Arizona Cardinals: HC Steve Wilks fired (potential add to Bills staff?)

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The only reason that Jones and Dawkins are starting for the Bills is because the Bills do not have NFL caliber talent on offense except for RB (McCoy and Ivory), TE (Clay), and QB (Allen).  

 

I think that is harsh on Dawkins. He isn't nearly as good as the guy he replaced but he is a middle of the road starter type. He would start on another team next year if the Bills cut him tomorrow. I still think he'd be a beast at LG too, but that is a conversation for another day. Dawkins can actually play - he is just never going to be a star. That is different than Jones who you are correct shouldn't be starting.... I'd say he starts on 0 other NFL teams.

 

I think you are being kind on Ivory and Clay too. Ivory is a career backup level player and Clay is a former starting TE who to be honest might not be in the league next year. He is done.

[John from Riverside]

9 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Who's fault is it that the team is "undertalented"????   It's McDermott who was in charge of personnel decisions since some time before the 2017 draft, so the reason the team is so lacking in NFL talent is squarely on him.  He ran the 2017 draft.  He decided that he didn't need/want Watkins or Dareus or Taylor or Brown or Glenn.  He decided to pass on Patrick Mahomes and DeShaun Watson and he had to had have Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds so much that he traded up for them while players like JuJu Smith-Schuster, Leighton Vander Esche, and Darius Leonard were all available when the Bills original trade spot came up.  Aside from Tre White and Matt Milano, none of the 2017 draft class have been NFL starting caliber players by the end of their second year.  The only reason that Jones and Dawkins are starting for the Bills is because the Bills do not have NFL caliber talent on offense except for RB (McCoy and Ivory), TE (Clay), and QB (Allen).   While Allen has looked promising as a rookie, the rest of the 2018 draft class so far has been unimpressive, including the much-touted Edmunds.

 

The team's lack of talent, which is squarely McDermott's fault for a string of poor personnel decisions, simply obscures McDermott's incompetence.

First and foremost, he  doesn't recognize the importance of natural talent and is unwilling to accommodate it (as in the cases of Watkins and Dareus, and possibly Incognito).  He also rigidly attempts to fit square pegs in round holes.  Both Dawkins and Edmunds have struggled because they may not be physically suited to play the positions McDermott wants them to play.  The entire debacle with the blocking schemes for the OL in 2017 and the entire Nathan Peterman saga were both examples of McDermott's philosophy over reality.  Training and hard work can not overcome all physical and/or mental limitations.

Second, McDermott's teams have appeared to be too unprepared and too undisciplined too often over the last two seasons.  They have been blown out much too often, and in several games, the final score doesn't reflect how badly the team was out played from the opening kickoff.  It has come out "flat" on numerous occasions.

Third, the handling of the QB situation in 2018 should get both Beane and McDermott fired.  Why is a WR coach "coaching" a supposed future franchise QB?  Why the hell does Matt Barkley merit being given a two year extension to "mentor" Allen?  Allen needs a real QB coach not a confident.  The Bills need a solid backup QB not a street FA turned backup QB/pseudo-coach!  Then there's the whole stupid Peterman and Anderson comedy act.

 

But, hey, John, keep those convenient excuses for McDermott (and his henchman Beane) coming, although you might want to come up with some new ones for 2019 when your boys continue their pursuit of making the Bills even more irrelevant than they've been for the last two decades.

Blah blah blah

[NoHuddleKelly12]

On 12/24/2018 at 9:38 AM, YoloinOhio said:

He was interviewed last year for they Colts job and has HC experience ... not that crazy

The whole Rooney Rule thing helps...he will probably get interviews every year regardless of the seriousness of the teams involved or not. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

I totally disagree about the roster.

 

The roster is squarely on the previous GM that overpayed for guys and then gave stupid contracts.  The decisions by McDermott and Beane were made to begin cleaning up the mess - getting rid of underperforming players on larger contracts - Like MD.  Using assets that they did not see here long term (Watkins) to get other assets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.despite his faults, Whaley has become the "dartboard of convenience" in personnel matters.....was he ever a bonafide GM in control or more of a personnel gopher as in," here's what we want....go find them"?......according to Overdorf's 2008 promotion, HE was in charge of contracts administration AND salary cap decisions.....so how is JIMBO exempt from "overpaying for guys and stupid contracts"??...what did I miss?..........

 

 

Bills promote Overdorf to senior VP in minor restructuring

• Associated Press
• Published: Jan. 31, 2008 at 11:34 a.m.
• Updated: July 26, 2012 at 08:17 p.m.

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Jim Overdorf was promoted to Buffalo Bills senior vice president of football administration, giving him control over contract negotiations and salary cap decisions.

 

The move announced Thursday was part of a minor front office restructuring that follows Russ Brandon's promotion to chief operating officer. Brandon's promotion came after the Bills elected not to fill the general manager's role after Marv Levy stepped down at the end of the season.

[mannc]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes, I do. Around the league getting that Bills team last year to 9-7 is seen even more favourably than it is in Buffalo. I have a friend (a Bears fan) who thinks McDermott should be on the coach of the year shortlist this year for getting this Bills roster to 5 wins. We just have so little talent. As for that was the most beatable NE team.... I agree.... but this is the worst Bills roster since 2010 and it might even be worse than that team.

 

EDIT: I should say mannc - I agree that McDermott is partly culpable for the tear down of the roster. He has a hand in that definitely. This offseason is huge for both him and Beane.

The team McDermott took over was .500 under Rex Ryan, an utterly incompetent, checked-out coach during his time in Buffalo.  it wasn't a great achievement to get them to 9-7.  And of course, last year is last year.  Marrone got the Jags to the AFC Championship game less than 12 months ago and now he's on his way out of Jax.

 

 

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, mannc said:

I don’t strongly disagree.  But i believe McDermott shares a significant part of the blame for the week roster, and i just haven’t seen any evidence that the guy is anything more than a defensive coordinator who got promoted beyond his abilities.  

 

I don’t see anything smart or innovative about his approach and I see very little, other than his rhetoric and hand-clapping, that separates him from the previous 6 or 7 crappy HC hires this franchise has had to endure.  That was the most beatable NE team I’ve seen in 20 years and McDermott just wasn’t up to the task; in fact, it wasn’t even a competitive game.  If McDermott were fired on Monday, do you think he’d get another chance with a different organization?  I certainly don’t.

Yes, he is part of the blame for the roster.  He didn’t want bad seeds in his clubhouse....especially those that were overpaid.  Getting rid of them is part of the reasons that our Roster for 2018 was weak.  If you want to fire him for giving up a season in order to build better for the future, than that’s your right.  

 

Personally, I have no problem with that philosophy.  If we had kept, Sammy, Darby and Dareus while also overpaying for free agents in order to compete for a Sb in 2018, we’d have been mightily disappointed.  As it was, 2018 was a learning season for many of our building blocks in which we saw lots of improvement.  Lots of cap room and lots of picks to stabilize the foundation of what will likely be 4 more years of developing Josh Allen into the best QBs he can be. 

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yes, he is part of the blame for the roster.  He didn’t want bad seeds in his clubhouse....especially those that were overpaid.  Getting rid of them is part of the reasons that our Roster for 2018 was weak.  If you want to fire him for giving up a season in order to build better for the future, than that’s your right.  

 

Personally, I have no problem with that philosophy.  If we had kept, Sammy, Darby and Dareus while also overpaying for free agents in order to compete for a Sb in 2018, we’d have been mightily disappointed.  As it was, 2018 was a learning season for many of our building blocks in which we saw lots of improvement.  Lots of cap room and lots of picks to stabilize the foundation of what will likely be 4 more years of developing Josh Allen into the best QBs he can be. 

I don't want to fire him for "giving up a season in order to build a better future."   I think his firing could be justified based on his failure to demonstrate that he knows how to build and coach a modern NFL football team.  He's not terrible; he's just not good enough and that pathetic display against Belichick on Sunday made that clear.

 

Do you think when McDermott was interviewed he told Pegs that it would take three years to re-build what was then a .500 team?  I doubt it.    

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

I don't want to fire him for "giving up a season in order to build a better future."   I think his firing could be justified based on his failure to demonstrate that he knows how to build and coach a modern NFL football team.  He's not terrible; he's just not good enough and that pathetic display against Belichick on Sunday made that clear.

 

Do you think when McDermott was interviewed he told Pegs that it would take three years to re-build what was then a .500 team?  I doubt it.    

He’s proved that this season?  He led the team that everyone thought was tanking and headed towards the number 1 pick last year into the playoffs breaking a 17 year drought.  Over achieved.  This year, we were widely predicted to be the worst team in football and have the 1st pick.  We’ll likely have around the 10th pick.  Over achieved.   Imo, we outplayed the Texans, jets and fins and should have won each.  Easily could’ve been over .500.....and we were picked to finish dead last.  Let him have an off season to actually spend the money he’s been trimming.  To fire him now, is just stupid. 

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, mannc said:

The team McDermott took over was .500 under Rex Ryan, an utterly incompetent, checked-out coach during his time in Buffalo.  it wasn't a great achievement to get them to 9-7.  And of course, last year is last year.  Marrone got the Jags to the AFC Championship game less than 12 months ago and now he's on his way out of Jax.

 

 

 

Actually the Bills were 7-9 in Rex's final year and McDermott got them to 9-7 while removing three of their best players. 

 

Equally I don't think Marrone should be, or indeed will be, fired in Jacksonville. 

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Actually the Bills were 7-9 in Rex's final year and McDermott got them to 9-7 while removing three of their best players. 

 

Equally I don't think Marrone should be, or indeed will be, fired in Jacksonville. 

Actually, Rex got the Bills to 7-8 in his last year, before he was fired.  After his firing, they tanked the last game against the Jets, and used their improved draft position to pass on Patrick Mahomes and DeShaun Watson?

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Actually the Bills were 7-9 in Rex's final year and McDermott got them to 9-7 while removing three of their best players. 

 

Equally I don't think Marrone should be, or indeed will be, fired in Jacksonville. 

 

 

McD benefitted a lot from the element of surprise that a new coaching staff can bring. 

 

5-2 out the gate.........9-15 since.  

 

And the big picture measures like point differential?    

 

Sheesh these two McDermott teams have been a lot worse team than the two Rex fielded.

 

The narrative that he's done so much more with so much less is tired..........especially after his team scored their first offensive TD against the Patriots with a minute left in their FOURTH meeting.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

McD benefitted a lot from the element of surprise that a new coaching staff can bring. 

 

5-2 out the gate.........9-15 since.  

 

And the big picture measures like point differential?    

 

Sheesh these two McDermott teams have been a lot worse team than the two Rex fielded.

 

The narrative that he's done so much more with so much less is tired..........especially after his team scored their first offensive TD against the Patriots with a minute left in their FOURTH meeting.

 

 

 

They have been worse but Rex had much better talent and wasted it. I am prepared to give this regime the opportunity to line up with a team they have built. I do think there is a chance they are successful with it. It isn't a sure thing, no. But I see no reason at this stage to start cleaning house again. 

[SoTier]

14 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Blah blah blah

 

The truth hurts for cheerleaders like yourself.

[SoTier]

14 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

.despite his faults, Whaley has become the "dartboard of convenience" in personnel matters.....was he ever a bonafide GM in control or more of a personnel gopher as in," here's what we want....go find them"?......according to Overdorf's 2008 promotion, HE was in charge of contracts administration AND salary cap decisions.....so how is JIMBO exempt from "overpaying for guys and stupid contracts"??...what did I miss?..........

 

 

Bills promote Overdorf to senior VP in minor restructuring

• Associated Press
• Published: Jan. 31, 2008 at 11:34 a.m.
• Updated: July 26, 2012 at 08:17 p.m.

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Jim Overdorf was promoted to Buffalo Bills senior vice president of football administration, giving him control over contract negotiations and salary cap decisions.

 

The move announced Thursday was part of a minor front office restructuring that follows Russ Brandon's promotion to chief operating officer. Brandon's promotion came after the Bills elected not to fill the general manager's role after Marv Levy stepped down at the end of the season.

 

Excellent post.  Overdorf has been and still is, AFAIK, the supposed "cap genius" for the Bills for the past decade -- and a key piece in Russ Brandon's "money ball" approach to running the Bills.  The Bills are still playing "money ball" with the McDermott-Beane regime but now with incompetent talent evaluation.  The current regime is simply a reprise of the Jauron/Levy regime from 2006-2008. 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They have been worse but Rex had much better talent and wasted it. I am prepared to give this regime the opportunity to line up with a team they have built. I do think there is a chance they are successful with it. It isn't a sure thing, no. But I see no reason at this stage to start cleaning house again. 

 

 

Definitely not yet..........but sh*t starts getting real for this regime after this game tomorrow.

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Definitely not yet..........but sh*t starts getting real for this regime after this game tomorrow.

 

Darn right it does.

 

Everything they've done up to this point can be hung on the premise that they were working to get their guy at QB--one that both McDermott and Beane agreed upon.

 

Now that they've identified their guy, it's time to show a commitment to putting a winning team on the field.

 

A lukewarm approach to amassing talent won't fly this offseason. They better be prepared to get bold and aggressive 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Definitely not yet..........but sh*t starts getting real for this regime after this game tomorrow.

 

Absolutely. 

[WideNine]

17 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Excellent post.  Overdorf has been and still is, AFAIK, the supposed "cap genius" for the Bills for the past decade -- and a key piece in Russ Brandon's "money ball" approach to running the Bills.  The Bills are still playing "money ball" with the McDermott-Beane regime but now with incompetent talent evaluation.  The current regime is simply a reprise of the Jauron/Levy regime from 2006-2008. 

 

I don't think Overdorf is running around with a pen and checkbook,

 

PSE has an executive staff including an EVP of Finance that oversees Sabre and Bills operations... I get the sense that there is more oversight and less rodeo than there was during the Russ Brandon era.

[formerlyofCtown]

On 12/24/2018 at 10:42 AM, Doc said:

I'd just fire Frazier.  But is Wilkes any better?

 

I would like to fire Daboll and get Arians.  But he seems to want to only coach the Browns.

I think your take on Daboll changes after next season if we successfully fix the Oline.

On 12/28/2018 at 9:09 AM, mannc said:

I don’t strongly disagree.  But i believe McDermott shares a significant part of the blame for the week roster, and i just haven’t seen any evidence that the guy is anything more than a defensive coordinator who got promoted beyond his abilities.  

 

I don’t see anything smart or innovative about his approach and I see very little, other than his rhetoric and hand-clapping, that separates him from the previous 6 or 7 crappy HC hires this franchise has had to endure.  That was the most beatable NE team I’ve seen in 20 years and McDermott just wasn’t up to the task; in fact, it wasn’t even a competitive game.  If McDermott were fired on Monday, do you think he’d get another chance with a different organization?  I certainly don’t.

I disagree I really believe his teams over achieve.

[mannc]

10 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

 

I disagree I really believe his teams over achieve.

Do you think the Bills overachieved against NE last Sunday?  How about against the Ravens in the opener?  Or against the Chargers at home?   

[formerlyofCtown]

35 minutes ago, mannc said:

Do you think the Bills overachieved against NE last Sunday?  How about against the Ravens in the opener?  Or against the Chargers at home?   

Here's my wasted knowledgeable breath.

No I think they played to there level at that point, but how about that game against the Vikings.  How about last season.  I think everyone forgets we had 2 new starters (if you want to call them that) on the Oline and a brand new Offensive scheme which happens to be the most difficult to learn and run in all of football.

[mannc]

12 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Here's my wasted knowledgeable breath.

No I think they played to there level at that point, but how about that game against the Vikings.  How about last season.  I think everyone forgets we had 2 new starters (if you want to call them that) on the Oline and a brand new Offensive scheme which happens to be the most difficult to learn and run in all of football.

That’s a silly excuse.  Teams get new starters on the 0-line all the time; it’s part of life in the NFL.  

 

One thing that has been ignored is that the Bills have been remarkably healthy this year compared to most NFL teams.  How many offensive and defensive linemen have missed games for injuries?  I actually can’t think of any.  Other than Allen’s elbow injury, how many key players have missed games for injuries this year?  Again, I’m hard pressed to think of any.  And yet they’ve still managed to get blown out far too often.  

[formerlyofCtown]

11 minutes ago, mannc said:

That’s a silly excuse.  Teams get new starters on the 0-line all the time; it’s part of life in the NFL.  

 

One thing that has been ignored is that the Bills have been remarkably healthy this year compared to most NFL teams.  How many offensive and defensive linemen have missed games for injuries?  I actually can’t think of any.  Other than Allen’s elbow injury, how many key players have missed games for injuries this year?  Again, I’m hard pressed to think of any.  And yet they’ve still managed to get blown out far too often.  

Lets revisit this a year from now.

[Billznut]

On 12/24/2018 at 10:42 AM, Doc said:

I'd just fire Frazier.  But is Wilkes any better?

 

I would like to fire Daboll and get Arians.  But he seems to want to only coach the Browns.

This is funny. Why would Arians ever coach under McDermott? He’s 100x the coach McDermott is. 

[YoloinOhio]

He’s done 

[Reed83HOF]

 

[teef]

if he was here i'd hug him.

[apuszczalowski]

Firing a coach after 1 season? They will never find someone willing to go to an organisation like that......

[wppete]

1 and done.

[Bangarang]

Just now, apuszczalowski said:

Firing a coach after 1 season? They will never find someone willing to go to an organisation like that......

 

Of course they will.

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

Wonder how long before he starts working for McD as DC or an assistant DC

[H2o]

Just now, WideNine said:

 

Wonder how long before he starts working for McD as DC or an assistant DC

Or Ron may bring him back to Carolina. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 minute ago, apuszczalowski said:

Firing a coach after 1 season? They will never find someone willing to go to an organisation like that......

Yeah, but it’s a dry heat...

[apuszczalowski]

6 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Of course they will.

Not according to many around here who would say you cant fire a coach that early cause you wont find anyone good willing to come to a franchise like that....

[Albany,n.y.]

23 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Firing a coach after 1 season? They will never find someone willing to go to an organisation like that......

Yeah the SF 49ers have had a real tough time finding coaches.  

In 2015 Jim Tomsula was 1 & done as was his successor in 2016 Chip Kelly.  Kyle Shanahan went there without fear.

 

This isn't the 1st time the 49ers had multiple coaching changes in back to back years.  From 1976-1978 they went through 4 coaches.  Monte Clark went 1 & done in 1976, Ken Meyer went 1 & done in 1977, then in 1978 they outdid themselves, firing 1st year head coach Pete McCulley after 9 games, then firing his successor Fred O'Connor after the season where he coached the last 7 games.  Fortunately, Bill Walsh was not afraid to coach the 49ers in 1979 , lasting 10 seasons and finally providing some stability.

 

The graveyard of coaches, Cleveland hasn't had a coach make it through 3 straight seasons in a decade, including one & done Rob Chudzinski in 2013, yet they still get coaches who want to coach there and with QB Baker Mayfield, have one of the most coveted of the coaching openings this year. 

[Foxx]

On 12/24/2018 at 10:52 AM, Flip Johnson said:

I don't think Frazier is anyone's first choice. But knowing that Wilks will likely available is nice philosophic continuity if Frazier goes.

Ariens has come out today and said that he would be willing to consider Tampa because of his connections there. so, it appears that Ariens wants back in the club.

[Nebillzfan]

On 12/24/2018 at 10:10 AM, Gugny said:

Frazier will never be a HC in the NFL again.  He's already set the Rooney Rule record and was gifted the MIN job, where he and the team were horrible.

Yeah just ask the Minnesota fans. They Don’t think much of him

[4BillsintheBurgh]

On 12/31/2018 at 11:48 AM, Foxx said:

Ariens has come out today and said that he would be willing to consider Tampa because of his connections there. so, it appears that Ariens wants back in the club.

Makes me wonder what happened in AZ that drove him out.

[4merper4mer]

On December 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM, Foxx said:

Ariens has come out today and said that he would be willing to consider Tampa because of his connections there. so, it appears that Ariens wants back in the club.

Just stay out of the way of Rex to Miami there Bruce.