McDermott isn't going anywhere....

[Dadonkadonk]

On 11/6/2018 at 1:27 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Got a riddle for you. When is the #16 offense a top ten offense? And the correct answer is "Um, what?" You're talking about the 2016 offense, presumably, and they were the #16 offense, that's a fact.

 

If you're referring to the fact that we were the #10 team at scoring, that's correct, but it's NOT a stat that even comes close to isolating the offense. It's a team stat, maybe 60 - 70% offense but with a ton of contribution from the D and the STs. When the Bills offense scores a pick six, the offense hasn't accomplished anything even if scoring goes up seven points. And when the defense intercepts and returns it to the two yard-line and the offense loses 10 yards and kicks an FG, that looks great for people who think that scoring is an offensive stat. But it's not.

 

That was not a good offense. It was a decent offense, an offense that could run the ball extremely well but was well below-average at passing.They had the 11th-best average drive start, and that's because they had a higher than average number of really good starts. And in turn they left the defense the 23rd best average drive start.

 

 

As for how that's different from Rex, there's a vast difference. Rex came in promising he could reload. He was just so daggone terrific that he was going to compete for a title - and soon- with a QB like Tyrod. "Is this thing on? Because it's going to be on." He didn't need no stinking rebuild.

 

McDermott and Beane on the other hand knew that with the salary cap a shambles and no real QB that they were going to need a rebuild. They didn't promise any different. And while the offense is certainly worse this year at least the defense got a ton better and they brought in a potential franchise QB so that the future has real hope. Rebuilds this complete suck. That's who they are. That's what they do. And being handed a crappy cap situation made things even worse.

Yards don't win football games. Just like 300 yards passing in garbage time don't matter. But your points are well taken. The offense was average. Well McD has turned it into the worst offense in decades. Not just Bills offense. Worst in the NFL in decades by yards or points or whatever stat you want to use. So I would say going from average to historically bad is destroying the offense.

Second, the team had no cap issue and had enough cap room to keep Gilmore or Woods. I would have kept Gilmore on a franchise tag and let Woods walk. Said it at the time. Gilmore was better than fans thought and I still think Tams overpaid for Woods. But Woods has mostly lived up to his contract.  They have wasted millions on a fullback, overpaid for Star, and signed a broken down PED Murphy. The dead cap space is all a result of Beane and McD getting rid of talent. It is a manufactured issue. His FA decisions have been terrible.  Murphy, Davis, Gaines, Bodine, are all terrible. Trade of Darby for Mathews terrible. 

But in the end if Allen plays well in the second half of the season and looks like a franchise guy, both will be back.

 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Those of you who are explaining away the worst offense of all time by saying we and they knew this was coming; please also post your preseason record prediction. Something tells me your rosy outlook didn’t start now. 

[Chris66]

Ill give the pundits credit. They saw this coming.

[TwistofFate]

2 hours ago, Chemical said:

Those of you who are explaining away the worst offense of all time by saying we and they knew this was coming; please also post your preseason record prediction. Something tells me your rosy outlook didn’t start now. 

I predicted a 2-5 start.   May be able to locate it around the board somewhere. 

 

5 road games in the first 7 games with a team this young was trouble from the word GO. 

 

What I didn't foresee was KB becoming the absolute waste he's become. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

5 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

I predicted a 2-5 start.   May be able to locate it around the board somewhere. 

 

5 road games in the first 7 games with a team this young was trouble from the word GO. 

 

What I didn't foresee was KB becoming the absolute waste he's become. 

And are you one of those who still has faith in McDermott? My point was that people who blindly have faith in this regime still also probably predicted a decent record before the season because they’re constantly in denial despite all evidence to the contrary. Yet they still use the excuse that we all knew it would be bad.

[formerlyofCtown]

On 11/6/2018 at 3:27 AM, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

McDumbass has shown he is clueless on the offensive side of the ball. 

 

It's time to move to on from him and bring in an offensive mind. 

It has nothing to do with Two unexpected losses on the Oline then?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

On 11/7/2018 at 6:03 PM, iinii said:

By that reasoning you better give Daboll two more years. He doesn’t know who will be playing next year, at least not the bulk of the offense. They are either in college or playing elsewhere this year. 

Who hired the OC?

 

McD. Just read an article a week or two ago that basically stated considering the talent he has to work with , Daboll's done pretty well.   So not really faulting him there, lets first see what he can do with some talent on the team.  Reading your response the other poster, kind of stats the same.

 

 

[97bills]

I swear I hope all bills fans ant this stupid 2 years and you want to fire him lol he is trying to build something good here that takes 4/5 years buddy. 

[Patrick Duffy]

5 minutes ago, 97bills said:

I swear I hope all bills fans ant this stupid 2 years and you want to fire him lol he is trying to build something good here that takes 4/5 years buddy. 

I certainly hope it doesn't take 4 to 5 years. I think it should at least start to take form next season. 4 or 5 years? LOL come on man....

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Ya regardless this going to be a bad season. I think McDermott stays.but next year is under 4 to 5 wins might not get to year 4. But I think McDermott stays regardless too this season

 

[Fan in Chicago]

53 minutes ago, 97bills said:

I swear I hope all bills fans ant this stupid 2 years and you want to fire him lol he is trying to build something good here that takes 4/5 years buddy. 

Care to give examples of teams which have taken 4-5 years to rebuild successfully after being bad for 15+ years?

[mead107]

Read your letter you got when your season tickets came.  Couple of years to build.  

[KD in CA]

On 11/6/2018 at 11:04 AM, LABILLBACKER said:

The fact that this team drastically over achieved last year backing into the playoffs with a miracle Dalton throw sent the fanbase into a very unrealistic expectation position. Last year was supposed to be the tank season of the process. Instead it's this year. So in other words the process will now take 4 years instead of 3. If this organization doesn't draft and sign 90% offense, they will lose this fanbase and their jobs.

 

Agreed on the first part about overachieving and getting a lucky break to make the playoffs, but it was always going to be a two year rebuild considering the cap space.  So like it or not, they got rid of everyone they didn't see in a Bills uni in 2019, regardless of how it impacted '17 (turns out very little) or '18 (turns out quite a bit).

 

And by the way, people drastically underestimate how much the unexpected losses of Wood and Incognito killed this season.  If those guys are playing, McCoy is still running, Allen is protected better, and they don't have the worst offense in history.  Yes, they'd still suck but it wouldn't be this level of dumpster fire.

 

 

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Care to give examples of teams which have taken 4-5 years to rebuild successfully after being bad for 15+ years?

 

You'd have to go back a few decades but I'm sure a fan in Chicago can think of at least one example!

Edited November 9, 2018 by KD in CA

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

I certainly hope it doesn't take 4 to 5 years. I think it should at least start to take form next season. 4 or 5 years? LOL come on man....

Understand that the 4 to 5 years started a season ago....not this year.

 

Year 1.....dumping players/salaries for draft picks......shedding salary......evaluating Tyrod Taylor

Year 2 (this ear) eating huge dead cap sandwich......team is not good due to lack of offensive talent.....but defense i nearly complete.  AQUIRING OF QB

Year 3 (next year) large focus on offensive side of the ball.....fine tuning the defense and making sure depth is there.....QB has year in system......team looks promising (possibly a wildcard?)

Year 4 (the year after) legit playoff push......QB now has 2 years in system.....offensive talent is set and now aquiring depth......defense is very good

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Understand that the 4 to 5 years started a season ago....not this year.

 

Year 1.....dumping players/salaries for draft picks......shedding salary......evaluating Tyrod Taylor

Year 2 (this ear) eating huge dead cap sandwich......team is not good due to lack of offensive talent.....but defense i nearly complete.  AQUIRING OF QB

Year 3 (next year) large focus on offensive side of the ball.....fine tuning the defense and making sure depth is there.....QB has year in system......team looks promising (possibly a wildcard?)

Year 4 (the year after) legit playoff push......QB now has 2 years in system.....offensive talent is set and now aquiring depth......defense is very good

 

 

if next year the offense doesn't start to improve next season, IMO MCD seat will begin getting pretty dam hot.And(hence why i said " should start to take form" ,or at least improve next season, and yes, I know it started a season ago.

 

If the offense looks like ***** all throughout next season like it does now (which will be season 3), he doesnt make it to year 5, lucky to make 4 IMO

Edited November 9, 2018 by Patrick_Duffy

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 11/7/2018 at 12:36 PM, Nihilarian said:

You have to realize that McD hired Beane and was probably following what he asked to do by the HC. McD listened to his line coach who told him the line would be fine and he also listened to his OC who told him Peterman would be fine.

 

Understand that these men have conferences in which they go to great lengths to talk over the roster, sometimes arguing. While Beane is somewhat culpable for the product on the field, he is also under McD on the org chart. At this point the buck should stop with the HC. 

 

I would keep Beane simply for the way he masterfully was able to obtain Josh Allen in the draft. So many Bills fans wanted the team to give up the farm trade up to that #2 spot with the NY Giants to draft Josh Rosen...the chosen! I think Beane worked some magic and got the best QB, LBer in this years draft. 

 

Now, someone needs to be held accountable for the Buffalo Bills 2018 offense which could not only set franchise records for being bad as they can set NFL records...they are close. If McD doesn't fires his OC then he needs to go. 

 

If you recall they really loved Rex Ryan too. They fired him in his 2nd year after regressing one game from 8-8 to 7-8 with one game left in the season. This bye week is going to be very interesting. 

 

Lol  are you serious!? Guarantee McDermott is not fired after the bye and after this season.

 

the Pegulas want stability and the only reason they canned rex is because he sold them a bill of goods. 

 

McD is here for the long haul.

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 11/9/2018 at 11:57 AM, ScottLaw said:

Your cap argument is a farce. They simply wanted to bring in their own guys and build their own team, regardless of the YOUNG TALENT already in place. How do you figure their cap was a mess when they signed Poyer and Hyde in McDermotts first offseason here? 

 

They didnt need to do what they did. They choose an extremely difficult path to get this team to be a perennial contender and honestly I'd be shocked if they get to see it through. I think they'll both be gone by the end of year three when the offense and team are still struggling, but I've been wrong before.

 

 

 

Sorry, man, but that cap thing is true. And pretty much everyone knows it, nationally. It's really only a few Bills fans arguing otherwise.

 

The reason they were able to sign Poyer and Hyde in McDermott's first offseason here was because they had already started a cap purge and knew they had to continue it the next year. Together those two totalled less than $10 mill a year. Those were not big signings. They were both very reasonable. For example, they signed those two for just over half of what they saved by trading Watkins.

 

They signed Poyer and Hyde because they felt they could do that and still get the cap in line so that by 2019 they would have a ton of money to spend. And as they have shown, they were correct.

 

They absolutely did have to do what they did. First because they had told the Pegulas at the interview that they would get the cap in order by the end of 2018. And second because it's how good teams operate. You occasionally see good teams cornering themselves if they feel they're in a Super Bowl window. Needless to say, we are not in a Super Bowl window.

 

And yeah, they chose a difficult path. The only more difficult path would have been all the others. There is no easy path from a team in cap trouble with an average lineup and no QB to being a consistent contender. A complete rebuild is almost certainly the highest-percentage way to go. But there is no easy way. Expect Beane to be here five years at a minimum unless the team absolutely self-combusts over the next couple of years.  But looking at their drafts the past two years, my guess is that we'll still see both of them here for another five years or so at least.

[Thurman#1]

On 11/8/2018 at 11:50 PM, Dadonkadonk said:

Yards don't win football games. Just like 300 yards passing in garbage time don't matter. But your points are well taken. The offense was average. Well McD has turned it into the worst offense in decades. Not just Bills offense. Worst in the NFL in decades by yards or points or whatever stat you want to use. So I would say going from average to historically bad is destroying the offense.

Second, the team had no cap issue and had enough cap room to keep Gilmore or Woods. I would have kept Gilmore on a franchise tag and let Woods walk. Said it at the time. Gilmore was better than fans thought and I still think Tams overpaid for Woods. But Woods has mostly lived up to his contract.  They have wasted millions on a fullback, overpaid for Star, and signed a broken down PED Murphy. The dead cap space is all a result of Beane and McD getting rid of talent. It is a manufactured issue. His FA decisions have been terrible.  Murphy, Davis, Gaines, Bodine, are all terrible. Trade of Darby for Mathews terrible. 

But in the end if Allen plays well in the second half of the season and looks like a franchise guy, both will be back.

 

 

Of course they'll be back. Allen could sit on the bench or look like developmental rookies look and they will be back.

 

And yes the offense got worse, but this is to be expected. Getting worse is what happens to teams doing a near-complete rebuild. Particularly teams that started out in serious cap trouble. And yes they were in cap trouble.

 

Out of all the people we lost in this cap purge, I agree with you that Woods and Gilmore were the biggest losses. I wanted to keep them both at the time. They were the only two I felt that way about.

 

And they didn't trade Darby for Matthews. They traded Darby for a 3rd round pick so that they could be sure they'd have enough trade capital to be able to get one of the top four QBs, and got Matthews on top of that.

 

Lotulelei is worth every penny. And how come you folks who spend so much time talking about how bad the offense is don't spend the same amount of time talking about how good the defense is? Exactly. Because you only want to mention what's wrong. Things going right don't fit your narrative.

 

And yes the dead cap space is because they got rid of "talent". If they had kept that "talent" they'd have almost no dead cap space but almost exactly the same cap situation this year (the money they spent on dead cap space this year is almost exactly what they saved this year on salary and roster bonuses and stuff. But the huge advantage of accumulating that dead cap space this year is that next year those guys are off the books, whereas if they weren't we'd still be in cap trouble the next few years paying guys like Sammy (assuming we'd ponied up to keep him) and Dareus to underperform their contracts.

 

Murphy's been alright when healthy. "Davis, Gaines, Bodine all terrible"? Good lord, what a horrible point. At least it makes your objective here - finding anything to nitpick and B word about - as plain as the nose on your face. Davis was OK but quit. Costing us less than a mill on the cap assuming they get his signing bonus back, which they are likely to do. Gaines is like veteran minimum for half a season. These guys aren't expensive. Outside of Davis quitting they were cheap fill-ins who are playing like that. They also brought in Poyer and Hyde. Strangely, you didn't mention them along with Davis, Gaines and Bodine. Wonder why that is.

[downunderbill]

On 11/7/2018 at 6:22 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because it was completely, 100% Luck.  Trust me, I used to love bringing up Jauron’s 13-3, coach of the year season in defending him.

 

this is one of the worst offenses in the history of the nfl in a league where it begs you to score.  SM is on his second OC and has 2 of his hand picked Qbs.  It is a complete disaster.

 

How was it 100% luck? Did they not win 9 games just like the other teams that missed out.

[US Egg]

McDermott isn't going anywhere....

 

....well, for starters no one else would want him as their HC.

Edited November 13, 2018 by I am the egg man

[billsfan1959]

17 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Nationally? Who nationally talks about the Bills besides when they completely embarrass themselves in a game? The national media couldn't care less about the Bills and usually never have a good pulse on what's really going on with the team. 

 

Simple question. How much cap room would the Bills have this offseason if they kept Watkins, Dareus, Glenn, and Darby and not signed/traded for Benjamin, Star, Murphy, and Davis?

Apparently, you and the national media have a lot in common.

[CaptnCoke11]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Nationally? Who nationally talks about the Bills besides when they completely embarrass themselves in a game? The national media couldn't care less about the Bills and usually never have a good pulse on what's really going on with the team. 

 

Simple question. How much cap room would the Bills have this offseason if they kept Watkins, Dareus, Glenn, and Darby and not signed/traded for Benjamin, Star, Murphy, and Davis?

Just some quick math but somewhere around 55 million give or take a few

Edited November 13, 2018 by CaptnCoke11

[billsfan1959]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Says the guy who adds nothing.

Tell us again how they got rid of Darius because he wasn't their guy (which doesn't explain keeping Hughes and others) - and not because he was a lazy, under-performing head case, who didn't perform to the level of his contract on anywhere near a consistent basis. BTW, the Bills' rushing defense has a better DVOA than Jax.

 

Talk about adding nothing....

[Magox]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Your mad I see. 

 

The initial repercussions of the Dareus trade resulted in teams running up and down the field on us. Dareus was starting to play very well for the Bills before they traded him and continued that good play with the Jags. It was extremely odd and bad timing. They've since fixed the issue, but Star isn't the player Dareus is at his best. 

 

You're still clamoring for the days of overpriced and underperforming former players?   Let it go 

[billsfan1959]

35 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Your mad I see. 

 

The initial repercussions of the Dareus trade resulted in teams running up and down the field on us. Dareus was starting to play very well for the Bills before they traded him and continued that good play with the Jags. It was extremely odd and bad timing. They've since fixed the issue, but Star isn't the player Dareus is at his best. 

Not mad at all. There were times teams ran up and down the field on us when Darius was here. When Darius wanted to play, he was elite. The problem was that he never played that way on a consistent basis and was nowhere near the dominant player (again, on a consistent basis) to warrant the contract he was awarded. It may have had initial repercussions; however, IMHO, the long-term benefits outweigh those repercussions - and it is not even close.

Edited November 13, 2018 by billsfan1959

[Magox]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

 

 

Simply stating that fans saying them being in "cap hell" was the reason these guys are gone is completely untrue. 

 

And those days are still here brother. Benjamin, Murphy and Star are on the team.??

Benjamin will be gone, Star is playing better than Dareus last two years with us and Murphy if he can stay healthy which is a big if had been playing at about that contract level.

 

And if all three of those players were gone, I wouldn't be complaining about it.  

Edited November 13, 2018 by Magox

[teef]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

You realize just because you don't get market value for every FA you sign and overpay a little doesn't make it a bad signing? 

 

You think the Chiefs care that they may have slightly overpaid for Sammy? 

 

 

yet you complain that the bills overpaid for star.

 

and the chiefs didn't slightly over pay for sammy.  they way overpaid for him.  16 mill a year to be the 3rd wr is nuts.  they'll come to that conclusion too.

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Nationally? Who nationally talks about the Bills besides when they completely embarrass themselves in a game? The national media couldn't care less about the Bills and usually never have a good pulse on what's really going on with the team. 

 

Simple question. How much cap room would the Bills have this offseason if they kept Watkins, Dareus, Glenn, and Darby and not signed/traded for Benjamin, Star, Murphy, and Davis?

 

 

Your question is subtly spinning. Watkins, Dareus, Glenn and Darby aren't the only moves they made to save cap. They made a ton of them.

 

So, to unspin, I'll ask the correct question:

 

Simple question: How much cap room would the Bills have this offseason if they hadn't rebuilt, if they'd reloaded instead.

 

Simple answer: A whole shitload less. Instead of being #3 in the league next year in available cap rankings they'd probably be somewhere similar to what they were last year going into the offseason, #26. We'd still probably have Tyrod at QB, and Robert Woods (ah, Tyrod racking up the yards throwing to Watkins and Woods. Yeah, the good old days and all those 300 yard games. I remember it well. From my imagination.) And Gilmore. Marquise Goodwin, maybe.

 

 

 

Now to look at your (well-spun) question alone, and give a rough answer based on average salary per year (if you want to be more specific, do your own research, which you could have done in the first place):

 

Watkins: $16 mill

Dareus:  $16 mill

Glenn: $12 mill

Darby: Hard to say as this is the last year on his contract. Would we have franchised him? I'll say yes, though he's not playing all that well this year in Philly. $16 mill.

 

Total $60 mill

 

Lotulelei $10 mill

Benjamin $0 (his contract ends this year and I don't see them re-signing him, do you?)

Murphy $7.5 mill

Davis $0 He retired. I'm guessing the Bills go after his bonuses and guarantees. Could they be denied? Maybe, but my guess is they win.

 

Total $17.5 mill

 

Net difference $42.5 mill, just on the guys you mentioned.

 

Throw on Tyrod's salary, Gilmore's, Robert Woods', and Goodwin's and since they're reloading instead of rebuilding they move as much of Incognito's and Wood's dead money from this year to next ... and a few other reload rather than rebuild moves and you're right back in the salary cap crap.

 

And you don't have Josh Allen unless you threw in next year's first or more to go from #22 to #7.

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

17 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Nationally? Who nationally talks about the Bills besides when they completely embarrass themselves in a game? The national media couldn't care less about the Bills and usually never have a good pulse on what's really going on with the team.

 

 

Who talks nationally about the Bills? Everyone, that's who. Yeah, they spend far more time on the good teams but they talk about everyone to some degree. And they're often far more on target than Bills fans because they're not emotionally involved. Who was closer on win counts this year, the national pundits or cheery Bills fans?

 

Oh, and is Dareus a better player than Star? Right now?

 

The evidence on that is simply not there. Dareus no longer gets much of a pass rush. He's turned into a far more expensive Lotulelei. Dareus used to be terrific, but he hasn't been the same guy the last three years or so. Dareus has one sack, one tackle for loss and one QB hit this year. If he's better, it's not by all that much.

 

Dareus is only "slightly more expensive"? $16 mill per year vs. $10 mill per year? I think you're straining the word "slightly" there. That's comparing the 4th highest average salary for DTs versus the 15th highest.

 

"Sammy is a #1 WR on most teams",  you say? Man, I think you're flat-out dreaming.  Five years and 3567 yards and 28 TDs. In what universe are those #1 WR numbers. How many #1 WRs have one out of their five seasons over 1000 yards, and none of them are in the last three years? He isn't even the best receiver on that team or his team last year. Two guys have more catches than him just on the Chiefs, and he's in a two-way tie for third in TDs, just among the Chiefs. Hill has three times more TDs than Sammy and Kelce twice more. Watkins is a #2. Guy's been paid on potential his whole career and nothing is changing now. He's 31st in yards, in a multi-place tie for 43rd in TDs.

 

You don't become a #1 WR based on how many yards and catches and TDs you might get if they threw it to you much.

 

I always liked Sammy and I thought he was going to be a #1. I still hope he becomes one. But right now he isn't even close.

 

And yes, the Bills are overpaying Benjamin. But the fact that the Bills are overpaying (two years for $9 million, $8.5 of which is for this year, but he's off the roster next year w/ no dead cap) for the 24th highest paid WR if you use this year's salary only, is no excuse whatsoever for KC's wildly overpaying the 6th highest paid WR in the league with a contract that will keep him there for years.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Assuming they resign or franchise Watkins. It's probably around 60 or 65. No where near cap hell and still plenty of money to make some solid FA signings. 

 

 

Yeah, if those were the only moves that would have been different if they had reloaded instead of rebuilding. But it shouldn't even be necessary to point this out but those are very much NOT the only moves they made differently based on long-term strategy.

 

And yest the results would have been a continuation of cap hell.

[Ol Dirty B]

17 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

Apparently, you and the national media have a lot in common.

 

Ouch, you got him there!!!! 

16 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

Tell us again how they got rid of Darius because he wasn't their guy (which doesn't explain keeping Hughes and others) - and not because he was a lazy, under-performing head case, who didn't perform to the level of his contract on anywhere near a consistent basis. BTW, the Bills' rushing defense has a better DVOA than Jax.

 

Talk about adding nothing....

 

It amazes me how the guy who tells someone else they don't follow the Bills closely enough still can't figure out how to spell Dareus. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Lot of speculation, hand wringing and pining for the ‘talent’ from of a perennial loser, but the OP subject line remains unblemished and true...

[Victory Formation]

22 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

You realize just because you don't get market value for every FA you sign and overpay a little doesn't make it a bad signing? 

 

You think the Chiefs care that they may have slightly overpaid for Sammy? 

 

 

They didn't just overpay slightly, they overpayed massively. That's their business though. He's still a good receiver though.

[teef]

16 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I didn't complain about it.

 

I said Dareus is a better player and cap he is only slightly more than Stars's.

 

Again I disagree on that. Sammy's a number 1 WR on just about every team. Chiefs are just loaded and Sammy does his part to contribute. When he's a FA in another few years he'll get paid again.

 

If you think the Chiefs way overpaid for Sammy, what did the Bills do for Benjamin? Sammy is a big contributor to their offense. Benjamins borderline useless making 9 mil this year.

no is isn't.  he's had 3 tds all year.  he's being paid 16 million a year for 3 tds.  that's shockingly overpaid.  i have no idea why you kelvin.  he's useless too, but it has nothing to do with sammy being overpaid.  let me guess...sammy is a super high end decoy again?  everyone let us know that the ram's offense would just fall apart when sammy left.  guess what?  id didn't.  at all.  sammy just isn't the contributor that some want to make him out to be.  he's a good wr, but not worth what he's getting paid.

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Your question is subtly spinning. Watkins, Dareus, Glenn and Darby aren't the only moves they made to save cap. They made a ton of them.

 

So, to unspin, I'll ask the correct question:

 

Simple question: How much cap room would the Bills have this offseason if they hadn't rebuilt, if they'd reloaded instead.

 

Simple answer: A whole shitload less. Instead of being #3 in the league next year in available cap rankings they'd probably be somewhere similar to what they were last year going into the offseason, #26. We'd still probably have Tyrod at QB, and Robert Woods (ah, Tyrod racking up the yards throwing to Watkins and Woods. Yeah, the good old days and all those 300 yard games. I remember it well. From my imagination.) And Gilmore. Marquise Goodwin, maybe.

 

 

 

Now to look at your (well-spun) question alone, and give a rough answer based on average salary per year (if you want to be more specific, do your own research, which you could have done in the first place):

 

Watkins: $16 mill

Dareus:  $16 mill

Glenn: $12 mill

Darby: Hard to say as this is the last year on his contract. Would we have franchised him? I'll say yes, though he's not playing all that well this year in Philly. $16 mill.

 

Total $60 mill

 

Lotulelei $10 mill

Benjamin $0 (his contract ends this year and I don't see them re-signing him, do you?)

Murphy $7.5 mill

Davis $0 He retired. I'm guessing the Bills go after his bonuses and guarantees. Could they be denied? Maybe, but my guess is they win.

 

Total $17.5 mill

 

Net difference $42.5 mill, just on the guys you mentioned.

 

Throw on Tyrod's salary, Gilmore's, Robert Woods', and Goodwin's and since they're reloading instead of rebuilding they move as much of Incognito's and Wood's dead money from this year to next ... and a few other reload rather than rebuild moves and you're right back in the salary cap crap.

 

And you don't have Josh Allen unless you threw in next year's first or more to go from #22 to #7.

 

 

 

oh snap.  i should have just reposted this for scott.  i know you won't absorb a word of this scott, but whether anyone want to believe it, this is/was the reality of this team.  i jsut hope it works out in the end.

[billsfan1959]

7 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

It amazes me how the guy who tells someone else they don't follow the Bills closely enough still can't figure out how to spell Dareus. 

Ahhh… you really put me in my place. Shaming me over a spelling error. How will I ever recover and show my avatar face on this board again? 

[Victory Formation]

4 hours ago, teef said:

no is isn't.  he's had 3 tds all year.  he's being paid 16 million a year for 3 tds.  that's shockingly overpaid.  i have no idea why you kelvin.  he's useless too, but it has nothing to do with sammy being overpaid.  let me guess...sammy is a super high end decoy again?  everyone let us know that the ram's offense would just fall apart when sammy left.  guess what?  id didn't.  at all.  sammy just isn't the contributor that some want to make him out to be.  he's a good wr, but not worth what he's getting paid.

In @ScottLaw defense though, had we kept Sammy he wouldn't have got this much money. I truly believe that. Pick up his 5th year option, franchise him if you have to and work out a deal.

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

In @ScottLaw defense though, had we kept Sammy he wouldn't have got this much money. I truly believe that. Pick up his 5th year option, franchise him if you have to and work out a deal.

Isn't WR franchise tag $16M?

[LSHMEAB]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Watkins: $16 mill

Dareus:  $16 mill

Glenn: $12 mill

Darby: Hard to say as this is the last year on his contract. Would we have franchised him? I'll say yes, though he's not playing all that well this year in Philly. $16 mill.

 

Total $60 mill

 

 

 

 

 

That is really grasping at straws to assume they'd franchise Ronald Darby and pay him 16 mil a year. Unless of course, you're also assuming they drafted Pat Mahomes and Tre White wasn't on the roster. In that case, the entire world would be flipped on it's head and we'd have very little to complain about.

 

When you feel the need to make things up, you probably don't have a great case.

[Victory Formation]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Isn't WR franchise tag $16M?

For one year. His 5th year option would be substantially lower.

[teef]

20 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

In @ScottLaw defense though, had we kept Sammy he wouldn't have got this much money. I truly believe that. Pick up his 5th year option, franchise him if you have to and work out a deal.

well...that was kind of my point.  the bills could have taken the 5th year option, but then what?  consistently franchise him, get ready for a hold out, and still overpay for his production?  the same people complaining the bills let sammy go are the same ones who would be screaming that we paid too much.  when watkins was here, i really just assumed that the lack of production was due to bad qb play.  when his time came, why in the world wouldn't he have tested FA,(unless the bills held him hostage)?  obviously someone was willing to over pay, and no way would the bills have matched it.  nor should they have apparently.  at very least the bills got a 2nd out of him, but i'm not happy sammy isn't on the team either.  

 

there is something up with him though.  he's since played for two top end qbs, and just hasn't shown the production.  no way sammy is worth what he's getting paid now.  maybe that changes, but i doubt it.  at least he was paid.

3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

For one year. His 5th year option would be substantially lower.

but what after the 5th year?