Calling it now: Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster.

[HOUSE]

Zay Jones isn't going anywhere. Played the entire rookie season with a separated shoulder, did the best possible job with a rookie QB.

 

He is exactly the type of player to move on to another team then burn the Bills BIG TIME.

 

There is always the chance he could be traded but I find that unlikely

[Rebel101]

On 2/27/2019 at 3:46 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

I could be wrong, but this is just what I believe based on the additions I expect Beane to make in the WR room.  I have no issues if others don't agree, just my opinion on the matter, nothing more.  

 

I have consistently said this all off season, and McDermott just said something again that enforces that belief.  I think they see how the Rams cleared out their WR room and so did the Bears and in both cases their young QB's took big strides as passers.  Eagles did the same for Wentz too.  

 

"We're looking for guys that can get open and catch the ball."  Yes, that is an obvious trait for any WR, but also its telling that he and Beane keep making these comments given the struggles all year, including Zay, to do these very basic things.  

 

I think the WR room will be crowded once free agency and the draft is over (likely 2 to 3 additions) and Zay is going to be someone who has to really impress in camp to make this roster.   Right now, there is not one part of being a wide receiver that Zay does particularly well outside of his reported good work ethic.  

 

1. Hands:  Struggles catching the ball.  Makes easy catches look hard and drops too many passes.
2. Separation:  Has struggled to get separation, especially playing on the outside.  
3. Route Running:  Part of his issue with getting separation is his inconsistent route running.
4. Speed:  He has average speed.  He is fast enough to play in the league, but to be consistent with his speed he needs to be a good route runner.  
5. Physicality:  He is easily man handled by physical corners.  Games like the Lions and Pats this year he was dominated physically for example.  
6. Contested Catches:  One of the weakest part of his game.
7. Catch Radius:  Very limited mostly due to his inconsistent hands and lack of physicality.  

 

Foster:  Penciled in as a projected #2 WR.  However, if we bring in a potential starter in FA and also draft one early, then Foster is no lock for #2 and could be used more out of the slot or as a deep threat.  Additionally, if we draft say Metcalf or make a splashy trade for someone like Brown (less likely), then Duke could make a real challenge for #2 as a big catch radius compliment to a #1 who poses a real deep threat opposite him. 

 

Duke:  He has to prove himself in the NFL, I get that.  But if we take an honest assessment of him, his issues were never talent related.  He isn't a speed burner, but he has a big catch radius, runs good routes, and has great hands.  He could legit compete for the #2 opposite a big play #1.  Even if not a #2, its more than reasonable he has a legit shot to make this team and compete for minutes.  

 

Zay:  Best suited for the slot, however his lack of consistent hands and his issues with separation make his spot there vulnerable.  If our top 2 WR's this next season dont include Foster, then I can easily see Foster challenging to play in the slot, and he already has surpassed Zay.  

 

We are adding at least 2 additonal WR's (and maybe 3) this offseason expected to start or compete to start to go along with the 3 guys already here.  With McD and Beanes consistent comments about getting open and catching the ball, I think Zay is in trouble and will be a training camp or preseason trade for a 4th round or conditional 5th round pick.  

Year 3 is usually the year receivers finally transition to the NFL game. I don’t think McDermott cuts a player he drafted before year 3 especially after Zay did show improvement from season 1. Plus I’ve heard McDermott say Zay Jones is one of the hardest workers on the team. He doesn’t get cut. If we keep Zay Foster Brown n Beasley. That is a formidable WR corps and we can really spread the field.

[racketmaster]

Alphadawg is right in that there is a myth that Zay Jones really came on for the Bills last season. He had some terrible games and big time drops down the stretch. Yes, he lit it up week 17 against the Dolphins who had checked out, but otherwise he was a pedestrian wr. Zay was terrible as a rookie and one of the most inefficient wrs in the NFL so it was hard not for him to improve upon his 2017 season.

 

Jones got 102 targets last year for a possession wr and turned that into a total of 652 yards on 52 receptions. If that is #1 or #2 wr type numbers then the standard is too low. I don't need Jones off the team and would be fine letting him actually COMPETE for a position. Jones was handed a starting position from the time he was drafted and has never EARNED any of his playing time. The wr position was gutted when he arrived and due to his draft status he has been given preferential treatment. He has had terrible performances and the team has continued to trot him out in starting roles. That will not happen this year. If Jones sees any significant action it will be because he earned it. Brown, Beasley and Foster are all ahead of Jones in the depth chart. He would have to make a significant jump in his play in order to leapfrog any of those 3. In reviewing actual talent and the needs of this team, I strongly believe that Duke Williams will outperform Jones for the 4th spot. Williams offers the bigger body, contested catch ability that Jones is unable to deliver. We don't have that from any of the top 3 wrs so Williams offers something different and I think Dabol is looking for wrs with different skill sets in his offense. And if we draft a wr high then we might be talking about fighting over a 5th spot as opposed to the 4th. Roberts was signed as a special teams return man so he is almost a lock to make the team and take one of the wr spots (Mckenzie probably loses his spot on the team as a result unless Jones is moved).

 

Personally, I have seen enough of Jones to say I would like to trade him for a later round pick especially if we draft a wr in the first 3 rounds. I try and look at what a player can and can't do and there is a lot that Jones has shown not to be able to do.

Zay Jones

Speed: Average at best and has shown almost no ability to get behind defenses

Ability to separate/quickness in an out of breaks: Average at best as he is frequently blanketed on routes

Routine Catching: Below average as there have been too many routine drops whether lack of concentration or lack of confidence

Contested Catches: Below average as he has not demonstrated the ability to go up and fight for jump balls or make tough catches with defenders on him

Run After Catch: Average at best as there has been nothing special with his elusiveness or ability to break tackles

Knowledge of position and playbook: Above average as it appears to be always in position and knows his assignments

Awareness when plays break down: Above average as he appears to be alert and to find open spots on scramble plays

 

There might be more areas to evaluate a wr but those are the big things that come to mind and Jones is below average in most areas. The best thing he does is know where to line up and what routes to run but as far as actual playmaking ability he has shown very little thus far. I guess anything can happen but I find it difficult to believe that Jones will all of a sudden make some big jump in athletic ability and playmaking in his 3rd season. He has been given tons of opportunities and displayed no real potential playmaking ability thus far which leads me to believe it is never going to happen with him.

 

As long as he does not complain about a reduced role then I don't care if he remains as a 4th, 5th or 6th wr. But if we could move him for a 5th or 6th I would do that as he has shown himself to be a replacement level wr thus far.

Edited March 16, 2019 by racketmaster

[Magox]

I suppose anything is possible but hes certainly trending in the right direction, he certainly is all about Buffalo and seems to have really good work ethic.  Who knows what the draft will bring about or if Duke turns out to be a real gem and if Beasley and Brown really acclimate themselves to the team.  But those are a whole bunch of ifs that would need to happen to have Zay not make the team.  I would say that odds are he makes the team and probably is one of the first 4 WR's to get on the field at the start of the year.

[TDRupp]

Zay Jones with Bills in 2019....

 

- Bills will not serious look at trading until and unless: 1. We get to August AND 2. we have another backup Outside WR  ahead/equal to of him AND 3. a backup Slot WR ahead/equal of him

 

He is the primary backup at outside WR and likely slot WR right now, in my opinion.  

 

Zay Jones comes to camp with the Bill's. McBeane loves to stack them and have depth in camp for competition and in case of injury.

 

If we draft another WR or two, high enough it possibly could change. If the Bill's focus on DE, DT, OL, TE in tgre first three to four picks, he is comixing to camp.  Until then, sit back and relax!! Zay is a cost controlled WR with 2 years left, lots of experience, that can serve as a backup/part-time player or starter, if needed b/c of injury.

Edited March 16, 2019 by TDRupp

[eball]

One thing Zay really does have going for him is that this regime drafted him.  I've been going back and forth on the will-he-be-here-or-not question but after a few days I'm back around to believing he will make the roster.  I think he will actually benefit from the arrival of Brown and Beasley...two vets to learn from.  To quote Saint Doug, "obviously" this is a huge year for him and I'm sure he knows that.

[racketmaster]

1 minute ago, TDRupp said:

Zay Jones with Bills in 2019....

 

- Bills will not serious look at trading until and unless: 1. We get to August AND 2. we have another backup Outside WR  ahead/equal to of him AND 3. a backup Slot WR ahead/equal of him

 

He is the primary backup at outside WR and likely slot WR right now, in my opinion.  

 

Zay Jones comes to camp with the Bill's. McBeane loves to stack them and have depth in camp for competition and in case of injury.

 

If we draft another WR or two, high enough it possibly could change. If the Bill's focus on DE, DT, OL, TE in tgre first three to four picks, he is comixing to camp.  Until then, sit back and relax.  Zay is a cost controlled WR with 2 years left, lots of experience, that can serve as a backup/part-time player or starter, if needed b/c of injury!

This I tend to agree with and don't have an issue with. If the Bills don't draft a wr this year there is probably room to keep Jones as a primary backup wr as he could play multiple positions. His position versatility could be enough to warrant keeping him on the team in case there are injuries or if Foster takes a step back. I would be fine with that, but I would also be fine if the Bills just chose to move on from Jones and trade him for a pick or player at a position of need. To me he is replacement level wr so a smart street level free agent could fill his role as a backup wr.

2 minutes ago, eball said:

One thing Zay really does have going for him is that this regime drafted him.  I've been going back and forth on the will-he-be-here-or-not question but after a few days I'm back around to believing he will make the roster.  I think he will actually benefit from the arrival of Brown and Beasley...two vets to learn from.  To quote Saint Doug, "obviously" this is a huge year for him and I'm sure he knows that.

One thing we know is that Beane and McDermott want to create competition at every position. Jones has yet to really have to compete for a spot so far. That will change this year and maybe they keep Jones to see how he responds and for him to push the guys ahead of him in Brown, Beasley and Foster.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 hours ago, Logic said:

I think people underrate Zay Jones. He was Buffalo's leading receiver last year. Despite catching passes from Derek Anderson, Matt Barkley, Nathan Peterman, and rookie Josh Allen in 2018, he put up 652 yards and 7 TDs in his second year. As the season was coming to an end, he really began to come on. His last two games featured 5 catches for 67 yards and a TD against the Pats and 6 catches for 93 yards and 2 TDs against the Dolphins.

I'm not saying he's a world beater, but he's young, talented, cheap labor. And if you tell me "he'll never get better", I say B.S.! Eric Moulds had less than 300 yards in seasons 1 and 2 of his career. How did Robert Woods do in Buffalo, yardage wise ? I'm sick of sticking talented WRs in bad passing offenses, watching them struggle to produce, and then letting them walk away to another team who knows how to use them. Let me see Zay Jones get one full season with Josh Allen and the improved o-line, and then we can make a determination on shipping him off.

 

Same here.

 

Woods, Goodwin, Hogan all three should have been retained. Or at least a good case could be made for keeping all three. I know you can't keep everybody.  Oddly enough, it's Watkins, the most talented of all of them that still hasn't bested his years in Buffalo on either of his new teams since leaving.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I think what the OP is missing is the potential upside to keeping Zay for the 2019 season vs the upside of not keeping him for the this season. I don't see any great benefit to releasing him. On the flip side, this will be Zay's 3rd year. Some receivers are known for the light finally going off in their 3rd year and production going up. Couple that with it being Zay's second year in the same system with the same QB and you could see why there is a chance for greater upside. I also recall a couple of big plays left on the field last year where Zay was running wide open but Allen missed him because Allen was a rookie. We might hit on those this year. 

[Kelly the Dog]

If the Bills draft a WR in first 5 rounds or make a trade for one, I don’t see how Zay stays. Brown, Beasley and Foster are starters. Roberts is a lock. Duke offers far more the different kind of WR than Zay. And Zay doesn’t play ST. Roberts can play the gadget plays that McKittrick ran last year. 

 

They are only going to have 3-4 WR active on game day plus Roberts who will always be active barring injury. 

 

Right now I think it’s Brown, Beasley, Foster, Duke, Roberts, Zay. In that order. With Zay not active. Although it’s possible that Duke just doesn’t perform. I think he will. 

 

There is also always a surprise WR that makes it. Maybe it’s Cam. Or McKittrick and Zay is traded for a 6 or 7. 

 

 

 

[eball]

18 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

If the Bills draft a WR in first 5 rounds or make a trade for one, I don’t see how Zay stays. Brown, Beasley and Foster are starters. Roberts is a lock. Duke offers far more the different kind of WR than Zay. And Zay doesn’t play ST. Roberts can play the gadget plays that McKittrick ran last year. 

 

They are only going to have 3-4 WR active on game day plus Roberts who will always be active barring injury. 

 

Right now I think it’s Brown, Beasley, Foster, Duke, Roberts, Zay. In that order. With Zay not active. Although it’s possible that Duke just doesn’t perform. I think he will. 

 

There is also always a surprise WR that makes it. Maybe it’s Cam. Or McKittrick and Zay is traded for a 6 or 7. 

 

 

 

 

I'd still really like to see them draft one, since this draft is so deep at the position.  I think Zay sticks at least through training camp -- if he makes a significant step forward he has a chance.

[Kelly the Dog]

5 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I'd still really like to see them draft one, since this draft is so deep at the position.  I think Zay sticks at least through training camp -- if he makes a significant step forward he has a chance.

I want them to draft one, too. But there are so many needs still. And if they do, where do you see Zay fit? The not playing ST is going to kill him. 

[eball]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

I want them to draft one, too. But there are so many needs still. And if they do, where do you see Zay fit? The not playing ST is going to kill him. 

 

I guess I keep thinking he is going to suddenly become the guy he was at ECU.  You're right though...if he doesn't, then how does he get on the field ahead of Foster, Brown and Beasley?

 

I'm sure Zay knows this is a make-or-break season for him.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

highlight reels are fun,

 

Zay's isn't bad either

 

 

I mean I don't see any comparison between those highlight videos. JuJu makes a bunch of tough catches and shows more speed. Zay makes some competent plays. It's a world of difference.

3 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

In fact, he has good speed. He’s underrated with the ball in his hands and he’s better at separating than many are giving him credit for.

 

I guess I don't remember any incredible plays he had with the ball in his hands, or any incredible catches. He is just a guy on the field. Defenses aren't watching film to figure out how to stop Zay Jones. That's why we signed John Brown and Cole Beasley. Defenses have to worry about them.

[HurlyBurly51]

3 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

If the Bills draft a WR in first 5 rounds or make a trade for one, I don’t see how Zay stays. Brown, Beasley and Foster are starters. Roberts is a lock. Duke offers far more the different kind of WR than Zay. And Zay doesn’t play ST. Roberts can play the gadget plays that McKittrick ran last year. 

 

They are only going to have 3-4 WR active on game day plus Roberts who will always be active barring injury. 

 

Right now I think it’s Brown, Beasley, Foster, Duke, Roberts, Zay. In that order. With Zay not active. Although it’s possible that Duke just doesn’t perform. I think he will. 

 

There is also always a surprise WR that makes it. Maybe it’s Cam. Or McKittrick and Zay is traded for a 6 or 7. 

 

 

 

Duke ahead of Zay?!  And Roberts?!  Wow.

[Kelly the Dog]

25 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Duke ahead of Zay?!  And Roberts?!  Wow.

Roberts, as far as being a roster lock and active on game day is ahead of Zay and Duke, even if he is a lesser WR. That’s not even up for argument. I was saying if Duke proves to be able to be the big physical 50-50 ball guy he has potential to be, he will leapfrog Zay because he will be a completely different kind of WR than anyone else, and fit this various weapons idea more than the true #1, true #2 and so on idea. 

[Jay_Fixit]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I mean I don't see any comparison between those highlight videos. JuJu makes a bunch of tough catches and shows more speed. Zay makes some competent plays. It's a world of difference.

 

I guess I don't remember any incredible plays he had with the ball in his hands, or any incredible catches. He is just a guy on the field. Defenses aren't watching film to figure out how to stop Zay Jones. That's why we signed John Brown and Cole Beasley. Defenses have to worry about them.

I don’t remember saying anything about incredible plays. I said that he’s not below average in the 3 things you said he was below average at. But if you feel like writing words because it feels good, then have at it.

 

They signed a speed guy and a slot guy. Two things they needed. Which they didn’t have. They’ll all compliment each other. And Zay will be a part of the offense. Because he’s a talented player who’s played with some real ***** his first two years.

 

 

[Prickly Pete]

Zay Jones blows.

[Kelly the Dog]

18 minutes ago, OJ Tom said:

Zay Jones blows.

Not that there is anything wrong with that. 

[njbuff]

The more I think about it, the more there could be credence to this.

 

The Bills are very very high on Kelvin Harmon and if they draft him in the second round, Jones could be shipped off to Seattle in a package for Frank Clark.

 

Seattle still needs WR's and Zay could be a nice weapon for Wilson.

 

Otherwise, Jones doesn't go anywhere.

Edited March 27, 2019 by njbuff

[Alphadawg7]

41 minutes ago, njbuff said:

The more I think about it, the more there could be credence to this.

 

The Bills are very very high on Kelvin Harmon and if they draft him in the second round, Jones could be shipped off to Seattle in a package for Frank Clark.

 

Seattle still needs WR's and Zay could be a nice weapon for Wilson.

 

Otherwise, Jones doesn't go anywhere.

 

Agreed.  If anyone goes back and reads my full OP and many of my replies, they will see this is exactly what I said would happen...a trade of Zay Jones.  

 

I suggested we would sign at least 1 or 2 FA WR's...which we did.  That makes 3 new WR's in that room right now:  Brown, Cole and Duke.  

 

Most people felt Zay had a better shot at the slot spot, and I did as well.  But the issue is he doesn't do anything good that you need your slot WR to be.  He's not twitchy or quick, he doesn't have reliable hands, and he isnt a polished route runner.  Enter Cole Beasley, job is officially 100% his barring injury.  

 

Now Zay is already competing with Foster (who already passed him up) and Brown, who was not signed to a 4 year deal to sit on the bench.  As we sit right now, Zay may be "penciled" in by de facto of being here as a "starter" just because he knows the playbook.  The REALITY is that he is really 4th on the depth chart right now and will have to beat out either Foster or Brown because no way he takes Coles job.  But, he doesnt have the speed of either of those guys, nor does he do anything else better than them.  They are better WR's right now and Foster is still getting better and at a faster pace.

 

I will also note, Foster is out in CA working with Josh all offseason...I haven't seen any reports of Zay being there.  He could be, I could have not seen them, but I searched online and didnt find anything about Zay working out with Josh this offseason.  

 

Now we still have Duke who is a wildcard, and he has the advantage of being a different skill set that can have value to the roster by being a big target with a big catch radius.  He still has to prove he can play in the NFL, but make no mistake about it, Zay is in competition with him too even for the 4th WR spot.  

 

And that is all BEFORE we likely add a WR in the draft.  NOW, if we do NOT add a WR early (first 3 rounds) in the draft, then Zay has a better chance of at least being on the roster, but I think he will be no higher than 4th on the depth chart.  But that is also why I think Beane will look to trade him...Beane is a master at getting value and he knows if Zay sits on the bench a lot this year in a limited and diminished role, his value will be almost nothing next year and he becomes a cut candidate rather than a trade candidate.  And after spending a 2nd round pick on him, I think Beane would like some return on that if he isn't part of the long term plans.  

 

Which is why I think he gets traded sometime before week 1.  And honestly, wouldn't surprise me if he was used in a trade up package at some point during the draft.  Although, I do not expect that and I think Zay more likely gets traded in something like you suggested njbluff or he makes it to camp and preseason and gets traded sometime during that like Watkins was.  Maybe even showcase him early in preseason like they did with Watkins.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[njbuff]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Agreed.  If anyone goes back and reads my full OP and many of my replies, they will see this is exactly what I said would happen...a trade of Zay Jones.  

 

I suggested we would sign at least 1 or 2 FA WR's...which we did.  That makes 3 new WR's in that room right now:  Brown, Cole and Duke.  

 

Most people felt Zay had a better shot at the slot spot, and I did as well.  But the issue is he doesn't do anything good that you need you slot WR to be.  He's not twitchy or quick, he doesn't have reliable hands, and he isnt a polished route runner.  Enter Cole Beasley, job is officially 100% his barring injury.  

 

Now Zay is already competing with Foster (who already passed him up) and Brown, who was not signed to a 4 year deal to sit on the bench.  As we sit right now, Zay may be "penciled" in by de facto of being here as a "starter" just because he knows the playbook.  The REALITY is that he is really 4th on the depth chart right now and will have to beat out either Foster or Brown because no way he takes Coles job.  But, he doesnt have the speed of either of those guys, nor does he do anything else better than them.  They are better WR's right now and Foster is still getting better and at a faster pace.

 

I will also note, Foster is out in CA working with Josh all offseason...I haven't seen any reports of Zay being there.  He could be, I could have not seen them, but I searched online and didnt find anything about Zay working out with Josh this offseason.  

 

Now we still have Duke who is a wildcard, and he has the advantage of being a different skill set that can have value to the roster by being a big target with a big catch radius.  He still has to prove he can play in the NFL, but make no mistake about it, Zay is in competition with him too even for the 4th WR spot.  

 

And that is all BEFORE we likely add a WR in the draft.  NOW, if we do NOT add a WR early (first 3 rounds) in the draft, then Zay has a better chance of at least being on the roster, but I think he will be no higher than 4th on the depth chart.  But that is also why I think Beane will look to trade him...Beane is a master at getting value and he knows if Zay sits on the bench a lot this year in a limited and diminished role, his value will be almost nothing next year and he becomes a cut candidate rather than a trade candidate.  And after spending a 2nd round pick on him, I think Beane would like some return on that if he isn't part of the long term plans.  

 

Which is why I think he gets traded sometime before week 1.  And honestly, wouldn't surprise me if he was used in a trade up package at some point during the draft.  Although, I do not expect that and I think Zay more likely gets traded in something like you suggested njbluff or he makes it to camp and preseason and gets traded sometime during that like Watkins was.  Maybe even showcase him early in preseason like they did with Watkins.

 

All hinges on if the Bills are drafting a WR high.

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, njbuff said:

 

All hinges on if the Bills are drafting a WR high.

 

Yup, this I do agree on.  And I referenced this in my OP too where I said my prediction was based on what I expect the Beane to do at WR over the offseason, which included a rookie WR that was a relevant draft pick.  If they say invest in a day 3 WR, I don't think that immediately threatens Zay, but once camp and preseason gets here then there will be stiff competition.  But if we take one with one of our first 3 picks, then I think that will be the end of Zays tenure at some point before week 1.  

[MikeSpeed]

You guys make me laugh. What makes you guys think Brown, Beasley are so much better than Jones? Their stats certainly don't show it. Brown had 1 really good year when Palmer was throwing him the ball, other than that nothing special. Beasley has been in the NFL 7 years and has had only 2 years where he had more yardage than Jones did last year. Jones had 7 TDs last year. Beasley has never had that many in a season. Brown did once.

I get that we need better production from Zay, but to want him cut because he is so much worse than Brown and Beasley is not looking at this objectively.

 

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yup, this I do agree on.  And I referenced this in my OP too where I said my prediction was based on what I expect the Beane to do at WR over the offseason, which included a rookie WR that was a relevant draft pick.  If they say invest in a day 3 WR, I don't think that immediately threatens Zay, but once camp and preseason gets here then there will be stiff competition.  But if we take one with one of our first 3 picks, then I think that will be the end of Zays tenure at some point before week 1.  

 

We know they love Harmon. 

 

If he is related to Ronnie, I don't want the Bills to draft him.?

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

All hinges on if the Bills are drafting a WR high.

WR is very deep this year.  A 4th/5th round WR selection just might be hungry and talented enough to take Zays spot

[Alphadawg7]

On 3/15/2019 at 8:15 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

Our last 4 games of the season:

• Week 14 - Jets - 3 catches on 9 targets for 22 yards.  Terrible
• Week 15 - Lions - 1 catch on 6 targets for 11 yards.  Probably worst game of his career.  Slay dominated him as much as a DB can ever dominate a WR.
• Week 16 - Pats - 5 catches on 9 targets for 67 yards, 1 TD.  MISLEADING.  4 catches or 36 yards on 8 targets with 1:17 left in the game down 24-6.  Gets garbage 31 yard TD when no one covers him on broken coverage.  One of his worst games of the year.
• Week 17 - Dolphins - 6 catches on 9 attempts for 93 years and 2 TD's.  Only good game down the stretch, but it was also a week 17 game against an awful Miami team who mailed it in and didn't bother to show up to play.  

 

I posted this on the previous page...just a reminder about the myth of Zay.  People throughout this thread kept claiming he really came on strong with Allen down the stretch.  Just was not factual in any way possible.  Weeks 14, 15, and 16 were just awful games for Zay and 2 of them were among the worst of his career in weeks 15 and 16 where he was physically dominated about as bad as a WR could be in each of those.  

 

The reality is that Zay had only 2 decent games with Allen, and both were against the woeful Dolphins.  He did almost nothing in all the other games.  But because people stat box check instead of watching the games, they keep thinking the NE game was good, which it was utterly terrible.  Just one free gimme play on broken coverage with a minute left made his stat box look like he had a good game.  But it was one of his worst games of the year.  

 

Not to mention the drops, the trouble getting open on his initial route, the sloppy route running, and the lack of both mental and physical toughness.  I just dont see how he will beat out either Brown or Foster, and I am doubtful he can beat out Duke even before Duke has stepped on an NFL field.  Not to mention a talented rookie.  

 

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

WR is very deep this year.  A 4th/5th round WR selection just might be hungry and talented enough to take Zays spot

 

Heck I think either Duke or McKenzie has a shot to take his spot even before we add that rookie.  

Edited March 27, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Heck I think either Duke or McKenzie has a shot to take his spot even before we add that rookie.  

I think Duke pulls way ahead of Zay.  Duke has excelled everywhere and at every level-HS, SEC, CFL.  And like you stated, Duke has a skillset that Zay does not possess 

[badassgixxer05]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I posted this on the previous page...just a reminder about the myth of Zay.  People throughout this thread kept claiming he really came on strong with Allen down the stretch.  Just was not factual in any way possible.  Weeks 14, 15, and 16 were just awful games for Zay and 2 of them were among the worst of his career in weeks 15 and 16 where he was physically dominated about as bad as a WR could be in each of those. 

He was averaging over 8 targets a game during that stretch. I would say he was Allens go to target whether he was catching all those balls or not. To discredit production because it was 4th quarter or last game of year is bs. Why do we even track stats the whole year then. AB must be garbage because he went off on the browns twice a year for almost a decade. Zay had production in NFL games. When did Beasly or Brown go off on anyone recently that makes them that much better?

The truth is all 4 top receivers are currently at the same level. Whoever out performs in camp will be starting. They signed these guys for competition the same if they draft anyone.

[Alphadawg7]

14 minutes ago, Pete said:

I think Duke pulls way ahead of Zay.  Duke has excelled everywhere and at every level-HS, SEC, CFL.  And like you stated, Duke has a skillset that Zay does not possess 

 

Yeah, I am high on Duke.  I think he will surprise some people.  I get it, he has to still prove it...but so does every rookie.  This guy is further along than a rookie, and talent was never an issue.  Plus he is hungry to prove he belongs.  

 

I think Duke has a real shot to make the roster as 4th or 5th WR, but I also think he could challenge for a starting spot too.  He is a big Redzone target, something our other WR's lack.  So if he comes on strong, wouldn't surprise me to see him on one side of the field.  Then you rotate Foster and Brown as the speed guy opposite him to keep the legs fresh and also rotate Duke out to put both Foster and Brown on the field on plays for deep pressure.  

Edited March 27, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Pete]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, I am high on Duke.  I think he will surprise some people.  I get it, he has to still prove it...but so does every rookie.  This guy is further along than a rookie, and talent was never an issue.  Plus he is hungry to prove he belongs.  

 

I think Duke has a real shot to make the roster as 4th or 5th WR, but I also think he could challenge for a starting spot too.  He is a big Redzone target, something our other WR's lack.  So if he comes on strong, wouldn't surprise me to see him on one side of the field.  Then you rotate Foster and Brown as the speed guy opposite him to keep the legs fresh and also rotate Duke out to put both Foster and Brown on the field on plays for deep pressure.  

Our WRs group is much better this season, and better then many realize.  Pair Brown's speed with Foster, give Josh some time- that is a long TD waiting to happen!  Opposing defense will have to respect their speed.  That will open underneath for Beasley, who is slippery, and catches everything.  And Duke is tough, and will win 50/50 battles.  Andre Roberts is our returner.  That is 5 locks IMO, barring injury. We probably will draft at least one WR.   After FA our roster is pretty deep 1-53.  And with 10 picks, and all that cap room, we might not have luxury of keeping 6 WR.  Personally I would use that roster spot on quality OL.  Last years WR group in training cap was awful.  This years group will be way more professional and skilled.  Ahem Zay, I am just saying......

Edited March 27, 2019 by Pete

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

Our WRs group is much better this season, and better then many realize.  Pair Brown's speed with Foster, give Josh some time- that is a long TD waiting to happen!  Opposing defense will have to respect their speed.  That will open underneath for Beasley, who is slippery, and catches everything.  And Duke is tough, and will win 50/50 battles.  Andre Roberts is our returner.  That is 5 locks IMO, barring injury. We probably will draft at least one WR.   After FA our roster is pretty deep 1-53.  And with 10 picks, and all that cap room, we might not have luxury of keeping 6 WR.  Personally I would use that roster spot on quality OL.  Last years WR group in training cap was awful.  This years group will be way more professional and skilled.  Ahem Zay, I am just saying......

Brown and Beasley are locks because of their signings. 

 

Brown > Foster who is not a lock if he can’t do things other than run fast 

 

Zay is an NFL WR. Duke is a CFL WR, absolutely not a lock. He hasn’t proven a thing in the league. 

 

Zay is still the most versatile WR on the Bills. 

 

Roberts May be a lock, depending on how good the rest of his game is (ST defending and WR) 

 

to me cerainty of being on the roster follows this sequence 1 being most likely, last being least:

 

Likely: 

1. Cole

2. Brown 

3. Zay

4. Roberts 

5. Foster 

 

Outside looking In:

Isaiah / Duke / Scott / Ray ray / v Boldin / Phillips 

 

[Misterbluesky]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

WR is very deep this year.  A 4th/5th round WR selection just might be hungry and talented enough to take Zays spot

Anthony Johnson..Beane was at two UB games because of him.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Misterbluesky

[John from Riverside]

I wonder what Zay would fetch in trade?

[Kelly the Dog]

26 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I wonder what Zay would fetch in trade?

Does any team have a TE, OT, LB or DL who jumped naked through glass on a balcony?

[Estro]

Zay jones fetches you at best a 6th rounder and that's only because he has a couple up cheap years left of you can get anything out of him.

 

His stock is low though.....hes shown very little on the field, and his off the field became a concern last year.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Brown and Beasley are locks because of their signings. 

 

Brown > Foster who is not a lock if he can’t do things other than run fast 

 

Zay is an NFL WR. Duke is a CFL WR, absolutely not a lock. He hasn’t proven a thing in the league. 

 

Zay is still the most versatile WR on the Bills. 

 

Roberts May be a lock, depending on how good the rest of his game is (ST defending and WR) 

 

to me cerainty of being on the roster follows this sequence 1 being most likely, last being least:

 

Likely: 

1. Cole

2. Brown 

3. Zay

4. Roberts 

5. Foster 

 

Outside looking In:

Isaiah / Duke / Scott / Ray ray / v Boldin / Phillips 

 

 

[Real McClappy]

1 hour ago, Misterbluesky said:

Anthony Johnson..Beane was at two UB games because of him.

I like this dude a ton as well.

[mjt328]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Agreed.  If anyone goes back and reads my full OP and many of my replies, they will see this is exactly what I said would happen...a trade of Zay Jones.  

 

I suggested we would sign at least 1 or 2 FA WR's...which we did.  That makes 3 new WR's in that room right now:  Brown, Cole and Duke.  

 

Most people felt Zay had a better shot at the slot spot, and I did as well.  But the issue is he doesn't do anything good that you need your slot WR to be.  He's not twitchy or quick, he doesn't have reliable hands, and he isnt a polished route runner.  Enter Cole Beasley, job is officially 100% his barring injury.  

 

Now Zay is already competing with Foster (who already passed him up) and Brown, who was not signed to a 4 year deal to sit on the bench.  As we sit right now, Zay may be "penciled" in by de facto of being here as a "starter" just because he knows the playbook.  The REALITY is that he is really 4th on the depth chart right now and will have to beat out either Foster or Brown because no way he takes Coles job.  But, he doesnt have the speed of either of those guys, nor does he do anything else better than them.  They are better WR's right now and Foster is still getting better and at a faster pace.

 

I will also note, Foster is out in CA working with Josh all offseason...I haven't seen any reports of Zay being there.  He could be, I could have not seen them, but I searched online and didnt find anything about Zay working out with Josh this offseason.  

 

Now we still have Duke who is a wildcard, and he has the advantage of being a different skill set that can have value to the roster by being a big target with a big catch radius.  He still has to prove he can play in the NFL, but make no mistake about it, Zay is in competition with him too even for the 4th WR spot.  

 

And that is all BEFORE we likely add a WR in the draft.  NOW, if we do NOT add a WR early (first 3 rounds) in the draft, then Zay has a better chance of at least being on the roster, but I think he will be no higher than 4th on the depth chart.  But that is also why I think Beane will look to trade him...Beane is a master at getting value and he knows if Zay sits on the bench a lot this year in a limited and diminished role, his value will be almost nothing next year and he becomes a cut candidate rather than a trade candidate.  And after spending a 2nd round pick on him, I think Beane would like some return on that if he isn't part of the long term plans.  

 

Which is why I think he gets traded sometime before week 1.  And honestly, wouldn't surprise me if he was used in a trade up package at some point during the draft.  Although, I do not expect that and I think Zay more likely gets traded in something like you suggested njbluff or he makes it to camp and preseason and gets traded sometime during that like Watkins was.  Maybe even showcase him early in preseason like they did with Watkins.

 

Possible.  But your theory depends on us drafting a WR high, which I just don't see happening.

 

We haven't replaced Kyle Williams, and will have a handful of talented DTs staring us in the face at #9.

We are clearly in the market for another DE, but were unable to get one in free agency (at least not yet).

Our weakest position is Tight End.  If Daboll is trying to copy the Patriots at all, this will not be the case for long.

 

Now that he's got some freedom with the cap, you can see how Beane likes to approach the roster.  Instead of going top-heavy, he likes stockpiling depth and making them fight for a roster spot.  I don't see him considering Zay Jones expendable yet.  I also don't think he's ready to hand Robert Foster a Top 3 spot after handful of good games his rookie season.

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Possible.  But your theory depends on us drafting a WR high, which I just don't see happening.

 

We haven't replaced Kyle Williams, and will have a handful of talented DTs staring us in the face at #9.

We are clearly in the market for another DE, but were unable to get one in free agency (at least not yet).

Our weakest position is Tight End.  If Daboll is trying to copy the Patriots at all, this will not be the case for long.

 

Now that he's got some freedom with the cap, you can see how Beane likes to approach the roster.  Instead of going top-heavy, he likes stockpiling depth and making them fight for a roster spot.  I don't see him considering Zay Jones expendable yet.  I also don't think he's ready to hand Robert Foster a Top 3 spot after handful of good games his rookie season.

 

 

 

 

Foster has more good games in his 7 games than Zay has in 30 games.

 

Foster - 7 games:  three 100 yard games.

 

Zay - 30 games:  zero 100 yard games and 22 games under 40 yards.  

 

Foster deserves to start more than Zay and it’s not close.