The Bills deliberately did not maximize their roster talent this year

[3rdand12]

On 10/21/2018 at 7:00 PM, vorpma said:

Great idea - if you want to be acknowledged as ignorant - go for it!

I thought it was assumed, my ignoramus ness.
I'm and idiot.

On 10/21/2018 at 8:19 PM, fansince88 said:

My standard is come to work go beyond what is expected for 8 hours and go home....

5s is a method developed by Japans Toyota manufacturing.
 Some very smart methods of managing. if employed correctly in  the proper applications

 Lean, Six Sigma etc all work. But not for everyone.

 

 I am all about do your job.

[Paulus]

And, their going to likely walk out the worst QB in the league against the Pats. The worst offense. Pegula just did this with the Sabres. I don't get why people find it so hard to believe. 

[3rdand12]

15 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Fine, you want better coaching, better weapons, more experience and a much more innovative offensive system. I'd argue that you're making unwarranted assumptions. I would like to see him get whatever he needs. I don't think all four of those are obvious needs, and I'd argue that a better OL might trump almost all of those four, and possibly - though I certainly hope not - more time on the bench might also be a bigger need than those four.

 

As for your list of four, it's one opinion. If McDermott, who has a ton more info on the situation than we do, shares it, DB'll be gone. If he's still here it'll be a very good indication indeed that there is good reason to think that he was handicapped by the roster.

 

And Daboll doesn't have a horrible track record as an offensive coordinator. His track record is mixed and debatable. Terrific at Alabama. Arguable at places like KC in a sinking ship with Crennel at the helm and Cassel at QB and at Miami with Matt Moore and Chad Henne at QB. Remind me, has anybody made these QBs look like NFL starters? Same with Cleveland. Whereas he apparently did a terrific job at NE. It's arguable. If he'd been terrible and everyone knew it, he wouldn't be here.

 

And I'd also argue that Goff has a much much better idea than you do of what caused him to look better. And while he gives a ton of credit to McVay, he simply thinks he improved an awful lot in his second year. He's probably exactly right.

I like and appreciate this post

15 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

You going anywhere?

 

The fans will hang with them.

 

Half of them (at the games) are there to get drunk and just looking for something to do anyway.

 

I'm not sure the actual quality of football is that important with such fans.

 

 

are you quite sure about this ?

I think the quality of Football is certainly important to us Fans.
 

13 hours ago, Helpmenow said:

I hardly watch anymore. Waiting for the hammer on beane and McDermott. Glad I got witness the glory years.

you mean losing the superbowls ?
i was there

 it sucked actually.
i actually turned off the Giants game and stop watching Bills for over a decade.
 

 now it is interesting to me to see if they can build something. Maybe they cannot. Maybe the curse is real !

But i like to check in and see what is going on

5 minutes ago, Paulus said:

And, their going to likely walk out the worst QB in the league against the Pats. The worst offense. Pegula just did this with the Sabres. I don't get why people find it so hard to believe. 

sacrifice Peterman?

 

yes i called it. exactly so

 a lamb to the slaughter. fight or die

[Helpmenow]

I was there for the AFL 

[Coach Tuesday]

On 10/21/2018 at 6:06 PM, Lv-Bills said:

Pretty easy to me what I personally don't see.  Their plan is assanine.  

 

#1 - They tried to tank last year, and that quick start, coupled with an absolute horrid year for the AFC put them in the playoffs.  OK, no biggie.  It was fun anyway.  

 

#2 - The plan this year was to finish the tank.  Fine.  Just say so.  I've been a season ticket holder for almost 20 years.  Don't play this dumb charade like they are trying.  I can easily handle that they wanted this year to do the things you said above, which is the easy way out of things.  They haven't done anything hard.  The cut a bunch of people.  That's the easiest part of their plan.

 

#3 - The draft picks they have next year......great.  They have a bunch of mid round picks.  They usually don't amount to much.

 

#4 - My biggest gripe.  Their plan this year is flat out garbage.  You don't draft a QB high like they did, and completely gut the offense around him.  It's absolutely stupid.  They knew, and didn't address, the WR corps at all.  If anything, they got worse.  That's inexcusable.  Then, they pretty much did the exact same thing to the line in front of their new rookie QB.  Granted, they had a couple of flukish things go against them in Richie and Wood, but still had time to address things.   Not really sure why a relatively young Cordy Glenn was also run out of town.   Next, they stand pat with a backfield of a couple of 30 plus year old RB's.  Seems smart to me.   If all of those draft picks we have next year are that impressive, McCoy should be out of here for a 4th or 5th.  

 

They botched the QB room, period.  Even if they wanted Allen to sit this year, they had to figure at some point he would have to play once one of our other deer in the headlights guys (Peterman or McCarron when he was here) was going to get hurt.   This is a NFL team that is seriously challenged in completing a downfield pass.  In the year 2018, we can't score a TD in half the games we play.  It's not about anything other than how this roster is constructed.  And it's not constructed to help a rookie QB develop.  Defense though........another story.  Seems pretty logical.  Not.

 

I get they are tanking on purpose.  Albeit, it might be the only team in NFL history trying their best to lose while already having their high priced rookie QB.   So, what are we tanking for?  A LT I guess.  RT?  WR?  Who knows.

 

I'm hoping they can't be this incredibly stupid.  They have next year, and that's it.  There's no more excuses after this year to address this putrid offensive roster.  Clear space or not, there's no reason this roster is this bad.  None.

 

There's plenty out there that people "don't get".   And rightfully so.

 

I know someone like Chris Brown would probably tell us something different, and how rosy things are, but come on.  There's reason to be somewhat concerned about their "process".

 

 

 

Post of the Year, honestly.  This says it all.

[vorpma]

12 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

I thought it was assumed, my ignoramus ness.
I'm and idiot.

5s is a method developed by Japans Toyota manufacturing.
 Some very smart methods of managing. if employed correctly in  the proper applications

 Lean, Six Sigma etc all work. But not for everyone.

 

 I am all about do your job.

I was way out of line referring to 3rd and 12 as ignorant and apologize!

[3rdand12]

On 10/23/2018 at 10:02 AM, vorpma said:

I was way out of line referring to 3rd and 12 as ignorant and apologize!

Oh my !

 Do not worry for that !

 I would think that some folks would concur    me included on occasion !! 

 

Thanks for the pm's though.

 Cheers !

 

Go Bills !
 

 

[gobills1212]

Id say thanks capt obvious, but i dont want to sound sarcastic;)

[TigerJ]

I personally don't think McBeane targeted a high draft pick.  I do think they wanted to pick up a couple key pieces to their team.  Those turned out to be Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds.  Beyond that I think Beane made a decision that this was the year they were going to eat their dead cap money.  That definitely limited what they could do with respect to team building.  They probably realized it could be difficult to have a lot of wins this year, but McDermott is not coaching to lose IMO.

[CDogg20]

On 10/21/2018 at 4:37 PM, jtothebrown said:

This GM, This Coach, This Ownership, has deliberately set this team up to fail.

 

Just look at all the moves they made to gut the team. Just look at all the moves they havent made to improve this team.

 

They tried really hard last year, and if it wasnt for that meddling Dalton, they would have succeded.

That was a little Scooby Doo humor!

I mean yeah I agree. Was this ever up for debate? Last year they tried but this year I knew this was how it was going to go. It’s all part of the plan. Similar to the Eagles plan with Wentz 

[iinii]

On 10/22/2018 at 8:44 PM, Paulus said:

And, their going to likely walk out the worst QB in the league against the Pats. The worst offense. Pegula just did this with the Sabres. I don't get why people find it so hard to believe. 

Me either. In what universe is gutting your team and losing a path to success? 

[Thurman#1]

On 10/22/2018 at 5:45 AM, boater said:

Yep. There's so much to be gained by sucking.

 

Your team value goes down. Ticket prices freeze. Your career reputation goes down. All so positive..lets deliberately suck.

 

"Let's pass on Mahomes, he'll make us good when we're trying to suck"

 

 

Yeah, remember how Bill Walsh got fired when he went 2-14 and 6-10 his second. So little to be gained from years like that. Hang on, maybe I can find a better example.

 

Remember the Panthers sucking for several years and getting Newton and Kuechly the next two ... oh, wait.

 

The Eagles sucked in Andy Reid's last two years there and turned that into a bunch of players who helped them win the SB.

 

The Saints went 7-9 two years in a row and got Sheldon Rankins, Michael Thomas, Marshon Lattimore, Ramczyk, Marcus Williams and Alvin Kamara out of it.

 

There's plenty to be gained by sucking, as long as it's during a rebuild or you use it to fix your cap and draft well. Rebuilds don't guarantee success. They just maximize the chances of it.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, iinii said:

Me either. In what universe is gutting your team and losing a path to success? 

 

 

This one. 

 

Bill Walsh says hello. So does Jimmy Johnson. Pete Carroll. I could go on.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Thurman#1

[BillsFan1988]

On 10/21/2018 at 11:42 PM, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

6 starters and a couple more depth players is damn good and anyone who says otherwise has it out for the regime. 

Thats pretty standard stuff 3 starters per draft is average. Damn us Bills fans have come accept medicrity. 

 

Considering the massive mistakes on the offensive side of the ball this regime needs to be fired.

[Thurman#1]

On 10/22/2018 at 7:33 PM, TheTruthHurts said:

 

Biggest difference is an offensive innovator isn't coaching the offense next season. They aren't firing Daboll. 

Daboll has a horrible track record with horrible QB's. What it tells you is he doesn't improve players. 

 

 

No, it doesn't tell you that. It tells you he didn't turn bad players into good ones. None of those bad QBs was a young guy with a ton of potential. They were guys who had been around and been bad for a pretty long time. 

 

Might he have gotten the very best possible out of bad talent? Yeah, that's very possible. The best a coach can do is maximize his talent. He can't change one guy into another.

 

Neither Belichick nor Nick Saban hire or tolerate bad coaches. Guys who might not be good head coaches? Yeah, they'll tolerate them. But they don't tolerate guys who don't do their jobs and do them damn well.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Jasovon]

I'm keeping the faith, but it's possible there isn't some masterplan and these guys aren't outsmarting the whole league. 

 

Sometimes the fans know more about football than the people running their team, hope this isn't one of those times.

[Rebel101]

On 10/21/2018 at 4:37 PM, jtothebrown said:

This GM, This Coach, This Ownership, has deliberately set this team up to fail.

 

Just look at all the moves they made to gut the team. Just look at all the moves they havent made to improve this team.

 

They tried really hard last year, and if it wasnt for that meddling Dalton, they would have succeded.

That was a little Scooby Doo humor!

I got blasted for posting something similar to this. The words i used for my headline was different. But the context was the same pretty much. The FO had no intentions of trying to put a football team on the field that could compete. Which I think is ***** and shows a complete lack of respect. I just don’t understand how you waste a lot of picks on a project QB and put him in a situation where he has no chance to succeed. Did they just say let’s make it as hard on Allen as possible and if he comes out of this better then we know we have something I don’t understand 

[iinii]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

This one. 

 

Bill Walsh says hello. So does Jimmy Johnson. Pete Carroll. I could go on.

Point taken but for every Walsh, Johnson, and Carroll how many coaches and organizations have done the opposite? The Bills alone have more than three. You think McDermott is in that class?

[DuckyBoys]

McDermott is a decent coach.  He and Beane understood the Bills needed to retool their roster to have long term success.  They only have so many picks and so much money to acquire players.  They probably could have stuck some short term band aids on this roster and tried to squeeze out another 9-7 year with a bunch of fluke type wins.  This is what the argument boils down to.  Rip off the band aid and start fixing things properly for a winning team that is sustainable or continue to look for short term fixes.  This year is going to suck.  Everyone should have seen that coming.    Truthfully I was shocked at last year and expected it to be a 4 or 5 win season.   Now there is no guarantee they will get right but so far some of the early returns are good.  They have 7 starters from the 14 picks used in the 2017/2018 drafts.  Compare it to 2015/2016.  Next year they have 10 picks plus a lot of cap space.  Stands to reason next years roster will be more talented and younger.  If Allen shows progress next year should be a winning season. If they want a insurance policy for Allen than pick up a decent FA qb for 2019 . Long as they don't make stupid signings and get hung with trash salaries like Mario Williams, Charles Clay we'll be in good shape for the future. We have had some horrible drafts between 2009-2016 Hiring Rex and letting him influence the drafts to get guys for his system hurt even more.

[Kelly the Dog]

Don't you gut the team in year one not year two when you're trying to rebuild? Yes, they did some of it last year, too, but why not get it out of the way earlier than later? We would be year one into the rebuild not ground zero. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Kelly the Dog

[cba fan]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 3:51 PM, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Tre White

Poyer and Hyde

Dawkins

Edmunds

Milano 

 

There's five

that's SIX

 

And I will add T Johnson DB as seven. And the new punter has clear potential. Just needs more hang time.

[Bing Bong]

On 10/21/2018 at 3:49 PM, SDS said:

Past seasons are a sunk cost. They are gone. Get over it. There is only today and how you move forward. 

But we suck today

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Don't you gut the team in year one not year two when you're trying to rebuild? Yes, they did some of it last year, too, but why not get it out of the way earlier than later? We would be year one into the rebuild not ground zero. 

I dont feel we are ground zero

 

They DID gut the team last year.....high priced contracts for draft picks.....I really dont think they expected to be that good in year 1....

 

My theory is they thought that they were going to finish bad enough that they would not have to give up 2nd round pick....would not have had to trade Cordy (I am not sure if he stays because of his injury history and contract....but I digress) but it happened.....so they had to be aggressive in their moves up to make sure they got that QB

 

We are in year 2 of the rebiuld.....this offseason was about the QB and the defense (wich currently sits top 10 DVOA)

 

Next offseason is about the offensive pieces around the QB

 

I mean...I could be way off base on this....but I really do NOT think that I am.....to me the dots are not that hard to connect

[NoHuddleKelly12]

On 10/21/2018 at 4:37 PM, jtothebrown said:

This GM, This Coach, This Ownership, has deliberately set this team up to fail.

 

Just look at all the moves they made to gut the team. Just look at all the moves they havent made to improve this team.

 

They tried really hard last year, and if it wasnt for that meddling Dalton, they would have succeded.

That was a little Scooby Doo humor!

You’re right, the devious plot to uproot their families and buy homes in Buffalo was all part of their clever ruse!! They really just want to see how long it takes before Pegula fires them! 

[jethro_tull]

I think you can rebuild your roster the right way and still want to win- player development takes time.  The idea of deliberately trashing your roster to lose intentionally is a bit harsh IMHO.  

[Thurman#1]

On 10/27/2018 at 1:04 AM, iinii said:

Point taken but for every Walsh, Johnson, and Carroll how many coaches and organizations have done the opposite? The Bills alone have more than three. You think McDermott is in that class?

 

 

Where do the Bills have more than three? The Bills tendency through the years has been to reload, even when the talent clearly wasn't there. One of the Bills rebuilds was the one led by Polian and Levy. The unfortunate QB-less Nix-led failure was another. The year they picked OJ was another, probably, though the head coach was so awful the improvement would maybe never have occurred if he hadn't been replaced by a Bills icon. The Bills have a lot more reloaders than rebuilders. Rex, Marrone, Jauron, Mularkey, Gregg Williams, Wade, all reloaders. You can make an argument for Gregg Williams, but bringing in Bledsoe and a bunch of other moves always made it seem more like a forced cap dump followed by a reload to me.

 

In any case, nobody says that rebuilding is perfect. It isn't. In fact, it sucks. The only solution that's any worse are all the others. 

 

I'm with KellytheDog above that they should've done it earlier and made the rebuild complete. But they didn't and at least we don't have to hear people moan about the playoff streak anymore.

 

Do I think McDermott is in that class? I have no idea. Nor does anyone else. Before those rebuilds, Walsh, Johnson and Carroll weren't yet in that category. And all of them suffered through a ton of "See how horrible this guy is ... he's had long enough and he's proved he's a loser ... dump him fast" knee-jerk criticism in the middle of those rebuilds.

 

On 10/27/2018 at 12:17 PM, John from Riverside said:

I dont feel we are ground zero

 

They DID gut the team last year.....high priced contracts for draft picks.....I really dont think they expected to be that good in year 1....

 

My theory is they thought that they were going to finish bad enough that they would not have to give up 2nd round pick....would not have had to trade Cordy (I am not sure if he stays because of his injury history and contract....but I digress) but it happened.....so they had to be aggressive in their moves up to make sure they got that QB

 

We are in year 2 of the rebiuld.....this offseason was about the QB and the defense (wich currently sits top 10 DVOA)

 

Next offseason is about the offensive pieces around the QB

 

I mean...I could be way off base on this....but I really do NOT think that I am.....to me the dots are not that hard to connect

 

 

If they'd really wanted to gut the team last year, John, they'd have traded Tyrod. And Kyle Williams and probably Hughes. McCoy and Incognito for sure. Could've lost a bunch more games and had a better draft pick. And not had to trade away so much to pick a QB this year.

 

I agree with the rest of your post here, though. this coming year they'll work on the offense.

[Julio Hopkins]

On 10/21/2018 at 4:42 PM, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

6 starters and a couple more depth players is damn good and anyone who says otherwise has it out for the regime. 

 

"6 starters" is a good way to paint a pretty picture.  Zay Jones for example (so far at least) has been a horrible draft pick.  

[auburnbillsbacker]

The Bills are hoping for sustained success.  They moved assets so they could draft a franchise QB while removing players with expensive contracts who had a difficult time staying on the field.  By the end of next season we will know if they did a good job.  Allen will be in his 2nd year and most of the roster will compose of players they chose to draft or sign.  If they made the right moves the Bills will be good for the next several years.  I have no idea if they made the right moves though.  I sure hope so. 

[That's No Moon]

So, it's ok to suck so long as you are sucking on purpose.

[nedboy7]

So how long do we label the following years rebuild?  Is next year a rebuild?  What about the year after?  What’s progress?  8-8?  Oh the dreaded 8-8?  What’s w the obsession over having an extra 4th and 5th. That’s the missing piece that makes us a contender? 

[iinii]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Where do the Bills have more than three? The Bills tendency through the years has been to reload, even when the talent clearly wasn't there. One of the Bills rebuilds was the one led by Polian and Levy. The unfortunate QB-less Nix-led failure was another. The year they picked OJ was another, probably, though the head coach was so awful the improvement would maybe never have occurred if he hadn't been replaced by a Bills icon. The Bills have a lot more reloaders than rebuilders. Rex, Marrone, Jauron, Mularkey, Gregg Williams, Wade, all reloaders. You can make an argument for Gregg Williams, but bringing in Bledsoe and a bunch of other moves always made it seem more like a forced cap dump followed by a reload to me.

 

In any case, nobody says that rebuilding is perfect. It isn't. In fact, it sucks. The only solution that's any worse are all the others. 

 

I'm with KellytheDog above that they should've done it earlier and made the rebuild complete. But they didn't and at least we don't have to hear people moan about the playoff streak anymore.

 

Do I think McDermott is in that class? I have no idea. Nor does anyone else. Before those rebuilds, Walsh, Johnson and Carroll weren't yet in that category. And all of them suffered through a ton of "See how horrible this guy is ... he's had long enough and he's proved he's a loser ... dump him fast" knee-jerk criticism in the middle of those rebuilds.

 

 

 

If they'd really wanted to gut the team last year, John, they'd have traded Tyrod. And Kyle Williams and probably Hughes. McCoy and Incognito for sure. Could've lost a bunch more games and had a better draft pick. And not had to trade away so much to pick a QB this year.

 

I agree with the rest of your post here, though. this coming year they'll work on the offense.

If the talent wasn’t there how did we make the playoffs last year? Woods and Watkins did well yesterday. Seems like Allen could use them and Glenn. 

As far as the six starters they drafted, not all would start for other teams, so that is misguided to say the least. 

I would put Williams in the rebuild category. 

Like you said we will see. 

 

 

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, iinii said:

If the talent wasn’t there how did we make the playoffs last year? Woods and Watkins did well yesterday. Seems like Allen could use them and Glenn. 

As far as the six starters they drafted, not all would start for other teams, so that is misguided to say the least. 

I would put Williams in the rebuild category. 

Like you said we will see. 

 

 

 

If Sammy was here as a number one WR getting paid 16 million per year and putting up later career Lee Evans numbers people would be bitching about how we overpaid for injury prone talent. Glenn when they traded him hadn't played a fully healthy season in 3 years and had missed a lot of time the previous 2 seasons. If there Glenn was on this team and hurt people would say the front office was incompetent for not trading him. 

 

Now that's not to say that the front office hasn't made mistakes. Letting Robert Woods go looks like it was a mistake but then again who knows what if would have taken to keep him here vs. going to play for the Rams his home town team? But I think that chastising McBeane for getting value from injury prone players on fat contracts or due for fat contracts was exactly the types of moves the team should have done. Remember this team made the playoffs last year without Sammy and Woods and while Cordy was injured most of the season. 

 

In a proper rebuild you gut big contracts, get value for players who might not be a  fit for the culture or scheme,  you make a big play for a QB in the draft, and you turnover the roster. McBeane is doing exactly those things. Now wither or not this will pan out is mostly up to Josh Allen and what they do with the cap space they have cleared. But the people acting like if you put Glenn, Woods, Sammy, Tyrod, Darby, and Dareus on this roster we would be a super bowl contender are just deluding themselves. All those players can be contributors and the team would be a lot better with those players (Although who knows if we would have been able to add other players like Hyde but for sake of simplicity lets ignore that) but those players aren't taking the team to the Super Bowl. 

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

So, it's ok to suck so long as you are sucking on purpose.

 

 

For the limited amount of time in which it is inevitable to suck in a rebuild, yeah.

 

Same as it's a bad thing to be immature, but actually OK when you're eight or ten years old. Not so much when you're 23, though.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, iinii said:

If the talent wasn’t there how did we make the playoffs last year? Woods and Watkins did well yesterday. Seems like Allen could use them and Glenn. 

As far as the six starters they drafted, not all would start for other teams, so that is misguided to say the least. 

I would put Williams in the rebuild category. 

Like you said we will see. 

 

 

 

 

The talent wasn't there.

 

We made the playoffs through a real accumulation of luck. The first bit of luck was an easy schedule (126-130 with most opponents from the weak AFC giving them their own weak schedules) The second bit of luck was that that schedule was made a ton easier by playing two of the good teams we played, KC and Atlanta, right in the middle of the only slumps of their season. Atlanta was in a three-game slump in a season where they never lost more than one game in a row elsewhere and that was made even worse by having Julio Jones injured and out of the Bills game. The Chiefs were in a four-game slump that you could argue was a seven-game slump with one win coming from beating an awful Denver team in the middle. But the biggest chunk of luck was making the playoffs with a 9-7 record. Most years 9-7 won't get you in but we were in a seriously weak AFC that year, and that was very lucky indeed.

 

Watkins has 453 yards in 8 games. In other words, he's on track for a season of 906 yards. While being thrown to by a QB who's playing lights out in an offense that doesn't let teams double Sammy easily. Three TDs. For $16 mill a year. So by average salary he's the 6th highest paid WR in the league and for that money his production is this: 453 yards (30th in the league) and 3 TDs (in a 24-way tie for 34th position, so he's in the top 58 in the league). And that's not a bad year for Sammy.

 

Glenn plays LT, a highly-paid position that we have filled. Woods was a great bargain for the Rams. Would've been great if we could've kept him. But teams in serious salary cap situations have to give up players they would like to keep, as do teams trying to put together enough draft capital in trades to be sure of bringing in a franchise QB.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Thurman#1

[klos63]

On 10/21/2018 at 1:44 PM, Helpmenow said:

So your banking on them to right the ship

So how many years do we as bills fans have to wait 

look how quickly cleveland turned it around with all those high draft picks and cap space

[BillsVet]

 

25 minutes ago, klos63 said:

look how quickly cleveland turned it around with all those high draft picks and cap space

 

Bad coaching hires and poor strategic planning get you CLE.  Good coaching hires and strategic planning get you LAR and KC.

 

McCoach and his defense first mentality get you 87 points scored in 8 games.  

[Thurman#1]

33 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

Bad coaching hires and poor strategic planning get you CLE.  Good coaching hires and strategic planning get you LAR and KC.

 

McCoach and his defense first mentality get you 87 points scored in 8 games.  

 

 

The LA Rams are in around the 6th year of their rebuild. Check the GM. He's been there a while, putting things together. Reid's been there awhile too and though the Rams ran a partial rebuild, the Chiefs didn't. The Chiefs, outside QB, weren't awful. They had some good talent to start with in Jamaal Charles, Dwayne Bowe, Moeaki, Branden Albert, Tyson Jackson, Dontari Poe,  Justin Houston, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Eric Berry and Kendrick Lewis. And because they were in good cap shape, Reid managed to bring in Alex Smith to play QB.

 

Both teams were really lucky, because the previous year's team had two wins.With that kind of background to your hiring, you can get an impact player at ground zero.

 

A complete rebuild, or near-complete in the Bills case, is different. The second year will suck. 

[dezertbill]

This team's offense is like watching paint dry.  Painful to watch.

 

That's the issue I have with this regime.  You have a great defense, and you can't even put an offense on the field that can compete.  It's a frickn' joke.  We get down by more than two scores and  you might as well head to the exits.

 

This could have all been avoided if we would have had half a brain and actually signed a QB that can play competently in the NFL.  Instead of McDermotts love affair with Peterman or Beane rushing out to sign some bum off the couch.  That's what pisses me off about this whole thing.   We have a great defense, and you can't even give your fans entertainment value thinking that our offense can compete if we allow more than 10 points.

 

It's so infuriating.  I was a big proponent of Beane and MCD, but they screwed this one up big time.  And that crap "were young and we'll continue to grow" is BS.  You can be young and lose, yet play an exciting and entertaining brand of football.  Our offense is horrible, it's an insult to our defense.  He can take his we'll continue to grow and shove it where the sun don't shine

[Thurman#1]

11 minutes ago, dezertbill said:

This team's offense is like watching paint dry.  Painful to watch.

 

That's the issue I have with this regime.  You have a great defense, and you can't even put an offense on the field that can compete.  It's a frickn' joke.  We get down by more than two scores and  you might as well head to the exits.

 

This could have all been avoided if we would have had half a brain and actually signed a QB that can play competently in the NFL.  Instead of McDermotts love affair with Peterman or Beane rushing out to sign some bum off the couch.  That's what pisses me off about this whole thing.   We have a great defense, and you can't even give your fans entertainment value thinking that our offense can compete if we allow more than 10 points.

 

It's so infuriating.  I was a big proponent of Beane and MCD, but they screwed this one up big time.  And that crap "were young and we'll continue to grow" is BS.  You can be young and lose, yet play an exciting and entertaining brand of football.  Our offense is horrible, it's an insult to our defense.  He can take his we'll continue to grow and shove it where the sun don't shine

 

 

Yeah, our offense is awful. And our defense is good. McDermott and Beane put together both. Not just the offense. They put almost no resources into the offense outside of bringing in Allen. McDermott is a defensive coach, it wasn't a surprise to see them prioritize the D. They're likely to spend a lot more resources on the offense next year.

 

 

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

look how quickly cleveland turned it around with all those high draft picks and cap space

 

 

They're in Dorsey's second year, correct?

 

Yup, same very reasonable argument still holds. They're still very early in Dorsey's build.

 

 

 

Not that either team should be happy with recent history. But both fan bases can feel real hope for the future.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Thurman#1

[iinii]

12 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

If Sammy was here as a number one WR getting paid 16 million per year and putting up later career Lee Evans numbers people would be bitching about how we overpaid for injury prone talent. Glenn when they traded him hadn't played a fully healthy season in 3 years and had missed a lot of time the previous 2 seasons. If there Glenn was on this team and hurt people would say the front office was incompetent for not trading him. 

 

Now that's not to say that the front office hasn't made mistakes. Letting Robert Woods go looks like it was a mistake but then again who knows what if would have taken to keep him here vs. going to play for the Rams his home town team? But I think that chastising McBeane for getting value from injury prone players on fat contracts or due for fat contracts was exactly the types of moves the team should have done. Remember this team made the playoffs last year without Sammy and Woods and while Cordy was injured most of the season. 

 

In a proper rebuild you gut big contracts, get value for players who might not be a  fit for the culture or scheme,  you make a big play for a QB in the draft, and you turnover the roster. McBeane is doing exactly those things. Now wither or not this will pan out is mostly up to Josh Allen and what they do with the cap space they have cleared. But the people acting like if you put Glenn, Woods, Sammy, Tyrod, Darby, and Dareus on this roster we would be a super bowl contender are just deluding themselves. All those players can be contributors and the team would be a lot better with those players (Although who knows if we would have been able to add other players like Hyde but for sake of simplicity lets ignore that) but those players aren't taking the team to the Super Bowl. 

No one is taking this team to the Super Bowl. The band aid is definitely off now.