New rule to replace onside kick?

[Mij yllek]

From CBS Sports...what thinketh thou you?

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-owners-will-vote-on-wild-fourth-quarter-rule-change-that-competition-committee-seems-to-like/

Edited March 24, 2019 by Mij yllek

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I wish they would just bring regular kick offs back and leave it alone. It’s one of the most exciting plays in the game when it’s done correctly and it was responsible for some of the greatest plays in nfl history. Don’t touch the onside kicks and don’t keep trying to take away the kick off. These guys know the risk when they sign up. Play football or don’t. Stop trying to make it an arcade game. Bring the kickoff back. Make football physical again

[klos63]

2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I wish they would just bring regular kick offs back and leave it alone. It’s one of the most exciting plays in the game when it’s done correctly and it was responsible for some of the greatest plays in nfl history. Don’t touch the onside kicks and don’t keep trying to take away the kick off. These guys know the risk when they sign up. Play football or don’t. Stop trying to make it an arcade game. Bring the kickoff back. Make football physical again

I just despise that rationale.  They take a career threatening risk because if they want a chance to make the team, they will do it. Doesn't mean it's fair or right.  Reasonable people don't want players risking serious injury for their entertainment. I know it's a physical game, I have no issues trying to make the game safer.

If you think football isn't physical, you have some major issues. You want to lose half your team with blown out knees throughout the season?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

5 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I just despise that rationale.  They take a career threatening risk because if they want a chance to make the team, they will do it. Doesn't mean it's fair or right.  Reasonable people don't want players risking serious injury for their entertainment. I know it's a physical game, I have no issues trying to make the game safer.

If you think football isn't physical, you have some major issues. You want to lose half your team with blown out knees throughout the season?

Lose half your team with blown out knees because of kickoffs? The play that has been in the game forever but only recently has become an “issue?” The rationale you despise is simply accurate. You play the game because you want to. You take it for what it is with all the inherent risks. Kickoffs are part of the game. So are injuries. If you don’t want to play, don’t play. Racecar drivers realize every time they strap in, they could die. Same with bull riders...They still do it. And they aren’t turning around suing people when they run out of money.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[Buffalo_Gal]

If you have been watching the AAF, the 4th and 12 - instead of the onside kick - is truly an exciting option. Last year's onside kick rule change made it nearly impossible to recover an onside kick in the NFL, at least the proposed 4th and 15 gives a chance of a recovery. 

[klos63]

21 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Lose half your team with blown out knees because of kickoffs? The play that has been in the game forever but only recently has become an “issue?” The rationale you despise is simply accurate. You play the game because you want to. You take it for what it is with all the inherent risks. Kickoffs are part of the game. So are injuries. If you don’t want to play, don’t play. Racecar drivers realize every time they strap in, they could die. Same with bull riders...They still do it. And they aren’t turning around suing people when they run out of money.

Race cars are much safer now than in the past, because those is charge thought the fans would rather have drivers alive than dead . Bull riders are just plain stupid so who cares.  Not sure the point you're trying to make about lawsuits.

I'm sure the players are still willing to risk injury, they don't have much of a choice if the want to make it in the league, but the powers that be are smarter than some fans and realize having star players on the field is a better product than having them with blown out knees or concussions.

19 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

If you have been watching the AAF, the 4th and 12 - instead of the onside kick - is truly an exciting option. Last year's onside kick rule change made it nearly impossible to recover an onside kick in the NFL, at least the proposed 4th and 15 gives a chance of a recovery. 

How often are teams trying the 4th and 12? Only late in the game?

[Buffalo_Gal]

20 minutes ago, klos63 said:

 

How often are teams trying the 4th and 12? Only late in the game?

 

Not that often. It is a 4th and 12 from your own 28 so the stakes are high. I've only seen them attempted late in the game when a team is down by one score.

 

If a team is down by more than 17 points or more,  or there is less than 5 minutes left in the game, the trailing team can attempt the "Onside conversion".

[PetermansRedemption]

Love the alternative to an onside. But one thing stuck out to me “The play could be attempted after any score, including a touchdown or a field goal. A team could also attempt the fourth-and-15 after giving up a safety.” 

 

Why on earth would a team that just gave up a safety have an option of performing an onside conversion. That’s just plain stupid. 

[Zerovoltz]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

If you have been watching the AAF, the 4th and 12 - instead of the onside kick - is truly an exciting option. Last year's onside kick rule change made it nearly impossible to recover an onside kick in the NFL, at least the proposed 4th and 15 gives a chance of a recovery. 

 

This would benefit my team (the Cheifs) SUBSTANTIALLY....and I still think it's a horrible idea.  If your team has proven itself over the course of 59 minutes or so in an NFL game, it SHOULD BE VERY HARD for the other team to win.  Onside kick recoveries are VERY HARD.  so be it.  What isn't very hard for a team like the Chiefs...is to ask Pat Mahomes to complete a 15 yard pass?  With Andy Ried?  They'd have 3 or 4 of these drawn up and practiced just for this occasion...and they'd convert this MOST OF THE TIME.  If your team has done enough to hold a team like the Chiefs and Mahomes down for 59 minutes and you are on the cusp of victory...do you really want to give the Chiefs an option to score 14 points in 1 minute to wipe out everything you did? 

 

Football is fun enough, enteraining enough, high scoring enough and fair enough as it is.  we don't need this.

[Warcodered]

3 hours ago, Bills2ref said:

Love the alternative to an onside. But one thing stuck out to me “The play could be attempted after any score, including a touchdown or a field goal. A team could also attempt the fourth-and-15 after giving up a safety.” 

 

Why on earth would a team that just gave up a safety have an option of performing an onside conversion. That’s just plain stupid. 

I think you might be looking at it backwards. If the score was tied and then you suddenly give up a safety and are behind by two late in the game you might want to try this instead of just giving the other team the ball.

7 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

This would benefit my team (the Cheifs) SUBSTANTIALLY....and I still think it's a horrible idea.  If your team has proven itself over the course of 59 minutes or so in an NFL game, it SHOULD BE VERY HARD for the other team to win.  Onside kick recoveries are VERY HARD.  so be it.  What isn't very hard for a team like the Chiefs...is to ask Pat Mahomes to complete a 15 yard pass?  With Andy Ried?  They'd have 3 or 4 of these drawn up and practiced just for this occasion...and they'd convert this MOST OF THE TIME.  If your team has done enough to hold a team like the Chiefs and Mahomes down for 59 minutes and you are on the cusp of victory...do you really want to give the Chiefs an option to score 14 points in 1 minute to wipe out everything you did? 

 

Football is fun enough, enteraining enough, high scoring enough and fair enough as it is.  we don't need this.

If a team in a game can get 15 yards on a single down at will then that game was going to be a horribly one sided affair anyway. I mean seriously think about it if you screw up on this the other team is in immediate field goal range.

[BarleyNY]

The onside kick has become the worst play in the NFL.  I’m on board with the newly proposed rule.  Safer and more exciting.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I think you might be looking at it backwards. If the score was tied and then you suddenly give up a safety and are behind by two late in the game you might want to try this instead of just giving the other team the ball.

It’s a darn good sight Wrecks Ryan got out of football coaching.  Too much thinking about options as such, and his head would explode.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

The onside kick has become the worst play in the NFL.  I’m on board with the newly proposed rule.  Safer and more exciting.  

 

It's only the worst play in the NFL because of rule changes made to make it "safer."

[Matt_In_NH]

I guess I am ok with it but it will once again favor teams with great qb’s.  The most important position gets more important. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

It's only the worst play in the NFL because of rule changes made to make it "safer."

 

You can remove those quotes.  The new KO rules have actually made that play safer.  So you got a better idea?

Edited March 24, 2019 by BarleyNY

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

 

You can remove those quotes.  The new KO rules have actually made that play safer.  So you got a better idea?

 

Yeah, quit handringing over safety and play football.

[CSBill]

10 hours ago, Mij yllek said:

From CBS Sports...what thinketh thou you?

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-owners-will-vote-on-wild-fourth-quarter-rule-change-that-competition-committee-seems-to-like/

 

I like it. For safety reasons, the NFL cannot go back to the old rule--they would open themselves up to ridiculous liability. The rule as it is now is not working, gives almost no hope. This new idea gives the offense a fighting chance, and the fact that the old (new) onside kick is still an option, is good.

 

Go for it! Literally and literally!

[BarleyNY]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Yeah, quit handringing over safety and play football.

 

I’m pretty sure a 4th and 15 is football. Why disregard safety?  Do you advocate disregarding safety precautions in other industries?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

 

I’m pretty sure a 4th and 15 is football. Why disregard safety?  Do you advocate disregarding safety precautions in other industries?

 

It's FOOTBALL. it's violent by design, and the players are paid handsomely to take that risk.

[CSBill]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Yeah, quit handringing over safety and play football.

 

Well, in the day and age we live, that is no longer an option. It's also the reason you see foam padding at the playground now, and why my grandchildren will never know what a teeter-totter is. The world changes, all have to adapt, that's what the NFL is doing.

[BarleyNY]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

It's FOOTBALL. it's violent by design, and the players are paid handsomely to take that risk.

 

Oh.  I see.  It’s the money they make (although not really special teams players).  That’s a sad, small mentality. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

19 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Oh.  I see.  It’s the money they make (although not really special teams players).  That’s a sad, small mentality. 

 

Excuse me while I out on shades to keep from being blinded by the radiant virtue of this response.

[eball]

I'm totally down with this as a rule change.  Would be very exciting.

[SoCal Deek]

I was watching the European rugby tournament the other day. (I’ll still never be able to figure out the rules!) Those Guys are huge and they’re playing in nothing more than a T-shirt and shorts ...yet there isn’t all this talk to water down the sport. This is about fundamentals. If NFL players are getting injured it’s because they’re choosing poor tackling technique or being taught it by lazy coaches.

[Orlando Tim]

52 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Yeah, quit handringing over safety and play football.

Most kickoffs went for touchbacks and most onside kicks failed prior to last year- so the safety issue vs comparative excitement has to be looked at with that in mind. I am good with new rules and would like kickoffs gone since if is usually commercial timeout, kickoff for touchback, commercial- it is 5 minutes with one play.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

11 hours ago, Mij yllek said:

From CBS Sports...what thinketh thou you?

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-owners-will-vote-on-wild-fourth-quarter-rule-change-that-competition-committee-seems-to-like/

The thing about the onside kick is that it's a play that can be used at any time, by either team during a game.  The rule here is 4th q specific, one time only and while obviously potentially exciting, there is a downside.  

 

"Let 'em play.".

"Good no call."

"Wow, a lot of contact there.". 

 

It seems to me the NFL struggles with consistency on passing plays to begin with, and who what why they call form game to game.  At a critical moment in the game, with the onside kick the judgement call is removed (mostly)  and clarity is provided to the fan. 

 

If the improved onside kick rule results in less than a 10% conversion rate, that is the way the gods of football intended it to be.

 

 

 

[machine gun kelly]

The AAF is a great testing ground for new rules.  I love the AAF eye in the sky, and televising it.  If the NFL doesn’t comply, they are going to look like they are hiding something.  Their games are limited to 2.5 hours so you can’t say it will take longer.  

 

If they we t for the 4th and 12, I’m fine with it, but only if the whole game.  Having a different rule for the 4 th qarter is wrong.  They should also still give the option of an on side kick.  Give the losing team options.  It won’t fly though.

[Chicken Boo]

12 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Make football physical again

 

Football will never NOT be physical.

 

Some of these rule changes are an effort to prevent an actual death from happening on the field of play.

 

For size comparison...

 

Aaron Maybin 6'4" 238lbs

Lawrence Taylor 6'3" 238lbs

 

What cut it back in the 80s and 90s ain't cutting it today.

[mikemac2001]

I’d prefer a 4th and 20 or 25 make it more challenging 15 yards is not that hard 

[machine gun kelly]

Hey let’s go back to the Teddy Roosevelt days where 24 guys were killed in games.  It was interesting the 100 years of football on NFLN.  I’m glad we’re trying to make the game as safe as possible while still fun.

[Real McClappy]

Just god awful 

[bigK14094]

Football morphing into an unrecognizeable sport.  Soon...a three point shot.

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

It's FOOTBALL. it's violent by design, and the players are paid handsomely to take that risk.

 

So for sports entertainment, do you draw the line anywhere on safety? 

 

Or what about the participants drawing the line? Do they not get that right?

[klos63]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was watching the European rugby tournament the other day. (I’ll still never be able to figure out the rules!) Those Guys are huge and they’re playing in nothing more than a T-shirt and shorts ...yet there isn’t all this talk to water down the sport. This is about fundamentals. If NFL players are getting injured it’s because they’re choosing poor tackling technique or being taught it by lazy coaches.

Football and rugby are two totally different sports with differnent rules being played differently. Why would you compare the two?  Do you see any rugby players getting blind sided by a 220 lb defensive back going full speed after catching a pass?

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Take away the cups and supporters?  That might slow everyone down.

?

How about a rugby scrum to determine possession after a score?

 

[Pete]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was watching the European rugby tournament the other day. (I’ll still never be able to figure out the rules!) Those Guys are huge and they’re playing in nothing more than a T-shirt and shorts ...yet there isn’t all this talk to water down the sport. This is about fundamentals. If NFL players are getting injured it’s because they’re choosing poor tackling technique or being taught it by lazy coaches.

I always say that if we truly want to get rid of head trauma- minimal pads and no head gear.    There would still be big hits(not as big) and the game would be faster and safer.

The nfl is elite athletic warriors.  No helmet can be designed to prevent a brain slamming against its skull

[row_33]

I’ve lost all interest in college hoops now, I guess the NFL cannot be too far away from zero interest the way things are heading 

 

 

[Steve O]

11 hours ago, Bills2ref said:

Love the alternative to an onside. But one thing stuck out to me “The play could be attempted after any score, including a touchdown or a field goal. A team could also attempt the fourth-and-15 after giving up a safety.” 

 

Why on earth would a team that just gave up a safety have an option of performing an onside conversion. That’s just plain stupid. 

Um...you do know that a team can on-sides kick now after safety don't you?

2 hours ago, mikemac2001 said:

I’d prefer a 4th and 20 or 25 make it more challenging 15 yards is not that hard 

I'm thinking 4th and 30 but I'd be okay with 25. How many times do the bills give up first downs on 3rd or 4th and 15 through the years...way too many in my opinion.

[Steve O]

46 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Take away the cups and supporters?  That might slow everyone down.

?

How about a rugby scrum to determine possession after a score?

 

Not after every score but certainly a good idea to replace the overtime coin flip with this.

[Steve Billieve]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was watching the European rugby tournament the other day. (I’ll still never be able to figure out the rules!) Those Guys are huge and they’re playing in nothing more than a T-shirt and shorts ...yet there isn’t all this talk to water down the sport. This is about fundamentals. If NFL players are getting injured it’s because they’re choosing poor tackling technique or being taught it by lazy coaches.

 

I'm sure it's not at all related to the hard shell we wrap around the players.