Noah Fant - trade down and draft a difference maker

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I don't believe the Bills have ever had an athletically superior tight end. 

I would see Fant as great complement to Kroft (who I don't think much of at all) and Fisher(assuming he even makes the roster). Bills TE play has been so underwhelming for decades if not the entire history of the franchise. Hockenson is probably a better talent than Kroft but the skill set is too similar and the explosiveness is not the same as Fant.

I would like to see Beane drop down a few spots maybe even with more than one trade and take Fant around 15 -18. I think he could create mismatches all over the field.

For the record, I think the best chance to trade down is if there is an early run on QBs and Miami or Denver gets nervous they will be shut out. That said, if there is an early run on QBs I see the Bills staying at 9 and taking an elite defender.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Ethan in Portland

[WMDman]

Id only take Fant in the second

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 minutes ago, WMDman said:

Id only take Fant in the second

I've yet to see a mock where he has fallen out of the first round. But guys fall all the time for no reason. Would be great to get Oliver and Fant. Generational draft like 2018.

[YoloinOhio]

I like Fant but would not take him in the 1st. He doesn’t have great hands and I think he’s significantly less pro-ready than Hockenson. He’s a better athlete and faster but he’s not stepping in immediately ready to block at the Pro level. He has a lot of room to grow, and Nate Stanley struggled to throw the ball downfield consistently so i think he could be better utilized at the next level. He reminds me of Ebron. Which means he could go in the 1st, but i wouldn’t do it. 

 

He also had a bad day the one game Beane watched him live vs PSU. Fumbled and missed a huge assignment that led to an INT to lose game. 

 

He he has more “elite” traits than Hock but lacks polish - both are round 2 prospects imo who will go in 1st.

 

he could be the Bills version of Edmunds - very high Ceiling but somewhat of a project. If so, your scenario could certainly play out. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[thenorthremembers]

Haven't watched much film on him, but from what I've seen he is a good off the line receiving tight end.    But if I am drafting a tight end in the first two rounds I want a player who can be on the field on running downs as well.   Hock is probably the best all around tight end in the draft, but I still say his blocking is more desire than technique.  There are instances where he looks like he blocking while on ice skates.   Irv Smith is a great blocker, but he has suspect hands.   Again, I like Fant as a wideout just not sure he will a complete tight end in the league. 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, thenorthremembers said:

Haven't watched much film on him, but from what I've seen he is a good off the line receiving tight end.    But if I am drafting a tight end in the first two rounds I want a player who can be on the field on running downs as well.   Hock is probably the best all around tight end in the draft, but I still say his blocking is more desire than technique.  There are instances where he looks like he blocking while on ice skates.   Irv Smith is a great blocker, but he has suspect hands.   Again, I like Fant as a wideout just not sure he will a complete tight end in the league. 

Fant generally has his frame in the right area when blocking, so he shows potential there. But he’s not very big and depending on the matchup was unable to block the bigger, savvy defender. 

 

Fwiw this is the game the Bills watched live:

 

[thenorthremembers]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Fant generally has his frame in the right area when blocking, so he shows potential there. But he’s not very big and depending on the matchup was unable to block the bigger, savvy defender. 

Thank you for that.  I've watched a few games, but it seems like he was splitting out wide most of the time.   Didn't get to see him block the way I saw Hock.   Oddly enough I came away not all that impressed with Hock's blocking.  Like I said, he is tenacious, but I was confused because people were talking about what a great blocker he was.   Was much more impressed with Irv Smith.  The guy is a complete mack truck when it comes to blocking.   But then I watched him drop multiple passes in the three games I took in.

[Augie]

The beauty of filling so many holes in FA is.....we can wait to see which players fall and draft BPA. We don’t have to reach. Guys will fall, let’s see who it is and go for value. We will probably trade back, AND trade up, but do it for the guys you most believe in!  

 

 

.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Augie

[freddyjj]

Hockenson or Sternberger are my two favorites but don't see OBD using a #1 on TE unless it is a trade into back of Rd 1 to grab their targeted guy.,

[dpberr]

In the battle of Iowa TEs, you really do have to decide between the superior athlete (Fant) and the superior football player (Hockenson).

 

Personally, if I had to choose, I'd go with Hockenson because I think he will pick up the complexity of the plays, routes, blocking assignments, etc. faster than Fant will due to being the more experienced, well rounded football player.  Hockenson won't have the hesitation Fant likely will trying to figure it all out.  

 

I think the athlete vs. player question at TE is readily apparent when you look at an Eric Ebron vs. George Kittle.  Ebron is a superior athlete to Kittle but Kittle already knew how to run routes and catch passes when he entered the league.  Ebron had to learn how to do that at a professional level "in" the league.  

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Thank you for that.  I've watched a few games, but it seems like he was splitting out wide most of the time.   Didn't get to see him block the way I saw Hock.   Oddly enough I came away not all that impressed with Hock's blocking.  Like I said, he is tenacious, but I was confused because people were talking about what a great blocker he was.   Was much more impressed with Irv Smith.  The guy is a complete mack truck when it comes to blocking.   But then I watched him drop multiple passes in the three games I took in.

I do trust Daboll on the TE selection. Not only was he a NFL TE coach but he coached Irv Smith and coached against Sternberger, Mauta and Knox. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[Jay_Fixit]

I think Fant is a modern Eric Ebron. Lots of sizzle, but the steak is missing.

 

I don’t like receivers with average hands. It usually doesn’t work out well. Especially with a QB who throws lasers.

[BillsFan1988]

16 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Haven't watched much film on him, but from what I've seen he is a good off the line receiving tight end.    But if I am drafting a tight end in the first two rounds I want a player who can be on the field on running downs as well.   Hock is probably the best all around tight end in the draft, but I still say his blocking is more desire than technique.  There are instances where he looks like he blocking while on ice skates.   Irv Smith is a great blocker, but he has suspect hands.   Again, I like Fant as a wideout just not sure he will a complete tight end in the league. 

He does seem to lose balance at times but when his technique is right he can be a punisher . I've seen him pancake guys. Did u see the Iowa vs Mississippi state game he pancakes Sweat a couple of times. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Nah, rather trade back for Hockenson

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I think Fant is a modern Eric Ebron. Lots of sizzle, but the steak is missing.

 

I don’t like receivers with average hands. It usually doesn’t work out well. Especially with a QB who throws lasers.

He can be a body catcher but I did see him adjust to some poorly thrown balls. It’s hard to evaluate pass catchers in college sometimes because the offensive scheme is sometimes Limited due to QB

[DCbillsfan]

19 minutes ago, Augie said:

The beauty of filling so many holes n FA is.....we can wait to see which players fall and draft BPA. We don’t have to reach. Guys will fall, let’s see who it is and go for value. We will probably trade back, AND trade up, but do it for the guys you most believe in!  

If the Bills stay at 9, I really want the Bills to draft a guy who is "plug and play" in the first round.  Hopefully that is part of their definition of BPA.

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by DCbillsfan

[RyanC883]

17 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I do trust Daboll on the TE selection. Not only was he a NFL TE coach but he coached Irv Smith and coached against Sternberger, Mauta and Knox. 

 

I could see Irv Smith being the guy.  

 

Are there any other TE's from Bama that may go UDFA.  Perhaps a Foster type TE??!!

12 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I think Fant is a modern Eric Ebron. Lots of sizzle, but the steak is missing.

 

I don’t like receivers with average hands. It usually doesn’t work out well. Especially with a QB who throws lasers.

 

agree with everything here.  Esp. the hands comment.   Not taking a 1st or 2nd round pick on an "athlete" at WR or TE with "questionable" hands.  

[Logic]

49 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I don't believe the Bills have ever had an athletically superior tight end. 

 

You must have missed the Shawn Nelson era! 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I could see Irv Smith being the guy.  

 

Are there any other TE's from Bama that may go UDFA.  Perhaps a Foster type TE??!!

 

agree with everything here.  Esp. the hands comment.   Not taking a 1st or 2nd round pick on an "athlete" at WR or TE with "questionable" hands.  

None at TE but G Ross Pierschbacher is under the radar and someone I think I could see them taking 

[Da webster guy]

Well, both these Iowa guys are probably going to go in the first round, which has to be a record that might never get broken again.  Two TE's from the same team NFL 1st rounders.  Pretty wild.

 

Hock seems like a perfect McD guy.  Busts his ass, plays to the whistle, humble etc.

 

The question is, how much is that Patriots2 game sticking in Beane's mind when we sat there and hopelessly gave up 6 ypc and nearly 300 yards to Sony Michel and co.   When you can't stop the run even when you know it's coming, it's embarrassing to everyone in the organization and the fans.   I know I can't get over that game, and remember thinking we had better fix this in the draft or it's gonna keep happening.   

 

With that in mind, does a TE in the first make sense with some major run stoppers on the board?   I want a stud TE too, but I look at guys like OJ Howard (went 19th)  and Ebron (10th overall) and can't help but wonder how many games these guys have won for their teams.  Would they burn a 1st rounder on them again in a re draft?   

 

I think Daboll will be the key here.  For some reason I see him preferring four pure receivers out there and a blocking TE on empty sets, which he seemed to use more and more as the season went on, vs a receiving TE and 3 WR's.  In that case I think Beaner will lean a little toward DL in the first and I'm convinced he's taking OT Risner in the 2nd.   

 

(I've never made a single draft prediction correctly tho.   Leave that to Astro.)

[freddyjj]

11 minutes ago, Logic said:

You must have missed the Shawn Nelson era! 

Keith McKeller was an ex Bball player form Jacksonville St in SC - a D2 school- that was a mismatch in the Bills SB era.  Was never the featured TE as Metzalaars was here.

 

And Lonnie Johnson was a looks like Tarzan plays like Jane - catch out how unaware he was in this fake punt play - Darren Sharper almost killed him!  LOL

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by freddyjj

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, BillsFan1988 said:

He does seem to lose balance at times but when his technique is right he can be a punisher . I've seen him pancake guys. Did u see the Iowa vs Mississippi state game he pancakes Sweat a couple of times. 

I did watch that one.   I dont recall the blocks.  My main take away from that game was how incredibly fast the Miss. State defense looked.  I came away really impressed with their speed, in particular Jonathan Abram and Jeffery Simmons.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

32 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Well, both these Iowa guys are probably going to go in the first round, which has to be a record that might never get broken again.  Two TE's from the same team NFL 1st rounders.  Pretty wild.

 

Hock seems like a perfect McD guy.  Busts his ass, plays to the whistle, humble etc.

 

The question is, how much is that Patriots2 game sticking in Beane's mind when we sat there and hopelessly gave up 6 ypc and nearly 300 yards to Sony Michel and co.   When you can't stop the run even when you know it's coming, it's embarrassing to everyone in the organization and the fans.   I know I can't get over that game, and remember thinking we had better fix this in the draft or it's gonna keep happening.   

 

With that in mind, does a TE in the first make sense with some major run stoppers on the board?   I want a stud TE too, but I look at guys like OJ Howard (went 19th)  and Ebron (10th overall) and can't help but wonder how many games these guys have won for their teams.  Would they burn a 1st rounder on them again in a re draft?   

 

I think Daboll will be the key here.  For some reason I see him preferring four pure receivers out there and a blocking TE on empty sets, which he seemed to use more and more as the season went on, vs a receiving TE and 3 WR's.  In that case I think Beaner will lean a little toward DL in the first and I'm convinced he's taking OT Risner in the 2nd.   

 

(I've never made a single draft prediction correctly tho.   Leave that to Astro.)

Howard is on his way to being a star. Ebron is a bust for his draft position no doubt.

I want mismatches.  Guys that are simply physically superior to their opponent. The Bills have so precious few of those type of players. 

But I agree with most not at #9 with elite defenders on the board.

[White Linen]

I think Kroft is going to exceed expectations.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by White Linen

[njbuff]

The draft is still freaking four weeks away.

 

Longest wait ever between FA and the draft.

[Jay_Fixit]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He can be a body catcher but I did see him adjust to some poorly thrown balls. It’s hard to evaluate pass catchers in college sometimes because the offensive scheme is sometimes Limited due to QB

Nothing I dislike more than a body catcher. Except maybe a well done steak.

[KD in CA]

Drafting a TE in the first round is not for the Fant of heart.

[NewEra]

We need guys that can catch Josh Allen’s passes.  I see Fant being a failure in that regard.  Great speed is useless if you can’t catch the howizers that will be flying his way.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I've yet to see a mock where he has fallen out of the first round. But guys fall all the time for no reason. Would be great to get Oliver and Fant. Generational draft like 2018.

 

Its not so much that players "fall"...its that mocks are worthless.  Media, fans, etc have no idea how a team grades these players for BPA.  BPA is not based on Kipers rankings.  Teams wont even have certain players on their board at all and have other players higher up based on how they feel players fit into their system, scheme, team, culture, etc.  

 

Fant is one of those guys who could go anywhere in the first or 2nd round and will just depend on how teams grade their BPA based on their own needs and plans.  If at least 2 teams prioritize the TE positions, he will be gone first round as TJ is close to a lock first round IMO.  Fant should be the 2nd TE off the board and could even go ahead of TJ if someone prefers his speed.  But TE is one of those positions you just don't know how a team is going grade that desire when making their first round board.  

 

I do think he has a very good shot to go first round and I would be honestly be SHOCKED if he made it past the Raiders after losing Cook.  They have 2 first round picks late, so I do agree that its pretty safe to say he will be a first round pick.  Then again, the Raiders never seem to do what us on the outside think makes sense for them, so who knows.  

[WideNine]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I don't believe the Bills have ever had an athletically superior tight end. 

I would see Fant as great complement to Kroft (who I don't think much of at all) and Fisher(assuming he even makes the roster). Bills TE play has been so underwhelming for decades if not the entire history of the franchise. Hockenson is probably a better talent than Kroft but the skill set is too similar and the explosiveness is not the same as Fant.

I would like to see Beane drop down a few spots maybe even with more than one trade and take Fant around 15 -18. I think he could create mismatches all over the field.

For the record, I think the best chance to trade down is if there is an early run on QBs and Miami or Denver gets nervous they will be shut out. That said, if there is an early run on QBs I see the Bills staying at 9 and taking an elite defender.

 

Athletically gifted, questionable hands and concentration lapses, more a flex option TE in the mold of Croom position-wise.

 

For a high draft I want a 3 down TE the Bills can use with any package and one that can catch and is also an above average blocker.

 

That ain't Fant....not yet, maybe never. I envision him as a project; Someone who will make some amazing plays, but have plenty of wtf moments.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by WideNine

[Iamkrgr]

I like Fant at 40 a lot better than I like Hockenson at 9. 

[billsredneck1]

5 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I could see Irv Smith being the guy.  

 

Are there any other TE's from Bama that may go UDFA.  Perhaps a Foster type TE??!!

 

agree with everything here.  Esp. the hands comment.   Not taking a 1st or 2nd round pick on an "athlete" at WR or TE with "questionable" hands.  

irv is that guy.  he'll be that slippery deep middle guy with chris hogan reliability....kinda like nick oleary....ahhh nevermind...(still bent about that)

 

he may not be the hock kind of blocker, but that's why they got fisher.

Edited March 29, 2019 by billsredneck1

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

irv is that guy.  he'll be that slippery deep middle guy with chris hogan reliability....kinda like nick oleary....ahhh nevermind...(still bent about that)

 

he may not be the hock kind of blocker, but that's why they got fisher.

I like Irv Smith a lot. He’s a playmaker. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[billsredneck1]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

I like Irv Smith a lot. He’s a playmaker. 

given his pedigree and history with dabol, he's gonna be a bill.  it's just a matter of where they draft him. wallace and foster make him 2 for 2 so, i'm would trust him ..

[Virgil]

I’ve seen multiple mocks where he goes ahead of Hock.

 

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

6 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I've yet to see a mock where he has fallen out of the first round. But guys fall all the time for no reason. Would be great to get Oliver and Fant. Generational draft like 2018.

Oliver AND Fant??? ... Perhaps work something out with Sherlock Homes for that

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, billsredneck1 said:

irv is that guy.  he'll be that slippery deep middle guy with chris hogan reliability....kinda like nick oleary....ahhh nevermind...(still bent about that)

 

he may not be the hock kind of blocker, but that's why they got fisher.

 

I just don't see Irv Smith's size creating mismatches at the NFL level.

 

Several of his profiles on the internet list him as 6'4", but he measured in at the combine at 6'2" 240 and change.

 

Think he had decent speed in the 40 - same as Oliver who is 6'5" and a bit heavier, smallest hands....

 

I don't know. I don't see the ability to be that guy who can block and run routes. There may also be a lot of NFL linebackers and safeties who will be able to hang with him speed and size-wise and out-compete in space.

 

Could be wrong, but think of him only as a flex option tight end for use just as a receiving option...which may be just what a team needs.

 

If not Hock, I like Oliver and Warring for their upside.

 

Not knocking how productive he was for Bama, just don't see as many mismatches at the pro level. More a big slot guy with above average hands.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by WideNine

[Spiderweb]

14 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I don't believe the Bills have ever had an athletically superior tight end. 

I would see Fant as great complement to Kroft (who I don't think much of at all) and Fisher(assuming he even makes the roster). Bills TE play has been so underwhelming for decades if not the entire history of the franchise. Hockenson is probably a better talent than Kroft but the skill set is too similar and the explosiveness is not the same as Fant.

I would like to see Beane drop down a few spots maybe even with more than one trade and take Fant around 15 -18. I think he could create mismatches all over the field.

For the record, I think the best chance to trade down is if there is an early run on QBs and Miami or Denver gets nervous they will be shut out. That said, if there is an early run on QBs I see the Bills staying at 9 and taking an elite defender.

Tony Hunter, who was the Bills first round draft choose picked a couple puck ahead or Kelly was supposed to being that to the Bills, but alas......

 

[Inigo Montoya]

 

I could see the Bills grabbing Hockenson at 9.  In the recent owner's meetings they interviewed McDermott and he talked about what a huge part of the offense Greg Olsen was in Carolina and how much he helped  being a security blanket for Cam Newton.  He said Olsen was automatic on those 3rd and 5 situations and kept the chains moving.  Said they didn't have a true WR1 but it didn't matter because Olsen filled that gap.

 

I think Beane and McDermott understand the future success of their tenure with Buffalo all depends on Allen developing into a true franchise QB.  I think that gives Hock the edge at #9.  Allen will have improved skill players around him after this free agency period, but he still does not have a true WR1 or some other go-to guy on the offense to help him continue to develop.  Imagine a Kelce, Gronk, Ertz, or Kittle on our roster?   If McBeane sees Hockenson in that same vein, I think Hockenson is eating wings with blue cheese on April 26th.  

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Inigo Montoya

[billsredneck1]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

I just don't see Irv Smith's size creating mismatches at the NFL level.

 

Several of his profiles on the internet list him as 6'4", but he measured in at the combine at 6'2" 240 and change.

 

Think he had decent speed in the 40 - same as Oliver who is 6'5" and a bit heavier, smallest hands....

 

I don't know. I don't see the ability to be that guy who can block and run routes. There may also be a lot of NFL linebackers and safeties who will be able to hang with him speed and size-wise and out-compete in space.

 

Could be wrong, but think of him only as a flex option tight end for use just as a receiving option...which may be just what a team needs.

 

If not Hock, I like Oliver and Warring for their upside.

 

Not knocking how productive he was for Bama, just don't see as many mismatches at the pro level. More a big slot guy with above average hands.

 

 

i get it....i want oliver @9 if that goes that way, but i just can't see taking hock that high. i still got eric ebron syndrome....and all the others. could hock be a gronk? i suppose,

but making a kickass line and pass rush is why we went after all the fa's...so we can do that. we got our lee smith in fisher. tyler kroft is a good te and croom is family?