oldmanfan said:

Numbers are not the whole story.

 

apparently it is to millenial fans

 

and if you disagree the nicest response is that they will severely ridicule you....

 

i try to say it's okay, you really don't have much reason to worry how Sandy Koufax or Joe Namath stack up with all the new stats, unless you are making $100,000 a year from this analysis....

 

 

 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, YodaMan79 said:

He was being punished for not being liked.  He was also a finalist in his first year.  So yeah, anyone with a brain knew he was. 

 

basket cases and idiot children sometimes have to wait

 

media haters  are another category to wait, but sometimes you can't even do that to them (see Steve Carlton and Eddie Murray)

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

On 5/24/2019 at 5:41 PM, Albany,n.y. said:

Troy Aikman Super Bowl wins 3, Donovan McNabb Super Bowl wins 0

 

Another reason to never use QB stats when comparing careers.  

Aikman shouldnt be in the HOF.

[row_33]

19 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Aikman shouldnt be in the HOF.

 

Jim Kelly and Aikman are boosted by their playoff heroics, many dispute both of them.

 

I'm fine with both, not even 1% doubt.