Josh Allen looks on par with this year’s other rookie QBs

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This last is a valid concern from what I've seen

It would be shocking if they didn't devote considerable draft and FA resources to trying to upgrade offensive personnel. Evaluation and development capacity is the issue and so far, there isn't much reason to be hopeful.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Dr. Who

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Right.  I think he's starting to figure things out more.  For all young QBs the game has to slow down for them.  

How many people kept spouting off a 60% completion rate as if it was the be all and end all of how to tell if a guy can be successful?

 

It's really kind of a minimum standard for success as an NFL QB in today's pass-heavy game.

Even QB on a run-first team such as Seattle in Wilson's first years, or Smith/Kaepernick under Harbaugh, need to hit the target significantly 3/4 of the time when they pull the trigger (which is what 60% completion means when a typical number of throw-aways etc are adjusted for)

[The_Dude]

Josh Allen doesn’t look on par to CJ Beathard. He doesn’t look as good as Mayfield, Darnold, or Rosen. Let’s not “Billieve” because “Bullieving” is stupid. The kid can prove it if he can. Right now he’s proven he’s good for about 2 nice runs and 80 yards passing. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

I disagree with this whole post... he's shell shocked, escapes the pocket way too early,  he has 166 passing the last 2 weeks combined, he doesn't throw to open WR's... granted the WR's are crap... but Zay is open almost all the time... 

He's so Raw & is behind the QB's in the 1st Rd... except Jackson & that's only because he has Flacco in front of him. PPF has Allen rated as the worst QB under pressure. 

This is why I didnt want to draft him, because he's a project. McBeane is a joke right now, because they didn't have a plan after drafting the QB that needs the most work. 

They fell in love with Allen personality, more so then his readiness to play in this league. 

To sit here & try to compare Allen to the rest of this QB class is laughable in itself. 

He's not ready for this league, & I think McBeane just figured that out... which is why he's "Week to Week" & Allen wants a second opinion...

Ughhh take the hint kid, your bench... i feel like McBeane just didn't want to hurt the kid feelings. 

 

The part about "hurting the kids feelings" as though Allen's injury isn't real, appears to be flying in the face of facts - all the available evidence points to, Allen is genuinely injured and the injury he is being discussed as having is very consistent with what is seen on film.

 

The first six lines are reasonable analysis, except that again, all available evidence points to McDermott, Daboll and Beane knew very well that Allen wasn't ready going into the season, which is why he wasn't running with the ones and why he didn't start. 
 

Yes, it was clear pre-draft Allen was a project and has development needs (basic footwork and accuracy on short passes) and gaps in his background (level of competition he faced/speed of game he faced in college) the other top draftees simply don't have.

 

Where they made their big error was in hitching their wagon to the "new improved" Nathan Peterman and shooting AJM off to the West Coast (or counting on him in the first place)

 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

Josh Allen doesn’t look on par to CJ Beathard. He doesn’t look as good as Mayfield, Darnold, or Rosen. Let’s not “Billieve” because “Bullieving” is stupid. The kid can prove it if he can. Right now he’s proven he’s good for about 2 nice runs and 80 yards passing. 

 

We REALLY need downvoting, like today. Not tomorrow, not let's think about it. Now.

 

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

Josh Allen doesn’t look on par to CJ Beathard. He doesn’t look as good as Mayfield, Darnold, or Rosen. Let’s not “Billieve” because “Bullieving” is stupid. The kid can prove it if he can. Right now he’s proven he’s good for about 2 nice runs and 80 yards passing. 

 

Josh Allen has looked terrible the last 3 games. That's all that needs to be said.

 

If people want to wait and see with him, that's fine, but I don't get having to tear down other players just to make our situation seem less depressing. Right now no one who cheers for the Browns or Jets has any serious concerns about the long term development of their 1st round picks. Both have had ups and downs and are taking their lumps like most rookies do. Even the Cardinals are probably satisfied with the direciton that Rosen is trending.

 

As you said, Allen hasn't looked like an NFL player yet. 80 yards and 20 yards rushing is all he's been able to contribute so far on a consistent basis. He looks overwhelmed and completely lost by the speed of the game. Allen was an extremely risky pick when we selected him, and early signs are that he's the same guy now as he was at Wyoming which clearly isn't going to be good enough long term. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Why can't you simply just look at my post, and then we can discuss?

 

This IS a reasonable question.  You might consider linking in the post you reference.

[zow2]

To me, Allen looks behind the other three.  Granted Darnold and Mayfield have better weapons for sure, but they are making some plays downfield.  Rosen looks better too, he's had a bunch of drops.  

 

Allen has the big arm but he isn't using it much.  Finally we saw a nice pass to KB (which DiMarco ruined) and then another sweet pass to KB over the middle.  So after he makes two good throws, he gets hit and now out a month.  Go figure...he was just starting to get some confidence.  dang it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

It would be shocking if they didn't devote considerable draft and FA resources to trying to upgrade offensive personnel. Evaluation and development capacity is the issue and so far, there isn't much reason to be hopeful.

 

I agree, but then some of the moves and choices they've already made are shocking to me, and I've been shocked before by different Bills GM/coach pairs expenditure of resources.

13 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

We REALLY need downvoting, like today. Not tomorrow, not let's think about it. Now.

 

In the Customer Service forum.  In the Suggestion Box.  Maybe in a PM to SDS.  Not here.

[The_Dude]

16 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

We REALLY need downvoting, like today. Not tomorrow, not let's think about it. Now.

 

 

Youre just a guy who doesn’t like me. I didn’t spout anything outlandish. Don’t like me? I don’t care. 

[Kelly the Dog]

Considering the coaching he has got and the receivers to work with and the line and the run game, I'd say he is ahead of them,. considering he is so close behind now.

[Roundybout]

 

Thank you, Jerry! Very cool!

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

12 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Considering the coaching he has got and the receivers to work with and the line and the run game, I'd say he is ahead of them,. considering he is so close behind now.

a pile of steaming  **** and he's just behind them.....  

 

some credit is due.   ?

1 minute ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Thank you, Jerry! Very cool!

Wait what?  Jerry was right?       

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

34 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

We REALLY need downvoting, like today. Not tomorrow, not let's think about it. Now.

 

it'll never happen. or at least it would really surprise me if that option became available.

 

in these times, when feelings are so easily hurt?

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Totally agree.  I think McDermott is a good game day HC, and his judgement of defensive talent is pretty good.  On the offensive side, however, he simply sucks at talent evaluation of both coaches and players.  Saying that Daboll is better than Dennison is simply saying one's noxious crap and the other's slightly less noxious smelling crap.  That the Bills drafted a first round QB but didn't bother to upgrade the QB coach demonstrates how little McDermott cares about the offensive side or about developing his rookie QB.  Hell, the Bills didn't even get around to bringing in a bonafide veteran QB until five weeks into the season when Peterman utterly failed as the starter in the season opener.

 

Essentially, McDermott and his henchman Beane are pretty much expecting Allen to sink or swim on his own.  I don't expect the Bills to seriously improve the team around him either because they'll use the excuse that they have so many holes on defense and special teams, which in McDermott's universe, are infinitely more important than the offense.

 

 

I don't we'll see much on offense in the offseason.  McDermott doesn't care about the offense, and even if he decided for some reason to go on an offensive FA spending spree, I don't think that any first rate offensive players (nor many second rate ones, either) will be willing to come to the Bills because of McDermott's Neanderthal offensive philosophy.

 

 

I agree on McD and the coaches, but fully believe our offseason will be completely focused on the Offensive side of the ball.

 

I wouldnt say McD "doesnt care" about Offense, just that he is mistaken on what a good Offensive staff looks like. Culley should NEVER have been brought in as QB coach. Daboll was a 50/50 hiring. I get they liked his time with Bama and the Patriots, but he isnt the type of OC a young project QB needs.

 

Going into this season, I thought we'd be 6-10 at best. I've revised that to 4-12. And I get it was always going to be a down year, so my expectations were "I dont care about our record or what games look like as long as I see a plan for developing the kid". But that isnt happening. Quite the opposite actually. That's my worry.

[26CornerBlitz]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It's not just about every throw he makes. It's also some he's not making when he doesn't keep his eyes downfield and instead takes off to soon.

 

Well what do you know?!?

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

 

Whether or not Allen is on par with the other rookie QBs is, to me, meaningless.  They could all turn out to be busts or superstars.  Who knows?

 

The fact is that Allen's current level of play is inadequate.  The pertinent questions are:  Can he correct his shortcomings?  How?

 

Allen's arm is impressive.  But the list of things he needs to correct is also impressive: inconsistent mechanics, accuracy, pre-snap reads, post-snap reads, decisiveness... 

 

Most/all of his problems are potentially correctable.  But there's so much he has to work on that it's hard to confidently predict that he'll be a franchise QB some day.  My fingers are crossed and I'm certainly pulling for him but I wouldn't bet the farm just yet.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Whether or not Allen is on par with the other rookie QBs is, to me, meaningless.  They could all turn out to be busts or superstars.  Who knows?

 

The fact is that Allen's current level of play is inadequate.  The pertinent questions are:  Can he correct his shortcomings?  How?

 

Allen's arm is impressive.  But the list of things he needs to correct is also impressive: inconsistent mechanics, accuracy, pre-snap reads, post-snap reads, decisiveness... 

 

Most/all of his problems are potentially correctable.  But there's so much he has to work on that it's hard to confidently predict that he'll be a franchise QB some day.  My fingers are crossed and I'm certainly pulling for him but I wouldn't bet the farm just yet.  

 

meh.  Post snap isn't as bad w/o INT's       but his awareness in the pocket needs work for sure 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That seemed to blame the WR more than JA, if you extrapolate what he is saying.

[VW82]

I really think a lot of you are confusing a dialed back offensive scheme and QB responsibility for improvement. 

 

Are you actually watching the other rookie QBs play or are you just comparing stats? Either way, it's not close with Baker and Darnold right now. Those guys are light years ahead of Allen in terms of not only execution on the field but the sophistication that allows their coaches the freedom to put together more complete game plans. 

 

Fans are blaming our coaches for crappy game plans when it's Allen's rudimentary understanding of NFL defenses (not to mention our own offense) that's holding the coaches back in the first place. 

 

Perhaps Rosen has been equally bad. I haven't watched him so I don't know.  

Edited October 16, 2018 by VW82

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That seemed to blame the WR more than JA, if you extrapolate what he is saying.

 

Some is on Allen and some is on the supporting cast.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That seemed to blame the WR more than JA, if you extrapolate what he is saying.

using the good old rational thinking  again I see?    

 

Don't spoil his fun on crapping all over JA.   he's got to get his fix in.  

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, VW82 said:

I really think a lot of you are confusing a dialed back offensive scheme and QB responsibility for improvement. 

 

Are you actually watching the other rookie QBs play or are you just comparing stats? Either way, it's not close with Baker and Darnold right now. Those guys are light years ahead of Allen in terms of not only execution on the field but the sophistication that allows their coaches the freedom to put together more complete game plans. 

 

Fans are blaming our coaches for crappy game plans when it's Allen's rudimentary understanding of NFL defenses (not to mention our own offense) that's holding the coaches back in the first place. 

 

Perhaps Rosen has been equally bad. I haven't watched him so I don't know.  

 

He's lagging behind all three of them and it should come as no surprise to anyone.   That's the current snap shot.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Some is on Allen and some is on the supporting cast.

His real criticism here is that he doesn't trust his arm, which is true in this game because he didn't make some throws but that could have been coaching (scaling back throws), and we all know he very much trusts his arm, except perhaps now.

 

Not trusting man coverage, and pulling ball down and running against man coverage, when also saying WR are not getting open against man coverage is not really a criticism of JA.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

His real criticism here is that he doesn't trust his arm, which is true in this game because he didn't make some throws but that could have been coaching (scaling back throws), and we all know he very much trusts his arm, except perhaps now.

 

Not trusting man coverage, and pulling ball down and running against man coverage, when also saying WR are not getting open against man coverage is not really a criticism of JA.

 

The problem is that sometimes they are open, but he'll pull it down when he should not. 

 

While Allen completed 2-of-3 passes against the Texans’ zone for 39 yards, the lack of trust he shows in his arm was most evident on some of the biggest windows he will ever see. On this second-and-11 play, the Bills call a slant/flat combo, referred to more specifically as a D-slant. The offensive line cuts the edge rushers so that the throwing lane is clear and Benjamin, running the three-step slant, throttles down in the window, but Allen decides not to throw it. Luckily, he is still able to gain yardage. Allen seems to trust his legs more than his arm and that is a habit he needs to break.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The problem is that sometimes they are open, but he'll pull it down when he should not. 

If you are looking for him to make the right choice 90-100% of the time right now, under these circumstances, you are right, he does. But he also pulls it down too early and runs for TDs, the one TD in the game, against the Titans.

[ctk232]

4 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Wish I could see it.  But I don't.

Right now, I'm seeing Josh Allen struggling to complete anything beyond the line of scrimmage with even the slightest level of consistency.  I can't say that for any of the other quarterbacks starting - Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen.  Those guys are struggling, but at the very least, they seem to have the basics down.

 

The most common play we've seen from Brian Daboll's offense is the bootleg/swing pass to the right side of the formation.  It's probably the simplest play for a quarterback, because he's not forced to read the defense and not throwing down field.  But even on these plays, Allen is about 50-50 on throwing the ball too low for his receiver. 

 

Anything where Allen is required to actually scan the defense has been a total disaster.  He hesitates, holds the ball too long, then panics and either drifts backwards or bails to his right side.  To me, this is an area where he is actually regressing from the preseason.  He's feeling phantom pressure, and trusting his legs instead of his protection.  We are only seeing maybe once per week where he steps up into the pocket and delivers a decisive throw.  And even then, most of these have been off-target.  For all the raving about his arm talent, I don't think he's thrown a single catchable deep ball the entire season. 

 

Sure, there are flashes a few times each week.  But they are sporadic and inconsistent.  You can't look at his mechanics and say - "It really looks like the coaches are working with him on his footwork."  It was all over the place in college, and it's still that way 90% of the time.  You should see him making a conscious effort to stay inside the pocket - even when it goes against his instincts.  Instead, it looks like he's hanging his helmet on the Minnesota game and trying even harder to win with his legs.  Compare how long it takes Allen to read the field now, versus how it was in Week 2.  I'm not seeing improvement.

 

Of course, it's way too early to make a judgment on Allen.  Several quarterbacks (Alex Smith, Jared Goff) were absolutely dreadful as rookies, but eventually progressed and became very good.  Hopefully our guy does the same.  But I don't think we need to pretend we are seeing something that we really aren't.

 

 

Completely agree - being objectively critical isn't the same as saying "he isn't the answer." There's a lot that Allen hasn't grasped yet that the other rookies do have despite whatever statistics people may cite.

 

Beyond that, to your point of being coached. It looks like he's been "involved" in offensive discussions, but the coaches are otherwise trying to scheme around him than for him. I don't believe Culley is the guy to shape him into an NFL qb, not in the least - he's had no consistency in development, and while no one should expect things to turn around over night, he should be able to focus on one thing at a time and improve. 

 

I know it was discussed on the board and dismissed early on, but apart from hiring a new QB coach (which we desperately need to), why not give Allen more time with the QB coach he worked with in the off season? Shoot, I'd love to see Romo on our sidelines more than Culley...who knows, maybe he becomes the OC we've wanted all along (not serious, but nice to think about.)

Edited October 16, 2018 by ctk232

[Figster]

 

 

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#Bills OC Brian Daboll says he’s seen improvement from Josh Allen despite what the numbers suggest. #Bills

 

[thurst44]

5 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Your eyeballs need adjustment.  Allen looks lost out there all too often.  By any objective measure he's behind. 

His point is that so are Rosen, Darnold, and Mayfield. It may be a dubious claim, but what are these objective measures? Do you have stats or All-22s that show the other three first round QBs adjusting at a faster rate. My unscientific eye/stats test has it at Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, but that is certainly subject to dispute.

 

Ok, fair enough, I edited this, b/c I do see you have a posting of someone's All--22 analysis, so that's at least something.

Edited October 16, 2018 by thurst44

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

If you think Allen is in the same zip code of the other 3 rookies I don't know what to tell you. His QB rating is a whole 11 points lower than the next worst rookie. That is an astronomical gap. It would be no big deal if we were talking 70 vs 81. But 61 vs 72 is alarming. 

 

Sure the completions percentages are on par with Mayfield and Rosen but so what. He has one bad metric that is on par with those guys? What about ypa, sack rate, TD/INT percentage? Allen is woefully behind in all of those. I'm done with making excuses for players. After 20 some years of futility at the QB position I'm not going to look for excuses to explain why a guy is actually better than his dreadful numbers show.

[Teddy KGB]

39 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The problem is that sometimes they are open, but he'll pull it down when he should not. 

 

 

 

 

Last year you enjoyed this brand of quarterbacking ???

[billykay]

5 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

False! He's truthfully behind the curve of the others as expected.  

You're being extremely nice in your evaluation. Except for his running & athleticism, he simply has not produced. Will that change in time ? Who knows. Personally, I doubt it. If we don't look for a QB in the next draft, it looks like we will be in the market shortly thereafter. His biggest attribute - his strong arm - means squat. His long throws are a zip code away from the receiver. This is what you get when you value size & arm strength over accuracy and the ability to assess the field in 2-3 seconds. We shall see.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

5 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

The team is 2-2 in games in games Allen started and finished.  The team is 0-2 in games he did not start and finish.  Compared with the other rookie QBs his effectiveness in helping his team win games is as good as theirs. 

 

 

Let's be real here. Allen is supported by the 3rd ranked defense in the league. The other guys are supported, or dragged down, by defenses ranked 28th, 22nd and 19th.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I agree with his "remaining areas" for improvement. NFL open and Pre-Snap/Reading a Defense. 

 

However, he is averaging 151 ypg passing across five starts and hasn't thrown a TD pass in (3) straight starts.

 

Now that defenses have some tape on him, can Allen overcome those scheme changes? 

 

 

In terms of progress, it would be one thing if there was a 40 yard throw, followed by an ill-advised interception, followed by a 27 yard laser over the middle, followed by a poor throw on an out route. That would correctable rookie mistakes, but using the arm talent to create chances. 

 

But what I am seeing more of is a stagnation in the offense. Nothing happens. What you don't want to have happen is the familiar discussion of is Allen being told to not throw the ball or is he simply unwilling to pull the trigger or he can't see "NFL open". This discussion has been had ad nauseam by Bills fans with Trent, EJ and Tyrod. 

 

I want Allen to keep playing as soon as he's ready. Derek Anderson starting is a waste of time and the Bills are just going to have to put Allen back in anyways. 

 

We saw this in 2014. Had the Bills known at the end of 2013 that EJ was not the answer, they could have had Carr or Bridgewater and been on their way. Instead, they traded a #1 and a #4 for a WR to help EJ, and that experiment lasted 4 games, with EJ never playing meaningful snaps again in the league. 

 

Until QB is solved, we have to keep taking one. The QB room is going to be cleaned out anyways because Anderson is not coming back next year and neither should Nate Peterman.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

6 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

I see a lot of buyer’s remorse going on with Josh right now and I really don’t get it. I don’t see the other rookie QBs lighting it up yet and Josh was the 3rd one taken. Had he not been injured, I think we beat the Texans and he moves to 3-2 as a starter with 3 wins against playoff caliber teams.

 

People say they aren’t seeing improvements and I couldn’t disagree more. The deer in the headlights look is fading and the game appears to be slowing down. I’m seeing far fewer ill-advised decisions. He is still a work in progress (like all the other rookie QBs), but nothing so far makes me think he has any less ability to be successful than the other guys.

 

I think the biggest remaining areas for improvement for Josh are:

1. Properly gauging what is NFL “open”. If he can get a grip on that this year, wait until he gets targets who can separate.

2. Presnap recognition. He is a really smart kid and I have confidence he will excel in this area over time. This is the first time he is seeing the exotic defenses of the NFL. 

 

Biggest reasons for optimism over QBs of the drought era:

1. The arm talent - Throw on any EJ or Fitzpatrick game and you’ll see head scratching zip code accuracy issues.

2. Use of the middle of the field - We rarely saw this with Losman and Tyrod. It completely handicaps an offense when you refuse to use half of the field.

3. Willingness to throw downfield - Trent Edwards was the worst at this. Defenses will play close to the LoS like they are moving the fielders in against the kid who sucks at kickball. You have to keep the defense honest.

4. Signs of pocket presence - We’ve gone through many QBs who had no feel for the pocket and would just take off at the first sign of pressure. Allen has shown flashes of poise, keeping his eyes downfield, stepping up in the pocket and making a throw. He still has a ways to go, but I didn’t even see flashes of this from past QBs.

 

When you throw 23 passes a game, you generally won’t hit 300 yards. To do so would require ~13 ypa which is a phenomenal number. He is developing before our eyes, but it seems like a lot of folks can’t see the forest through the trees. My eyes tell me he is already on par with where Tyrod was a year ago and he is just getting started.

 

I'm so glad this wasn't a statistical argument manipulated in Allen's favor. Nice analysis.

[Kelly the Dog]

13 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I agree with his "remaining areas" for improvement. NFL open and Pre-Snap/Reading a Defense. 

 

However, he is averaging 151 ypg passing across five starts and hasn't thrown a TD pass in (3) straight starts.

 

Now that defenses have some tape on him, can Allen overcome those scheme changes? 

 

 

In terms of progress, it would be one thing if there was a 40 yard throw, followed by an ill-advised interception, followed by a 27 yard laser over the middle, followed by a poor throw on an out route. That would correctable rookie mistakes, but using the arm talent to create chances. 

 

But what I am seeing more of is a stagnation in the offense. Nothing happens. What you don't want to have happen is the familiar discussion of is Allen being told to not throw the ball or is he simply unwilling to pull the trigger or he can't see "NFL open". This discussion has been had ad nauseam by Bills fans with Trent, EJ and Tyrod. 

 

I want Allen to keep playing as soon as he's ready. Derek Anderson starting is a waste of time and the Bills are just going to have to put Allen back in anyways. 

 

We saw this in 2014. Had the Bills known at the end of 2013 that EJ was not the answer, they could have had Carr or Bridgewater and been on their way. Instead, they traded a #1 and a #4 for a WR to help EJ, and that experiment lasted 4 games, with EJ never playing meaningful snaps again in the league. 

 

Until QB is solved, we have to keep taking one. The QB room is going to be cleaned out anyways because Anderson is not coming back next year and neither should Nate Peterman.

He threw two great 40 yard passes in a little more than a half on Sunday. Was not his fault a FB lined up as a WR on the opposite side of the field which had nothing to do with the play was not lined up correctly.

[oldmanfan]

14 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I agree with his "remaining areas" for improvement. NFL open and Pre-Snap/Reading a Defense. 

 

However, he is averaging 151 ypg passing across five starts and hasn't thrown a TD pass in (3) straight starts.

 

Now that defenses have some tape on him, can Allen overcome those scheme changes? 

 

 

In terms of progress, it would be one thing if there was a 40 yard throw, followed by an ill-advised interception, followed by a 27 yard laser over the middle, followed by a poor throw on an out route. That would correctable rookie mistakes, but using the arm talent to create chances. 

 

But what I am seeing more of is a stagnation in the offense. Nothing happens. What you don't want to have happen is the familiar discussion of is Allen being told to not throw the ball or is he simply unwilling to pull the trigger or he can't see "NFL open". This discussion has been had ad nauseam by Bills fans with Trent, EJ and Tyrod. 

 

I want Allen to keep playing as soon as he's ready. Derek Anderson starting is a waste of time and the Bills are just going to have to put Allen back in anyways. 

 

We saw this in 2014. Had the Bills known at the end of 2013 that EJ was not the answer, they could have had Carr or Bridgewater and been on their way. Instead, they traded a #1 and a #4 for a WR to help EJ, and that experiment lasted 4 games, with EJ never playing meaningful snaps again in the league. 

 

Until QB is solved, we have to keep taking one. The QB room is going to be cleaned out anyways because Anderson is not coming back next year and neither should Nate Peterman.

They could have Carr next year if they want.  He was the golden boy, and now looks like he's on the way out of Oakland.

 

Give Allen time. 

[Fred Clause]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It's far too early in his career to make a call on what he'll ultimately be.  I just want him to gain as much experience as possible this season with the team building up the supporting cast around him next year. 

Exactly, that’s why everybody screaming bust and unhappy about the record is being ignorant. First off this year was never going t be about competing now, 50+ million reasons saw to that. It was to be about developing Allen and rebuilding the defense. I imagine The offense was not supposed to be this bad, but if they were looking for better picks next year, maybe it was.  I think McCarron not being what they thought he was is the biggest thing that went wrong with the plan, this caused Allen to be inserted much sooner than expected. Unfortunately the BS hit to his elbow may slow his progression this year, it may also give him a chance to take a breath, step back an d review film, and study what has been happening so far. If it’s just a few weeks, it will be ok.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Fred Clause

[Jaywrizzo]

6 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

I see a lot of buyer’s remorse going on with Josh right now and I really don’t get it. I don’t see the other rookie QBs lighting it up yet and Josh was the 3rd one taken. Had he not been injured, I think we beat the Texans and he moves to 3-2 as a starter with 3 wins against playoff caliber teams.

 

People say they aren’t seeing improvements and I couldn’t disagree more. The deer in the headlights look is fading and the game appears to be slowing down. I’m seeing far fewer ill-advised decisions. He is still a work in progress (like all the other rookie QBs), but nothing so far makes me think he has any less ability to be successful than the other guys.

 

I think the biggest remaining areas for improvement for Josh are:

1. Properly gauging what is NFL “open”. If he can get a grip on that this year, wait until he gets targets who can separate.

2. Presnap recognition. He is a really smart kid and I have confidence he will excel in this area over time. This is the first time he is seeing the exotic defenses of the NFL. 

 

Biggest reasons for optimism over QBs of the drought era:

1. The arm talent - Throw on any EJ or Fitzpatrick game and you’ll see head scratching zip code accuracy issues.

2. Use of the middle of the field - We rarely saw this with Losman and Tyrod. It completely handicaps an offense when you refuse to use half of the field.

3. Willingness to throw downfield - Trent Edwards was the worst at this. Defenses will play close to the LoS like they are moving the fielders in against the kid who sucks at kickball. You have to keep the defense honest.

4. Signs of pocket presence - We’ve gone through many QBs who had no feel for the pocket and would just take off at the first sign of pressure. Allen has shown flashes of poise, keeping his eyes downfield, stepping up in the pocket and making a throw. He still has a ways to go, but I didn’t even see flashes of this from past QBs.

 

When you throw 23 passes a game, you generally won’t hit 300 yards. To do so would require ~13 ypa which is a phenomenal number. He is developing before our eyes, but it seems like a lot of folks can’t see the forest through the trees. My eyes tell me he is already on par with where Tyrod was a year ago and he is just getting started.

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