Albany,n.y. Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 45 minutes ago, Mark80 said: There is absolutely zero reason whatsoever why this should impact their desire / need to draft a QB early....well, except for Elway's ego thinking he can get by with such a bad QB because he is just so much smarter than everyone (in his mind at least). Are you really comparing Peyton and Flacco? Please tell me this is sarcasm and i just missed it. I'm saying not all GMs are interested in drafting & developing a QB because they realize every year on the job could be their last. They'd rather go for the quick fix with a proven veteran and win more games than develop the next guy's QB. Elway's experience with Manning compared with Osweiller & Lynch puts him in the mindset that a veteran is a much better way to go. It's like the Bills during Ralph's years. The team never had any success with rookie head coaches. The most successful coaches in Bills history were retreads. Both wall of fame coaches were in the league before they came here. You go with what has worked before, even if the guy isn't as talented as the last guy who succeeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: To be fair, he had a couple of throw it up and pray plays that saved their playoff run. Few very low percentage plays at end of games that went their way. 19 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Flacco is a mystery to me. I think he had one of the best playoff and super bowl performances ever, he was so amazing as a passer in that playoff/super bowl run. I don't know why his numbers took such a dive, I still think if you put talent around Flacco that he could be a top 10 QB. If the Broncos can just make it to the playoffs they should be ok, Flacco seems to flick a switch in the playoffs and is just deadly accurate. There is no mystery in Flacco's numbers. He had a nice run for one Super Bowl but his main body of work speaks more of mediocrity . Flacco's career QB rating is 84.1. Even for the 2012 season when the Ravens won the Super Bowl, he only had an 87.7 rating. That is not very good at all in a league where elite QBs have ratings hovering in the high 90s to low 100s. There is no switch that will magically turn on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I don't know how John Elway hasn't been "retired" yet... This is a good move out of context, as it gives them a proven winner who is... meh?... I guess? But in the context of what he's done since the gods gave him Manning, this is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: They were whiskers away from being 10-6 last season. They lost a ton of close games that could have flipped them to 10-6 if Flacco had been the QB. He really is a better player than Keenum, who had one outlier season and showed us who he really was this a year: a guy who can't really throw a deep out with any effectiveness. Are they 13-3 good with Flacco? No, but there's no QB out there who'll get them to 13-3. Flacco is a measurable upgrade over Keenum and the team will be better for it. I don't see why anyone would mock this decision. Getting to the playoffs is where you start and always the goal, and Flacco has shown he can perform well in the postseason. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/deep-ball-project This was done prior to this season, but Football Outsiders reviewed all of the QBs deep balls from the prior season (in which Keenum was a borderline MVP candidate) and determined that Keenum was the worst deep ball thrower in the league. Flacco was 2nd worst and the only QB Flacco had a higher accuracy percentage (different from completion percentage) than was Brett Hundley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Also, if the Dolphins are really wanting to tank, don't be shocked if they make a move for Keenum. Step one of tanking is to have a respectable vet be the fall guy. Sucks for Keenum. Minnesota had lightening in the bottle and got too big for their britches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: This is so Elway. He has no clue how to draft and develop a QB. Not many people do. Biggest thing is patience, and not many people have it. Honestly if I needed a franchise QB I would want a solid veteran starter in place while the young kid develops. That's just how I would do. I think there is less pressure that way. Edited February 13, 2019 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) Stats aren't everything, but damn if this doesn't make you wonder: https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryTMR/status/1095732187058585606/photo/1 From tweet above: Past two years. Edited February 13, 2019 by whatdrought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, prissythecat said: There is no mystery in Flacco's numbers. He had a nice run for one Super Bowl but his main body of work speaks more of mediocrity . Flacco's career QB rating is 84.1. Even for the 2012 season when the Ravens won the Super Bowl, he only had an 87.7 rating. That is not very good at all in a league where elite QBs have ratings hovering in the high 90s to low 100s. There is no switch that will magically turn on. ..true but certainly don't see the Ravens infatuation with Jackson....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Only a 4th for Flacco, while the Bills got a 3rd for TT. Beane is a genius. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) I think buried in this story is that Jackson was by far the least impressive (maybe second to Rosen) rookie from last years class as a quarterback. I really wonder what will happen in Bmore if he doesn't take a step forward. Also, we all have opinions on this, but I think we can mostly all agree that this is good news: the offseason is here and it's gonna be as insane as last years was! Get your popcorn! Edited February 13, 2019 by whatdrought 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, DCOrange said: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/deep-ball-project This was done prior to this season, but Football Outsiders reviewed all of the QBs deep balls from the prior season (in which Keenum was a borderline MVP candidate) and determined that Keenum was the worst deep ball thrower in the league. Flacco was 2nd worst and the only QB Flacco had a higher accuracy percentage (different from completion percentage) than was Brett Hundley. Huh?? That tells me nothing. The Ravens had no receivers the year before, and in any event no way no how are Brissett, Prescott, and Tyrod Taylor better deep throwers than, say, Roethlisberger or Matthew Stafford. I mean, come on. So much of these stats are functions of the team around the QBs. I'm focusing on arm strength and the ability to make throws. Keenum struggles; Flacco doesn't. He has a good arm. I really like FO, but this is a garbage chart assuming we're meant to draw conclusions from it. Taylor was a good deep thrower when he was throwing to Sammy Watkins, Hogan, Woods, and and a healthy Percy Harvin; he became a garbage deep thrower when tossing it to Matthews, Benjamin, and Zay Jones. Go figure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I'm just happy we aren't in the QB market this year because we would have been all over Flacco. Big strong arm QBs get Buffalo GMs all hot and bothered. Probably end up giving a 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: Stats aren't everything, but damn if this doesn't make you wonder: https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryTMR/status/1095732187058585606/photo/1 For those thinking that this is simply because Keenum had the Vikings WRs to throw to and it was a fluke season for him (which it was), here's his numbers this season in which he sucked compared to Flacco's last two years (Flacco first, Keenum 2nd): Comp %: 62.9% vs. 62.3% Yd/Att: 6.04 vs. 6.63 AY/Att: 5.76 vs. 6.10 TD/Int: 1.58 vs. 1.2 TD%: 3.2% vs. 3.1% INT%: 2.0% vs. 2.6% QB Rating: 81.9 vs. 81.2 It's very close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 22 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Shocking right? I think he makes a lot of sense for Arizona. Could help Rosen take a step back and I think he's a great fit for what Kingsbury wants to do. A lot of similar concepts to what he did in college at Houston. The other option is to be the starter for whatever team drafts Kyler Murray. Keenum would be the perfect mentor for Murray. Outside of that, the Redskins make sense as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said: Not the first team that came to mind when I thought about trade destinations for Flacco. Wonder what happens with Keenum? Does he have any trade value, or will he just be cut? I don't think they ever saw him as more than a "bridge" QB. I assume they'll just keep him in the backup role. Maybe with a "restructured" contract. Edited February 13, 2019 by vincec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, DCOrange said: For those thinking that this is simply because Keenum had the Vikings WRs to throw to and it was a fluke season for him (which it was), here's his numbers this season in which he sucked compared to Flacco's last two years (Flacco first, Keenum 2nd): Comp %: 62.9% vs. 62.3% Yd/Att: 6.04 vs. 6.63 AY/Att: 5.76 vs. 6.10 TD/Int: 1.58 vs. 1.2 TD%: 3.2% vs. 3.1% INT%: 2.0% vs. 2.6% QB Rating: 81.9 vs. 81.2 It's very close. I can't tell if you're arguing against me, or with me... My point was that they doesn't seem to be a huge disparity between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I think buried in this story is that Jackson was by far the least impressive (maybe second to Rosen) rookie from last years class as a quarterback. I really wonder what will happen in Bmore if he doesn't take a step forward. Also, we all have opinions on this, but I think we can mostly all agree that this is good news: the offseason is here and it's gonna be as insane as last years was! Get your popcorn! ...at least we know why Harbaugh signed the extension QUICKLY...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...at least we know why Harbaugh signed the extension QUICKLY...... Honestly... Harbaugh is a good football mind, you have to wonder if he really believes he can make a full scale college offense work, or if he's just going with the flow. The reality is that they got outclassed by a team that was then immediately taken to the whipping post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I can't tell if you're arguing against me, or with me... My point was that they doesn't seem to be a huge disparity between the two. I'm with you; was just anticipating that people will try to disparage your post because one of the two years included for Keenum was almost certainly a fluke year. I was pointing out that even with Keenum coming back down to Earth last season, he's still comparable to Flacco. Edited February 13, 2019 by DCOrange 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said: this is awesome. its blows my mind how much a playoff run nearly a decade ago clouds peoples judgment on this guy.... he's been barely average ever since. Obviously Denver thinks that his mediocre results are mostly the result of Baltimore's offensive system and/or surrounding personnel, and that he has the ability and leadership qualities to become a top tier QB in the right situation. I guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, DCOrange said: I'm with you; was just anticipating that people will try to disparage your post because one of the two year's included for Keenum was almost certainly a fluke year. I was pointing out that even with Keenum coming back down to Earth last season, he's still comparable to Flacco. Gotcha. Honestly, I didn't think Keenum was as bad as people thought he was last year. He kept them in games with a suspect offensive line, and a questionable coaching staff. I don't see Flacco as an upgrade, even though I have always liked Flacco. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 50 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: the bomb against the broncos was 100% awful throw. the safety, Morris, completely blew that play.... it was an awful throw and should have ended the game. Exactly my point. He’s a SB winning QB cuz a few lucky plays saved their playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, vincec said: Obviously Denver thinks that his mediocre results are mostly the result of Baltimore's offensive system and/or surrounding personnel, and that he has the ability and leadership qualities to become a top tier QB in the right situation. I guess we'll see. Does Denver have better offensive personnel and system though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I got this one right back in early January! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 and we gave the Patriots a 1st Rounder for Bledsoe.. ?♂️ smh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, HomeTeam said: Does anyone know if (or how) these trades before the league year are binding? Could a team just sweep in and highjack the deal with say a 3rd round pick? If so.. GETRR DONE Beane I was going to ask if you were new... but seeing you actually are takes away both the humor and satisfaction 1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said: and we gave the Patriots a 1st Rounder for Bledsoe.. ?♂️ smh.. Id still do that in that time and place. Edited February 13, 2019 by gobills1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Exactly my point. He’s a SB winning QB cuz a few lucky plays saved their playoff run. It wasn't that awful, and they did put up 28 points up til then against a good D. Note that he's about to be hit on his throwing arm as he releases it, and that affected the throw. It was desperation time and he made a play in tough circumstances. Was it a perfect throw? No, but consider the context. https://www.baltimoreravens.com/video/can-t-miss-play-jacoby-jones-70-yard-td-catch-9347455-old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: This is so Elway. He has no clue how to draft and develop a QB. Know thy self.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: and we gave the Patriots a 1st Rounder for Bledsoe.. ?♂️ smh.. Fire Take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: It wasn't that awful, and they did put up 28 points up til then against a good D. Note that he's about to be hit on his throwing arm as he releases it, and that affected the throw. It was desperation time and he made a play in tough circumstances. Was it a perfect throw? No, but consider the context. https://www.baltimoreravens.com/video/can-t-miss-play-jacoby-jones-70-yard-td-catch-9347455-old My point is, he is a lot more Eli Manning than Peyton Manning. He got a couple lucky breaks to accomplish what he did that year. But overall, hes mostly been a mid level QB in his career. That playoff run was his best overall body of work still, but honestly, he was as lucky to get the SB as Minnesota was to beat the Saints last year in the playoffs. Still he made the play, so not discrediting him, I mean a SB win is a SB win and he played well in the SB and other parts of the playoffs. So even with the lucky break, it was quite the accomplishment. I did however gasp at the contract he got off it by Baltimore, just felt like an emotional over pay. Then again, QB's are continuously over paid. For me, I think this is a mistake by Elway...again...at the QB position. Last year I said repeatedly;y he would NOT draft a QB, although I felt he certainly should have. Unless Keenum was the piece that got you back to the Super Bowl, you dont pass on a QB rich draft with the 5th pick. And no one other than probably Elway and Keenums family saw him as the missing SB run piece. This just seems like doubling down on the mistake, although I will add in Elways defense this isnt a QB rich draft. But if I were the Broncos, I would have either drafted a QB this year (IF there was one they liked) or let Keenum play this season out and then look to draft a QB next year. But Elway is always in win now mode, but I don't think he has the roster that can win now in a division with both the Chargers and Chiefs in it, not to mention the Pats in the AFC along with potentially rising teams in the AFC like the Colts, Bills, Browns, etc who all seem to be ascending and have lots of cap room and young talent. So, for me, this is a meh move even though it was a highly predictable move I felt like was coming, just like last year when I was certain he was foolish enough to think Keenum can help them win now. He won the SB not with the most potent offense in NFL history (they were blown out by Seahawks), but with an Elite D and below average offense...he is trying to replicate that again, but the issue is the D isnt nearly as good as it was that SB year in 2015 when it was Elite. Edited February 13, 2019 by Alphadawg7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 30 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Exactly my point. He’s a SB winning QB cuz a few lucky plays saved their playoff run. He was awesome during that SB run. And lucky plays happen for most teams during a SB run. also, this goes to show that just because a guy was good at something himself (Elway), it doesn’t make him an expert. But Flacco is a solid starter who isn’t elite. Draft a young guy, hope their d is still good, and that is a good foundation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I'm wondering if Elway thinks he still has a good enough defense to make a run, and throw his first round pick, etc.. to make a serious push for AB. He's likely not long in the tooth at his job if he doesn't hurry up and get that team turned around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: I'm wondering if Elway thinks he still has a good enough defense to make a run, and throw his first round pick, etc.. to make a serious push for AB. He's likely not long in the tooth at his job if he doesn't hurry up and get that team turned around The defense is really good (5th overall in defensive DVOA), and it is the case that they have not one but two elite DEs. Moreover, Fangio is a very good defensive coach. So they could surprise next year and get to 10 wins (11 max in my opinion, though--the division is very tough outside of Oakland). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 As it pertains to the Bills: This is probably good news for Bills fans hoping the Bills circle back and pursue WR John Brown in FA. He was on pace for a massive 1200+ yard receiving season with Flacco........before Lamar took over the job....... so it would have been reasonable to think he'd follow a waived/FA Joe Flacco to Jacksonville or wherever......if that team also needed WR's........but the Broncos really like their young WR's and with that high Flacco salary they probably won't be shopping for a $7M+ WR. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Reading this thread it’s still obvious that folks haven’t realized GMs need solutions at QB aside from the generationally great franchise QB. Flacco is good enough to win a championship- As is Eli, as is Russell, as is Foles and also having Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees doesn’t guarantee anything from one season to another, not even a playoff birth. Finding a qb solution that fits the current program it just as important, if not more than chasing unicorns... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeam Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 51 minutes ago, gobills1212 said: I was going to ask if you were new... but seeing you actually are takes away both the humor and satisfaction Id still do that in that time and place. That was meant as a joke. Misspellings was intentionally done to highlight said joke. I'm quite happy with Josh Allen leading this team. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Per Schefter Awesome news for us! According to ESPN the Broncos only have $18.3 million in cap space remaining with Paradis as a FA. Says they can cut Sanders for $10 million, but what receivers will that leave Flacco? Unless Elway already knows he can't keep MP. Great news all around for us. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25988157/grading-joe-flacco-trade-ravens-broncos-how-did-denver-get-here Edited February 13, 2019 by dezertbill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Rico said: Only a 4th for Flacco, while the Bills got a 3rd for TT. Beane is a genius. Flacco's contract made him less desirable than TT, however, so it's probably a wash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Makes sense, figured them or Jax was most likely Flacco probably would have preferred Jax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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