I think I'm out on McDermott

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

I still think it was a great idea at the time. I also think Zay is much better than people give him credit for (maybe not worth the trade up in hindsight)

 

Zay Jones is a #4/#5 type of receiver for half the teams in the NFL.

 

He's just a guy who can't stretch the field and can't get open against man coverage. 

 

There are probably 150 WRs around the NFL with his type of skill set, and none of them are difference makers. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Well whether McDermott believes in his vision or not, he has to realize that he has spent/burnt all the good will that the 2017 Playoff run bought him with his team's performance this season. 

 

In Cleveland it was we understand that Hue was dealt a bad hand. Come on back for your 3rd season. But when the losses are still piling up, it overwhelms that patience. It changes the plan. In the NBA, the Philadelphia Sixers embraced the tank for a few seasons, but eventually the chorus of boos, empty seats cost Sam Hinkie his job before the "The Process" was completed regardless of Joel Embiid. 

 

Owners, GM's and fans always says at the beginning of the trip that they knew what they were signing up for. But we know humans lose patience, owners lose patience, fans lose patience. People are paying money to see this. The credibility is nearly or all gone here. Half of the Bills games are not competitive at halftime.

 

I think it's likely that McDermott will be fired during the 2019 seasons because he is not aggressive enough to compete with good offenses today, and his team will start 2-4 next season the patience will run out. 

 

You don't get 5 years in the NFL. 

 

3 points against Jacksonville doesn't give you 2-3 more years. 

 

In general its still about 3 years or you're done. 

 

 

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, Skins Malone said:

While I would like McD to get another year...simply because I'm sick of constant firings and rebuilds that go no where...I understand the deep frustration and the fact that the Bill are now a joke.

 

So question...

 

What coaches are out there that you guys would like the Bill's to hire if McD gets fired anytime in the future?

 

And this isnt a...well you say fire him give me your solution...I'm honestly curious who is out there and who you guys like.

 

With so much invested into Josh Allen, you have to assume Defillip is high on the Bills list if this were to happen. 

[BillsFanForever19]

I'm at this point too. I said no matter what, McDermott has to get 3-5 seasons. Just from a turnover standpoint - it has to stop.

 

But when you KEEP selecting the wrong coaches - you can't just stick with it for continuity's sake. Offensively, this regime is the most clueless i've seen from a Bills team in my 34 years.

 

I expected a step back. But they are putting together a HISTORICALLY bad season together. And they consistently make the wrong decisions on that side of the ball. 

 

I hate to say it - but Sean McDermott is looking like just another coordinator who is very good at his job. But is just not a Head Coach.

[Bangarang]

9 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

Lincoln Riley, Eric Bienemy or Josh McDaniels would be nice upgrades. 

Lincoln Riley yes absolutely.

 

Bienemy though? What makes you think he’d be an upgrade? He’s been nothing more than a RB coach until this year. That Chiefs offense is all Reid. Granted the last 2 Chiefs OCs seem to be doing okay as HC but I don’t think I’d have much confidence in Bienemy. 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Bangarang

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

Lincoln Riley yes absolutely.

 

Bienemy though? What makes you think he’d be an upgrade? He’s been nothing more than a RB coach until this year. That Chiefs offense is all Reid.

 

I think Andy Reid is at the forefront of offensive strategy right now and guys from his coaching tree seem to be having good offensive success. 

 

Pederson and Nagy are both doing very well, so I'd role the dice on Bienemy if we can't get someone like Riley. 

[MrEpsYtown]

I think this was supposed to be a tank year. I think they thought we were going to be more competitive than this. The blowouts concern me, and honestly McDermott begging the officials for calls makes him seem super lame. I lost a little respect for him yesterday.

 

That said, I'm not willing to jump ship yet because a lot of these players suck. Gaines is awful. I thought Lewis looked better in short stints. Bodine really does suck. I didn't think Bengals fans were being fair, but he's terrible. Vlad and Miller are bad and so is Mills. The receiving corps has been pretty pathetic thus far. Nathan Peterman needs to go. 

 

I wanted to see a competitive team that squeaked out a few wins. The Texans loss, the Packers loss, even the Patriots loss doesn't bother me because we were at least competitive. 

 

Anybody who thinks Josh Allen isn't good, think about the fact that his presence raised the play of this entire team and they were able to squeak out wins and be competitive. Seeing how much this team sucks without him, proves to me that there is something special there. I don't think I can give up on McDermott yet, but he needs to field a competitive team in these division games coming up with the Jets and Dolphins. If we get blown out in those games, I will be done. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think this was supposed to be a tank year. I think they thought we were going to be more competitive than this. The blowouts concern me, and honestly McDermott begging the officials for calls makes him seem super lame. I lost a little respect for him yesterday.

 

That said, I'm not willing to jump ship yet because a lot of these players suck. Gaines is awful. I thought Lewis looked better in short stints. Bodine really does suck. I didn't think Bengals fans were being fair, but he's terrible. Vlad and Miller are bad and so is Mills. The receiving corps has been pretty pathetic thus far. Nathan Peterman needs to go. 

 

I wanted to see a competitive team that squeaked out a few wins. The Texans loss, the Packers loss, even the Patriots loss doesn't bother me because we were at least competitive. 

 

Anybody who thinks Josh Allen isn't good, think about the fact that his presence raised the play of this entire team and they were able to squeak out wins and be competitive. Seeing how much this team sucks without him, proves to me that there is something special there. I don't think I can give up on McDermott yet, but he needs to field a competitive team in these division games coming up with the Jets and Dolphins. If we get blown out in those games, I will be done. 

 

The players you're criticizing were all hand picked by McDermott through trades, draft picks or free agent signings. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I'm at this point too. I said no matter what, McDermott has to get 3-5 seasons. Just from a turnover standpoint - it has to stop.

 

But when you KEEP selecting the wrong coaches - you can't just stick with it for continuity's sake. Offensively, this regime is the most clueless i've seen from a Bills team in my 34 years.

 

I expected a step back. But they are putting together a HISTORICALLY bad season together. And they consistently make the wrong decisions on that side of the ball. 

 

I hate to say it - but Sean McDermott is looking like just another coordinator who is very good at his job. But is just not a Head Coach.

See this is what I'm talking about.

 

Fans try to be rational coming in. 

 

They hear a Coach talk about changing the culture, field position, 3rd and manageable, establishing the line of scrimmage, running the ball in snowy Buffalo, the tip of the cap to the "blue collar" people of Buffalo and they think well surely the Coach is just settling in, placating to fans, giving them what they want to hear. 

 

But then, as always, the Bills don't have a Quarterback, and riding defense and running doesn't work, losses pile up and people start to lose patience. There is no light at the end of the ball control tunnel when the Saints and Rams score 80 points combined and our offense can't score more than 3 points without personal foul penalties against the Bears. 

 

The prison is McDermott's mindset on top of NO QUARTERBACK He truly believes, like Rex did, like Marrone did, like Jauron did, that you can line up, and just run over other teams and win 17-13 by keeping the other QB on the sidelines.  

 

It's mind-numbing. Our FO continues to shovel out poop and tell you that you have to eat it in order to be good someday. 

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

27 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

It's not even like some are playing chess and others checkers.

 

Sean McVay & Andy Reid are playing chess and we've got that annoying ball in a cup thing.

Sorry, I have to disagree.  McVay and Reid are playing chess, McDermott is playing go fish

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Welcome to the club. The membership grows with every blowout loss. 

  He ain't going anyplace and if he does get it turned around in year 3 all these guys poohing on him in this thread will be saying that they knew he would get the team on track.  I know every team has its message board drama queens but we have enough to stock half the teams in the league.  Heck, the Gang Green board was no where as active yesterday at 5PM and people here had them pegged as going the right direction with Darnold.  Of course this board will not revival the board of Pats Pulpit once Tom and Bill are gone and fans think that they can go 13-3 every year with ordinary people running the Pats.

[xsoldier54]

Not giving up on him just yet.  Would like to see what they do on the offenisve side of the ball this offseason and how that translates to success next year.  This year has been pretty ugly, but not blaming it all on McDermott and staff.  It would have been impossible to fix all that was wrong with both sides of the ball after the Rex Ryan debacle.  The D looks like it's headed in the right direction.  Let's see if they can fix the O next year.  If he can't get it done next year, then I'm out, but I'm willing to wait and see.  We've lost so many games over the past few years, losses, even blowout losses no longer concern me.  I wanna see some progress on building a competitive team and IMO that's gonna take another year.

[MAJBobby]

19 minutes ago, Skins Malone said:

While I would like McD to get another year...simply because I'm sick of constant firings and rebuilds that go no where...I understand the deep frustration and the fact that the Bill are now a joke.

 

So question...

 

What coaches are out there that you guys would like the Bill's to hire if McD gets fired anytime in the future?

 

And this isnt a...well you say fire him give me your solution...I'm honestly curious who is out there and who you guys like.

John Deflippo

Jim Bob Cooter - to a lesser extent

Chris Peterson

Lincoln Riley

 

[BillsInWilmingtonNC]

You have to give McBeane next year at the very least....  I am not nearly as worried about their eye for offensive talent as others are, and it may be unearned confidence but the guys that they have drafted for the offense have been good IMO, they just haven't had the picks to draft very many YET.  When you take away the 6th and 7th round lottery tickets that they have taken a shot on for the offense, their drafts have given us several good players.  I am very confident that Dawkins and Zay are going to be great for us. Wyatt Teller in the 5th looked good in preseason and showed signs that he may have a place on this team in years to come.  And the obvious one, Josh Allen whom we know nothing about at the moment.

 

Any Free Agents that they have brought in for the offensive side of the ball have been band-aids to buy them time and ultimately draft the right guys.  They believe in building through the draft and getting a good pipeline of young players on cheap contracts, which in my eyes is exactly the way you win today, you have to get a QB and then good young talent on cheap deals while retaining your core (Which they are building, Edmunds, Allen-Maybe/Hopefully, Tre) once their rookie deals are up.

 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  He ain't going anyplace and if he does get it turned around in year 3 all these guys poohing on him in this thread will be saying that they knew he would get the team on track.  I know every team has its message board drama queens but we have enough to stock half the teams in the league.  Heck, the Gang Green board was no where as active yesterday at 5PM and people here had them pegged as going the right direction with Darnold.  Of course this board will not revival the board of Pats Pulpit once Tom and Bill are gone and fans think that they can go 13-3 every year with ordinary people running the Pats.

 

Nah I will admit I was wrong on him, but you know what is interesting???  That hardly ever has to happen

[Bangarang]

11 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I think Andy Reid is at the forefront of offensive strategy right now and guys from his coaching tree seem to be having good offensive success. 

 

Pederson and Nagy are both doing very well, so I'd role the dice on Bienemy if we can't get someone like Riley. 

 

Bienemy would be an extremely tough sell. I put him in the same category as a guy like Harold Goodwin who worked under Brice Arians. 

[jrober38]

Just now, Bangarang said:

 

Bienemy would be an extremely tough sell. I put him in the same category as a guy like Harold Goodwin who worked under Brice Arians. 

 

Maybe. Or maybe he's Anthony Lynn who has the Chargers playing significantly better than they have in recent years. 

 

The point is we need something different, and I'd be fine rolling the dice on someone who learned under Andy Reid given the success his coordinators have had recently. 

[cd1]

50 minutes ago, Woodman19 said:

Why do people need to announce their feelings when it has no impact on if they get fired, nor will they stop watching the team regardless of what happens?

 

 

ca·thar·tic

/kəˈTHärdik/

adjective

 

1. 1.

   providing psychological relief through the open expression of strong emotions; causing catharsis.

   "crying is a cathartic release"
2. 2.

   MEDICINE

   (chiefly of a drug) purgative.

noun

MEDICINE

 

1. 1.

   a purgative drug.

[Seventeen]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Maybe. Or maybe he's Anthony Lynn who has the Chargers playing significantly better than they have in recent years. 

 

The point is we need something different, and I'd be fine rolling the dice on someone who learned under Andy Reid given the success his coordinators have had recently. 

 

You're right - we need something different. Something like players with talent, like a new OL and new WRs. Put Belichick in charge of this mess and he wouldn't do any better. If anyone, this is on Beane for putting this sh*tshow on offense together.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Looper

[sullim4]

1 hour ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

“I need instant gratification”

 

No - I just want a team that's better than the worst offense in modern NFL history.  That's my ask at this point and the team is failing spectacularly at it.

[Roundybout]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Maybe. Or maybe he's Anthony Lynn who has the Chargers playing significantly better than they have in recent years. 

 

The point is we need something different, and I'd be fine rolling the dice on someone who learned under Andy Reid given the success his coordinators have had recently. 

 

Uh wasn't McD a Reid coaching tree product

[HumbleAndHungry]

Maybe you should rewatch the Embedded series to find your lost moral

Edited November 5, 2018 by Finkle Is Einhorn

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Uh wasn't McD a Reid coaching tree product

 

OFFENSE was the key word. 

[BillsFan130]

32 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I'm at this point too. I said no matter what, McDermott has to get 3-5 seasons. Just from a turnover standpoint - it has to stop.

 

But when you KEEP selecting the wrong coaches - you can't just stick with it for continuity's sake. Offensively, this regime is the most clueless i've seen from a Bills team in my 34 years.

 

I expected a step back. But they are putting together a HISTORICALLY bad season together. And they consistently make the wrong decisions on that side of the ball. 

 

I hate to say it - but Sean McDermott is looking like just another coordinator who is very good at his job. But is just not a Head Coach.

Ya that's the thing. The Browns were trying to do the same thing with Hue Jackson.

 

People can preach continuity all they want but if they guy doesn't have it, then there is no point bringing him back just for the sake of continuity. 

 

As the Browns found out this year.

[njbuff]

When I saw him clap on a 2 yard completion, down 28-0, I was like.....................

 

what the heck is this guy doing? Does he have mental problems?

 

Who claps when they are down by a million points?

[DasNootz]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

The Bills have been exactly what everyone thought they would be going into the year.  If it crashes and burns next year then sure, you should lose faith.  But right now, this year, if you expected anything different then you just weren't paying attention before the start of the year. 

In terms of record, you may be right, but I don't think many predicted we would be blown out in such horrific fashion on a regular basis.  I have a hard time believing that with one year's worth of draft picks and free agent acquisitions we're going to be scoring 30+ points on a regular basis next season.  Is our OC hiding 3/4 of his playbook so as not to tip off coaching staffs for next year's run?  There seems to be little or no adjustments being made on the offensive side of the ball.  Either HC, OC or both need to go now.

 

In the real world, you hire slowly and fire quickly... hanging on in hopes of dramatic improvement from employees is seldom worth the risk.  IF we do improve offensively next season and start scoring 24 pts per game (which would be a major 2.4X improvement), we're still looking at a .500 season... at which point we'd probably be making changes anyway.  Even considering the "lack of offensive talent" on this roster... I have a very hard time believing that no other available offensive mind could muster more than 2 points in the first half of games (our average outside of the Minnesota game) or more than 10 points per game (our season average).  

[njbuff]

The Bills won't fire McDermott, but it's pretty obvious this organization needs to go after a HC with an excellent OFFENSIVE reputation. 

 

The offensive guys this franchise has gone after to be HC were either dinosaurs or didn't have a sparkling reputation.

 

The time has come for an offensive HC with a sparkling reputation that can turn Allen into a franchise QB, which Allen obviously has the talent to be.

Edited November 5, 2018 by njbuff

[ctk232]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

they tried to tank last season and put Peterman in, but he was so horrible they had to go back to Tyrod and then fluked the flukiest fluke in fluking history to "make the playoffs"

 

 

 

everyone???  go back to the prediction threads

 

 

Everyone who at least had an idea of the talent we were bringing into the season...Peterman and Allen were our QBs going into Day 1, we lost our two best OL men and traded another, and our WR corps hasn't performed in a couple years. Our defense has finally started to click, but what about our moves this offseason read to anyone more than 4-12? The prediction boards were filled with blind optimists clinging to the faintest possibility that we could compete "if this happens, and that goes this way, then we'll be alright" - there was only ever one way this season was going to go. Not to knock as I too had some confidence before Baltimore that this season may not be that bad, and I was most certainly fooled by Peterman's preseason. But even so, this was always the season we were going to have. There's no point in arguing that.

 

I don't mean this all to excuse what you are seeing, not in the least - but rather just point out the blatant reality that this was always the dumpsterfire that we were going to see based upon everything that happened after January 2018.

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Everyone who at least had an idea of the talent we were bringing into the season...Peterman and Allen were our QBs going into Day 1, we lost our two best OL men and traded another, and our WR corps hasn't performed in a couple years. Our defense has finally started to click, but what about our moves this offseason read to anyone more than 4-12? The prediction boards were filled with blind optimists clinging to the faintest possibility that we could compete "if this happens, and that goes this way, then we'll be alright" - there was only ever one way this season was going to go. Not to knock as I too had some confidence before Baltimore that this season may not be that bad, and I was most certainly fooled by Peterman's preseason. But even so, this was always the season we were going to have. There's no point in arguing that.

 

I don't mean this all to excuse what you are seeing, not in the least - but rather just point out the blatant reality that this was always the dumpsterfire that we were going to see based upon everything that happened after January 2018.

 

i gave my usual 6-10 (happy 20th anniversary of 6-10 predictions)

 

and expected it to be bad, but not this bad

 

but many were arguing that this was a legit playoff contender for the first few weeks, a few were quite adamant at 2-3 that this would turn around quickly... 

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

they tried to tank last season and put Peterman in, but he was so horrible they had to go back to Tyrod and then fluked the flukiest fluke in fluking history to "make the playoffs"

 

 

 

everyone???  go back to the prediction threads

 

 

So they'd be better this year if they had gone 3-13 last season?

 

How many seasons in a row must a team "tank" in order for that tank to start looking like just plain old sucking?

[Spiderweb]

1 hour ago, clearwater cadet said:

The only thing that brings good offense is a good QB who can see the field and make the throw.  All our problems go away with good Qb play.

Ah hem... Couple solid or better WRs would help a bunch as well, but we had them and McBean let two walk and a third was traded away for crap. How many moves have McBean made that have helped this team vs. those that have hurt the team? We simply suck and here's to Jerry Hughes breaking both of McClappy's wrists the next team he claps on a three and out, or worse yet a turnover. He a crap coach.

[quinnearlysghost88]

39 minutes ago, sullim4 said:

 

No - I just want a team that's better than the worst offense in modern NFL history.  That's my ask at this point and the team is failing spectacularly at it.

Okay, let's say we have the 20th ranked offense in the NFL this year but we still only have 2 wins. Are you still done with McD? yes, yes you are. 

[Real McClappy]

I'm not done until I see what happens next FA and draft. If we don't address the O properly my pitchfork will most likely come out as well.

 

AJM

Kerley

Coleman

 

Are still my biggest ?'s or WTF moments from Beane. 

 

Also, you need to look at the last draft. Are fans ok with taking the following over O-Line and WR help?

 

Harrison Phillips

Taron Johnson

Siran Neal

 

 

 

 

[sullim4]

14 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Okay, let's say we have the 20th ranked offense in the NFL this year but we still only have 2 wins. Are you still done with McD? yes, yes you are. 

 

Nope.  He bought enough goodwill from last year that if the unit was at least competent and competitive, which it would be if it was ranked #20, I'd be fine with it.

 

The fact that the offense is one of the worst in NFL history, combined with his repeated mistakes in selecting coaching staff on that side of the ball and poor personnel choices (Peterman, DiMarco, Benjamin, etc), should put him on a very hot seat in my view.  I was never thrilled with his selection as head coach, but was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt after reaching the playoffs and putting together solid defenses.

 

My worry now, after as many blowout losses as this team has experienced, is that he has reached a point where he's lost credibility with the players, fanbase, and front office (aside from Beane).  Talking in platitudes about "the process" gets less effective as horrible results pile up.  It is very hard to recover from a position like that.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Skins Malone said:

While I would like McD to get another year...simply because I'm sick of constant firings and rebuilds that go no where...I understand the deep frustration and the fact that the Bill are now a joke.

 

So question...

 

What coaches are out there that you guys would like the Bill's to hire if McD gets fired anytime in the future?

 

And this isnt a...well you say fire him give me your solution...I'm honestly curious who is out there and who you guys like.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

With so much invested into Josh Allen, you have to assume Defillip is high on the Bills list if this were to happen. 

 

I would add, if Reggie McKenzie becomes available, I would probably fire Beane on the spot and bring him in with Defilipo. 

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

 

As I mentioned in another post, McCoach is Dick Jauron without the charisma.

 

Gregg Williams without the air horn??    

[The Senator]

 

So, I’m thinkin’ that there’s this guy way out Spokane or someplace, that has coached his mediiocrr

 program to the top of the PAC12 and #8 overall in the nation - I can’t seem to remember his name...

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, Woodman19 said:

Why do people need to announce their feelings when it has no impact on if they get fired, nor will they stop watching the team regardless of what happens?

 

[The_Dude]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Sure they could have stopped it, gotten us to a 6 or 7 win season, but whats the point of that? 

 

Because I'm a believer that it's easier to go to 11-5 from 7-9 than it is from 2-14. Because it's important for the development of Josh Allen. 

[Skins Malone]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

 

I would add, if Reggie McKenzie becomes available, I would probably fire Beane on the spot and bring him in with Defilipo. 

The issue I think is Allen.  They just brought him in...will a new coach want his own QB?  Then where does that leave Allen.