Kelly the Dog Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said: With this roster that’s verging on miracle status I think 4-4 in games he finished. You're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said: With this roster that’s verging on miracle status Saint Doug - er, I mean Saint Josh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, WhyteDwarf said: So, do you put that "drop" 100% on Clay? Or is it 50/50 bad throw/drop, so it's a wash? Its 100 % bad drop clay. To blame Allen at all for doing heroic level scrambling, running over 50 yards in the process to then throw the ball off balance against his shoulder while his momentum still going against the direction he was throwing 60 yards in the air that lands in Clay's hands to then complain that he should have thrown it 62 yards in the air is simply ignorant. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Magox said: Its 100 % bad drop clay. To blame Allen at all for doing heroic level scrambling, running over 50 yards in the process to then throw the ball off balance against his shoulder while his momentum still going against the direction he was throwing 60 yards in the air that lands in Clay's hands to then complain that he should have thrown it 62 yards in the air is simply ignorant. With a bum elbow to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyteDwarf Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Magox said: Its 100 % bad drop clay. To blame Allen at all for doing heroic level scrambling, running over 50 yards in the process to then throw the ball off balance against his shoulder while his momentum still going against the direction he was throwing 60 yards in the air that lands in Clay's hands to then complain that he should have thrown it 62 yards in the air is simply ignorant. I just don't see a any objectivity in a lot of responses... I can see Allen is already a saint and can do no wrong. Edited December 17, 2018 by WhyteDwarf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, WhyteDwarf said: I just don't see a any objectivity in a lot of responses... I can see Allen is already a saint and can do no wrong. You mean you didn't like that I brought out facts to the debate? Aside from my opinion that it was all Clay's fault, which one description of events that I mentioned are inaccurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Buffalo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Here is a good excerpt from Matt Fairburn's article on Foster in The Athletic (subscription) - https://theathletic.com/717759/2018/12/16/that-boy-is-balling-robert-fosters-historic-production-sparks-bills-win-inspires-fellow-rookies/ Quote Stat that matters: Not Josh Allen’s completion percentage If you just look quickly at the box score, you’ll see Allen completed only 50 percent of his passes for just over 200 yards and view this as a ho-hum game. Other stats help provide context, though. For one, Allen averaged 23.4 air yards per target, second most in the league this week heading into “Sunday Night Football.” His receivers also had an average of 2.31 yards of separation at the time of the catch (second worst in the league) and 2.63 yards of separation at the time of the throw (worst in the league). In other words, Allen was throwing to receivers who weren’t getting open often and was still pushing the ball down field like few quarterbacks in the league. On passes that traveled at least 15 yards in the air, Josh Allen was 5-12 for 142 yards and a touchdown. His 142 yards in that category led the league on Sunday. Allen wasn’t perfect. He threw two passes that could have been intercepted and had a careless fumble. But he also threw the ball away four times and made better decisions with the ball. Most importantly, he once again put the Bills in a position to win the game. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Allen Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Stats do need to be put into context. Then again, which context? For me, it seems that if you had him stop throwing as many intermediate and deep passes, and give him more checkdown options, his completion percentage as well as his off-target percentage (as judged by ESPN) would improve a lot. What I really want to see - and I'm sure it's out there somewhere - is a week-by-week breakdown of his accuracy on short, intermediate and long throws. My guess is that he's improving in all areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyteDwarf Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Magox said: You mean you didn't like that I brought out facts to the debate? Aside from my opinion that it was all Clay's fault, which one description of events that I mentioned are inaccurate? It was an errant throw as well, but I guess you will refuse to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, One Buffalo said: Here is a good excerpt from Matt Fairburn's article on Foster in The Athletic (subscription) - https://theathletic.com/717759/2018/12/16/that-boy-is-balling-robert-fosters-historic-production-sparks-bills-win-inspires-fellow-rookies/ I know for a fact that there is at least one poster in this thread that has no real understanding on the concept of context.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 hours ago, JimS said: Joined: 3 hours ago, Content Count: 61 Troll with an agenda. Hell he is up to 83 and counting......I would venture a bet that more than 70% are in this thread alone...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, WhyteDwarf said: It was an errant throw as well, but I guess you will refuse to see that. My position on that throw is as follows: If you ask any pass-catcher currently playing in the NFL, 100% of them will tell you that they expect to catch that ball with the game on the line If you ask any QB currently employed by the NFL, you might get 5 of them (Allen included) that would tell you that they could've thrown that pass Feel free to pick that apart if you're so inclined. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, cage said: Amen....anyone who can't see that he's a budding star is blind. If we re-drafted today and we had the #1 overall pick, would anyone really suggest the Bills would have taken anyone else? Honestly Baker Mayfield if we were drafting #1 overall.. 21Td's 3000 yds.... 63+% non adjusted completion rate. No arguing Mayfield is more polished early on But I think Allen is the proving to be the 2nd best rookie QB in this draft IMO Edited December 17, 2018 by ddaryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: My position on that throw is as follows: If you ask any pass-catcher currently playing in the NFL, 100% of them will tell you that they expect to catch that ball with the game on the line If you ask any QB currently employed by the NFL, you might get 5 of them (Allen included) that would tell you that they could've thrown that pass Feel free to pick that apart if you're so inclined. Clay got both arms under the ball, I dont think there is much room for debate on this. This guy seems like someone who was anti allen and came back disguised under a new name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyteDwarf Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: My position on that throw is as follows: If you ask any pass-catcher currently playing in the NFL, 100% of them will tell you that they expect to catch that ball with the game on the line If you ask any QB currently employed by the NFL, you might get 5 of them (Allen included) that would tell you that they could've thrown that pass Feel free to pick that apart if you're so inclined. But he didn't make the throw, a big part of the reason it wasn't caught. I swear, this is like a flat earth argument... Allen even admitted it wasn't a good throw. Edited December 17, 2018 by WhyteDwarf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, WhyteDwarf said: But he didn't make the throw, a big part of the reason it wasn't caught. I swear, this is like a flat earth argument... What? The. Ball. Hit. Clay. In. The. Hands. It wasn't perfect... but it was definitely catchable I'm hardly the guy that polishes apples on this type of issue either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Nelius said: The "new guy" is 100% a troll. He's running all over the board in a desperate attempt to be contrarian. He's trolling. Poster of the day award to you @Nelius I would gather he is flummoxed buy the use of contrarian..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, WhyteDwarf said: But he didn't make the throw, a big part of the reason it wasn't caught. I swear, this is like a flat earth argument... Allen even admitted it wasn't a good throw. And Clay said he should've caught it, so what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Clay is the last of the turds from the past that needs to be flushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyteDwarf Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Just now, thebandit27 said: What? The. Ball. Hit. Clay. In. The. Hands. It wasn't perfect... but it was definitely catchable I'm hardly the guy that polishes apples on this type of issue either The ball floated, it was a duck. If he had set his feet, Clay catches it. I'm not trying to remove all blame from Clay, but your take is absurd especially when Allen said it was a bad throw. Either way, in the future Allen needs to make a better throw there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said: he is 4-5 because of the trash out there we have catching the ball he is 4-5 because he is a rookie he is 4-5 because he is RAW talent with much to learn he is 4-5 because of the trash offensive line we have. Most Bills fans get this, A troll on the other hand would point out stupid facts like this,. Thus one would wonder.. With the amount of posts you have saying "He's 4-5 as a starter right?" is going to make people think you are a troll. He makes 4-5 look pretty darn impressive. I mean, it’s all him out there with virtually zero help. . Edited December 17, 2018 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyteDwarf Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Doc said: Clay is the last of the turds from the past that needs to be flushed. I agree, he is kinda useless, but it was still a duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, WhyteDwarf said: I agree, he is kinda useless, but it was still a duck 86 posts in 7 hours. you're on a roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyteDwarf Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: 86 posts in 7 hours. you're on a roll Is there some kind of limit? I'm sick at home today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 As Booger McFarland says "stats are like bikinis, they show you some things but they dont show you everything" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, WhyteDwarf said: I agree, he is kinda useless, but it was still a duck More like he was a duck with the way he waddled to go after a perfectly placed ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyteDwarf Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Doc said: More like he was a duck with the way he waddled to go after a perfectly placed ball. And Clay is a very good example of how risky free agent signings can be. I hope they don't waste their 80 million on a bunch of Clay's. Edited December 17, 2018 by WhyteDwarf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) As I see the argument thAt dropped passes are the cause of Josh's low completion percentage i think that for every drop he gets, he also severely over throws or under throws at least one to guys open, so it's wash. Edited December 17, 2018 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 The real issue here is that and I gather this from most of the posters is that JA is and I mean IS improving. I was very impressed with his new found ability to toss it outa bounds rather than risk the INT. That's called progress kids. Most of you see this - for whatever reason some do not. That and his ability to now find his meager WR's and get the ball out that way. Bottom line he took what the D gave him. Is he the midget in Cleveland? Nope but he is the Bills QB and his ceiling is higher than some will want to admit. JK didn't come out with 12-6 records right outa the chute, heck he even had a few years in the Trumpie League to further hone his skills PLUS he came from a football factory school. JA is gonna be just fine....time and patience....stats be damned....as several have already said and I agree - he passes the eye test now. First several games??? NOPE! But some time on the bench has led to a better understanding for the game and he shows it. All good.....now TROLL away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, reddogblitz said: As I see the argument thAt dropped passes are the cause of Josh's low completion percentage i think that for every drop he gets, he also severely over throws or under throws go guys open, so it's wash. I didn’t see the latter yesterday at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, WhyteDwarf said: The ball floated, it was a duck. If he had set his feet, Clay catches it. I'm not trying to remove all blame from Clay, but your take is absurd especially when Allen said it was a bad throw. Either way, in the future Allen needs to make a better throw there. It. Hit. Clay. In. The. Hands. Clay said he should've caught it; does that mean that your take is absurd? You seem to believe that how the ball looked as it traveled is somehow more important than where it landed Well, I disagree...and so does Charles Clay 1 minute ago, Success said: I didn’t see the latter yesterday at all. He had a few misses yesterday too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, WhyteDwarf said: And Clay is a very good example of how risky free agent signings can be. I hope they don't waste their 80 million on a bunch of Clay's. On that we can both agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Success said: I didn’t see the latter yesterday at all. I did several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 hours ago, WhyteDwarf said: He's 4-5 as a starter right? Considering what he has had to work with on offense, which has continued to change throughout the season.....I'll take that record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyteDwarf Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Mark Vader said: Considering what he has had to work with on offense, which has continued to change throughout the season.....I'll take that record. I sure hope I see his numbers improve like y'all are telling me they will when the "trash" is gone. IMO it's foolish to think the team will have much success if he's around 55% for his career. Edited December 17, 2018 by WhyteDwarf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, WhyteDwarf said: I sure hope I see his numbers improve like y'all are telling me they will when the "trash" is gone. IMO it's foolish to think the team will have much success if he's around 55% for his career. We shall just have to wait and see. Unless you are suggesting otherwise? Would you rather have a different QB as the starter for the Bills going forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyteDwarf Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Mark Vader said: We shall just have to wait and see. Unless you are suggesting otherwise? Would you rather have a different QB as the starter for the Bills going forward? It's too late for that now isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, WhyteDwarf said: It's too late for that now isn't it? So you don't think Josh Allen is the right QB for this team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Mark Vader said: So you don't think Josh Allen is the right QB for this team? His other username is AllenWillBust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyteDwarf Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: So you don't think Josh Allen is the right QB for this team? I'm not sure how anyone can answer that yet, we'll find out when the team is "built", whenever that is. I know that I was not happy when the Jets leapfrogged the Bills to pick Darnold. The way I see it, Allen is as predicted, minus the running ability. 2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: His other username is AllenWillBust I just joined today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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