Bills offensive talent trade value.

[PlayoffsPlease]

Draft picks are the basic currency of the NFL.   Kahil Mack was worth a two firsts and some other picks, even though his salary is full market value.  That is a pretty good player. 

 

Other than Josh Allen, do the Bills have a single offensive player on the roster that would garner anything better than a fourth round pick from another team?

 

I don't think they do.  That can't be a good thing. 

[Mrbojanglezs]

no.

[4merper4mer]

Lol.

 

Khalil Mack is exceptional.  Name an offensive player on the Jets, Dolphins, or Pats that would get anything more than a 4th.  Darnold doesn't count.

 

I get a grand total of zero.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lol.

 

Khalil Mack is exceptional.  Name an offensive player on the Jets, Dolphins, or Pats that would get anything more than a 4th.  Darnold doesn't count.

 

I get a grand total of zero.  

Robby anderson. With out looking at any rosters

Edited December 24, 2018 by Not at the table Karlos

[4merper4mer]

7 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Robby anderson. With out looking at any rosters

I knew someone would say that because he had a solid fantasy week.  He also has been in trouble and has had dime a dozen results overall.  I see a 4th for him but someone might cough up a 3rd.  I seriously doubt it.

[Not at the table Karlos]

Just now, 4merper4mer said:

I knew someone would say that because he had a solid fantasy week.  He also has been in trouble and has had dime a dozen results overall.  I see a 4th for him but someone might cough up a 3rd.  I seriously doubt it.

Did he have a good week? 

[chef4131]

Tom Brady for a 6th rounder 

[Shaw66]

24 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Draft picks are the basic currency of the NFL.   Kahil Mack was worth a two firsts and some other picks, even though his salary is full market value.  That is a pretty good player. 

 

Other than Josh Allen, do the Bills have a single offensive player on the roster that would garner anything better than a fourth round pick from another team?

 

I don't think they do.  That can't be a good thing. 

That's a good point.   

 

In fact, I'm sure they could get picks for some of the starters, but not any picks that would send you to the scouting reports to find a stud.   

 

Maybe if they traded ALL of their offensive starters except all, they could get ten picks in the sixth and seventh, and then trade them all for one second rounder.   

 

However, the fact is that EVERY team has guys in their starting lineups who aren't worth a lot on the trade market.   The Bills just happen to have all of theirs playing on offense.  

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Dawkins would fetch a one or two, Teller a fifth, Allen average one. Other than that don’t see anyone worth more 

[BillsFan1988]

26 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lol.

 

Khalil Mack is exceptional.  Name an offensive player on the Jets, Dolphins, or Pats that would get anything more than a 4th.  Darnold doesn't count.

 

I get a grand total of zero.  

Sony Micheal. Gronk will at least fetch a 3rd.

[PlayoffsPlease]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsMagic1 said:

Dawkins would fetch a one or two, Teller a fifth, Allen average one. Other than that don’t see anyone worth more 

I don't agree on Dawkins 

[26CornerBlitz]

The Bills lack talent on offense?  Who knew?!? 

[MrEpsYtown]

I'd offer Zay Jones to the Chargers for Forrest Lamp and a late pick. Phil McGeoghan can get his boy back and the Chargers get a reciever to replace Tyrell Williams. 

 

Zay and and Lamp are both disappointing second round picks. Chargers throw in a late pick becuase Lamp hasn't actually played yet so they are getting the more know commodity. 

[Bangarang]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsMagic1 said:

Dawkins would fetch a one or two, Teller a fifth, Allen average one. Other than that don’t see anyone worth more 

 

You are overvaluing the heck out of Dawkins and Teller.

[Buffalo03]

42 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Draft picks are the basic currency of the NFL.   Kahil Mack was worth a two firsts and some other picks, even though his salary is full market value.  That is a pretty good player. 

 

Other than Josh Allen, do the Bills have a single offensive player on the roster that would garner anything better than a fourth round pick from another team?

 

I don't think they do.  That can't be a good thing. 

I still think Shady as of right now could fetch a 3rd but no other player could

[BmarvB]

Who do they have on offense that's worth more than a 4th rounder? At the most, an aging Shady might worth a 3rd rounder

[4merper4mer]

11 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Sony Micheal. Gronk will at least fetch a 3rd.

Gronk for a 3rd what?  Shirley.

 

Michel is a nice player with decent upside at a position that is easy to fill through the draft.  Iffy at best.  

 

The point is that the OP chose an odd standard to assess where we are on offense.  It doesn't matter what picks we'd get for players, it matters what holes get filled through FA, the draft and eventual team chemistry.  Who is to say that adding a killer center can't help improve the right side or adding a stud receiver won't elevate Jones or Foster?  Who is to say that if we traded Shady for a 5th that he couldn't help a team for a year or two?  A lot of things factor in.  When we traded Lynch we could only get a 5th.  Seattle did ok with that one, but that doesn't mean we settled for a 5th.  It was his value at the time, not his skill.  Trade value is different than skill set.

 

 

 

 

[MJS]

Pretty sure it's past the trade deadline

[Victory Formation]

Dion Dawkins and Robert Foster have value. It would take a 1st in my mind for us to let Dawkins go. Average LT, above average G. Foster's value is unclear, maybe he's worth a 2nd, I certainly wouldn't trade him for a 3rd. We got some value on offense, there's a couple guys.

[mannc]

55 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lol.

 

Khalil Mack is exceptional.  Name an offensive player on the Jets, Dolphins, or Pats that would get anything more than a 4th.  Darnold doesn't count.

 

I get a grand total of zero.  

Robbie Anderson, Kenny Still, Kenyan Drake, Gesecki, Ballage and probably quite a few offensive linemen who I couldn’t name.  

 

I think Dawkins is worth a fourth.  

23 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I still think Shady as of right now could fetch a 3rd but no other player could

You’re kidding, right?  He’s not worth a 7th, at this point.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Dion Dawkins and Robert Foster have value. It would take a 1st in my mind for us to let Dawkins go. Average LT, above average G. Foster's value is unclear, maybe he's worth a 2nd, I certainly wouldn't trade him for a 3rd. We got some value on offense, there's a couple guys.

 

Dawkins definitely would not fetch a 1st based on the way he's playing and Foster most certainly wouldn't command a 2nd round pick at this point in his career. 

[mannc]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Dawkins definitely would not fetch a 1st based on the way he's playing and Foster most certainly wouldn't command a 2nd round pick at this point in his career. 

Correct.  Foster looks promising, but no one is giving up more than a fifth or sixth for him at this point.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I still think Shady as of right now could fetch a 3rd but no other player could

 

.......not if a GM values his job......

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Dawkins definitely would not fetch a 1st based on the way he's playing and Foster most certainly wouldn't command a 2nd round pick at this point in his career. 

Foster is averaging over 20 per catch, a 3rd wouldn't get it done for me. Dawkins otoh is a starting LT and probably an above average LG. A 2nd wouldn't do it for me. 

[Best Player Available]

42 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsMagic1 said:

Dawkins would fetch a one or two, Teller a fifth, Allen average one. Other than that don’t see anyone worth more 

Dawkins would fetch a 5th if the GM trading with the Bills was feeling generous.

LT is a position that needs upgrading. Kick Dawkins inside.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Best Player Available

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Draft value is as much about the contract as the player. This whole premise doesn’t make sense.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NewDayBills said:

Foster is averaging over 20 per catch, a 3rd wouldn't get it done for me. Dawkins otoh is a starting LT and probably an above average LG. A 2nd wouldn't do it for me. 

 

Don't worry because no team would offer those picks for either.  Dawkins has regressed from his rookie season and Foster looks very promising but ultimately is unproven.

[Pbomb]

45 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Sony Micheal. Gronk will at least fetch a 3rd.

Gronk for a third? Highly doubt that, he seems a shell of his former self. Wouldn’t be surprised if he is cut or retires after this year

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Don't worry because no team would offer those picks for either.  Dawkins has regressed from his rookie season and Foster looks very promising but ultimately is unproven.

Foster is Allen's favorite target and could ultimately develop into an electrifying #2, it would take a 2nd for me. Too much potential to dump for a measly 5th round pick, get out of here lol. Dawkins needs to go inside and I think if that were to happen fans would be a lot more supportive. He has value as a LG.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NewDayBills said:

Foster is Allen's favorite target and could ultimately develop into an electrifying #2, it would take a 2nd for me. Too much potential to dump for a measly 5th round pick, get out of here lol. Dawkins needs to go inside and I think if that were to happen fans would be a lot more supportive. He has value as a LG.

 

The Bills aren't looking to deal either of them so no need to worry about their trade value. 

[RyanC883]

Shady likely a 3rd or 4th.   Some team will look at the mess our OL is and give us a 3rd or 4th.  I could see the Colts going for it if they don't get Bell. 

[papazoid]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lol.

 

Khalil Mack is exceptional.  Name an offensive player on the Jets, Dolphins, or Pats that would get anything more than a 4th.  Darnold doesn't count.

 

I get a grand total of zero.  

 

Laremy Tunsil OT Miami  (1st)

 

Shaq Mason G New England (2nd)

 

Isaiah Wynn OT New England (2nd)

 

Sony Michel RB New England (2nd)

 

James Devlin FB New England (3rd)

[Shaw66]

Whether you agree or not, McDermott believes that young players grow and improve from year to year.  I think if we could get McDermott to come on here and talk about his perception of the Bills' starting offensive talent, a lot of posters here would be disappointed.   I think McDermott would say that he thinks a lot of guys, including Croom, Foster, McKenzie, Jones, Dawkins, Miller, Teller and probably a few others will continue to improve. I also think he would say that as each guy improves, he makes the players around him better.   It's particularly true with Allen - as he plays better, all of his offensive teammates will play better.   But it's also true about linemen, and even about receivers. 

 

Many people have commented that what hurt the Bills more than anything else this season was losing Incognito and Wood.  That's true, and not simply because they played well, but because they also helped make the people beside them better.    It doesn't take a lot of new talent to have a big impact on the team.   Suppose, for example, that the Bills get a stud left tackle in the draft and a quality veteran guard in free agency.   What's the impact on the offensive line?   It could be huge.   Maybe move Dawkins to the right side, send Miller or Teller to the bench.  Those are two completely possible changes, things that could be done very comfortably within the Bills' draft situation and position and their cap space, causing no real disruption at all.  But they could mean a huge improvement in the offensive line.  Add one quality receiver to go with Foster and Jones (and maybe some better offensive line coaching), and think about what happens:  Run game improves (with or without Shady),  pass protection improves (and we've seen how well Allen throws when he has protection), receiving game improves and passing gets easier.   More importantly, think about the complementary effect of all those things:  running game improving makes play action more effective, which helps the passing game.  Play action effectiveness makes pass protection easier for the offensive line.  Having a complementary offense reduces three and outs, which helps the defense.   

 

I'd be amazed if the Bills clean house like some people would like to see.   I think the Bills go to camp with all of the people who end the season as starters (except for any retirements and free agent departures).   But I don't think they start the 2019 season with all those guys still starting, or even on the team.   I think what we're going to see is a lot of rookies and free agents in camp, AND WINNING JOBS.   We're going to see Milanos and Fosters and guys like that taking jobs from guys like Mills and Miller.   It's going to be the process in full bloom, with competitions at many, many positions, and the smartest, hardest working, toughest guys are going to win the jobs.   

 

For me the big question is whether McDermott has what it takes and whether he will have the right team of coaches to be able to compete with the best coaches in the league.  

[C.Biscuit97]

I’ll ask the question: what could we trade Allen for now?  

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

no.

 

Succinct ... and absolutely correct.  My guess is that many of the Bills offensive players, including some that are starters, probably won't be in the league in 2019.

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

Laremy Tunsil OT Miami  (1st)

 

Shaq Mason G New England (2nd)

 

Isaiah Wynn OT New England (2nd)

 

Sony Michel RB New England (2nd)

 

James Devlin FB New England (3rd)

Who is trading a 3rd for a FB??? That is insane. 

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Who is trading a 3rd for a FB??? That is insane. 

Beane.

[PlayoffsPlease]

52 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Foster is averaging over 20 per catch, a 3rd wouldn't get it done for me. Dawkins otoh is a starting LT and probably an above average LG. A 2nd wouldn't do it for me. 

If you do yards per "catchable" it drops quite a bit. 

20 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’ll ask the question: what could we trade Allen for now?  

A top 10 first

[PlayoffsPlease]

31 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Whether you agree or not, McDermott believes that young players grow and improve from year to year.  I think if we could get McDermott to come on here and talk about his perception of the Bills' starting offensive talent, a lot of posters here would be disappointed.   I think McDermott would say that he thinks a lot of guys, including Croom, Foster, McKenzie, Jones, Dawkins, Miller, Teller and probably a few others will continue to improve. I also think he would say that as each guy improves, he makes the players around him better.   It's particularly true with Allen - as he plays better, all of his offensive teammates will play better.   But it's also true about linemen, and even about receivers. 

 

Many people have commented that what hurt the Bills more than anything else this season was losing Incognito and Wood.  That's true, and not simply because they played well, but because they also helped make the people beside them better.    It doesn't take a lot of new talent to have a big impact on the team.   Suppose, for example, that the Bills get a stud left tackle in the draft and a quality veteran guard in free agency.   What's the impact on the offensive line?   It could be huge.   Maybe move Dawkins to the right side, send Miller or Teller to the bench.  Those are two completely possible changes, things that could be done very comfortably within the Bills' draft situation and position and their cap space, causing no real disruption at all.  But they could mean a huge improvement in the offensive line.  Add one quality receiver to go with Foster and Jones (and maybe some better offensive line coaching), and think about what happens:  Run game improves (with or without Shady),  pass protection improves (and we've seen how well Allen throws when he has protection), receiving game improves and passing gets easier.   More importantly, think about the complementary effect of all those things:  running game improving makes play action more effective, which helps the passing game.  Play action effectiveness makes pass protection easier for the offensive line.  Having a complementary offense reduces three and outs, which helps the defense.   

 

I'd be amazed if the Bills clean house like some people would like to see.   I think the Bills go to camp with all of the people who end the season as starters (except for any retirements and free agent departures).   But I don't think they start the 2019 season with all those guys still starting, or even on the team.   I think what we're going to see is a lot of rookies and free agents in camp, AND WINNING JOBS.   We're going to see Milanos and Fosters and guys like that taking jobs from guys like Mills and Miller.   It's going to be the process in full bloom, with competitions at many, many positions, and the smartest, hardest working, toughest guys are going to win the jobs.   

 

For me the big question is whether McDermott has what it takes and whether he will have the right team of coaches to be able to compete with the best coaches in the league.  

Your question on coaching and talent levels are not mutually exclusive.   The Browns in fear of being embarrassed hung on to a coach that was 3-36 during his tenure and the guy replacing him has gone 5-2 since.  This is exhibit A in the case against the insane idea that good coaching needs many years to show up in the results.  McDermott has a number of pretty ugly strikes against him.  Never winning a challenge.  His ridiculous inability to separate Allen from Peterman and McCarron early on,  clock management issues, and the problem he has with the team committing penalties.  Personally I think he is a prima donna that will never deliver the goods.  I will be happy to be wrong. 

[billspro]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lol.

 

Khalil Mack is exceptional.  Name an offensive player on the Jets, Dolphins, or Pats that would get anything more than a 4th.  Darnold doesn't count.

 

I get a grand total of zero.  

 

I know they have some good olineman. The probably have some guys worth a second round pick there.

42 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’ll ask the question: what could we trade Allen for now?  

 

He’s still worth a top ten pick.