Tony Pauline: 3 Horse Race for #9

[CookieG]

do like the WWE used to do.

 

Duke it out in a winner take all triple threat match.

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

 

I don't really see why Williams couldn't hypothetically start from Day 1 at OG.

I don’t really see why Williams couldn’t hypothetically start from Day 1 at LT.  We’re talking about being better than Dion Dawkins, not Jason Peters.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Bosa

Hockenson

[LSHMEAB]

I would be extremely disappointed if Jonah Williams was the pick.

 

This offensive line needs a MAULER, not a tactician. Despite the size of the FA acquisitions, each one of them(I believe) has been rated better in pass pro than inline run blocking.

 

Much rather have Taylor or even Dillard who at least projects as an LT.

59 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Some food for thought: 

 

Dillard: 

6-5

315

Hand: 10

Arm: 33 4/8

Wingspan: 80 3/8

40: 4.96

Bench: 24

Vert: 29

Broad: 118

3 cone: 7.44

20: 4.4

 

Williams: 

6-4 1/2

302

Hand: 10 1/8

Arms: 33 5/8

Wingspan: 81 6/8

40: 5.10

Bench: 23

Vert: 28

Broad: 100

3 cone: 8.01

20: 4.79

 

This certainly dispels the notion that Dillard has a length advantage, but he certainly has an athleticism advantage. I worry about Williams ability to block athletic edge rushers at LT.

[Midwest1981]

I don't see the poster's comment/post anymore but for the record, I don't think that he is attributing the statement that Ed Oliver complained during his Pro Day to the right person (if anyone even said it- I didn't personally come across it).  Brandt wasn't even at the Pro Day (as this quote implies), he has no other tweet re: Oliver's workout, and this single tweet is complimentary, not critical.

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Midwest1981

[Max Fischer]

39 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I would be extremely disappointed if Jonah Williams was the pick.

 

This offensive line needs a MAULER, not a tactician. Despite the size of the FA acquisitions, each one of them(I believe) has been rated better in pass pro than inline run blocking.

 

Much rather have Taylor or even Dillard who at least projects as an LT.

This certainly dispels the notion that Dillard has a length advantage, but he certainly has an athleticism advantage. I worry about Williams ability to block athletic edge rushers at LT.

 

This is the daily debate about Williams. I'd rather have a "technician" who is almost always in the right position, uses outstanding leverage to play far above his weight, consistently negates "long arms" with lightning quick hands and could likely play every position on the line.  Maulers can't maul if they don't have the proper feet, balance and football savvy (i.e. technique). 

[SoCal Deek]

Fake news! Everyone knows we’re going BPA. There cannot be three guys that are the ‘best’. ?

[LSHMEAB]

6 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

This is the daily debate about Williams. I'd rather have a "technician" who is almost always in the right position, uses outstanding leverage to play far above his weight, consistently negates "long arms" with lightning quick hands and could likely play every position on the line.  Maulers can't maul if they don't have the proper feet, balance and football savvy (i.e. technique). 

Fair points in the grand scheme of things. That being said, I don't believe he's athletic enough to play LT and I don't believe he's strong enough to push the LOS at guard. So we're essentially talking about a pass blocking guard IMO. Not quite sure I believe proper usage of leverage is enough to overcome the lack of raw power.

 

I simply don't view him as a top ten prospect.

[MrEpsYtown]

58 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I would be extremely disappointed if Jonah Williams was the pick.

 

This offensive line needs a MAULER, not a tactician. Despite the size of the FA acquisitions, each one of them(I believe) has been rated better in pass pro than inline run blocking.

 

Much rather have Taylor or even Dillard who at least projects as an LT.

This certainly dispels the notion that Dillard has a length advantage, but he certainly has an athleticism advantage. I worry about Williams ability to block athletic edge rushers at LT.

 

I think Williams is going to struggle with speed, and Dillard is really going to struggle with power rushers. They are flawed prospects and that is why you do not pick them in the top ten. I do like Williams as a guard or center. I do not like Dillard's game at all.  Dion Dawkins is a better tackle prospect than either in my opinion. 

 

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Fair points in the grand scheme of things. That being said, I don't believe he's athletic enough to play LT and I don't believe he's strong enough to push the LOS at guard. So we're essentially talking about a pass blocking guard IMO. Not quite sure I believe proper usage of leverage is enough to overcome the lack of raw power.

 

I simply don't view him as a top ten prospect.

 

Jonah is somewhere between Andy Levitre and Zach Martin imo

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by MrEpsYtown

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I think Williams is going to struggle with speed, and Dillard is really going to struggle with power rushers. They are flawed prospects and that is why you do not pick them in the top ten. I do like Williams as a guard or center. I do not like Dillard's game at all.  Dion Dawkins is a better tackle prospect than either in my opinion. 

Right. I don't believe either of these guys are worthy of a top ten pick, which is why I'm glad the Bills addressed OL in free agency. They didn't get stars, but they certainly upgraded what was a trainwreck. Just noting that I'd take Dillard over Williams if I had to choose so I differ with your opinion there. My full answer is neither. Taylor is the only guy I see with the upside you're looking for with a top ten pick, but he's "apparently" not on the Bills radar. You never know. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Doc]

I don't believe it.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

2 hours ago, chef4131 said:

based on comments made by Gil Brandt regarding Ed Oliver's pro day -if the report is accurate-I am re-thinking Oliver picked by Bills  doesn't seem like a player the Bills would want.

 

It was reported by Gil Brandt that Ed oliver was complaining during his pro day work outs 

 

He was? LOL!

 

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Dillard makes zero sense here. Terrible fit. I like Oliver and I can understand the idea of Williams. Dillard, no. 

 

Care to explain?

Edited April 11, 2019 by FeelingOnYouboty

[mjt328]

Very surprised to see O-Line still high on so many lists.

 

If we are going OT, does that mean we've already given up on Dion Dawkins playing that position?

If we are sliding Dawkins inside, that pretty much guarantees Wyatt Teller is a goner, right?  I mean we signed Spencer Long, Jon Feliciano and Quinton Spain already, and all would be worthy of fighting for the starting guard spots.

 

Who knows for sure what the Bills are thinking here... but I really believe actions speak louder than words. 

Their actions have been to sign SIX offensive linemen in free agency (all of whom are expected to compete for a starting spot).

Their actions have been to sign ONE defensive lineman in free agency (who has more experience as a SLB than as a DE).

 

[billspro]

Definitely not buying any of this information right now. Obviously they brought Oliver in for a visit so there is interest there.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Very surprised to see O-Line still high on so many lists.

 

If we are going OT, does that mean we've already given up on Dion Dawkins playing that position?

If we are sliding Dawkins inside, that pretty much guarantees Wyatt Teller is a goner, right?  I mean we signed Spencer Long, Jon Feliciano and Quinton Spain already, and all would be worthy of fighting for the starting guard spots.

 

Who knows for sure what the Bills are thinking here... but I really believe actions speak louder than words. 

Their actions have been to sign SIX offensive linemen in free agency (all of whom are expected to compete for a starting spot).

Their actions have been to sign ONE defensive lineman in free agency (who has more experience as a SLB than as a DE).

 

Again, I don't see them looking at LT because they're still looking to see if Dawkins regains his 2017 form and he can't play RT.  Nsekhe can play RT (or LT if Dawkins falters again) at a high level for a couple more years and you don't draft a RT (or OG, which Williams projects to) that high anyway.

[MrEpsYtown]

49 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

Care to explain?

 

Ive talked about it a lot on the board. I don't like the player and I don't like his fit in our offense. I think he can work for some of the teams in the league that embrace quick strike spread concepts. Dillard is not a good run blocker, and he does not have the length that people think he does. In fact, Dion Dawkins has more, as does Williams. I think he is Jake Fisher as a tackle prospect. The offense he played in hid his deficiencies really well. WSU offensive linemen often earn very high scores on PFF and often amount to nothing in the NFL. He is nothing like any of the linemen we brought in this off season. 

 

I think the guy who fits in best with what we want to do and has that nastiness is Dalton Risner. I really don't like any of the other offensive linemen in the first coulple of rounds. I like Ford a bit and Bradbury. But Risner is my favorite. I think Dillard is a trap. I think he's soft and very finesse and doesn't have the ability that he is rumored to have. 

[Foxx]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Just happy to see it's all trench guys

right. build the trenches, then up through the middle outward

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Ive talked about it a lot on the board. I don't like the player and I don't like his fit in our offense. I think he can work for some of the teams in the league that embrace quick strike spread concepts. Dillard is not a good run blocker, and he does not have the length that people think he does. In fact, Dion Dawkins has more, as does Williams. I think he is Jake Fisher as a tackle prospect. The offense he played in hid his deficiencies really well. WSU offensive linemen often earn very high scores on PFF and often amount to nothing in the NFL. He is nothing like any of the linemen we brought in this off season. 

 

I think the guy who fits in best with what we want to do and has that nastiness is Dalton Risner. I really don't like any of the other offensive linemen in the first coulple of rounds. I like Ford a bit and Bradbury. But Risner is my favorite. I think Dillard is a trap. I think he's soft and very finesse and doesn't have the ability that he is rumored to have. 

 

My son told me that the best DE Dillard faced this past year was someone who is projected to be a 4th round pick.  Can't remember the player.

[Pete]

That make me pray that Oliver is the pick at 9.  Offensive line doesn't make any sense IMO.  Right now we have a big hole at 3 tech and two backups battling out for starting TE.  Give me WR, TE, Edge, 3 tech, CB, LB, hell go RB at 9- but for the love of God- please no offensive line at 9

[MrEpsYtown]

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

My son told me that the best DE Dillard faced this past year was someone who is projected to be a 4th round pick.  Can't remember the player.

 

Thats an excellent point as well. I think a lot of his "grades" are misleading. He looks the part, but that is also misleading. 

[Pbomb]

4 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Dillard makes zero sense here. Terrible fit. I like Oliver and I can understand the idea of Williams. Dillard, no. 

So you can understand the idea of Williams but not not dillard , how is he a terrible fit 

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, Pbomb said:

So you can understand the idea of Williams but not not dillard , how is he a terrible fit 

 

Yep I understand the idea of drafting Williams and moving him to a guard spot if you think you are getting Zach Martin. I don't like it, but I understand the thinking. I explained above why I don't like Dillard and I don't think he's a first round prospect, and why I don't think he's a fit for our offense. SoI don't understand the interest.

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Yep I understand the idea of drafting Williams and moving him to a guard spot if you think you are getting Zach Martin. I don't like it, but I understand the thinking. I explained above why I don't like Dillard and I don't think he's a first round prospect, and why I don't think he's a fit for our offense. SoI don't understand the interest.

Zach Martin threw up 225 29 times compared to Williams 23 and I believe the raw strength gap is even greater than that differential depicts.

[whorlnut]

Here is the bottom line that cannot be disputed:

 

McD has done NOTHING this offseason to give Dion Dawkins a glowing endorsement as his left tackle. In fact, he’s left the door open quite a bit to improve at the position. That’s why I think Dillard and Williams are very much in play at 9. Dillard more so since he’s considered the best LT prospect in the draft. However, after hearing that the Bills like Williams as a LT, who really knows?

[Doc]

15 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yep I understand the idea of drafting Williams and moving him to a guard spot if you think you are getting Zach Martin. I don't like it, but I understand the thinking. I explained above why I don't like Dillard and I don't think he's a first round prospect, and why I don't think he's a fit for our offense. SoI don't understand the interest.

 

I wouldn't understand taking an OG at 9 unless he's the 2nd coming of Quinton Nelson.

[billsredneck1]

5 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Huh?  Why Williams I wonder?  With all the improvements we've made along the offensive line (especially the interior), wouldn't you think they'd want to draft a day 1 starter at 9 overall?  Maybe they truly view him as a LT?  I just don't see him being successful at either OT position due to lack of size/strength, but I'm certainly no expert.  Everything I'm reading lately has him slotted as an OG.  I've even heard C might be his best position in the NFL.  I can see Dillard and Oliver, but I can't imagine why they'd be considering Williams at 9.

i don't see williams at all. if for some reason oliver is gone, i can see a trade down where they have options between guys like wilkins, ferrell (sp?) or dillard. this would be their plan b  with their board.

 

they probably have a 100 situations planned out on who they can get where and what moves may give them extra options.  i know it's been going through my mind 24/7. 13 days...i will take a nap that day so in case the old lady gets yappin about the tv, i've got the bar picked out where i will be.

Edited April 11, 2019 by billsredneck1

[MrEpsYtown]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I wouldn't understand taking an OG at 9 unless he's the 2nd coming of Quinton Nelson.

 

Agreed. I would hate it actually, but I'd understand why they were thinking this way. For all of his faults, Williams is a good player. I'd hate drafting Dillard more. He is not a good player imo. He reminds me of Jonathan Martin. Charmin soft. I think all this interest in these tackles is BS to throw people off what they really want. I think they are trying to get people to think they are drafting a tackle at 9 so no one trades up to take they guy we really want. I do think they draft offensive linemen at some point, Nate Davis or something, but just don't see it at 9. 

[JaCrispy]

2 hours ago, billspro said:

Definitely not buying any of this information right now. Obviously they brought Oliver in for a visit so there is interest there.

I agree...if there is any truth to Oliver complaining, McD would be the first to know because he was right up in his grill the whole time, so I’m good if they decide to take him...I just don’t think he will last to pick 9.

[whorlnut]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Again, I don't see them looking at LT because they're still looking to see if Dawkins regains his 2017 form and he can't play RT.  Nsekhe can play RT (or LT if Dawkins falters again) at a high level for a couple more years and you don't draft a RT (or OG, which Williams projects to) that high anyway.

I don’t buy this at all. What if Dawkins doesn’t regain his 2017 form?  Then we don’t have a viable option. By drafting a tackle you are challenging Dawkins and at worst you have 2 elite linemen. You have to remember that McD is always preaching competition. 

[billsredneck1]

if i had to guess.....and maybe this deserves it's own thread, if i had to guess  players that we draft,  i would have to go with irv smith and risner.

i would have said oliver, but not sure if they can get him.( he could get snagged higher).

 

if i had to have a wish list....

oliver  future anchor

risner  future rt

irv smith  deep middle reliability

mike mc coy  future center if morse gets hurt

iabella groomed by beasley....which is why they signed him

kahlil hodge home grown...possible steal of the draft

bryce love ....give him a year to heal and we have another young shady

 

and hopefully land frank clark! 

Edited April 11, 2019 by billsredneck1

[Pete]

classic disinformation before draft

[Mojo44]

3 hours ago, Midwest1981 said:

I don't see the poster's comment/post anymore but for the record, I don't think that he is attributing the statement that Ed Oliver complained during his Pro Day to the right person (if anyone even said it- I didn't personally come across it).  Brandt wasn't even at the Pro Day (as this quote implies), he has no other tweet re: Oliver's workout, and this single tweet is complimentary, not critical.

 

 Just to piggyback on this, you may want to Google  Oliver’s pro day.By all accounts he blew everybody away! Now I’m thinking that it’s more likely than not he won’t even be there at number nine

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I don’t buy this at all. What if Dawkins doesn’t regain his 2017 form?  Then we don’t have a viable option. By drafting a tackle you are challenging Dawkins and at worst you have 2 elite linemen. You have to remember that McD is always preaching competition. 

 

Nsekhe will compete with Dawkins at LT, but again since Dawkins can't play on the right, they'll want him at LT and Nsekhe at RT.  If Dawkins looks bad, Nsekhe starts at LT, Waddle starts at RT, and Dawkins competes at LG going forward, and they draft a LT next year. 

[Mat68]

Gary, Sweat, Metcalf.  Its upside down season.

[OldTimer1960]

I am all for a “safe” pick at 9, but in spite of his collegiate success, I’m not sure that Jonah Williams is a safe pick.  By safe pick, I mean likely to be a good starter - maybe not great.

Edited April 11, 2019 by OldTimer1960

[DJB]

Has Pauline ever nailed anything Brandon Beane era? I'm curious because i dont know. 

 

Either way i take everything i hear from the media especially non Bills media with a huge grain of salt this close to the draft

Edited April 11, 2019 by DJB

[JaCrispy]

39 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

 Just to piggyback on this, you may want to Google  Oliver’s pro day.By all accounts he blew everybody away! Now I’m thinking that it’s more likely than not he won’t even be there at number nine

Agreed

[McBean]

7 hours ago, N.Y. Orangeman said:

FWIW...

 

https://bleav.com/podcast/who-will-the-new-york-jets-target/

8:45 mark

 

Pauline: Bills like Jonah Williams, Andre Dillard and Ed Oliver.

 

-Like Drew Sample at TE (4th)

 

All smoke.

 

Galko goes on radio last year running his mouth saying the Bills loved Josh Rosen.

 

Thank God he was dead wrong.

[RocCityRoller]

7 hours ago, blacklabel said:

I still can't see how they don't go DL with this class. Just seems to make sense but who knows at this point. Smokescreen season. They could be leaking info on certain players they "like" and hope that other teams drafting behind them might wanna jump up. Only two weeks to go. Do I dare check my phone for updates during my evening showing of Endgame??

pick a non DL in a weaker position in the first, and rely on depth at DL to scoop one up in the second.

[Dkollidas]

-I don’t know much about Pauline. But last year, the only quarterbacks I heard the Bills were actually high on, were Darnold & Allen. Turns out they took Allen. Part of that was probably because the Jets took Darnold at 3. Regardless, the Bills were high on those two. 

 

-This year, it seems like they’re really trying to build a bulldog mentality on their front line. Building this line up both in quality and depth, will give Allen and the offense more time to throw, better lanes for running, and as a result better success running play-action. 

 

-I believe running successful play-action will be the bread and butter of this offense. They’ll want to run a few plays that are the same concept from as many types of formations as possible. 

 

-I think Oliver is their top guy. His explosiveness could really disrupt opposing offenses. But if he’s gone (and I think he will be, he’s just too talented), Williams will be their pick. He’s got the experience, and he’s played at a big time program against some of the best collegiate talent in the country. He knows the offensive coordinator, and he’s got a nasty streak and a chip on his shoulder that the Bills are looking for. 

 

*If they do draft Williams rounds 2-4 will be spent getting the following, in no particular order;

 

Pass-catcher: Either a tight end or Receiver.

 

Defensive End: Hughes & Lawson could both be gone next year, and the pass rush last season did not have much teeth to it as it was.

 

Defensive Tackle: they’ll need a 3-technique to rotate with Jordan Phillips. 

 

*After that well see rounds 5-7 focus on the following:

 

Running back: They’ll get one late, probably someone who is a pass-catching option as well as a runner.

 

Linebacker: Build up depth behind Milano & Edmunds

 

Pass-Catcher: If they take a tight end early, they’ll take a receiver later, and Vice versa. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Dkollidas