IDBillzFan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 42 minutes ago, Tim Tindale said: Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford were both dumpster fires their rookie years with numbers that look very similar, if not worse, to what Allen is putting up. In fact, I remember thinking there was no way Goff would develop into a decent QB because he had such a poor pocket presence in year 1. Drew Brees’ numbers were still really weak in year 3 with the Chargers (57 pct comp pct, 11 TD, 15 INT, 67 QBR). He didn’t break out until his 4th year. Here is the NFL.com link to the stats of Rookie QB’s by year. There is little discernible correlation between rookie and long term success. Based on their numbers, RGIII, Mike Glennon, and Zach Mettenberger would have looked like potential Top 15 QB’s in the NFL for a long time... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&experience=0&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Go i think history would show that a team has to be willing to invest the time with a QB - certainly beyond one year - to come to any real conclusions. At the very least, rookie numbers don’t tell us much of anything. This is a thoughtful, well-written post that suggests you are familiar with the idea of time and pressure to create a diamond. There will be none of that here. Be miserable or depart! 37 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: Yet the 49'ers believe in Jimmy Garoppolo. Your logic and intelligence is not welcome here. Be miserable or depart! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 This message board is comical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, Jeetz1231 said: This message board is comical. You know what's the most comical? The very people who are miserably envious of what Beathard did tonight in GB would be pissing on his front yard if, as a Bills QB, he threw that pressure-soaked pick to give the Pack the ball back with 90 seconds left in a tie game.Then they'd shake it off and head over to the coaches' houses for not calling a better play to counter the pressure. Then they'd go to Pegula's house to piss in his yard just for good measure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Full moon tonight folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Success said: Is this really a thread? Everything goes. That’s all I can really say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, LABillzFan said: You know what's the most comical? The very people who are miserably envious of what Beathard did tonight in GB would be pissing on his front yard if, as a Bills QB, he threw that pressure-soaked pick to give the Pack the ball back with 90 seconds left in a tie game.Then they'd shake it off and head over to the coaches' houses for not calling a better play to counter the pressure. Then they'd go to Pegula's house to piss in his yard just for good measure. You just summed up the fanbase perfectly. almost everyone KNEW this was going to be a rough year (5-7 wins) and when it's going exactly how everyone thought it would before the season started people start freaking out. Everyone KNEW JA was a project and after 4 games of not throwing for 300+ and making some rookie mistakes he is the worst QB and the GM and coach need to go. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: You know what's the most comical? The very people who are miserably envious of what Beathard did tonight in GB would be pissing on his front yard if, as a Bills QB, he threw that pressure-soaked pick to give the Pack the ball back with 90 seconds left in a tie game.Then they'd shake it off and head over to the coaches' houses for not calling a better play to counter the pressure. Then they'd go to Pegula's house to piss in his yard just for good measure. Pining over Beathard...the depths must be plumbed! Downward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jeetz1231 said: You just summed up the fanbase perfectly. almost everyone KNEW this was going to be a rough year (5-7 wins) and when it's going exactly how everyone thought it would before the season started people start freaking out. Everyone KNEW JA was a project and after 4 games of not throwing for 300+ and making some rookie mistakes he is the worst QB and the GM and coach need to go. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jeetz1231 said: You just summed up the fanbase perfectly. almost everyone KNEW this was going to be a rough year (5-7 wins) and when it's going exactly how everyone thought it would before the season started people start freaking out. Everyone KNEW JA was a project and after 4 games of not throwing for 300+ and making some rookie mistakes he is the worst QB and the GM and coach need to go. And don't forget the classic "Can't believe we even wanted this team to stay in Buffalo" chorus. It's hard to hear over the "I knew JA would be a bust!" chorus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 #OCLivesMatter Daboll took this job while it had a vacancy at QB. There is no freaking way we hired the best person for the job.....and that's because no sane coach would want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFC24 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, cgg716 said: It’s like people don’t understand coaches exists. Play designs, schemes. Give Shanahan Allen’s mobility and Arm strength he would be salivating. The game is all schemes, have an elite scheme and these soft rules and production is easy, even with minimal talent so basically what your saying is this franchise has no hope with Mcdermott and his coaching staff here I mean you are right, but Allen has looked pretty damn terrible so far and nothing Bills fans can say changes that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgg716 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, LFC24 said: so basically what your saying is this franchise has no hope with Mcdermott and his coaching staff here I mean you are right, but Allen has looked pretty damn terrible so far and nothing Bills fans can say changes that. I like McDermott but defensive head coaches are a dying breed. Even proven winners like Tomlin and Harbaugh are on hot seats. Because innovation on offense and the rules have changed the NFL. McDermott went backwards by hiring Daboll, a guy who coordinated an offense that had trouble scoring against even softer college D. So after next season McDermott will likely be replaced by a young offensive minded coach, well a competent organization would do this, but the bills may not. We just have to hope that isn’t too late for Allen, whom I am nowhere close to writing off like others in the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessYaDigg Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Josh Allen has more wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) This board gets worse by the minute. Its getting real close to checking out for the season and coming back for FA and the draft. The sanity of this board is at an all time low. Edited October 16, 2018 by Alphadawg7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Clyde Smith said: He has Goodwin, who do we have? we had Goodwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Process Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 7 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: Check his career game log: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BeatC.00/gamelog/ Only one time has this kid been under 200 yards passing in a game. Looks like a star in the making tonight on MNF. Meanwhile, Josh Allen is regularly failing to break 100 yards in a game. Beathard looked competent as a rookie last season with a group of no-name receivers, too. Only 3 more career starts. Allen needs to get really good, really quickly. Regularly failing? Wow....talk about impatience.....that's like drinking 5 slim fast drinks and expecting to lose 5 pounds..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 7 hours ago, batmanfreek said: Of course. Has nothing to do with the team that is surrounding him or coaching. It's all QB talent. Just like Mahomes. They would both flourish here. ? 9ers were playoff contenders before Jimmy G went down. And it wasn't ALL because of him. It was the combination of couching, QB AND the pieces around him. We don't have that here. So before we get into the "Finger of shame to 1BD for not drafting this kid!", that kid and most others would SUCK here. Mahomes might not be throwing at a historical pace here in Buffalo. But instead of 350 & 4 TDs every game, is it a stretch to think that he'd be good enough to get 235 & 2 every game -- just on talent alone? 235 & 2 would have easily gotten you a win last Sunday. I know I'd be ok with 235 yds & 2 TDs in a game from a Bills QB at this point. The gap between Allen & other young QBs like Mahomes & Beathard last night is basically a canyon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, BuffaloSkills said: Allen struggles to read defenses, holds the ball and then looks to run. he certainly doesn't look like a QB you take top 10 He hesitates in the huddle, barking it out, the first step back from the snap it takes time I guess Edited October 16, 2018 by row_33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 9 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: I wonder what Shanahan could do with Allen. Or if he would even think it was worth the time. Do the Bills have anyone on staff that can identify a good NFL QB prospect ? Joseph Zucker -BLEACHER REPORT Oct. 5, 2018 Kyle Shanahan's Genius on Display with Beathard's Impressive Performance Nobody really doubted how good of an offensive coach Kyle Shanahan was before Monday night. His work with Beathard is another reminder of how much a good head coach can elevate his team's performance. Since replacing Jimmy Garoppolo as San Francisco's starting quarterback, Beathard has thrown for 889 yards and six touchdowns in three games. Beathard is ultimately the one who has to stand in the pocket and make the necessary throws, so his success wasn't solely down to Shanahan's scheming. But Shanahan helped set his players up well by knowing exactly how to attack the Packers defense. San Francisco made what had been a solid secondary look pedestrian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 9 hours ago, jrober38 said: Beathard looks great. He's got minimal talent but he knows how to play the game. Lol, played at division one school. And you have his talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 You know the QB bar is low when fans are pining for another teams 3rd round.... Im not even gonna bother...didnt like the pick...i understood it tho....were jus gonna have to ride it out with JA but damn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 5 hours ago, LABillzFan said: You know what's the most comical? The very people who are miserably envious of what Beathard did tonight in GB would be pissing on his front yard if, as a Bills QB, he threw that pressure-soaked pick to give the Pack the ball back with 90 seconds left in a tie game.Then they'd shake it off and head over to the coaches' houses for not calling a better play to counter the pressure. Then they'd go to Pegula's house to piss in his yard just for good measure. Nope. Not at all. I'd be fine with a rookie/2nd year QB who puts up 250 & 2 TDs in a shootout with an all-time great QB and throws a late INT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, twoandfourteen said: Nope. Not at all. I'd be fine with a rookie/2nd year QB who puts up 250 & 2 TDs in a shootout with an all-time great QB and throws a late INT. No you wouldn't. That's crap. You and many others here would be screaming about the pick. Admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Mark Vader said: Yet the 49'ers believe in Jimmy Garoppolo. Which should show you just how far behind the Bills actually are. The 49ers have a young QB they drafted in the 3rd round that is currently miles ahead of where the Bills 7th overall pick is -- and the 49ers still made a move to get even better at the position. 7 hours ago, Jeetz1231 said: You just summed up the fanbase perfectly. almost everyone KNEW this was going to be a rough year (5-7 wins) and when it's going exactly how everyone thought it would before the season started people start freaking out. Everyone KNEW JA was a project and after 4 games of not throwing for 300+ and making some rookie mistakes he is the worst QB and the GM and coach need to go. For Allen, it's 4 games of 513 total yards passing and 1 TD. For the GM & coach, it's their abject mismanagement of the most important position in professional sports. You're a fool if you think this reaction is based solely on CJ Beathard's performance. 2 hours ago, The Process said: Regularly failing? Wow....talk about impatience.....that's like drinking 5 slim fast drinks and expecting to lose 5 pounds..... 3 of his 6 appearances have been under 100 yards passing. I would say that qualifies as "regularly". You are arguing semantics. You obviously don't have a legitimate point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: No you wouldn't. That's crap. You and many others here would be screaming about the pick. Admit it. Nope. I wouldn't. I would expect a rookie in his 8th start to make a rookie mistake late. It would suck, but there were plenty of other great plays that he did make to walk away with optimism for the future. With the Bills, there are very, very few plays which give me a sense of optimism -- and far, far more plays which are evidence that this project is trending towards failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: Which should show you just how far behind the Bills actually are. The 49ers have a young QB they drafted in the 3rd round that is currently miles ahead of where the Bills 7th overall pick is -- and the 49ers still made a move to get even better at the position. For Allen, it's 4 games of 513 total yards passing and 1 TD. For the GM & coach, it's their abject mismanagement of the most important position in professional sports. You're a fool if you think this reaction is based solely on CJ Beathard's performance. 3 of his 6 appearances have been under 100 yards passing. I would say that qualifies as "regularly". You are arguing semantics. You obviously don't have a legitimate point. Well the title of the post cites CJ Bethards performance so how exactly am I foolish for thinking this post wasn't based on his performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: Nope. I wouldn't. I would expect a rookie in his 8th start to make a rookie mistake late. It would suck, but there were plenty of other great plays that he did make to walk away with optimism for the future. With the Bills, there are very, very few plays which give me a sense of optimism -- and far, far more plays which are evidence that this project is trending towards failure. Look at my post from yesterday. I looked at every throw Allen made in the first half. He is making progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 CJ wasn't part of the process, ok. Josh Allen and 80 passing yards a game is the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, Jeetz1231 said: Well the title of the post cites CJ Bethards performance so how exactly am I foolish for thinking this post wasn't based on his performance? It is -- but also within the context of Josh Allen's lack of performance and the mismanagement of the position. I would deserve to be called an idiot if I created this post and Josh Allen had two or three games here where he was in command of the offense -- making a couple of big throws, maybe even producing 200 passing yards in a single game. People are relying on the "it takes time" excuse for Allen. I agree -- but I also think that it's important to track where he is in relation to other young QBs. A 7th overall pick shouldn't be this far behind a 3rd round backup. The Bills have a historically bad passing offense in a league where 200 yards is practically given to you due to the new rules favoring offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Hix Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Look at my post from yesterday. I looked at every throw Allen made in the first half. He is making progress. What about the throws he didn't make? There were numerous times Allen had wide open targets and tucked the ball to run, go check out Cover 1. Allen also struggled to stay in clean pockets, I can think of two plays where he had to just step with the protection and instead panicked and ran into sacks. I'd love to know what progress you saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said: What about the throws he didn't make? There were numerous times Allen had wide open targets and tucked the ball to run, go check out Cover 1. Allen also struggled to stay in clean pockets, I can think of two plays where he had to just step with the protection and instead panicked and ran into sacks. I'd love to know what progress you saw. Look at what I wrote then. And the claim there were numerous times he had wide open receivers is invalid. He is progressing. He made some mistakes. That's what rookie Qbs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 10 hours ago, Success said: These threads will last - let’s get everyone in record. Who would do a straight-up trade, right now? I would in a heartbeat Daboll for Shanahan Our O-line for their O-line Benjamin for Goodwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Smith Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 hours ago, nucci said: we had Goodwin Yeah when we had QBs that couldn’t get him the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadonkadonk Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Wonder what this board would have said the day after the Rob Johnson trade??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: It is -- but also within the context of Josh Allen's lack of performance and the mismanagement of the position. I would deserve to be called an idiot if I created this post and Josh Allen had two or three games here where he was in command of the offense -- making a couple of big throws, maybe even producing 200 passing yards in a single game. People are relying on the "it takes time" excuse for Allen. I agree -- but I also think that it's important to track where he is in relation to other young QBs. A 7th overall pick shouldn't be this far behind a 3rd round backup. The Bills have a historically bad passing offense in a league where 200 yards is practically given to you due to the new rules favoring offense. The situations are so completely different that your comparison makes absolutely no sense. But here are a few additional facts for you: - CJ Beathard is 1/8 in games he has started, including 1/5 last year and 0/3 this year. Funny how they win with Garrappolo and not Beathard. - His completion % last year was 54.9% with 4 TDs and 6 INTs; sounds like a bit of a rough start, no? - His numbers are better this year - 6TDs and 5 INTs and completion % of 64%. Gee, maybe a full year in the league helped him some. Maybe his WRs are too for that matter. Still, that TD/INT ration is going to lead to losses. - Still can't win, but does throw for yards, which is of course is the most important thing in evaluating young QBs. - CJ Beathard is on his way to hitting his ceiling as a decent career backup, although he is not there yet. Stats can tell any story you want to make up to fit the stats. Your comparison is BS, because the situations and players are not comparable. Next year, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: Look at his stats from his rookie year. That is what really is troubling. CJB was competent out of the box. Meanwhile, JA has a lot of trouble executing a basic NFL passing play. Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen -- all of them have at least exhibited the ability to produce respectable passing production at this early stage in their careers. 200 yards seems impossible right now for Josh Allen. People forget dropped passes and schemes too easily... Also in shootout type of games, offenses get the ball more than in ball control type games And I wonder for my sanity why I even bother. You don't judge a player like Allen in 5 games. Edit: watching the game last night, I was something shocked at how wide some receivers were opened. On both teams. For the Cheatriots too on SNF too. And I recall slow guys like O'Reilly being wide open at times and other receivers too. Why? SCHEMES, the overall playcalling. Edited October 16, 2018 by Jerome007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 11 hours ago, Jauronimo said: I looked up the stats today. Allen through 6 weeks (a little over 5 games of action) has very comparable numbers to Goff's 7 or so games his rookie year. It gives me hope. Goff looked flat out scared to paly his rookie season. Allen doesn't look good but he doesn't look like hes scared for his life. Just hesitant. What's the difference between Goff and Josh Allen though. One looked great in college in a real conference. The other played in a garbage conference and looked awful. One is teamed up with the best offensive mind in a generation and one is teamed up with a good defensive coach. One is accurate. The other is anything but. I know we're fans and we're hoping beyond hope but let's not set ourselves up for anymore pain than we have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, oldmanfan said: No you wouldn't. That's crap. You and many others here would be screaming about the pick. Admit it. Why is anyone even talking about the pick Beathard threw?? It came on 3d and 3 from midfield and after the int the Packers had the ball at their own 7 yard line. It was the equivalent of an excellent punt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 13 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: I wonder what Shanahan could do with Allen. Or if he would even think it was worth the time. Do the Bills have anyone on staff that can identify a good NFL QB prospect ? Just this guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, Jerome007 said: Also in shootout type of games, offenses get the ball more than in ball control type games every time two QBs in the top half of the NFL meet it's a shootout type of game, that's the way the NFL has been heading for 40 years now. last year's SB, which most considered a masterpiece, gave us one decent defensive stop the entire game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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