JoeF Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: If there’s one team that has been masterful at their use of analytics it’s the Dolphins (sarcasm font). All the analytics in the world get blown up by a nut job owner......Stephen Ross = Dan Snyder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, MJS said: Why would an analytics guy be involved in contract negotiations? The cap has nothing to do with his job. You have no idea what his job was, how much influence he had, if he was respected, what good or bad moves he was involved in, etc. You can't just make such rash inferences without any information whatsoever. He took a job with a division rival. That to me says he was not super happy there,Cor happy with the direction the organization was heading. Analytics guys are using numbers and data to group players. They are using data to predict future performance based on certain traits. The only thing that we know are the results. It was a disaster in the Dolphins case. You don’t know if he had a lot or a little involvement. You do know that the results were bad. If he had had a little involvement that is a problem to me. I haven’t been in sports in almost 7 years but our analytics people had a big say. I can’t possibly see that being less now than it was then. There is so much more information and training for the role. The point is that we don’t know if he is bad or good. We know the results of his previous situation were bad. It is VERY fair to assume that he played a role in that. We just don’t know how big of a role. 5 minutes ago, JoeF said: All the analytics in the world get blown up by a nut job owner......Stephen Ross = Dan Snyder This is fair. Edited February 26, 2019 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said: I think they had and still have some good talent outside of QB. I guess that we just disagree on this. I’m not a fan of the talent on the Dolphins (except the secondary). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: If he had no say, that is a problem. If he had a say, he did a bad job. EVERY analytics person has a voice in today’s professional sports. Gase didn’t pick players. This guys likely had as much to do with that as Gase. Now they are talking about tearing it down. I doubt this guy had much to do with Gase alienating their best RB, WR, and getting rid of Suh. And that great run they had in bringing in Cutler. Gase had a ton to do with the lack of talent down there and personnel decisions. That's why he is gone. Edited February 26, 2019 by Ol Dirty B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 48 minutes ago, 2018 Our Year For Sure said: According to the good doctor himself in the video Yolo posted, neither of these posts are correct. His job is not 'just to run the numbers,' it's to come to conclusions based on those statistical models. And yes, he is involved with player acquisition/team-building. He is not a decision maker. He can come to whatever conclusions he wants about players, schemes, etc, but the coaches, GM, and management may or may not follow those conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Nerds But seriously, good for nerds for getting involved in football. I think the key is finding the balance between analytics and old fashion scouting. Sites like PFF have value but they often are very flawed in their analysis (not knowing playcalls or assignments for individual players is a big one). Also, in an emotional game like football, blind numbers don’t work like they do in baseball. still, what can it hurt if used in a vacuum. 1 hour ago, Rico said: I wonder if he is concerned that EJ had better stats his rookie year than Josh Allen did. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Nerds But seriously, good for nerds for getting involved in football. I think the key is finding the balance between analytics and old fashion scouting. Sites like PFF have value but they often are very flawed in their analysis (not knowing playcalls or assignments for individual players is a big one). Also, in an emotional game like football, blind numbers don’t work like they do in baseball. still, what can it hurt if used in a vacuum. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, teef said: One of the greatest pep talks in world history!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) 58 minutes ago, 2018 Our Year For Sure said: According to the good doctor himself in the video Yolo posted, neither of these posts are correct. His job is not 'just to run the numbers,' it's to come to conclusions based on those statistical models. And yes, he is involved with player acquisition/team-building. He indicated that his role is similar to that of a scout, in terms of the weight of his voice. He does his part in terms of analytics and attributing meaning to the personnel and football decisions but he’s just presenting it to the decision makers as one of many pieces of data. What isn’t known is how much the Miami FO followed his recommendations. That’s the only way to determine how much he contributed to their success/talent or lack thereof. you can say the same of any member of the FO underneath the GM (or Gase in this case who had control over the 53) because that is whose name is tied to every decision. Hickey hired him in Miami and must think he’s good. Some teams don’t invest in analytics at all - like the chargers - so it’s a nice thing to have. Edited February 26, 2019 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Mike Schopp has got to love this hire. This dude is going to bring us a Super Bowl thru analytics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Does anyone know what this guy has that the prior MIT guy (who was fired) did not have . . . or was this just a case of firing a guy that was hired by someone else and bringing on someone else? Buffalo Bills Hired MIT Grad Mike Lyons in 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, Peter said: Does anyone know what this guy has that the prior MIT guy (who was fired) did not have . . . or was this just a case of firing a guy that was hired by someone else and bringing on someone else? Buffalo Bills Hired MIT Grad Mike Lyons in 2013 My read on a superficial search was the old guy was a former Xerox market and pricing analytics guy. This new one seem like a football analytics guy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Peter said: Does anyone know what this guy has that the prior MIT guy (who was fired) did not have . . . or was this just a case of firing a guy that was hired by someone else and bringing on someone else? Buffalo Bills Hired MIT Grad Mike Lyons in 2013 Lyons wasn’t hired to do football analytics. This guy has a sports analytics background. https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/25/bills-axe-analytics-staff/amp/ Edited February 26, 2019 by YoloinOhio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: i love taking away from divisional opponents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said: i love taking away from divisional opponents Like Bledsoe? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: Like Bledsoe? ? Better than Lossman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I think McB know what they're doing and what they want. I don't know if what they're doing will get the results we want, but they have a well defined idea of what they are doing and who they want. So the fact that this guy comes from a franchise that hasn't had a lot of success doesn't bother me. The guy wouldn't be coming if he didn't buy what McB are doing, and they wouldn't have taken him if he didn't look like a fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
315Mafia Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: i like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 The montage of perspectives on this thread convinces me no one is an authority on analytics. Not even PHD’s. I’m not knocking it, it’s ‘brain analyzing stuff’, so it’s subject to interpretation. I hope he does well for us -however that’s assessed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I guess that we just disagree on this. I’m not a fan of the talent on the Dolphins (except the secondary). and RBs, and Oline, and th Dline aint bad either. As much as we dont like him kiko is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I wonder how much of a raise he needed to get to come from eternal sun and no income tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: and RBs, and Oline, and th Dline aint bad either. As much as we dont like him kiko is good. They are okay but are they better than average? Are Kenyan Drake and Frank Gore a good backfield? Stills, Wilson, Amendola and Parker? I just don’t think that their talent is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsSB2020 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 6 hours ago, CLTbills said: But, keep in mind, Gase did have a HUGE hand in some good talent leaving... Ajayi, Jarvis Landry, Jordan Phillips.. So just because they're a little short on talent, i wouldn't necessarily blame the analytics guys... seems like they had some good talent that the HC ran off... if those are the ones we know about, I'm sure there are more out there as well. I respect your opinion more than most on here, Kirby, just playing Devil's Advocate... Agreed. It's also important to note that the analytics guy is not making the decisions. It's ultimately up to Gase/now McBeane to make the right decisions with the information provided. Appears as though the guy is respected around the league, so there's nothing to dislike about the hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) Analytics often involves studying past historical data to research potential trends, to analyze the effects of certain decisions or events, or to evaluate the performance of a given tool or scenario. The goal of analytics is to improve the business by gaining knowledge which can be used to make improvements or changes. I bet Doug Whaleys name will come up a lot Edited February 26, 2019 by HOUSE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Lol analytics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 7 hours ago, Mark80 said: Curious, how did this guys work on analytics work out for the Dolphins? Seems to me the Dolphins have been pretty crappy since 2015. There is a difference between understanding / creating analytics and actually applying them effectively to an organization. Maybe Lock wanted to leave the team because after he did the research, the team didn't want to listen to his advice. I think with Adam Gase there was a certain level of dysfunctionality with the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Ah yes, The fins are Tanking for Tuva, right? Prolly Fins let him go to ensure their analytics department does not get in the way with an extra win or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Warcodered said: It's not Gase's fault his players couldn't look him in the eyes. Well, it’s not the PLAYERS’ faults...they weren’t the ones with the wandering gogglies! Edited February 27, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: If he's not from Carolina, why are we doing this??? OBD figured too many would kvetch if the analytics hire was from Carolina? ? Edited February 27, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: They are okay but are they better than average? Are Kenyan Drake and Frank Gore a good backfield? Stills, Wilson, Amendola and Parker? I just don’t think that their talent is good. They averaged 4.7 yards per carry and 7.3 yards per pass and Gore kinda became the forgotten man IIRC. Edited February 27, 2019 by formerlyofCtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 9 hours ago, SWATeam said: Every NFL organization has talent throughout. You wouldn't roster any player from that team either, because the team overall is bad? This isn't any player. Its the guy who has been in charge of using his analytic skills to maximize the success of...the Dolphins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: If there’s one team that has been masterful at their use of analytics it’s the Dolphins (sarcasm font). That is NOT the sarcasm font! 3 hours ago, HOUSE said: Analytics often involves studying past historical data to research potential trends, to analyze the effects of certain decisions or events, or to evaluate the performance of a given tool or scenario. The goal of analytics is to improve the business by gaining knowledge which can be used to make improvements or changes. I bet Doug Whaleys name will come up a lot Whenever a Seinfeld meme is included it is gold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co_springs_billsfan Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 11 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Let the analysis begin! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 11 hours ago, SWATeam said: It is impossible to know if this guy is even the least bit responsible for anything you are inferring. Love the experts on this site who understand exactly how a pro football team operates and who holds what responsibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Too bad for the Fins this smarty pants wasn’t able to provide Kiko with the coefficient times variable calculations necessary to properly align his angle of attack on Josh Allen’s shake n’ bake thunder thighs! Numbers schmumbers. But welcome aboard regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Mark80 said: Curious, how did this guys work on analytics work out for the Dolphins? Seems to me the Dolphins have been pretty crappy since 2015. There is a difference between understanding / creating analytics and actually applying them effectively to an organization. IMO, analytics are helpful for finding solid depth players and players who are ready to step into a bigger role but have not gotten the chance on their current team for whatever reason... They are not the end all be all, they are just a part of the overall equation. At the end of the day analytics are basically formulas which have not been "proven" right or wrong through long term usage. The analytics are only as valuable as their correctness on predicting whatever it is they are supposed to be predicting...using analytics that are wrong in this regard would actually be worse than not using analytics at all. Edited February 27, 2019 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 7 hours ago, co_springs_billsfan said: Apparently, there’s been a lot of Tobias Fünke’s ‘analrapist’ types in the league front offices for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 On 2/26/2019 at 10:44 AM, Kirby Jackson said: I’m not trying to judge him too harshly and I’m sorry if it is coming across as that. I’m not trying to give the guy a free pass either. The only thing we have to formulate opinions at this point is the work with the Dolphins. I don’t think that any reasonable person can look at that situation and say that they did well. Maybe he was constantly overruled and would have been right? Maybe he was a big part of these bad decisions? We don’t know that. We just know that the results were bad. It's all good. There is certainly a cautionary tale when organizations get too blinded by analytics and methodology cure-all's. Look at how GE has "Agiled" their way into near bankruptcy. Much like slapping an "agile" sticker on a lumbering corpse. IMO... for OBD just like any other organization, nothing replaces good leadership, finding good people who make good decisions who then hire good people who can accomplish the mission (the process- that usually works). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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