Josh Allen looks on par with this year’s other rookie QBs

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Right.  I think he's starting to figure things out more.  For all young QBs the game has to slow down for them.  

 

I haven't seen much evidence to support this.  The injury comes at an unfortunate time because he needs as many reps as possible to gain valuable experience. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

7 minutes ago, tumaro02 said:

Well the big knock on him was accuracy and Mayfield has been anointed as the most accurate passer. Truth is YTD Mayfield is 55.6%, Rosen is 55.6%, and Allen is 54.0%. Based on that alone I would group them together and when you look at their QB rating that is also close (and pretty identical if you throw in Allen's 3 TDs via legs. By that I would say your eyes are bloodshot and you are looking for negativity to spew your trash.

I am willing to venture a guess that Allen's receivers have had more drops too. 

On the other hand ESPN's possibly dubious QBR rating, which tries to account for some of the factors you mention, does put Allen behind the other QBs at this point. 

[Johnnycage46]

1 hour ago, 17 Josh Allen said:

great post I totally agree. I love a lot of what I see In Josh. A couple of games sitting down will do him good with his Injury. Most of the bitching is coming from the Rosen Fan Boys and WGR crew who simply can’t hate Josh Allen enough. Especially Mike Shoope and Jeremy White. 

 

I very much want to agree with you both and I hope I am wrong but Allen seems to be struggling to get rid of the ball and seems to make poor decisions.  Both thing I hope he outgrows but it is concerning.

[PearlHowardman]

16 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

...right now, while he is a rookie, they are rookie mistakes.

 

Carried over from his college playing days.  In another word:  Trend!  And trends seldom change.  

[PlayoffsPlease]

2 hours ago, PearlHowardman said:

 

Carried over from his college playing days.  In another word:  Trend!  And trends seldom change.  

Do you not understand what the word "rookie" means?

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I haven't seen much evidence to support this.  The injury comes at an unfortunate time because he needs as many reps as possible to gain valuable experience. 

I evaluated every throw he made in the first hal and posted it yesterday.  See if you agree with my analysis.

2 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

 Do you not understand what the word "rookie" means?

Curious, isn't it?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I evaluated every throw he made in the first hal and posted it yesterday.  See if you agree with my analysis.

 

It's not just about every throw he makes. It's also some he's not making when he doesn't keep his eyes downfield and instead takes off to soon

[oldmanfan]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It's not just about every throw he makes. It's also some he's not making when he doesn't keep his eyes downfield and instead takes off to soon

Again I evaluated every pass play from the first half yesterday, those where he not only threw but when he ran.  Take a look at it.  Instead of just throwing out cliché-like statements take a look at how I broke it down and then we can discuss actual vs. theoreticals.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Again I evaluated every pass play from the first half yesterday, those where he not only threw but when he ran.  Take a look at it.  Instead of just throwing out cliché-like statements take a look at how I broke it down and then we can discuss actual vs. theoreticals.

 

You act as if I didn't watch the game. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[oldmanfan]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You act as if I didn't watch the game. 

Why can't you simply just look at my post, and then we can discuss?

[DCOrange]

He's definitely behind the other 1st round QBs right now, but that's okay. He was always supposed to be behind them his rookie year. Beane didn't draft him for how he thought he'd play as a rookie; he drafted him for where he thinks he can get to in a year or two.

[Scorp83]

1 hour ago, Troll Toll said:

I see a lot of buyer’s remorse going on with Josh right now and I really don’t get it. I don’t see the other rookie QBs lighting it up yet and Josh was the 3rd one taken. Had he not been injured, I think we beat the Texans and he moves to 3-2 as a starter with 3 wins against playoff caliber teams.

 

People say they aren’t seeing improvements and I couldn’t disagree more. The deer in the headlights look is fading and the game appears to be slowing down. I’m seeing far fewer ill-advised decisions. He is still a work in progress (like all the other rookie QBs), but nothing so far makes me think he has any less ability to be successful than the other guys.

 

I think the biggest remaining areas for improvement for Josh are:

1. Properly gauging what is NFL “open”. If he can get a grip on that this year, wait until he gets targets who can separate.

2. Presnap recognition. He is a really smart kid and I have confidence he will excel in this area over time. This is the first time he is seeing the exotic defenses of the NFL. 

 

Biggest reasons for optimism over QBs of the drought era:

1. The arm talent - Throw on any EJ or Fitzpatrick game and you’ll see head scratching zip code accuracy issues.

2. Use of the middle of the field - We rarely saw this with Losman and Tyrod. It completely handicaps an offense when you refuse to use half of the field.

3. Willingness to throw downfield - Trent Edwards was the worst at this. Defenses will play close to the LoS like they are moving the fielders in against the kid who sucks at kickball. You have to keep the defense honest.

4. Signs of pocket presence - We’ve gone through many QBs who had no feel for the pocket and would just take off at the first sign of pressure. Allen has shown flashes of poise, keeping his eyes downfield, stepping up in the pocket and making a throw. He still has a ways to go, but I didn’t even see flashes of this from past QBs.

 

When you throw 23 passes a game, you generally won’t hit 300 yards. To do so would require ~13 ypa which is a phenomenal number. He is developing before our eyes, but it seems like a lot of folks can’t see the forest through the trees. My eyes tell me he is already on par with where Tyrod was a year ago and he is just getting started.

I disagree with this whole post... he's shell shocked, escapes the pocket way too early,  he has 166 passing the last 2 weeks combined, he doesn't throw to open WR's... granted the WR's are crap... but Zay is open almost all the time... 

 

He's so Raw & is behind the QB's in the 1st Rd... except Jackson & that's only because he has Flacco in front of him. PPF has Allen rated as the worst QB under pressure. 

 

This is why I didnt want to draft him, because he's a project. McBeane is a joke right now, because they didn't have a plan after drafting the QB that needs the most work. 

 

They fell in love with Allen personality, more so then his readiness to play in this league. 

 

To sit here & try to compare Allen to the rest of this QB class is laughable in itself. 

 

He's not ready for this league, & I think McBeane just figured that out... which is why he's "Week to Week" & Allen wants a second opinion...

 

Ughhh take the hint kid, your bench... i feel like McBeane just didn't want to hurt the kid feelings. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

18 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It's not just about every throw he makes. It's also some he's not making when he doesn't keep his eyes downfield and instead takes off to soon

You should consider asking the Bills to give you a tryout as a QB or QB coach.  

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

You should consider asking the Bills to give you a tryout as a QB or QB coach.  

 

What does this have to do with where he is and what he needs to be a long term successful NFL QB?  You should consider a more meaningful response. 

[MAJBobby]

2 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

I see a lot of buyer’s remorse going on with Josh right now and I really don’t get it. I don’t see the other rookie QBs lighting it up yet and Josh was the 3rd one taken. Had he not been injured, I think we beat the Texans and he moves to 3-2 as a starter with 3 wins against playoff caliber teams.

 

People say they aren’t seeing improvements and I couldn’t disagree more. The deer in the headlights look is fading and the game appears to be slowing down. I’m seeing far fewer ill-advised decisions. He is still a work in progress (like all the other rookie QBs), but nothing so far makes me think he has any less ability to be successful than the other guys.

 

I think the biggest remaining areas for improvement for Josh are:

1. Properly gauging what is NFL “open”. If he can get a grip on that this year, wait until he gets targets who can separate.

2. Presnap recognition. He is a really smart kid and I have confidence he will excel in this area over time. This is the first time he is seeing the exotic defenses of the NFL. 

 

Biggest reasons for optimism over QBs of the drought era:

1. The arm talent - Throw on any EJ or Fitzpatrick game and you’ll see head scratching zip code accuracy issues.

2. Use of the middle of the field - We rarely saw this with Losman and Tyrod. It completely handicaps an offense when you refuse to use half of the field.

3. Willingness to throw downfield - Trent Edwards was the worst at this. Defenses will play close to the LoS like they are moving the fielders in against the kid who sucks at kickball. You have to keep the defense honest.

4. Signs of pocket presence - We’ve gone through many QBs who had no feel for the pocket and would just take off at the first sign of pressure. Allen has shown flashes of poise, keeping his eyes downfield, stepping up in the pocket and making a throw. He still has a ways to go, but I didn’t even see flashes of this from past QBs.

 

When you throw 23 passes a game, you generally won’t hit 300 yards. To do so would require ~13 ypa which is a phenomenal number. He is developing before our eyes, but it seems like a lot of folks can’t see the forest through the trees. My eyes tell me he is already on par with where Tyrod was a year ago and he is just getting started.

 

I dont like to dog Rookie QBs so I wont. However I also do not see what you are seeing. 

 

Josh Allen is clearly behind the other 4 top end QBs in terms of his play and development 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, tumaro02 said:

Well the big knock on him was accuracy and Mayfield has been anointed as the most accurate passer. Truth is YTD Mayfield is 55.6%, Rosen is 55.6%, and Allen is 54.0%. Based on that alone I would group them together and when you look at their QB rating that is also close (and pretty identical if you throw in Allen's 3 TDs via legs. By that I would say your eyes are bloodshot and you are looking for negativity to spew your trash.

As most rational people would think.  

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Problem with Josh Allen is his college tape is mostly terrible. So what are we hoping to see? This perfect piece of clay learn how to play QB at the highest level when he couldn't do it at lower levels? 

 

Fingers crossed. 

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

36 minutes ago, tumaro02 said:

You have absolutely have NO  idea who I am or what I do or what I watch or what I know. Your response is exactly what trash talking trolls do. You knock others down with your self given superiority complex in order to feel good about yourself. But a troll is a troll and  you are the definition  of one.

FYI     There is a useful Report function for those who make unwarranted insults.   

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Problem with Josh Allen is his college tape is mostly terrible. So what are we hoping to see? This perfect piece of clay learn how to play QB at the highest level when he couldn't do it at lower levels? 

 

Fingers crossed. 

 

No one should be shocked that he has a steep learning curve or take it as an affront when it's stated he's behind the other rookie QBs who were drafted in the top ten.  

[Matt_In_NH]

It is too early for all of them but Darnold and Mayfield are ahead of Allen clearly.  Not sure on Rosen.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

30 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

It's not just about every throw he makes. It's also some he's not making when he doesn't keep his eyes downfield and instead takes off to soon

Again I evaluated every pass play from the first half yesterday, those where he not only threw but when he ran.  Take a look at it.  Instead of just throwing out cliché-like statements take a look at how I broke it down and then we can discuss actual vs. theoreticals.

Sounds eerily familiar to TT.     An 8 year vet  4th seasons as a starter.  

 

One is a rookie (who we hope can improve),  the other a guy who people still think can improve.  

 

[PlayoffsPlease]

16 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

What does this have to do with where he is and what he needs to be a long term successful NFL QB?  You should consider a more meaningful response. 

How about this.  Your analysis of Josh Allen seems wrong in almost every regard.  You have developed a personal opinion (which is your right) and that personal opinion  destroys all objectivity regarding his performance, which in turn destroys your credibility.   Hope that clears things up for you. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by PlayoffsPlease

[Rebel101]

2 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

I see a lot of buyer’s remorse going on with Josh right now and I really don’t get it. I don’t see the other rookie QBs lighting it up yet and Josh was the 3rd one taken. Had he not been injured, I think we beat the Texans and he moves to 3-2 as a starter with 3 wins against playoff caliber teams.

 

People say they aren’t seeing improvements and I couldn’t disagree more. The deer in the headlights look is fading and the game appears to be slowing down. I’m seeing far fewer ill-advised decisions. He is still a work in progress (like all the other rookie QBs), but nothing so far makes me think he has any less ability to be successful than the other guys.

 

I think the biggest remaining areas for improvement for Josh are:

1. Properly gauging what is NFL “open”. If he can get a grip on that this year, wait until he gets targets who can separate.

2. Presnap recognition. He is a really smart kid and I have confidence he will excel in this area over time. This is the first time he is seeing the exotic defenses of the NFL. 

 

Biggest reasons for optimism over QBs of the drought era:

1. The arm talent - Throw on any EJ or Fitzpatrick game and you’ll see head scratching zip code accuracy issues.

2. Use of the middle of the field - We rarely saw this with Losman and Tyrod. It completely handicaps an offense when you refuse to use half of the field.

3. Willingness to throw downfield - Trent Edwards was the worst at this. Defenses will play close to the LoS like they are moving the fielders in against the kid who sucks at kickball. You have to keep the defense honest.

4. Signs of pocket presence - We’ve gone through many QBs who had no feel for the pocket and would just take off at the first sign of pressure. Allen has shown flashes of poise, keeping his eyes downfield, stepping up in the pocket and making a throw. He still has a ways to go, but I didn’t even see flashes of this from past QBs.

 

When you throw 23 passes a game, you generally won’t hit 300 yards. To do so would require ~13 ypa which is a phenomenal number. He is developing before our eyes, but it seems like a lot of folks can’t see the forest through the trees. My eyes tell me he is already on par with where Tyrod was a year ago and he is just getting started.

I mean Darnold and Mayfield have both put up better numbers and have both looked substantially better then Allen in every game they have played....have they looked perfect, no of course not, but they have looked better. I’m not saying throw in the towel on Allen and I do believe if he didn’t get hurt we win that game. I’m still alittle confused as to why we started throwing more with the lead and peterman in but whatever Daboll is starting to prove to me he is incapable of understanding how to beat an NFL defense. And I do think Allen has improved slightly and hopefully he will continue to grow but he has a ways to go but I do disagree with what he needs to fix. He needs to fix his footwork which will improve his accuracy, he needs to stay in the pocket longer, keep his eyes down field, he needs to read defenses better post snap, and learn how to exploit certain coverages.Daboll needs to begin getting the offense to the line sooner so presnap he can give Allen the audible and give him less to think about. But to say Allen darnold and mayfield are all equal as this point is silly Allen has been clearly the weaker of the 3 

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

How about this.  Your analysis of Josh Allen seems wrong in almost every regard.  You have developed a personal opinion (which is your right) and that personal opinion has destroys all objectivity regarding his performance, which in turn destroys your credibility.   Hope that clears things up for you. 

 

How so?  Where is your evidence based on his actual performance on the field? Easy to make a declarative statement with nothing to back it up.  I'll be waiting. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[drf1835]

Prior to the draft, Josh was advertised as the least ready of all the rookie qbs. That still appears evident as he holds on to the ball the longest. According to espn, he releases the ball after 3.15 seconds, worst in the nfl. So, whether he is hesitant because of bad habit in trusting his strong arm too much to make up the difference, or because right now he processes or reads things slower, or as he is thinking too much, or with a desire to make the best or most perfect play, or something else, I am not sure.

 

Regardless, I feel Josh is likely just that type of qb that takes a year or two at most to blossom. He is tough, with great attitude and work ethic, and seems smart, and he has a strong arm and can run, we know. Of course with less nfl experience,  a below average oline and recievers, he likely feels more pressure or hesitancy. Things will slow down and he will gain more confidence, the more he plays and finds successes on the field, snd the more comfort with his teammates. 

 

The way I look at it, he has played against lots of blitzes, good defenses and did not crumble. He has been through the worst. Things should improve, if the coaches soon let him rip it, and do not keep handcuffing him.

[MAJBobby]

42 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

I am willing to venture a guess that Allen's receivers have had more drops too. 

On the other hand ESPN's possibly dubious QBR rating, which tries to account for some of the factors you mention, does put Allen behind the other QBs at this point. 

 

You would be wrong on the Drops. 

 

Cle and Az have more drops than Bills and Jets have one less drop than Bills. 

 

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=232&type=Receiving

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

I think he's #4 just a bit behind Rosen. Mayfield is already a field general. Jets are putting up 30+ a game with no true offensive stars, Rosen has been a hair better than Allen in moving the chains and accuracy. I'm ok with Josh for now because of his arm. By this time next year, I expect him to be making the throws that Mahomes is making. That's his upside. His downside is Glennon or Osweiller. Brock is just turning the corner now after being demoted. 

 

I truly think the Bills messed this up bad by not bringing in Teddy B and/or McCarron and letting Peterman go. How his name is still on the roster today melts my brain a little.

[PlayoffsPlease]

2 minutes ago, drf1835 said:

Prior to the draft, Josh was advertised as the least ready of all the rookie qbs. That still appears evident as he holds on to the ball the longest. According to espn, he releases the ball after 3.15 seconds, worst in the nfl. So, whether he is hesitant because of bad habit in trusting his strong arm too much to make up the difference, or because right now he processes or reads things slower, or as he is thinking too much, or with a desire to make the best or most perfect play, or something else, I am not sure.

 

Regardless, I feel Josh is likely just that type of qb that takes a year or two at most to blossom. He is tough, with great attitude and work ethic, and seems smart, and he has a strong arm and can run, we know. Of course with less nfl experience,  a below average oline and recievers, he likely feels more pressure or hesitancy. Things will slow down and he will gain more confidence, the more he plays and finds successes on the field, snd the more comfort with his teammates. 

 

The way I look at it, he has played against lots of blitzes, good defenses and did not crumble. He has been through the worst. Things should improve, if the coaches soon let him rip it, and do not keep handcuffing him.

It is also possible, that Allen's first read gets open far less often than any other QBs first read in the NFL.  I am not claiming this is the case.  But given my perception that the receivers are truly awful, it seems possible.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

No one should be shocked that he has a steep learning curve or take it as an affront when it's stated he's behind the other rookie QBs who were drafted in the top ten.  

I would like to see the Bills build an offense around his athleticism. Fans don't want to hear that after Tyrod, but Allen is never going to process fast enough to make the throws top pocket passers make. 

[LFC24]

8 minutes ago, mattynh said:

It is too early for all of them but Darnold and Mayfield are ahead of Allen clearly.  Not sure on Rosen.

 

Give Rosen 2-3 more weeks and he will make us regret not picking him. 

 

Arizona fans the other day were ecstatic that we got Allen instead of them they are in love with Rosen and the future of that team. and we are here wishing Allen would sit out the rest of the year for his own good. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, TheTruthHurts said:

I would like to see the Bills build an offense around his athleticism. Fans don't want to hear that after Tyrod, but Allen is never going to process fast enough to make the throws top pocket passers make. 

 

I'm hoping that the game slows down for him after this year to allow him to improve in all aspects where he's currently deficient.  I agree that they certainly should take advantage of his athletic gifts as a key component of the offense. 

[Fred Clause]

1 hour ago, Epstein's Mother said:

The thing that has worried me the most so far with Allen is his lack of accuracy on short passes.  That being said his throws on crossing routes have been mostly very accurate and a few have been amazing.  I'd like to see him throw a deep ball within 5 yards of a receiver but I haven't seen too many if any close calls on deep balls.

Most of the deep balls they have been having him make have gone to Benjerman, who is never open and is always blanketed by two players. Most would’ve ended up interceptions as Benjamin never fights for the ball.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, The Bills Blog said:

How did I know that 26 was going to be in here trying to take over this post with Allen hate? Seriously, guy, come on.

 

There's that ridiculous word "hate" when it comes to honest assessment of a Bills' QB. I used to hear the same foolishness regarding Peterman.   Sad. 

[thebandit27]

I don't know if he looks on par with this year's other rookies, but I know that he's very similar to the rookie performance of the top QB picked in each of the last 2 drafts:

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

You would be wrong on the Drops. 

 

Cle and Az have more drops than Bills and Jets have one less drop than Bills. 

 

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=232&type=Receiving

wait so our guys don't drop the most balls?   

 

who'd have thunk it?    

 

[thebandit27]

I mean, read this review of Goff's rookie season:

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/1/10/14212140/la-rams-qb-jared-goff-rookie-season-recap-scouting-report

 

It reads like a word-for-word write up of Allen through 6 games.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

I don't know if he looks on par with this year's other rookies, but I know that he's very similar to the rookie performance of the top QB picked in each of the last 2 drafts:

 

 

thanks for sharing that again 

 

[Jobot]

Most of us see him for what he is... a very raw undeveloped rookie talent.  A very small minority of fans maybe is hitting the panic button.  Maybe it just seems that group is large because they end up posting such 'hot takes'...

 

He needs to improve, but it's week 7... and he's got about 16 more games to convince us that he's the guy.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

I mean, read this review of Goff's rookie season:

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/1/10/14212140/la-rams-qb-jared-goff-rookie-season-recap-scouting-report

 

It reads like a word-for-word write up of Allen through 6 games.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

I mean, read this review of Goff's rookie season:

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2017/1/10/14212140/la-rams-qb-jared-goff-rookie-season-recap-scouting-report

 

It reads like a word-for-word write up of Allen through 6 games.

 

Which is exactly why you take where he is right now as a snapshot assessment instead of a final verdict.