OT Jonah Williams in the first

[Buffalo Barbarian]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

No thanks.  They don't develop OT's in college the way they used to.  If the top WR is not available at #9 then trade down 8-10 spots and take the best C/G

 

trust me this kid legit, he isnt some spread big 12 offense. Bama is a pro style offense were they are taught pro techniques.  His pass blocking is elite and rarely gives up a pressure let alone a sack. His run blocking is good too and he has a mean streak in him.

 

Hes not an elite athlete but is a master technician who will only improve in strength and skill in the pros. We will do well to land him.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

The knock on Jonah Williams is that he's a better RT, read more about him, he started his career at RT where he dominated, has been a good solid LT but nowhere near the level he played at RT, seems to be the same predicament as we have with Dawkins who I think can grow into the position much like Williams could.

 

ive watched him all year and he dominated on the left. I didnt see all his games but in the ones i saw he didn't give up a sack or pressure. If they want him on the right then so be it either way i will take him.

 

 

6 hours ago, KD in CA said:

I'd be very happy with a top OT, but is 300 on the small size for a tackle in this era?

 

in the old era but in today's NFL you want smaller, quicker Tackles to deal with the smaller , faster DEs. Ends aren't 300 pounds anymore, they average around 265-270.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

7 hours ago, njbuff said:

We have no idea what this team is going to do in FA and the trade market before we make proclamations on who the Bills will be selecting in the draft.

 

thanks for the insight, so you are saying we should never talk about the draft until FA is over?? Cool see you in 3 months.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

I have read he is projected as G or RT, not LT.  Ideas on why?

 

Prognosticators are stupid. People get stuck on measurables and see short arms and automatically think guard. He has dominated elite athletes in the SEC , he will adept to the NFL as well.

 

 

6 hours ago, Cheesus said:

I'll pass on offensive lineman from Alabama , especially tackles.

 

 

Alabama
PLAYER	TEAM	POSITION
Jonathan Allen	Washington Redskins	Defensive End
Ryan Anderson	Washington Redskins	Linebacker
Anthony Averett	Baltimore Ravens	Cornerback
Mark Barron	Los Angeles Rams	Linebacker
Bradley Bozeman	Baltimore Ravens	Center
Tony Brown	Green Bay Packers	Cornerback
James Carpenter	New York Jets	Guard
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix	Washington Redskins	Safety
Landon Collins	New York Giants	Safety
Amari Cooper	Dallas Cowboys	Wide Receiver
Marcell Dareus	Jacksonville Jaguars	Defensive Tackle
Gehrig Dieter	Kansas City Chiefs	Wide Receiver
Kenyan Drake	Miami Dolphins	Running Back
Rashaan Evans	Tennessee Titans	Linebacker
Minkah Fitzpatrick	Miami Dolphins	Safety
D.J. Fluker	Seattle Seahawks	Guard
Reuben Foster	Washington Redskins	Linebacker
Robert Foster	Buffalo Bills	Wide Receiver
Shaun Dion Hamilton	Washington Redskins	Linebacker
Da'Shawn Hand	Detroit Lions	Defensive End
Ronnie Harrison	Jacksonville Jaguars	Safety
Derrick Henry	Tennessee Titans	Running Back
Dont'a Hightower	New England Patriots	Linebacker
O.J. Howard	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	Tight End
Marlon Humphrey	Baltimore Ravens	Cornerback
Mark Ingram II	New Orleans Saints	Running Back
Kareem Jackson	Houston Texans	Safety
Eddie Jackson	Chicago Bears	Safety
Julio Jones	Atlanta Falcons	Wide Receiver
Cyrus Jones	Baltimore Ravens	Cornerback
Ryan Kelly	Indianapolis Colts	Center
Dre Kirkpatrick	Cincinnati Bengals	Cornerback
Arie Kouandjio	Washington Redskins	Guard
AJ McCarron	Oakland Raiders	Quarterback
C.J. Mosley	Baltimore Ravens	Linebacker
Daron Payne	Washington Redskins	Defensive Tackle
Reggie Ragland	Kansas City Chiefs	Linebacker
Jarran Reed	Seattle Seahawks	Defensive Tackle
Calvin Ridley	Atlanta Falcons	Wide Receiver
A'Shawn Robinson	Detroit Lions	Defensive Tackle
Cam Robinson	Jacksonville Jaguars	Offensive Tackle
Bo Scarbrough	Seattle Seahawks	Running Back
JK Scott	Green Bay Packers	Punter
Cam Sims	Washington Redskins	Wide Receiver
Andre Smith	Cincinnati Bengals	Offensive Tackle
Damion Square	Los Angeles Chargers	Nose Tackle
Carson Tinker	Jacksonville Jaguars	Long Snapper
Dalvin Tomlinson	New York Giants	Defensive Tackle
Levi Wallace	Buffalo Bills	Cornerback
Chance Warmack	Philadelphia Eagles	Guard
Tim Williams	Baltimore Ravens	Linebacker
T.J. Yeldon	Jacksonville Jaguars	Running Back

 

 

I would pass on almost every QB from Wyoming as well.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, 947 said:

That highlight video isn't overly impressive. Normally when you see highlights of a 1st round OL talent (like Quenton Nelson last year), they are absolutely mauling people in games. I'm not seeing that in the vid, and even a clear hold is featured. Not saying he's not a 1st round talent, but I expected a more dominant highlight reel.

 

Looking forward to focusing on him vs Clemson.

 

Hes not a mauler but a technician, he doesnt give up sacks and turns his man in the run game ,dont need anymore than that.

 

 

6 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I hate it for a lot of reasons. 

 

First, if he's going to play right tackle, taking him in the top ten is not getting value. Having an elite right tackle is like putting lipstick on a pig. 

 

Second, a lot of people are advocating drafting him to be a left tackle and moving Dawkins to guard. I hate this as well. This feels like drafting a guard in the top ten. The difference between Dawkins and Williams is minimal if anything. I'm not going to replace a guy who has been solid for two years, not perfect, but solid, with a guy who might be solid. I am very much against top ten centers, guards or right tackles. Unless they are Quentin Nelson, Zach Martin, Alex Mack like elite players. Lane Johnson turned out to be elite, but was a risky pick in a crappy draft. Conklin has been very good, but has been hurt a ton and his team still hasn't gone anywhere. 

 

Lastly, drafting a left tackle in the top ten makes sense if the guy is elite. Williams really isn't. He projects to be very good, but if you really pay attention, he sounds an awful lot like Luke Joeckel. He's a technician, not a road grader, shorter arms, probably better at guard, struggles with speed rushers etc etc. Being a technician sounds good on paper, not so much when Aaron Donald or Jadeveon Clowney are smashing you in your chest. He's 6-5 301...that is long an lean and many analysts have mentioned that he's likely to weigh in at less than 300 at the draft. That's a problem. 

 

Again, I like Jonah Williams and I think he will be a good player, but I do not think he is an elite prospect. I think the idea of having him sounds good on paper, but he has some flaws in his game. This isn't a slam dunk and there is not huge upside here. He's a plug and play, might be solid guy. I want upside with my top 10 pick.

 

Again thats me. I'm an o line guy through and through, but these are my beliefs when it come to the draft. 

 

luckily he isnt great on paper but great on the field and ask the colts how their 6th overall Guard is doing.

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, from_dunkirk said:

 

 

 

The last time we drafted an OL in the first round was 2002, when we drafted Mike Williams at 4. How did that turn out?

 

If anyone watched Williams they saw a gentle teddy bear. But measurables got in the way made him go higher than he should because he was a house. However he couldn't translate that into performance.

 

 

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

you dont think he is dominate but goes before 9, ??

 

 

Yup.  You don’t think there have been solid players drafted top 10 because they were the best at their position in their class?  Happens almost yearly 

[Boatdrinks]

56 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

If anyone watched Williams they saw a gentle teddy bear. But measurables got in the way made him go higher than he should because he was a house. However he couldn't translate that into performance.

 

 

Yup, he lacked the “ fire in the belly” to be great and admitted as such later. GMs and scouts need to be tuned in to these intangibles, because without them the measurables don’t matter as much. 

[Richard Noggin]

8 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

The Bills could sign a few FA's on the OL which makes the Williams pick moot. That's my point.

 

Moot versus mute. Easy mistake.

 

And frankly, I don't think oline is a group you "fix" in FA. I think you draft and sign guys (but mostly draft) continuously until your cupboards overfloweth. Once you have a QB to build around, you can't eff around with patchwork olines (like Seattle did for a couple years, for example.) 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

36 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yup.  You don’t think there have been solid players drafted top 10 because they were the best at their position in their class?  Happens almost yearly 

 

he not an elite athlete, hes not a mauler,  however he is an elite football player and will be a huge asset for our line.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

29 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Yup, he lacked the “ fire in the belly” to be great and admitted as such later. GMs and scouts need to be tuned in to these intangibles, because without them the measurables don’t matter as much. 

 

exactly!

 

so tired of elite athletes who dont have the desire to get better or just are athletic but cant play football. This was the problem with whaley and many of the GMs we have had over the years.

 

Beane definitely picked athletes in Allen and Edmunds but also knew how hard they would work on their craft. This is why i am a huge fan of the culture they want to build here because without the right mind set talent means nothing and is why they traded guys like Watkins and Dareus.

 

 

[BruceVilanch]

I'm all for it, build the line to protect your asset at QB. Zay and Foster are developing, draft a WR, and more OL depth.

[Chandler#81]

9 hours ago, njbuff said:

We have no idea what this team is going to do in FA and the trade market before we make proclamations on who the Bills will be selecting in the draft.

? So we should just shut the Wall down until after FA? Complete conjecture means no discussion is worthy? You’re right. There’s nothing we can do about it, so we might as well get on with our lives and wait til we hear something on TV.  

Thanks!

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

Doubt he’s there at 9 or 10 but if he’s there, sure.  I just don’t think he’s dominant.  Solid OL.  Would rather trade down 

 

I think he may well be there at 9 and I am with you I'd be okay picking him but I don't think he is a dominant LT at the NFL level. He is very similat in style to Dawkins though his ceiling is definitely higher. If you plugged Jonah and Dion in together on that left side in some combo of LT and LG I think you probably sure that up for years to come. 

[Utah John]

What I like is that the Bills don't have so many holes to fill this year.  They could stand to upgrade at some defensive positions but they have no suck-o starters on D.  The O line and WR are the two areas of need, so the Bills can concentrate on those areas and bring in good FAs for depth elsewhere.

[machine gun kelly]

He won’t be there at 9, butt BB i’ve Already stated we should move up if needed to grab him.  Excellent OT’s almost never come available in fre agency or trade, and they cost a ton.  We should seek out Guards and Centers where needed in free agency and trades as they cost less and solidify the line with Jonah.  We also have the $ for one to two WR’s or a TE.

 

Thats the smart move.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

he not an elite athlete, hes not a mauler,  however he is an elite football player and will be a huge asset for our line.

 

 

I don’t think he’s elite.  

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think he’s elite.  

 

Nor me. I think he is a 1st round pick, but he is more in the "solid long term starter" range than "elite difference maker". 

[Rc2catch]

I’m all in for a trade down if it’s at all possible.

Theres a lot that will happen between now and draft time but I don’t think the drop in talent from 9 to say 20 is going to be that huge. Depending how our front office has these guys ranked I’d like them to load up and grab either an extra 1st next year or 2nd this year or something. Tackle is a need, but I’m not seeing Taylor Lewan kinda nasty lineman worth a top 10 pick. I’m no college expert so maybe I’m wrong I would just prefer to see the extra picks and possible extra talent added

[CSBill]

After looking at a few mock drafts (early, I know), I say trade down to the back half of the first round and get two first round picks where it appears there will be quality O-Tackles available and a few wide receivers. Come away with that combo and it is an excellent draft.

[CuddyDark]

12 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

yes because of course other positions dont need time to adjust to the NFL......

 

Tyron Smith was NFL ready right out of the box......and Jonah Williams has a LOT of his traits

He has played those positions in his college career....similar to Dawkins

I would be for Jonah Williams but he is in no way close to Tyron Smith. I do see one of two things happening, 1. He is ranked close to Ronnie Stanley and goes before we pick or two he's seen like Jonathan Conklin and falls to or past us. Then some say he's only a RT or a G. I'd still take him at 9 if he's only a RT. Depends on who's available. Defensive players might be once in a lifetime types.

[T master]

He won't be there at 9 that was one reason why i wanted the Bills to lose the game against the Fins so they would have a better shot at him with the other teams ahead of the Bills in this draft there's no way he makes it to 9 unless Bean pulls off a move to move up & get him !! 

[njbuff]

7 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

thanks for the insight, so you are saying we should never talk about the draft until FA is over?? Cool see you in 3 months.

 

 

 

It's all good. My point is that we have no idea how the draft is going to shake out right now, so it is very difficult to speculate on whom the Bills are going to draft.

 

Last year at the this time I knew the Bills were all in on Allen. I had no idea about Edmunds.

[CaptnCoke11]

4 hours ago, Utah John said:

What I like is that the Bills don't have so many holes to fill this year.  They could stand to upgrade at some defensive positions but they have no suck-o starters on D.  The O line and WR are the two areas of need, so the Bills can concentrate on those areas and bring in good FAs for depth elsewhere.

Oh there’s plenty of holes.. 

[Aussie Joe]

If they move up for him I will scream.. 

 

Im borderline on him being the pick at 9 but assume  Daboll would know him pretty well and if he signs off on it then all good..

[MrEpsYtown]

7 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

 

 

luckily he isnt great on paper but great on the field and ask the colts how their 6th overall Guard is doing.

 

 

 

 

 

Again I have no problem drafting a guard up there if they are elite. Nelson had zero flaws in his game. Elite no doubter. They aren't even in the same stratosphere. It's not an apt comparison. 

[TigerJ]

15 hours ago, NewEra said:

Doubt he’s there at 9 or 10 but if he’s there, sure.  I just don’t think he’s dominant.  Solid OL.  Would rather trade down 

He's a low risk pick, but may not have the highest ceiling of any offensive tackle in the draft.  Beane is a riverboat gambler in the draft.  If his first draft is any indication, he will swing for the fences.

[Bill from NYC]

15 hours ago, KD in CA said:

I'd be very happy with a top OT, but is 300 on the small size for a tackle in this era?

Believe it or not, this concerns me too lol. I don't know how much more weight he can carry but we pay pros to figure this stuff out.

 

I would also like to see how many times he benches 225 at the combines. Even though he has faced great competition at Tuscaloosa, EVERY DE in the NFL is a badass and he will need endurance.

 

In all, Jonah has a high ceiling and a not so low floor imo.  I would think that his floor would be a pre injury Andy Levitre. Remember, Andy was a fine guard for us for a few years. He was also close to the same size as Jonah and played LT in college. I think he will surpass Levitre and become a fine LT.

[MrEpsYtown]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nor me. I think he is a 1st round pick, but he is more in the "solid long term starter" range than "elite difference maker". 

 

And that's all I'm saying. I don't want a solid long term starter, who might not be a left tackle, in the top ten. I'm sorry, that's just no way to draft.

[CNYfan]

Gone by 9.  Jets probably.

 

The guy who scares me is Little from Miss. State.  I feel J. Williams will be gone and I fret over a reach for a guy who doesn't have requisite desire, that competitive fire.

 

Cannot miss on this pick, need a great player here. 

[Mrbojanglezs]

Think he will be there at 9?

[MrEpsYtown]

 

Also a lot of film shows he struggles with a speed rush, so bigger longer guys would overpower him and a guy like Jerry Hughes would make him look silly. He's not an elite prospect. I think he's Luke Joeckel. 

[Bill from NYC]

13 hours ago, from_dunkirk said:

 

The last time we drafted an OL in the first round was 2002, when we drafted Mike Williams at 4. How did that turn out?

It would have worked out great if Donahoe wasn't trying to prove how smart he was and drafted McKinnie who was 10x better than Mike Williams from day 1. Mike Williams was an overweight RT with a chronic ankle problem. It was one of the dumbest picks ever made by the Bills, a high bar indeed. It was even about as dumb as Donte Whitner at #8.

The Bills lack of devoting ample resources to the QB and OL positions is the primary reason why they have sucked for decades. Do you disagree?

[Aussie Joe]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Also a lot of film shows he struggles with a speed rush, so bigger longer guys would overpower him and a guy like Jerry Hughes would make him look silly. He's not an elite prospect. I think he's Luke Joeckel. 

 

So if this is the case then I’m assuming his coach from a year ago Daboll will be aware of these shortcomings and look in another direction right?

 

if they end up picking him and it turns out to be a reach then it would reflect poorly on Daboll..

[Dave Allen]

15 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

I have read he is projected as G or RT, not LT.  Ideas on why?

I've read he's light. It's said he could move to guard or center. 

[MrEpsYtown]

3 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

So if this is the case then I’m assuming his coach from a year ago Daboll will be aware of these shortcomings and look in another direction right?

 

if they end up picking him and it turns out to be a reach then it would reflect poorly on Daboll..

 

Well honestly I will say this, if Brian Daboll thinks he's elite and is the guy, I will support it wholeheartedly. I basically stating my opinion on the guy based on what I have seen and read. But I assume Daboll knows a hell of a lot more than me as a guy with intimate knowledge of the guy. I still won't like it, but I'd support it 100%. I just don't think the difference between Dawkins and Williams is big enough to use a top ten pick. 

 

I think Dawkins is fine and gets a bad rap here. He's been up and down at time, but he's a young player who needs to find consistency in his game. 

[Nextmanup]

What I'm noticing watching the videos is that he is a natural knee bender, has good lateral movement with athleticism for his size, and he always keeps a solid wide base with his feet.

 

That right there makes him better than most of the guys on the Bills O Line right now.

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Well honestly I will say this, if Brian Daboll thinks he's elite and is the guy, I will support it wholeheartedly. I basically stating my opinion on the guy based on what I have seen and read. But I assume Daboll knows a hell of a lot more than me as a guy with intimate knowledge of the guy. I still won't like it, but I'd support it 100%. I just don't think the difference between Dawkins and Williams is big enough to use a top ten pick. 

 

I think Dawkins is fine and gets a bad rap here. He's been up and down at time, but he's a young player who needs to find consistency in his game. 

 

Yeah Im not sure either about him being the right pick at 9 but you would have to back Daboll’s judgement about him on this..

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

 

Lets see if it meets my criteria for this offseason. 

 

Does this move help Josh Allen?

 

Answer is:  YES.  

 

So yep I would be on board 

 

Skill players will help Allen. 

 

Pass or trade down.

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Skill players will help Allen. 

 

Pass or trade down.

 

Well Mills, Miller, Groy and Ducasse certainly aren’t helping him..