Thoughts on Allen Pre Injury vs Post

[corta765]

I have been waiting a while to say much on Allen because I really hate over reacting one way or another. After the Packers loss I was ready to draft Tua in 2020 and after this last weekend I wanted to buy his jersey and fight anyone who said a poor word about him. For the record I was team Rosen going into the draft so I never really had bias for Allen other then once we got him I just hoped he did well. So now that I have hit back to base point here are some thoughts Pre Injury, Post, and what more I'd like to see:

 

Pre Injury:

-His arm certainly was explosive and I liked his willingness to throw deep... but his accuracy really was all over

-His pocket presence was OK... but he rarely went through his progressions before jumping

-His feet showed to be a great weapon... but he was running far too much out of pocket especially in the Packers game which a portion could be contributed to O line

-His competitiveness certainly showed.. but running the offense he did seem very green and unsettled at times

-During his first five and half games he had some good plays such as the Vikings hurdle or the deep throw against LAC to Foster.. but the bad were really numerous

-His running play did help gain yards.. but he put himself in really dangerous plays to get hurt

 

Post Injury:

-He is getting better at reigning that arm in. He missed Foster deep Sunday, but he hit Foster the week before and his intermediate throws are certainly more on point then before. The Deonte Thompson drop against the Jags was a great show of Allen looking downfield and finding his guy. He still needs to polish off his accuracy, but he in my eyes has moved to the next level of be average enough to not be a liability accuracy wise like before.

-His pocket presence is my favorite improvement. In both games he is going through his reads far better, stepping up more and looking for a play, and overall feeling where he needs to be. He still takes off sometimes a little too early but his improv ability is also a strength so its going to be some bad for some good

-I like the fact he seems far more in control and comfortable with the offense. You watch and can see it is his offense and he is doing it on his terms. That takes time for a QB to learn/gain confidence wise and it feels like now he is part of the flow not just trying to conduct it through the plays by Daboll. (Also Kudos for Daboll with his scheme and plays)

-Pre Injury it felt like you'd see 3 or 4 three and outs before you might get an ok drive mixed with maybe a decent play. Now the offense while not great certainly has some teeth thanks to the speed added at WR and Allen now making more plays consistently. He is not perfect in both the Jags and Phins games he left plays out there, but he is putting good plays together far more frequent that it gives the team a chance to score regularly.

-He finally is learning to slide or get out early thank god.

 

What I want to see:

So these last two weeks have brought some pretty big development by Allen which obviously we want to keep seeing. I want to see him keep making the offense his. Even if you are not Tom Brady and your Alex Smith or someone in that vain who is decent they still bring some standard of what their offense is and how they run it for better or worse. Allen is building his mold of a guy who can throw for big chunks while beating you if you give him the chance with his legs. Good, if he is comfortable with that then keep doing it and refine it so the good plays become even more numerous while limiting the bad. I would like to still see a few more deep passes called a game, last game was Foster and Clay from what I remember. Defenses already are on notice now because of his skill set, it behooves the Bills not to keep being aggressive and attacking which would take some pressure off the o line. I would like to see him keep staying in pocket a little more. He still needs to learn his accuracy on throws and while the scrambling is exciting and does have big plays, learning to make the plays in pocket will keep him healthier and is more dependable long term. 

 

Overall Allen's growth and play has me waiting now for each Sunday with excitement which is massive improvement compared to seasons start. I actually said watching the game that I can't wait to see the offense next year with a bit more talent now that Allen is finding his way because it already is really fun with how he competes.

 

As always and respectfully my .02

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

It looks like the game slowed down for Allen a little after the injury.  Looks like sitting and watching has helped.

[GRHater69]

I want to see how he looks when opposing defenses start figuring out a way to keep him in the pocket. I'm worried that our annual loss at Foxboro will give other teams a possible blueprint if the Patriots figure out a way to take that away.

 

 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

4 minutes ago, GRHater69 said:

I want to see how he looks when opposing defenses start figuring out a way to keep him in the pocket. I'm worried that our annual loss at Foxboro will give other teams a possible blueprint if the Patriots figure out a way to take that away.

 

 

What gives me a bit of hope is the final drive against Miami where it looked like the dolphins played to contain Allen. Allen stayed in the pocket and hit darts.

 

The back to back games with the Lions and pats will be a nice test to see how far Allen has come (Patricia and belichick)

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

It looks like the game slowed down for Allen a little after the injury.  Looks like sitting and watching has helped.

 

Exactly! I think the injury was a blessing in disguise. Things seemed to be spiraling away from him prior to getting hurt. He has regrouped and it seems like things have slowed down for him now. Let’s hope this progress continues, but don’t expect a straight line without some bumps along the way.  

[Victory Formation]

I had it:

Mayfield

Allen

Darnold

Rosen

Jackson

 

Wouldn't trade Allen for Mayfield for anything now though. If you think his adjustments post injury were great I think you're going to be pleased with Josh Allen year two. 

[oldmanfan]

I think you've done a very fair assessment.  Clearly he has a ways to go, as do all the rookie Qbs, but you have to be encouraged by what you've seen the last two weeks.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I had it:

Mayfield

Allen

Darnold

Rosen

Jackson

 

Wouldn't trade Allen for Mayfield for anything now though. If you think his adjustments post injury were great I think you're going to be pleased with Josh Allen year two. 

 

I think by camp next year where he gets 100% of the first team reps and more talented added...we could see another big step from him.

[row_33]

30 minutes ago, GRHater69 said:

I want to see how he looks when opposing defenses start figuring out a way to keep him in the pocket. I'm worried that our annual loss at Foxboro will give other teams a possible blueprint if the Patriots figure out a way to take that away.

 

 

 

the Fish weren't prepped for or talented enough to contain him

 

and (again i repeat this) teams are really lazy in the NFL and won't bother with THE BOOK until a QBs second year

 

or at least half the league can't bother to change anything from preseason except for injuries

 

 

[corta765]

21 minutes ago, GRHater69 said:

I want to see how he looks when opposing defenses start figuring out a way to keep him in the pocket. I'm worried that our annual loss at Foxboro will give other teams a possible blueprint if the Patriots figure out a way to take that away.

 

 

 

From what I have read the Dolphins did adjust the problem is he is so fast they still couldn't contain him if pressure got through. Probably the biggest chance to throw him off would be a heavy blitz that keeps him in pocket that forces him to throw. His accuracy is still just about 60% so that could be a thing. I am excited though (can't believe I am saying that) for his game against NE because he is so dam competitive I would love nothing more then for him to get a chance to lead a game winning drive again and to see him in that place in that situation.

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

From what I have read the Dolphins did adjust the problem is he is so fast they still couldn't contain him if pressure got through. Probably the biggest chance to throw him off would be a heavy blitz that keeps him in pocket that forces him to throw. His accuracy is still just about 60% so that could be a thing. I am excited though (can't believe I am saying that) for his game against NE because he is so dam competitive I would love nothing more then for him to get a chance to lead a game winning drive again and to see him in that place in that situation.

 

Belichick adjusts, and very few others have the wits or talent to do so during the game...

 

Fish are a mess, at 500 in a pathetic year for NFL excellece

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

24 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

It looks like the game slowed down for Allen a little after the injury.  Looks like sitting and watching has helped.

 

It gave him time to learn the game w/o getting thrown into the fire. 

 

He's getting better.   That last play where he was scrambling like a chicken with his head cut off was often a sack in his first 3 or 4 games. 

 

Get in the RZ and a bit of "panic" set in and he ran around looking for the perfect play.  

[clayboy54]

I agree, and as others have said, it would be nice to see him stay in the pocket longer. However, there is no way our current O-line can support that wish. This is especially true now that we've lost Bodine for the year. It's a shame because the lack of pocket and staying in the pocket aren't on common ground in Bflo. That's like asking Allen to stand right here on this land mine.

 

I'm afraid we can't expect him to be a pocket passer until we provide Josh an NFL quality O-line.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, clayboy54 said:

I agree, and as others have said, it would be nice to see him stay in the pocket longer. However, there is no way our current O-line can support that wish. This is especially true now that we've lost Bodine for the year. It's a shame because the lack of pocket and staying in the pocket aren't on common ground in Bflo. That's like asking Allen to stand right here on this land mine.

 

I'm afraid we can't expect him to be a pocket passer until we provide Josh an NFL quality O-line.

As much as we need wr help (and te and a rb under 30 that is good and not a liability in pass protect,) o-line should be top priority for improving Josh Allen's chances of becoming a franchise qb.

[TroutDog]

30 minutes ago, GRHater69 said:

I want to see how he looks when opposing defenses start figuring out a way to keep him in the pocket. I'm worried that our annual loss at Foxboro will give other teams a possible blueprint if the Patriots figure out a way to take that away.

 

 

The ‘fins tried by putting a spy on him (Kiko) and failed. You can can assign another person but then you face his arm. 

 

You pick. ?  Good dual threat QB’s are challenging to defend against. 

[row_33]

12 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

The ‘fins tried by putting a spy on him (Kiko) and failed. You can can assign another person but then you face his arm. 

 

You pick. ?  Good dual threat QB’s are challenging to defend against. 

 

the Fish are trash

 

it was an encouraging single game, don't fall in love with it

 

a real team might show up shortly

 

[TroutDog]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

the Fish are trash

 

it was an encouraging single game, don't fall in love with it

 

a real team might show up shortly

 

Kiko is a decent backer and could not contain him. 

[corta765]

8 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

the Fish are trash

 

it was an encouraging single game, don't fall in love with it

 

a real team might show up shortly

 

 

Jaguars defense is legit (better then NE) and he did well against them. I am very excited to see how Allen does against BB.

[BillnutinHouston]

Good post Corta.  Clearly were seeing development in many phases.

 

BTW your icon cracks me up.

[Victory Formation]

One thing that has benefitted Allen is Barkley and Anderson. They've been incredible. I hope both of them come back. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

His numbers have been better, certainly. We also came to the realization that speed is helpful at the WR position while he was out.

[Forward Progress]

I like the addition of addition of speed WR's (McKenzie and Foster) to the lineup to stretch the field vertically.  This is the perfect complement to Allen's arm strength, forcing the defenders to stay with the receivers, opening up the underneath routes and running room.

 

 

[wppete]

49 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think by camp next year where he gets 100% of the first team reps and more talented added...we could see another big step from him.

 

Completely agree. Cant wait to see him with a proper NFL offseason to get bigger, strong , faster and healthier. Also with an improved O-Line and some legit weapons at WR. 

[John from Riverside]

When the season started I was not a fan of starting Josh Allen because plain and simple this team was not ready for him....they had so many of their own issues that adding a rookie learning curve was not going to help.......

 

I think When Josh came back from injury the team AROUND Josh got a little better (not a lot better)

[K-9]

McDermott mentioned that Allen's injury allowed him the time to spend more time with Allen where they discussed why defenses scheme certain ways vs. certain personnel groups in certain game situations. And it seems like Allen has a better handle on that aspect of the game since his return. Especially vs. Jax. That defense is damned good and presents challenges to the best of them and Allen did a fine job. Now having two weeks to prepare was an advantage, but still, it wasn't too big for him as he looked in command the entire afternoon. 

[whatdrought]

I agree with above posters who think that the injury was a good thing.

 

I think it presents an interesting balance between the “learn on the pine” group and the “learn in the game” group of thinkers. I think we got lucky to have a bit of both. 

 

Allen is, and always will be an improvisational player (Think Cam, or Carson). With that being said, I imagine it would be hard for him to learn without truly seeing and feeling the game speed of the NFL. So when he had that brief chance, and then he had time to digest it and see fundamentally what he needs to do better, I think it’s going to be invaluable. 

 

He essentially got rookie season 1a, and rookie season 1b.

 

1a was a mess because the game was too fast and he wasn’t prepared. His mistakes were often and ugly. 

1b (seems to be so far) more about controlling himself and the game and learning as he goes. Mistakes happen (even some ugly ones) but they’re not nearly as bad. 

 

I also don’t know if we can count out how valuable having a couple of vets in Allen’s ear has been. 

[Mark Vader]

55 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

One thing that has benefitted Allen is Barkley and Anderson. They've been incredible. I hope both of them come back. 

That would be great. Barkley is a decent back-up.

 

Could we convince Anderson to come back as a member of the coaching staff? QB Coach Assistant? Or maybe QB Coach?

[VW82]

He definitely looks improved. I agree with the comment about the game slowing down. He's more focused on the rush pre-snap and less focused on it post snap. His eyes are downfield longer which means he's more of a threat when he does take off and run. Defenders aren't yet sitting on his runs. 

 

I still think he has a long ways to go controlling his high rate of bad throws. Everyone here talks about accuracy. He can be accurate at times, but the percentage of total throws that are bad to very bad is still high. He needs to get that under control if he's ever going to be a consistently good QB. 

[Victory Formation]

19 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

That would be great. Barkley is a decent back-up.

 

Could we convince Anderson to come back as a member of the coaching staff? QB Coach Assistant? Or maybe QB Coach?

Anderson you hope would never take a shot he's old, but as a 3rd stringer he should be safe from action. Barkley is 28 though, he can take a hit. If Allen goes down Barkley can hold the fort down no problem. Allen was extremely raw coming out, makes sense to have all that experience behind him. Wouldn't change a thing. I'd extend Barkley right now if I was them.

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

It gave him time to learn the game w/o getting thrown into the fire. 

 

He's getting better.   That last play where he was scrambling like a chicken with his head cut off was often a sack in his first 3 or 4 games. 

 

Get in the RZ and a bit of "panic" set in and he ran around looking for the perfect play.  

Also that was the only play he scrambled that much. Any other play and he would of gotten rid of it but with the game over without a first he kept the play alive until he could find a shot.

[corta765]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

His numbers have been better, certainly. We also came to the realization that speed is helpful at the WR position while he was out.

 

Yea its kinda funny that it took until mid season for the team to add Anderson/Barkley, Foster, McKenzie, and start Teller at G. But all of those things really seemed to help the offense settle down.

I am very nervous with Bodine out though about the line. They had stabilized to not being atrocious and I thought Bodine actually had been pretty decent. Groy has not done well this year and Siriles was rated atrocious by PFF in place of Miller. Need to hope the last bunch of games the line can hold itself to not implode.

[yungmack]

Your critique is spot on.

[gjv001]

Allen is becoming the most entertaining QB in the NFL. As he continues to develop into a franchise QB and the team puts better players around him, his entertainment appeal will make the Bills a marquee team. 

[elroy16]

A few examples of why I don't think the game is too fast for him are when he runs. The first was against the browns in the preseason when he side stepped a pass rusher near the goal line and then threw a TD. Against the jags he setup Bodine's block near the goal line to score. On Sunday he had the scramble where he had to hold the ball behind him and then raised it up over the defender to protect the ball. These are all split second decisions he's making on the fly. 

 

I can never imagine Allen clumsily running into his own lineman ala Sanchez, I think he sees the field too well for that.

 

 

I think it's just a matter of time before he's able to quickly recognize coverages and make quicker decisions in the pocket. I could easily be wrong, but the game just doesn't seem too big or too fast for him. 

[Logic]

1 hour ago, gjv001 said:

Allen is becoming the most entertaining QB in the NFL. As he continues to develop into a franchise QB and the team puts better players around him, his entertainment appeal will make the Bills a marquee team. 

When I first read this, I thought "this guy's nuts!". But then I sat and thought about it, and the only guy I can name that provides more pure entertainment value at QB right now is Patrick Mahomes. So...wow. That's a heck of a thing!